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The XIII games got better with each installment I think. Though XIII-2 fixed a lot of problems with XIII only to introduce completely new problems in the process which has been mentioned before on this page. LR was actually really fun, stupid story aside so it's not been a total wash.
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Oct 21, 2014 12:12
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People choose to wear belts only for how they make their outfit look all of time. Including for one pieces. They are worn as accessories in those cases. I get that JRPG outfits are over the top and that Nomura loves his belts, but arguing about the functionality of accessories is pretty silly.
Xavier434 fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 13:32
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Mr. Fortitude posted:The XIII games got better with each installment I think. Lightning Returns was a really fun game but none of the entries in the XIII trilogy actually felt like a proper Final Fantasy game, and I know the series as a whole is known for experimenting with formulas, but 13 and 13-2 felt more like, dare I say it, a high budget Compile Heart JRPG and Lightning Returns felt very similar to Nier in its tone and style. I'm hoping XV returns the series to its psone/PS2 heyday. Recent trailers garner a lot more confidence in the final product being great whereas the trailers for XIII were kind of massively underwhelming
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Oct 21, 2014 15:15
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The trailers for FF13 was great until it was a complete farce and the "battle scenes" were just cutscenes.
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Oct 21, 2014 15:17
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Polite Tim posted:Lightning Returns felt very similar to Nier in its tone and style. What
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Oct 21, 2014 15:58
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Tae posted:The trailers for FF13 was great until it was a complete farce and the "battle scenes" were just cutscenes. Yeah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7uwtFpC4iI To be fair to them, quite a few trailers will use pre-rendered cutscenes to demonstrate the sort of gameplay things they're going for, in lieu of actual gameplay footage. It's deceptive, sure, but it happens. It's just with XIII, they really had no unified concept of what the gameplay was going to involve until they started working on the demo. Polite Tim posted:Lightning Returns felt very similar to Nier in its tone and style. Nope. They have the post apocalyptic thing going on, yeah, but they're at pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to tone and style. It also gives me a feeble excuse to post this: 
Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 16:03
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I think the 'allies' section of both of those is the same.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:04
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SSNeoman posted:Only in the most general terms. But come on. "Kid in his mid-to-late teens with shorts and gloves" likely covers a very wide range of protagonists. Dude is reaching with that pic. Nah. Sora definitely looks like a "cartoon" version of Sion. Which is fine, whatever. They also look really stupid. Did I mention that I hate Nomura's character designs when he goes into full retard overdesign mode in addition to his usual terrible supermodel designs? The dude should channel his "burning hatred" into something besides the games he works on, maybe.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:04
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Krad posted:What It is a game about how the entire world is hosed, everyone knows it is hosed and they're just gradually waiting to die. There are some similarities but Nier is better written.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:09
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ImpAtom posted:It is a game about how the entire world is hosed, everyone knows it is hosed and they're just gradually waiting to die. There are some similarities but Nier is better written. Also Nier has Laura Bailey cursing like a sailor, and that's always wonderful.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:12
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Pesky Splinter posted:Nope. They have the post apocalyptic thing going on, yeah, but they're at pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to tone and style. It also gives me a feeble excuse to post this: What was the original context that made someone sit down and draw a comparison table between these two basically unrelated games?
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Oct 21, 2014 16:15
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ImpAtom posted:It is a game about how the entire world is hosed, everyone knows it is hosed and they're just gradually waiting to die. There are some similarities but Nier is better written. That's just the basic premise, though. LR is about you fighting gods and whatever to earn a happy ending, and Nier is about how you personally destroy any hope whatsoever that things could turn out okay.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:17
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Tempo 119 posted:What was the original context that made someone sit down and draw a comparison table between these two basically unrelated games? [e]: Here we are, it was just in regards to what games were coming out for this year, and why Drakengard 3 might be more talked about than XIII for how weird it is and stuff. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/the-x-button/2014-01-15 [e2]: I have no idea. VVV Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 16:18
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quote:I suspect that more people will talk about Drakengard 3 than they will Lightning Returns. How was this ever going to happen when there were less people who knew about Drakengard 3 than people who bought Lightning Returns?
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Oct 21, 2014 16:39
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ImpAtom posted:It is a game about how the entire world is hosed, everyone knows it is hosed and they're just gradually waiting to die. There are some similarities but Nier is better written. The tone is completely different and unless I missed something, no one in Nier was waiting for the world to die in like a week. LR is more Majora's Mask in every way than any other game.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:51
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maybe lightning returns is just its own thing
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Oct 21, 2014 16:58
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What is the most useless class in Final Fantasy Tactics and why is it Geomancer? At least Archer has objective range.
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Oct 21, 2014 17:43
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Gologle posted:What is the most useless class in Final Fantasy Tactics and why is it Geomancer? At least Archer has objective range. Geomancers get badass axes and are actually pretty good for a mage to have as a backup ability in case they run out of MP and you don't feel like using Samurai abilities for some reason. I never used an Archer for longer than it took to get Thief unlocked. Also the usefulness of Archers hurts even more when compared to Tactics Ogre where they were pretty much gods.
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Oct 21, 2014 17:56
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But even then Geomancers might as well be useless, because I've tried doing that exact same thing before on a mage. Low double digit damage forever.
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Oct 21, 2014 17:57
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Geomancy's damage is low, but it is free instant AOE damage with a chance of debilitating status effects on top. Geomancers complement that with good physical damage thanks to swords, clothes for PA boosts, and Attack Up for +33% damage. I've done a Geomancer SCC before and they're pretty good, especially when you're firing off 5 elemental attacks at once. They are surprisingly versatile. It might help you to know that geomancy's damage is based on both PA and MA. (PA/2)*MA I believe. Ideally you keep the two about equal for maximum elemental damage.
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Oct 21, 2014 18:13
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It's been a few years since I played FFT (and even longer since I used the skill in any capacity beyond "but Kamaitachi sounds sooooo good") but iirc Geomancy isn't AoE. It's just too hard to get to the tile you want to be on while still being in range of your intended target. Half the time, you'll end up having to settle on Vine Hell instead of Carve Model. A partial solution is to use Teleport (which you should be doing all the time anyway because you can even cheese Eledibs with it), but that still won't change the fact that more often than not, you won't be able to drop the spell you really want to. Geomancy is, like in almost every game it appears in except for FF6, cool in concept but kinda crappy in practice.
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Oct 21, 2014 19:37
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maou shoujo posted:Geomancy's damage is low, but it is free instant AOE damage with a chance of debilitating status effects on top. Geomancers complement that with good physical damage thanks to swords, clothes for PA boosts, and Attack Up for +33% damage. I've done a Geomancer SCC before and they're pretty good, especially when you're firing off 5 elemental attacks at once. They are surprisingly versatile. (PA + 2) * MA / 2 I think the main advantage of Geomancer is that, like you said, they can equip swords and PA-boosting clothes, so they're a good class to put Agrias in when she learns all her Holy Sword skills.
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Oct 21, 2014 19:56
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Gologle posted:But even then Geomancers might as well be useless, because I've tried doing that exact same thing before on a mage. Low double digit damage forever. well the damage formula for Element is ([(PA + 2) / 2] * MA), so you really want to boost both your Physical and Magical Attack to get decent damage out of it. Rune Blade, Genji Glove and the Robe of Lords are the ideal equipment for a Geomancer. . Note, unlike weapons in the striking category and magic, neither Bravery nor Faith is used when calculating Damage dealt via Element. The reason that people think Geomancers suck is they always kit them out as warriors, when their damage is clearly not based purely on pa. Geomancers are mediocre, think of them as mages who can wield a sword rather than warriors and they should serve you well.
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Oct 21, 2014 19:57
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Geomancy is AOE though, it hits a + shaped area. I think Counter Flood gets the AOE too, though there are better reaction commands in a standard playthrough. Vine Hell causes Stop which is almost as good as what Carve Model does, and once you have every skill you can always do at least something on your turn. In an SCC setting Geomancers can get elemental healing with ice brands + ice shields, or with some geomancy if you protect against its status effect. Geo healing can also trigger Counter Flood I think, leading to some silly but effective tactical positioning. Geomancers are underperformers compared to the hyperpowerful things some other classes can do, but they are hardly terrible like say Archer. A Geomancer-only run is really fun.
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Oct 21, 2014 20:08
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One thing that's interesting about the elemental skill is that it has higher theoretical damage than anything else in the game, since PA and MA can go up to 99, while everything else is bound by a constant like weapon attack or spell power.
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Oct 21, 2014 20:10
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Fister Roboto posted:One thing that's interesting about the elemental skill is that it has higher theoretical damage than anything else in the game, since PA and MA can go up to 99, while everything else is bound by a constant like weapon attack or spell power. Yeah, if your someone who grinds stats via deleveling, Geomancer is a great class. Not that I'd recommend using that trick. maou shoujo posted:Geomancers are underperformers compared to the hyperpowerful things some other classes can do, but they are hardly terrible like say Archer. A Geomancer-only run is really fun. And here's the thing, if your doing a playthrough with a bunch of blackmages rocking math-skill, then of course Geomancers are poo poo. But if your just playing through, they are perfectly serviceable.
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Oct 21, 2014 20:14
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Geomancers are good, considering they can easily apply debilitating status effects with great horizontal range and (i think) infinite vertical range (carve model is insanely common and causes petrify aka instant death) and their growths are actually fairly strong in all areas. They have good hp, physical, and magical stats and average speed, making them good as a hybrid class. They also do magic damage with geomancy that IS NOT based on FAITH, meaning you can have a 03 faith source of magic damage. I'd argue an actual garbage class is Archer. The only good thing they have is concentrate (put it on a different class) and bows, and above average speed. Charge is a garbage skillset and probably the worst in the game. If you want a fast class with utility and/or range Thief/Ninja are much better choices. The probable actual worst class to stay in is probably Squire since there are classes that do Squire things much better, or Calculator for having the worst stats in the game (most broken skillset though) Most of this only really matters if you are undergoing SCC or similar challenges or doing the 1.3 hack (which rebalances these classes to not be broken pieces of poo poo both ways)
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Oct 21, 2014 20:38
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Yeah, archers are garbage, not because they're bad by themselves per se, but because anything they can do another class can do better.
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Oct 21, 2014 20:41
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How Rude posted:The probable actual worst class to stay in is probably Squire since there are classes that do Squire things much better, or Calculator for having the worst stats in the game (most broken skillset though) Yeah, but Squire is supposed to suck. With the exception of Ramza, the squire class is designed to be mediocre to FORCE you to explore the job tree. Hell even then, they get decent equips and I would much rather do a SCC with Squires than with Archers. The damage cap on bows you can get without move-find/catch is pretty low I think its either 8 or 10, whereas Squires can get the Rune Blade from shops which has 14 attack, which is a heck of a lot better. Most enemies in the game can rapidly approach you after the first chapter, negating whatever benefit the bows have over swords. edit-There are some exceptions, like some of the places in the Warjilis Dungeon but they are an exception rather than the rule.
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Oct 21, 2014 20:48
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Madmarker posted:Yeah, but Squire is supposed to suck. With the exception of Ramza, the squire class is designed to be mediocre to FORCE you to explore the job tree. Hell even then, they get decent equips and I would much rather do a SCC with Squires than with Archers. The damage cap on bows you can get without move-find/catch is pretty low I think its either 8 or 10, whereas Squires can get the Rune Blade from shops which has 14 attack, which is a heck of a lot better. Most enemies in the game can rapidly approach you after the first chapter, negating whatever benefit the bows have over swords. True. Also classes that can use guns do the whole "apply X effect from a long distance" thing way better, though the damage is garbage. One of my absolute favorite support combinations in the game is a Chemist with Break skill. They automatically equip guns and have throw item, leaving you to have a free support slot and a character that can break armor/weapons from 8 units away when they aren't healing your guys. Guns also have 100% accuracy barring weird stuff like blade grasp. Also I just remembered Drawout exists for faithless magic damage, and a Geomancer with Drawout has a whole lot of tools for destruction at low faith.
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Oct 21, 2014 20:53
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How Rude posted:True. Also classes that can use guns do the whole "apply X effect from a long distance" thing way better, though the damage is garbage. One of my absolute favorite support combinations in the game is a Chemist with Break skill. They automatically equip guns and have throw item, leaving you to have a free support slot and a character that can break armor/weapons from 8 units away when they aren't healing your guys. Guns also have 100% accuracy barring weird stuff like blade grasp. Yeah Chemist's with Break Skills are pretty fun. I'd like to think Mustadio was put in there to show you how busted instant speed, ranged status effects can be. That being said, my favorite class for SCC is Dancer. Yeah you kind of have to fudge it by making Ramza either a Bard or Mime (Bard is less awesome, so its my go to for the challenge), but literally selecting the right combination of dances and then watching screen-wide devastation unfold is hilarious, especially if you fly up to places where the enemy can't hit you effectively.
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Oct 21, 2014 20:59
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Geomancer is actually quite good. They are a "carrier class" because they can use so many skillsets effectively, while making an excellent base class. That's because they have good stats and pretty much the absolute best equipment options in the game (Shields, swords, clothes, robes). Geomancy is also really good if you know the formula and balance your stats (keeping PA even, if possible)- decent damage, great range, AoE, instant; I don't know how many times Geomancy has made Velius much easier by petrifying one or two demons before they can even move.
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Oct 21, 2014 21:12
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Then you guys have had awesome luck with the Geomancer's status effects. I do not believe I have ever landed a single status effect with a Geomancer. Also, do the Geomancer's skills depend on what terrain YOU are, or where the enemy is?
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Oct 21, 2014 21:23
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Schwartzcough posted:Geomancer is actually quite good. They are a "carrier class" because they can use so many skillsets effectively, while making an excellent base class. That's because they have good stats and pretty much the absolute best equipment options in the game (Shields, swords, clothes, robes). Geomancy is also really good if you know the formula and balance your stats (keeping PA even, if possible)- decent damage, great range, AoE, instant; I don't know how many times Geomancy has made Velius much easier by petrifying one or two demons before they can even move. This exactly. You can wear something like dual wield rune blade (+4 ma), thief's hat (+2 speed) or flash hat (+1 speed, + 1 ma), mage robe (+2 ma) and wizard's glove (+2 ma) for a disgusting amount of magic attack bonuses on a fairly strong melee physical attacker. Or instead of dual wield rune blade you can slap on Magic Attack Up and equip an aegis shield for a +3 in your arms slots. One of my favorite weapon types in FFT are the sticks, because they do melee physical damage based off of Magic Attack. A two handed or Attack Up Oracle optimized for magic attack will absolutely wreck face with devestating 500+ damage attacks while also having the magic attack to spam powerful/damaging and high accuracy spells. edit: Gologle posted:Then you guys have had awesome luck with the Geomancer's status effects. I do not believe I have ever landed a single status effect with a Geomancer. Also, do the Geomancer's skills depend on what terrain YOU are, or where the enemy is? It depends on where the Geomancer is standing. Each hit from Elemental has a 25% chance of inflicting the status effect, which isn't very high but keep in mind it is instant and hits up to five units, unlike most status effect skills like Talk Skill and Yin/Yang magic which only effect a single unit or may have fickle vertical tolerance. How Rude fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 21:26
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Pesky Splinter posted:Yeah. That very first trailer was really the only one that was really misleading about the battle system. And it's unfair to compare FFXV to XIII in this regard. It's much more clear at this point what kind of game XV is going to be and they aren't afraid to talk about it. Hell I think they knew what game it was going to be 5 years ago (albeit a lot more KH inspired back then). XIII is really a unique kind of mess. quote:Nope. They have the post apocalyptic thing going on, yeah, but they're at pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to tone and style. It also gives me a feeble excuse to post this: Music...sounds OK? I thought that Lightning Returns had some excellent tracks. LR is also a hundred times better as a game then Drakengard 3 was. I was sort of hyped for Drakengard 3 after beating Nier but nothing about it was all that great. The best thing about it was probably the main character and the music but playing it was a 15 fps nightmare.
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Oct 21, 2014 23:08
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Lightning Returns also had a really awesomely stupid final boss while Drakengard 3 had a plain stupid final boss that made me want to punch a hole through my TV.
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Oct 22, 2014 05:50
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In Drakengard tradition, to be fair. Seeing all this FFT job talk makes me want to do another run through. Such a fun game...
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Oct 22, 2014 06:04
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bloodychill posted:In Drakengard tradition, to be fair. To be doubly fair it was kind of lame that they basically went out of their way to make it "HEY LOOK, REMEMBER THAT OTHER DRAKENGARD GAME?" which is just kind of disappointing and boring.
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Oct 22, 2014 06:10
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Gologle posted:What is the most useless class in Final Fantasy Tactics and why is it Geomancer? At least Archer has objective range. Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of me strategically moving around to petrify/stop some poor bastards. Though all classes are equally worthless before the might of a properly setup Calculator.  TARDISman posted:Geomancers get badass axes and are actually pretty good for a mage to have as a backup ability in case they run out of MP and you don't feel like using Samurai abilities for some reason. I never used an Archer for longer than it took to get Thief unlocked. Also the usefulness of Archers hurts even more when compared to Tactics Ogre where they were pretty much gods. Their extra range in TO was also broken as poo poo compared to FFT. "Hi I'm on a house, I'm gonna hit that rear end in a top hat 10 squares away now and they look like a wizard so they're likely gonna die too." Then you go and unlock gunner and now you have infinite(LoS-based) range and fairly decent damage with the only drawback being that changing to a gunner is a permanent thing and there's only 3(?) guns total in the game.
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Oct 22, 2014 06:11
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To be quite honest, I had way more fun with Drakengard 3. Except for the final boss of D3, gently caress that boss. And the framerate drops. Lightning returns bored me really quickly. combat was okay but I just couldn't get in the story of LR. But yeah it's awesome that's its an homage to D1. It's a shame Drakengard 3 wasn't as good as NIER. I want another game in the Drakengard universe. I hope that if there's a next game. it will be in the vein of NIER.
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Oct 22, 2014 06:15
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