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Slanderer posted:Although, if someone is actually attacking you, calling security seems to take as much time as getting your head caved in by a fire extinguisher. Yeah but it's better to be safe than sorry. If you call security to tell you you're defending yourself it might save you from a single trip to outer space.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 20:33 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 00:49 |
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If you can actually loving restrain yourself, I'm personally cool under the "hands off" policy with physical violence against people who are being annoying, nosy, or obstructive even if not physically harming you, provided that: 1) You don't kill them. 2) You don't leave them hugely incapacitated (blacked out with severe damage, exceedingly drunk or drugged though a little is okay, etc.). 3) You are capable of stringing together a coherent sentence to explain your position should anyone ask. Also, not required but helpful: If you just kicked a guy's rear end and threw him out of Botany because he kept running in trying to dump all the pots out and wreck your hard work and you couldn't stop him with anything short of a quick swipe of a chainsaw, announce that you just had to do that on the radio. Yes, it's technically something Security could bust you for, but when has Security ever responded to anything? Also, while you are under right to defend yourself against any crewman trying to attack or kill you, a Security Officer trying to arrest you is not "trying to kill you" so please don't loving murder them. If you want to toss the po-po on a table and run, that's your own business, just expect that you will be murdered once you refuse to submit to an arrest because frankly if you're going to be a huge pain in the rear end when being lawfully detained you don't deserve the legal protections Security is otherwise obliged to offer to you. Additionally, if you have some crazy-rear end scheme that involves seriously inconveniencing another player, please try to make it non-harmful and non-restrictive as possible and, if you can, try getting them in on your prank. Kidnapping a guy and borging him while he's still KO'd from your fire extinguisher is lame. Kidnapping a guy and offering him the opportunity when he awakens to "become a totally awesome cyborg badass" is a lot nicer. And if he refuses, rough him up a little and toss him out the door. That sound fair to you champing-at-the-bit Robusters General? Sufficient to allow you your mayhem without harshing your buzz?
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 20:34 |
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Nakar posted:If you can actually loving restrain yourself, I'm personally cool under the "hands off" policy with physical violence against people who are being annoying, nosy, or obstructive even if not physically harming you, provided that: That doesn't sound fair or fun at all and all of that you said don't do, should be fine as long as we can explain it. I'm not one of those that has to robust over every stupid thing but I'm tired of seeing red text after dealing with a moron because either the admin wasn't paying attention to the round or feels the need to be super security.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 20:43 |
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If you do end up killing someone at least do it creatively. Set up a trap or something so that their own idiocy kills them.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 20:50 |
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DrMelon posted:If you do end up killing someone at least do it creatively. Set up a trap or something so that their own idiocy kills them. the closest thing to a trap is inviting someone in to a maint tunnel to pummel them senseless
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 20:59 |
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Azuth0667 posted:That doesn't sound fair or fun at all and all of that you said don't do, should be fine as long as we can explain it. I'm not one of those that has to robust over every stupid thing but I'm tired of seeing red text after dealing with a moron because either the admin wasn't paying attention to the round or feels the need to be super security. Every time we ease off a little bit, you seem to be saying "That's not good enough." What exactly is it you want to be able to do? Because it sounds like you're a dick with a vendetta against some admin or other (I don't pretend to know who or what they may have done to you at any point). Do you want us to not care about kidnapping people and tying them to a chair the entire round because of some brilliant idea you had? I mean seriously, explain to me what you should be permitted to do without even facing inquiry from an admin at any time. Is it that onerous that committing a murder might require a one-sentence justification? We're not even asking for that much these days.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 21:04 |
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Banana peels are the perfect non-lethal weapon. The other day the door to the brig was open so I walked in and checked things out. The detective inside tried to blind me with a flash but I had shades, so after laughing at him he shot me. He chased me around the brig shooting for a minute or so until I took the peel from the contraband crate and slipped him up. Then I picked up his gun and farted in his face and the epic battle continued, with both of us trying to make the other slip on the peel. It ended when I hopped on one of the segways and the detective finally opened the door.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 21:09 |
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I felt that the self-defense thing should be clarified a bit because there still are a lot of players who will freak out if a single bad thing happens to their character. Someone shoved them over? OUT THE AIRLOCK WITH 'EM! Someone disarmed them? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! Time to bash in their skull! Is 'don't be a dick' really that horrible of a suggestion? Don't kill people unless you've got a really good reason for it (or it's really funny somehow, but that's pretty risky!) If they complain to us and we ask you why you did it, tell us your reason. We might agree with you, especially if it's obvious that they deserved it. Dr. Cogwerks fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2012 around 21:20 |
| # ? Jun 8, 2012 21:16 |
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is go
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Nakar posted:It sounds to me more like you're a whiny rear end in a top hat who refuses to accept any restrictions whatsoever, no matter how reasonable, and hate the very notion of explaining yourself even when told you will get away with it if you can explain yourself. You also probably need to ease off the "super security" buzzword, it's reaching "shitcurity" levels of disingenuousness. I don't mind restrictions infact there are good restrictions in the game already no bigots/creeps/rping psychopath/mad bomber. I can't believe you quoted my post but still failed to read it, go ahead and read my post again I said if we can explain it we should get away with it. Read my posts again I've said super security in maybe three of them its not a buzz word. I should be able to do anything aside from what I listed above without seeing red text. In your example the tying to a chair if its someone doing something cool like playing super villan or taking hostages against security that's perfectly fine if it's someone doing it without any rhyme or reason simple click the chair and unbuckle that person then cluwne the idiot tying people up for no reason. E: I should add, the AI flouting its laws required admin intervention. As players we don't have many options to solve that problem. Azuth0667 fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2012 around 21:56 |
| # ? Jun 8, 2012 21:38 |
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Dr. Cogwerks posted:
Pookie thanks you for this one.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 21:40 |
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Azuth0667 posted:I don't mind restrictions infact there are good restrictions in the game already no bigots/creeps/rping psychopath/mad bomber. I can't believe you quoted my post but still failed to read it, go ahead and read my post again I said if we can explain it we should get away with it. Read my posts again I've said super security in maybe three of them its not a buzz word. As for the rest, well, what I'd really like to be able to do is just have some kind of karma thing going on, where if somebody is constantly a dick to other people and behaves as you wish to that we'd just accept that if anything bad happens back to them that it's their own drat problem to deal with, but that doesn't really work on the people they'd be victimizing as if we let them complain, the assholes wouldn't be allowed to get away with anything. And people should be allowed to get away with some things. I guess what I'm driving at here is that things like keeping a person kidnapped, even for what you believe to be a hilarious reason*, is taking away the ability of the other person to do anything that they might like to do to have fun for the rest of the round, and you should possess enough human empathy to understand that doing something like that unprovoked makes you a lovely person, whereas getting someone to conspire with you to do something weird or semi-dangerous doesn't have that stigma because they willingly joined in the same fun as you and are participants, rather than victims, in it. The whole "hands off" thing has pretty much been a case of allowing people to ruin other people's fun with the understanding that your fun can then be ruined in turn. But there has to be some limitation here, because gently caress me if rounds aren't constantly lasting 60 minutes and it's pretty loving lame to start a round with some gimmick in mind (say restructuring an area of the station by changing around all the walls) and then immediately find yourself brained with a fire extinguisher and forced to drink Suicider because that's somebody else's idea of a fun time. You weren't hurting anyone, he was, and now you're suffering for it. And we're not even necessarily punishing that anymore. I can't really see why we should abide having even less restriction than that. I suppose we could just quietly take in-game notes about all the lovely things a given complained-about player has done and only decide they merit a ban if they have a long history of bad, unfunny gimmicks and lovely uncreative and pointless murders, but that would require a functional note system that doesn't get erased all the time. I'd actually sort of be for that kind of thing, even. * It's worth noting that the reason is never actually hilarious and everyone who has a gimmick that involves loving up somebody else's round inevitably fails to do anything interesting, useful, or amusing 99% of the time.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 21:52 |
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Azuth0667 posted:E: I should add, the AI flaunting its laws required admin intervention. As players we don't have many options to solve that problem. Unless it was all, "Check me out, you losers. Preventing harm to humans! Booyah!"
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 21:54 |
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Nakar posted:You're the one who can't read, because that was what I said to begin with, and I quoted you and reemphasized the part about you being able to explain yourself. But you seem to take offense to the idea that red text might pop up because an admin is investigating something as admins are basically appointed to do. Azuth0667 posted:That doesn't sound fair or fun at all and all of that you said don't do, should be fine as long as we can explain it. I'm not one of those that has to robust over every stupid thing but I'm tired of seeing red text after dealing with a moron because either the admin wasn't paying attention to the round or feels the need to be super security. Nakar posted:It sounds to me more like you're a whiny rear end in a top hat who refuses to accept any restrictions whatsoever, no matter how reasonable, and hate the very notion of explaining yourself even when told you will get away with it if you can explain yourself. Look at the two bolded parts, I'm pretty sure you didn't read my post. Nakar posted:As for the rest, well, what I'd really like to be able to do is just have some kind of karma thing going on, where if somebody is constantly a dick to other people and behaves as you wish to that we'd just accept that if anything bad happens back to them that it's their own drat problem to deal with, but that doesn't really work on the people they'd be victimizing as if we let them complain, the assholes wouldn't be allowed to get away with anything. And people should be allowed to get away with some things. This is a terrible idea but it can be funny. It's funny if an rear end in a top hat gets cluwned and murdered by the crew. Or perhaps turned into a horrible glowing alien with a centcom report following stating that the alien is dangerous and must be slain. This doesn't mean hold a grudge against people, if you're going to hold a grudge  .Nakar posted:I guess what I'm driving at here is that things like keeping a person kidnapped, even for what you believe to be a hilarious reason*, is taking away the ability of the other person to do anything that they might like to do to have fun for the rest of the round, and you should possess enough human empathy to understand that doing something like that unprovoked makes you a lovely person, whereas getting someone to conspire with you to do something weird or semi-dangerous doesn't have that stigma because they willingly joined in the same fun as you and are participants, rather than victims, in it. Did you seriously just say that doing things in a videogame makes you a terrible person in real life? If you're taking actions someone commits in a videogame and extrapolating it to real life you need a break and possibly serious help. Cooperation in schemes would be nice but part of the fun of the game is the paranoia that you can't trust anyone. Nakar posted:The whole "hands off" thing has pretty much been a case of allowing people to ruin other people's fun with the understanding that your fun can then be ruined in turn. But there has to be some limitation here, because gently caress me if rounds aren't constantly lasting 60 minutes and it's pretty loving lame to start a round with some gimmick in mind (say restructuring an area of the station by changing around all the walls) and then immediately find yourself brained with a fire extinguisher and forced to drink Suicider because that's somebody else's idea of a fun time. You weren't hurting anyone, he was, and now you're suffering for it. And we're not even necessarily punishing that anymore. I can't really see why we should abide having even less restriction than that. That's like saying random events aren't fun because they ruin the round for you. It's just plain stupid, stuff happens dealing with it and what follows are again part of the fun of the game. Especially in that example you provided, call security then get your friends and use those walls you were moving to make a gigantic maze. Put the rear end in a top hat in the maze and when they get out KO them inject them with LSD then put them back in the maze. Since this is a research station time it and call it a learning experiment. You could put Remmy in the maze and compare the times they get.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 22:09 |
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Random events are obviously different from acts of player agency because random events are random. Also, there's almost always fair warning about them. Getting hit by a meteor sucks, but meteor showers are announced so you can react to them and hide. And yes, having a black hole spawn right on top of you and kill you does ruin your round and kind of sucks, but that's a design issue that's really another matter entirely. I'm not saying you should never be allowed to die, I'm saying it gets pretty old pretty quick to be the one constantly dying for other people's fun, and most rear end in a top hat players don't have that experience very often because they view themselves primarily as the predator rather than the prey. But the prey is not really weighted any differently in terms of the game, so I don't see what that order should exist save that some people know the system better. That aside, being able to do absolutely anything to anyone means increased probability to gently caress over at traitor, which doesn't seem like something we should be encouraging if the whole point of Traitor mode is that the traitor has the advantage of doing what people normally can't to accomplish his ends, and full sanction to do so. If everyone's going to just do whatever, we may as well not have round types at all. I mean, I can see the appeal of "Do Whatever The gently caress You Want Day" set to Extended every now and then, but that's not something regular mode play should be allowing. Azuth0667 posted:Did you seriously just say that doing things in a videogame makes you a terrible person in real life? If you're taking actions someone commits in a videogame and extrapolating it to real life you need a break and possibly serious help. Cooperation in schemes would be nice but part of the fun of the game is the paranoia that you can't trust anyone.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 22:15 |
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My griefing philosophy: You can kill people as much as you want as long as they enjoy it, or at least respect how you killed them. If they have a problem with it though, then you need a reason. Nobody would adminhelp you for dosing them with LSD and trapping them in a maze because that's pretty drat funny. Even if they did the admins would probably like it enough not to punish you (and maybe even turn the adminhelper into a monkey). Wantonly beating people to death for no reason or being a poo poo guy and straightjacketing people in beds the entire round is just pissing other players off for no reason. If you're the only one having fun and you're making someone else's round really lovely, that's a net fun loss on the server. Heck, you could even grief the poo poo out of one guy as long as the rest of the station is enjoying it (suicider and glass shame cube in bar, public heckling). SS13 is a social game. You gotta play with other players, not abuse them.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 22:18 |
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I would say that sounds about right. It's not that you can't "grief," it's that going by the absolute dictionary definition of the term and just causing people not to enjoy the game is a dick move. Being a dick to someone who has it coming, or being a dick in a fiendishly clever manner that is fun, that's something else. Leaving somebody in a situation where they'll die if they can't think their way out of a problem is a lot more fun than toolboxing them and throwing them into space. Under the "hands off" policy, you'll probably get away with both, but you probably should only get away with the former.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 22:21 |
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Nakar posted:Random events are obviously different from acts of player agency because random events are random. Also, there's almost always fair warning about them. Getting hit by a meteor sucks, but meteor showers are announced so you can react to them and hide. And yes, having a black hole spawn right on top of you and kill you does ruin your round and kind of sucks, but that's a design issue that's really another matter entirely. Okay I think at this point you don't understand what I'm saying. Random, player, warning or not the event is no different it inconveniences the person and prevents them from doing what they want. Do whatever the hell you want is not the idea here. The idea is to let security do their jobs. Again cluwneing idiots that decide to do low effort murder sprees like bashing everyone with extinguishers is a pretty drat good way to handle things while remaining hands off. Nakar posted:Yes, doing bad things to other people in a videogame makes you kind of a terrible person. It's not Counter-Strike where the explicit rule of the game is to kill the other players, it's not even Checkers where the explicit rule is to win and defeat the other guy. If you aren't a traitor, you haven't been outright told to go gently caress with people, so any decision to actively ruin someone's round means you're being kind of a dick and is a strong indicator that you are a dick in other areas. Video games aren't real I don't understand how you can correlate this to real life. You really shouldn't be an admin or even play video games at all with that thought process.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 22:26 |
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What happened to the whole "quit getting mad at vidya games?" mentality.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 22:33 |
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Azuth0667 posted:
All the characters in the game are other people trying to have fun. If your idea of a good time is purposefully ruining fun of other people makes you a dick, regardless of what media is used to do so.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 22:33 |
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Well great, this got dumb in a real hurry.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 22:40 |
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Azuth0667 posted:
Jesus, you're being a huge dick. I mean, I'm sure that it's mildly annoying to have an admin interrupt your shenanigans, but that really wasn't necessary. Really though, you should consider that the other people playing the game are actually other people. And if you're doing something dickish that you think is funny enough to justify being a dick to someone else, you should be prepared to explain it to an admin.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 22:50 |
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Azuth0667 posted:Okay I think at this point you don't understand what I'm saying. Random, player, warning or not the event is no different it inconveniences the person and prevents them from doing what they want. Do whatever the hell you want is not the idea here. The idea is to let security do their jobs. Again cluwneing idiots that decide to do low effort murder sprees like bashing everyone with extinguishers is a pretty drat good way to handle things while remaining hands off. I think you're making a better case for making random events non-lethal than you are for allowing players more of a berth to be inconveniences to other players. One important thing to keep in mind is that the less intervention on the part of the admins, the less long-term penalties there are for being a shitlord. If you limit punishments to ones that only last until the end of the round (leave it to security, cluwneing, etc) then two things happen: 1) The shitlord is able to get his jollies before the punishment is doled out, and 2) The shitlord is able to repeat this behavior the very next round if they want. This puts the dude on the wrong end of a toolbox at a severe disadvantage, potentially every single round, and promotes shittier playstyles. edit: Maybe a better way of putting it is that the list of activities on the "whitelist" from admin intervention should also match up with the list of activities that are not a problem to happen multiple rounds in a row. Ktarthan fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2012 around 23:09 |
| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:05 |
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^^ I don't have a good solution for handling habitual shitlords yet other than opening a player complaint forum. It's not my favorite idea but there could be the potential for hilarity?Zaldron posted:Jesus, you're being a huge dick. I mean, I'm sure that it's mildly annoying to have an admin interrupt your shenanigans, but that really wasn't necessary. Really though, you should consider that the other people playing the game are actually other people. And if you're doing something dickish that you think is funny enough to justify being a dick to someone else, you should be prepared to explain it to an admin. Azuth0667 posted:That doesn't sound fair or fun at all and all of that you said don't do, should be fine as long as we can explain it. I'm not one of those that has to robust over every stupid thing but I'm tired of seeing red text after dealing with a moron because either the admin wasn't paying attention to the round or feels the need to be super security.  For fucks sake read the bolded part. Since people are missing what I'm trying to say I'll say it again. You can't tell how someone is in real life from a video game so what they do in a video game has no bearing on how they actually are in real life. Hence video games are not real life so don't take them as real life. Azuth0667 fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2012 around 23:10 |
| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:08 |
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Azuth, I know you don't know me but could you please just stop talking? Please? This discussion is going nowhere fast.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:11 |
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CRPG (a mmo mod for mount and blade) had a player complaint forum and it was loving horrible, player complaints are always a bad idea imo, ss13 "culture" is hosed up enough without adding "oh you did/said _____ lemme screenshot that lmao owned"
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:17 |
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Azuth0667 posted:
 That's quite a leap. After reading the rest of your posts, I think you should step back for a while and try to see why everyone else is reacting to your posting like they are. Because you're looking a little loopy.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:21 |
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semper wifi posted:CRPG (a mmo mod for mount and blade) had a player complaint forum and it was loving horrible, player complaints are always a bad idea imo, ss13 "culture" is hosed up enough without adding "oh you did/said _____ lemme screenshot that lmao owned" Like I said it has the potential to be funny but its not that great of an idea.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:22 |
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Azuth0667 posted:For fucks sake read the bolded part. I read those words you wrote, I also read the other words you wrote which didn't agree with those words you wrote. Edit: Whoever put in the saxophones, thank you for making my spacestation 13 experience a little bit more relaxing. Zaldron fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2012 around 23:28 |
| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:22 |
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I am asking permission to subdue Azuth0667's 2D spaceman whenever I see him so I may clone him, grind up the clone, and feed his own clone back to him in hamburger form. That is all I want to do after reading his train wreck of an argument. Honk.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:35 |
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ss13.txt Steve Martian [145.9] says, "Ghosts are telling me "rear end is all that matters"" ASAY Uryvichk: "I can't hear anything over the ducks and saxes"
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:47 |
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Zaldron posted:Edit: Whoa, I gotta get on...
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:51 |
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This person, Azuth0667, right here, needs to stop talking. Perhaps stop playing SS13. Very few posts cause me to muster the energy to type a reply. I like SS13 the way it is now. I don't like the mindset Azuth0667 has. Azuth, my friend, I humbly suggest you eat a warm, nourishing, bowl of dicks and go play some XBOX or something.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:51 |
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Bedshaped posted:Whoa, I gotta get on... It was quite sweet. One of the saxmen saved my life from a syndicate pipe bomb. I'm pretty sure that this round has a pretty decent amount of admin fuckery going on. In related news, the martian stuff looks pretty good. Edit: This is on #3 and the round has been going on for 88 minutes at this point.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 23:56 |
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Mice Everywhere posted:I gibbed a guy someone gave me once and an admin chewed me out so I don't think that's the case. We will never chew you out for gibbing a dead person. Gibbing a living person is really lovely because it's basically permanently removing them for the rest of the round with no recourse (unless they took very rarely taken preventative measures first).
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| # ? Jun 9, 2012 00:18 |
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Jeez, according to those admin guidelines I probably should have been banned quite a few times. Good thing I only really play is when most of you are asleep.  EDIT: Or maybe people just don't adminhelp it because they assume I'm traitor?
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| # ? Jun 9, 2012 01:18 |
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I'll never forget getting myself permabanned on G3 (it was removed after like a year) for flooding the old station with plasma and trying to blame it on the braindead atmos tech next to me. Don't be stupid, guys. Don't be like me.
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| # ? Jun 9, 2012 01:20 |
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Azuth0667 posted:Video games aren't real I don't understand how you can correlate this to real life. You really shouldn't be an admin or even play video games at all with that thought process. Being an unfunny dick to people, even in a video game, makes you an unfunny dick. What's so hard to understand about that? On another note, did anyone else play that UFO round this morning? If so what the hell was up with that round? I pissed off the UFO trying to escape, and then he heat rayed me into critical and I spent the next 45 minutes staring at a black screen unable to die. I thought the round was almost over after I got zapped, but it just kept dragging on until I gave up and went to bed. Just so I'm clear to succumb to your wounds you type:say *succumb or say *suicide right? EDIT: drat. That explains it. It thought it was the UFO somehow preventing me from dying. Thank you very much. Jonny Retro fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2012 around 01:52 |
| # ? Jun 9, 2012 01:37 |
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Jonny Retro posted:Just so I'm clear to succumb to your wounds you type:say *succumb or say *suicide right? They aren't emotes. Just type suicide and succumb.
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| # ? Jun 9, 2012 01:44 |
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Oh god, some of the cyborg fart emotes have me dieing. "Cyborg Rho-89 uploads a fart sound to the nearest computer and blames it"
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| # ? Jun 9, 2012 01:52 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 00:49 |
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Killing people is boring and cliche. It's far more entertaining to help people kill themselves, with full disclosure of what you are doing. You can stuff the cake with poison, but you have to make sure whoever is eating it knows that it is poisoned. You can leave the russian revolver lying around, and it's not your fault if somebody blows their own drat head off. It's been a while, but people are surprisingly suicidal. They will gladly eat a random pill they found on the floor labeled "HORRIBLE POISON DO NOT EAT", entirely of their own free will.
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| # ? Jun 9, 2012 01:54 |
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