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Rondette posted:'Dark Summit' is great too, especially Lincoln Hall's story. This passage gave me chills first time I read it- suffering with exhaustion, Hall is left on a ridge after attempts to move him were unsuccessful. He is alone on the mountain, waiting to die as the sun sets...- I'm curious as to how he survived the night. His Wikipedia page doesn't go into a whole lot of detail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Hall_(climber) Apparently he died 2 months ago, too.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 17:32 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 16:56 |
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I hope they never shut down Everest so the mountain will slowly become entirely covered with garbage and frozen corpses. It will look like the cover to a black metal album.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 17:36 |
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Everest and that whole region is such a beautiful place. Hate to see it cluttered with garbage and dead people every year. As far as money goes, limiting Nepal's amount of permits or whatever isn't going to change anything. China still has access to the other side.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 17:53 |
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I Might Be Adam posted:Everest and that whole region is such a beautiful place. Hate to see it cluttered with garbage and dead people every year. China did manage to get both sides shut down for when the Olympic torch was hoisted up there though, so money and politics would still do it if there is enough pressure. I'd prefer it if they banned or limited the tourist companies and only gave permits to unguided experienced mountaineers, not that Nepal has any reason to do this.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 18:00 |
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Wagoneer posted:I'm curious as to how he survived the night. His Wikipedia page doesn't go into a whole lot of detail: The book goes into some sort of detail of how he practised Buddist meditation and the art of removing himself from the scenario he was in. It also mentions that his body probably wouldn't have made it if his mind knew the real situation and to keep thinking about his family and friends and things he loves to keep him alive. Whether or not that means anything or if it was just dumb luck is up to you. Sad to hear that the cancer got him though. Not quite as rock and roll as watching the sun set on Everest.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 18:02 |
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Into Thin Air is the kind of book that, when you're finished, forces you hold two completely contradictory thoughts in your head: 1) "Climbing Mount Everest is nothing but a death wish, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever." and 2) "I want to climb Mount Everest." Cartoon Man posted:All these deaths are horrible, but I am curious what is the success to death ratio?
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| # ? May 23, 2012 18:33 |
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jackpot posted:Gear and medical advances (and, I'm sure, the shared knowledge of all those who've done it before) have helped increase this substantially, but for a long time the ratio was about 4 to 1: of all the people who had ever attempted to summit Everest, a quarter had died. It's not at all "safe" now, but it's a lot better than it used to be. Can you go into some examples about the gear and medical advances? Also, forgive me for being  , but why can't a helicopter get somebody off the mountain at any elevation? Winds?
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| # ? May 23, 2012 18:40 |
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Cartoon Man posted:Also, forgive me for being I'm not a physics guy, but I think it's because the medium (air) is too thin, so that the rotor blades can't push enough air downwards to push the helicopter upwards.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 18:44 |
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Cartoon Man posted:Can you go into some examples about the gear and medical advances? The air is too thin to provide sufficient lift. Edit: The most helpful gear advancement has actually been laptops and satellite internet. Being able to get real time weather updates has really helped as far as people not setting out right before a huge storm and dying. Omnicarus fucked around with this message at May 23, 2012 around 18:46 |
| # ? May 23, 2012 18:44 |
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Jack's Flow posted:That guy sitting frozen, but alive, next to Green Boots? What a horrible, horrible fate. Agreed. I just can't imagine that.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 18:45 |
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Omnicarus posted:The air is too thin to provide sufficient lift. I knew I should have paid attention more in school, I feel stupid for not realizing that.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 18:46 |
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Also, much like the climbers, the engines struggle to get enough oxygen to run properly, and like you said high winds make it dangerous when trying to land or just retain any kind of stability.
Galler fucked around with this message at May 23, 2012 around 18:50 |
| # ? May 23, 2012 18:48 |
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Vintimus Prime posted:Agreed. I just can't imagine that. I can't really either, but at the same time, I imagine it's a bit more comforting for the guy to die next to a famous "figure" like Green Boots as opposed to just dropping in the middle of no where and being left for dead. I know this sounds creepy as gently caress, but I'd probably be talking to that dead body at that point. Something along the lines of "We sure gave it hell, didn't we.."
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| # ? May 23, 2012 19:05 |
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Cartoon Man posted:Also, forgive me for being Other people have said this, but here are some better facts on it. Mt. Everest is at 29,029 ft. elevation. Highest elevation ever achieved by a helicopter is 40,814 ft. which while it's over 10,000ft. higher than Everest you have to read what happened on that record flight. wikipedia posted:On June 21, 1972, Jean Boulet of France piloted an Aérospatiale Lama helicopter to an absolute altitude record of 12,442 meters (40,814 ft). At the extreme altitude the engine flamed out and the helicopter had to be (safely) landed via another record breaker — the longest-ever autorotation in history. The helicopter had been stripped of all unnecessary equipment prior to the flight to minimize its weight and the pilot was breathing supplemental oxygen. So while it might be possible for a helicopter to rescue people from Everest if it was purpose built for just that function, it would be dangerous as all hell for the pilot, crew, and anyone in the area where it will eventually crash which will happen a lot.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 19:16 |
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Cartoon Man posted:Can you go into some examples about the gear and medical advances? As others have said, the thinness of the air makes it very difficult to engineer a helicopter capable of flying that high and it takes real skill to pilot a helicopter capable of it. But they do have helicopters capable of landing on the summit. They even do rescues by helicopter up there now, which blows my mind. That said, it's still a very dangerous and expensive rescue, and if you find yourself without the money to pay for the rescue or you are stranded up there in anything other than the absolute best conditions and below the death zone, the helicopters aren't coming for you. Sadly, this leads to people taking risks they shouldn't, because they think there's plenty of safety nets and technology and they don't understand that above the death zone on Everest, you really are one bad decision away from certain death. einTier fucked around with this message at May 23, 2012 around 19:28 |
| # ? May 23, 2012 19:23 |
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A Winner is Jew posted:Other people have said this, but here are some better facts on it. You've just painted a picture in my head of something far deadlier than Everest. A mountain littered with garbage, oxygen tanks, frozen bodies and a dozen heaps of twisted burnt metal from specialty helicopters. Just imagine climbing the mountain with altitude sickness dodging crashing helicopters. I can only hope that in the distant future, a place like that could be the playing field for some future sport played by cyber-limb enhanced humans.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 19:25 |
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jackpot posted:Into Thin Air is the kind of book that, when you're finished, forces you hold two completely contradictory thoughts in your head: Into Thin Air, as well as most of the other accounts I've read make me want to see Everest, and the mountains around it. They always seem much more enthusiastic about the beauty of the landscape from the bottom when they're not oxygen starved zombies. If I remember correctly the the first paragraph of the book starts with him at the summit. He says something like "One foot in Nepal, The other in China. I'm on top of the world, and I don't give a poo poo."
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| # ? May 23, 2012 19:32 |
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I don't understand how someone can get away with letting their kid climb Everest or sail around the world. E: Oops, meant to also include loving advocating they do it. GreenCard78 fucked around with this message at May 23, 2012 around 19:53 |
| # ? May 23, 2012 19:35 |
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A Winner is Jew posted:Other people have said this, but here are some better facts on it. On that note - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HckQcNNoJc&hd=1 A helicopter has actually landed on the summit of Everest. However, considering the nature of the terrain and the difficulty of getting up there, helicopter rescues are a long ways off.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 19:38 |
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Cartoon Man posted:Can you go into some examples about the gear and medical advances?  I just like reading about it on occasion.But I think Omnicarus put it best: information probably saves more lives than anything these days. The ability to see and communicate real-time weather developments is a hell of an advantage. Great article below about Rob Hall (one of the '96 deaths) and Robert Falcon Scott, leader of (what he hoped was) the first expedition to reach the South Pole. But in fact, when they got there they found out another team beat them to it by a month (guess they didn't get Roald Amundsen's tweet). They all died, with Scott writing in his diary until the end. http://adventureblog.nationalgeogra...tt-to-rob-hall/ quote:Had we lived, I should have had a tale to tell of the hardihood, endurance, and courage of my companions which would have stirred the heart of every Englishman. These rough notes and our dead bodies must tell the tale...
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| # ? May 23, 2012 20:15 |
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What I've taken away from all the Everest media is that I'd like to hike to the foot of Everest. It would be a challange, no doubt, but it wouldn't make my lungs or brain explode. It looks mind-blowingly awe inspiring, and just to look at those colossal mountains would be enough for my puny human body.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 20:22 |
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Last years thread really got me into reading everything I could get my hands on about everest and other mountain climbing books. It was also responsible for a few weeks of ever-ever-ever-rest-rest-rest getting stuck in my head. It also got me into looking into trekking tours in that area (gently caress climbing those mountains). Surprisingly those are really not that expensive. I didn't make it for this years season and settled for a trip to india instead. Maybe next year...
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| # ? May 23, 2012 20:40 |
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You can always tell the people who've read a lot of mountaineering books. We all say the same thing. "I'd love to go to the foot of Everest. Climb it? gently caress no, I'm not stupid."
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| # ? May 23, 2012 20:41 |
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kith_groupie posted:What I've taken away from all the Everest media is that I'd like to hike to the foot of Everest. It would be a challange, no doubt, but it wouldn't make my lungs or brain explode. It looks mind-blowingly awe inspiring, and just to look at those colossal mountains would be enough for my puny human body. Did a trip through Tibet and Everest Base Camp in 2009. One of the coolest things I've ever done in my life. It's awe-inspiring and even though we just stayed a night in a Guesthouse near basecamp, the area itself takes a toll on you. You can definitely tell the difference in atmosphere. It's still something like 17,000 feet above sea level. Our view from our room:  Another thing that nobody mentions is night time there. No light pollution plus altitude just makes the star filled sky dizzying.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 20:54 |
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The woman (Shriya Shah-Klorfine) who died this weekend was from Toronto so there's been a great deal in the news here about her. Evidently, she'd wanted to climb Everest since she was 7, and finally got the money together this year to do it (she did this by mortgaging her house to get a $100,000 loan). She trained for the mountain by doing rock climbing, karate, and walking around Dufferin street with a 45 pound backpack for a few months, apparently having been told that she'd get taught everything she needs to know when she arrived at Base Camp. Everest would have been the first mountain she ever climbed.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 20:58 |
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I Might Be Adam posted:Did a trip through Tibet and Everest Base Camp in 2009. One of the coolest things I've ever done in my life. It's awe-inspiring and even though we just stayed a night in a Guesthouse near basecamp, the area itself takes a toll on you. You can definitely tell the difference in atmosphere. It's still something like 17,000 feet above sea level. If I may be so bold as to ask about money, how much did it end up costing you when all was said and done? My boyfriend and his parents love hiking and maybe it's something we could plan.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 20:58 |
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XakEp posted:A helicopter has actually landed on the summit of Everest. However, considering the nature of the terrain and the difficulty of getting up there, helicopter rescues are a long ways off. With the way the robotics field is going, I'd think that rescue robots would be the way to go. A robot that borrows elements from Dante and Big Dog could climb and rappel, administer oxygen etc, and carry climbers (and bodies) down the mountain without endangering other humans. Also it would be way easier and safer to deploy a robot via helicopter (for altitudes the helicopter could reach) than a human team. Into Thin Air was terrifying and I found myself wondering how they let such inexperienced people climb that mountain. My dad and sister climbed Mt Shasta in California (a bit over 14,000 feet) and they trained/studied for ages beforehand. And people still die climbing mountains like Shasta. There should be a requirement that you have successfully climbed multiple other serious mountains and pass a physical before climbing Everest. But I guess that would cut into these outfitters' profits. edit: quote:Everest would have been the first mountain she ever climbed. If my life goal was to climb Everest, I'd make a huge effort to climb mountains all the time to make sure I was in super shape and really good at it and experienced before tackling Everest. Authentic You fucked around with this message at May 23, 2012 around 21:05 |
| # ? May 23, 2012 20:59 |
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I'm a bit confused. Why would climbers still be dizzy/get altitude sickness if they have bottled oxygen?
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| # ? May 23, 2012 21:00 |
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olylifter posted:The woman (Shriya Shah-Klorfine) who died this weekend was from Toronto so there's been a great deal in the news here about her. I really can not understand people who would do that. It's like running a marathon after you've just started jogging and haven't ran a mile in your life, it would kill you, and everest is far worst than that. There really needs to be some restrictions on who can attempt it because it's just tragic when people lose their lives like that. They should atleast be forced to read a book written by a survivor or something.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 21:01 |
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NoneSuch posted:I really can not understand people who would do that. It's like running a marathon after you've just started jogging and haven't ran a mile in your life, it would kill you, and everest is far worst than that. There really needs to be some restrictions on who can attempt it because it's just tragic when people lose their lives like that. I don't get that either, but what's also bonkers is that they signed up with companies that know that and still agree to schlep them up Murder Mountain. That's got to be a huge liability. I know there are waivers and stuff you sign, but still, can't be good for business when their clients turn into grim little reminders of man's arrogance. Doesn't inspire confidence, you know?
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| # ? May 23, 2012 21:12 |
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Farecoal posted:I'm a bit confused. Why would climbers still be dizzy/get altitude sickness if they have bottled oxygen? AFAIK even at base camp you're way way above sea level and doing anything is tiring, your body slows down as there is less oxygen around to keep the blood moving. Canisters will only last a few hours and you have to stay at base camp for weeks sometimes. They would need a hell of a lot of canisters, 24/7.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 21:13 |
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olylifter posted:The woman (Shriya Shah-Klorfine) who died this weekend was from Toronto so there's been a great deal in the news here about her. This was monumentally stupid on her part. I'm sorry that she died but Learning to Climb while climbing Mount Everest is like learning to fire a gun for the first time in a war zone. If nothing else, common sense alone should tell someone that that isn't a good idea. That said it isn't entirely her fault. There is an abundance of climbing
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| # ? May 23, 2012 21:18 |
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She used 9 bottles? How many was she supposed to have gone through?
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| # ? May 23, 2012 21:19 |
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Farecoal posted:I'm a bit confused. Why would climbers still be dizzy/get altitude sickness if they have bottled oxygen? Oxygen bottles are heavy and also don't last that long. Climbers generally only use oxygen on summit day or in an emergency. Even using oxygen doesn't negate the effects of altitude. I can't remember if it was in Into Thin Air but I read a book by a climber who was using oxygen and even then he was in mentally out of it. He turned the flow to full on without realizing what he was doing and ran out just after starting his descent. Edit: Beaten!
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| # ? May 23, 2012 21:19 |
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I Might Be Adam posted:You've just painted a picture in my head of something far deadlier than Everest. A mountain littered with garbage, oxygen tanks, frozen bodies and a dozen heaps of twisted burnt metal from specialty helicopters. Just imagine climbing the mountain with altitude sickness dodging crashing helicopters. So the Agro-crag then. Edit: Actually for more content, how many other mountains are as deadly as Everest too climb, I know that K2 (which is nearby I think) is a more difficult climb, or so I've heard. Axetrain fucked around with this message at May 23, 2012 around 21:23 |
| # ? May 23, 2012 21:20 |
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Saint Darwin posted:She used 9 bottles? How many was she supposed to have gone through? You've got to wonder when people saw her use that many bottles didn't anyone realise she wasn't going to make it and tell her to get back down? I guess if she was persistent enough you couldn't stop someone at that point. edit - Apparently people tried to make her turn back but she wouldn't 
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| # ? May 23, 2012 21:27 |
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olylifter posted:Everest would have been the first mountain she ever climbed. Farecoal posted:I'm a bit confused. Why would climbers still be dizzy/get altitude sickness if they have bottled oxygen? If someone can translate what's below it might help. It sounds like when you're that high up, basically everything just wants to shut down on you. (Everybody keeps quoting Into Thin Air, but it's for good reason: it's a great book. The way Krakauer put it, once you hit the "death zone," you're literally dying on your feet, and from that point on you're in a race to do what you can and get out before you're dead.) You might have oxygen, but you're hyperventilating so much that it's affecting your central nervous system, and once that goes you're in big trouble. Maybe you make it to the top and back down in that condition, or maybe you stop and offer your oxygen tank to the green boots guy. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2127151 quote:Human tolerance to chronic severe hypoxia has been elucidated by two recent high altitude studies: the 1981 American Medical Research Expedition to Everest, and Operation Everest II, a 40-day low pressure chamber-simulated ascent of Everest. The severe oxygen deprivation of extreme altitudes can only be tolerated because of an enormous increase in ventilation which defends the alveolar Po2 against the reduced inspired value. Nevertheless the arterial Po2 on the Everest summit is less than 30 mmHg. The hyperventilation results in a very low arterial Pco2 which causes severe respiratory alkalosis. This has the advantage of increasing the oxygen affinity of hemoglobin and accelerating the oxygen loading by the pulmonary capillary under diffusion-limited conditions. Cardiac function is astonishingly well maintained up to extreme altitudes. The relationship between cardiac output and work rate is the same as at sea level, and there is evidence that myocardial contractility is well preserved in spite of the extreme hypoxemia. However, there is impairment of central nervous system function at high altitude which persists following return to sea level. Significant abnormalities of motor coordination persisted for more than 12 months in most members of the Everest expedition. There is evidence that the climbers who ventilate most at high altitude have the most central nervous system impairment, presumably because of the more severe cerebral vasoconstriction. jackpot fucked around with this message at May 23, 2012 around 21:33 |
| # ? May 23, 2012 21:28 |
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Saint Darwin posted:She used 9 bottles? How many was she supposed to have gone through? 4 bottles is considering a safe minimum for the dead zone climb, 5-6 being average, 8 being considered ridiculous. The bottles themselves weigh about 5 lbs each so you try to hit the zone of weight and how much oxygen you can get by on. Edit: Axetrain posted:Edit: Actually for more content, how many other mountains are as deadly as Everest too climb, I know that K2 (which is nearby I think) is a more difficult climb, or so I've heard. Everest isn't too bad. If you're fit and a good climber it's really only the low oxygen and storms that you need to worry about. Annapurna and Kangchenjunga will kill your rear end dead for no reason other than bad luck, with your death usually being described as "Entire expedition crushed by falling house-sized block of ice." For comparison: Everest has a fatality rate of about 9%. Annapurna is 41%* No idea what Kangchenjunga's is. Suicidally high. *Though thanks to laptops, satellite internet, weather reports, and better visual lookouts, the rate has fallen to about 25% if you just use data from the last 10 years iirc. Omnicarus fucked around with this message at May 23, 2012 around 21:36 |
| # ? May 23, 2012 21:28 |
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Authentic You posted:This is mind-boggling to me. If she wanted to climb Everest so bad, why didn't she practice and aspire by climbing other mountains?? And this is the whole problem. Most of these tourists don't care about mountains or mountaineering, instead just focussing on the feat of going up Everest and the name of the mountain and having that box ticked in their bucket list to prove they are big achievers (and then never touch another mountain). Technical skills are irritating hindrances instead of something to enjoy using but even then I had no idea there were companies out there that didn't demand previous high altitude mountaineering experience. Ireland Sucks fucked around with this message at May 23, 2012 around 21:56 |
| # ? May 23, 2012 21:31 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 16:56 |
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Its rather telling that the kid who saved another kid, going for youngest Israeli to climb it, wanted to be the highest rescue ever. Gotta have something to brag to your rich friends about.
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| # ? May 23, 2012 21:49 |
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