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gowb posted:This game is pretty confusing, but it is super beautiful. I love the stained glass motif. CK 1 is one of my favorite games ever but I'm having a hard time switching over. Tutorial is pretty vague. Provinces can have as many holdings as they want? If I own a province, do I own all the holdings within it? There are some circumstances where another lord can hold holdings within your own provinces (usually via inheritance), but for the most part, yes, if you own a province you own all the holdings in it, whether part of your personal demesne or under your lordship. However, there are three types of holdings: castles, churches, and cities. If you directly own a church or city, you get a big penalty to taxes and levies, so it's best to relinquish those to bishops and mayors. You can just right click on said holdings and click a button to automatically assign a ruler. The number of holdings in a province is limited to the number of openings for holdings, which is set in stone. Rich provinces like Paris can have up to seven (the max) holdings, but dirt poor ones can only ever have two or three. Not all provinces start out with holding spots filled, and it costs 600 gold to build a new holding.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 04:23 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 06:19 |
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gowb posted:This game is pretty confusing, but it is super beautiful. I love the stained glass motif. CK 1 is one of my favorite games ever but I'm having a hard time switching over. Tutorial is pretty vague. Provinces can have as many holdings as they want? If I own a province, do I own all the holdings within it? Each province has a specific number of maximum holdings (baronies) which never changes, so if you see someone saying that "X province is really rich", they probably mean that it has like 6 or 7 potential holding slots. If you have the title for the county (province), then you are in control of the province but not necessarily all of the baronies in it. For example, a dumb baron might end up letting his title get inherited by someone outside of your realm. Each holding has a border around it. Green means its under your direct control, blue means its controlled by an AI character who swears allegiance to you, grey means they are not under your control, and red means that it's someone who you're at war with.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 05:36 |
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If you want to play as Spain and be a bitch, choose either Castille, Leon or Galaicia. Right off the bat kill your brothers (three brothers rule those three countries) before they have time to get an heir. Use plots instead of direct assassination (it'd cost too much early game) and bribe a couple of people to be backers in those plots. Bam, you own a huge chunk of northern Spain 1 year into the game and only have to deal with a few small rebellions and you can marry your way into aragon or barcelona before the moors capture it and convert it to muslim. drunkill fucked around with this message at May 28, 2012 around 06:05 |
| # ? May 28, 2012 06:02 |
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what is this game of thrones mod? Everytime I try I dont have permission to view that link. I love GOT.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 06:43 |
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Playing with CK2+ Historically plausible:  After a century, still Saxon. Guess they got their norman on  I started as the Count of Saris and Abauj in Hungary, usurped my Arpad liege after his unsuccessful war for the throne. After a king that reigned from 1068 to 1117 my heir usurped the Kingdom of Hungary thanks to marriage alliances with all the ducal families. After another century strategic marriage, I control Croatia, am third in line for the kingdom of Bohemia, and have claims on Sicily, Poland and Byzantium. And apparently the reformation happened, the Lollard heresy spread all over the place. It has mostly petered out, but it flares up again every few decades. All the heretic kings were overthrown except for England, who left the church for the Waldensian heresy, which only had provinces in England by that time. World map, 1210 
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| # ? May 28, 2012 06:45 |
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Well I went ahead and bought this blindly without trying the demo because it was only  on Amazon. I'm going to play it with my brother. Any suggestions on good combinations we can start as to work together? It seems like this game is like the Total War series but without a horrendously broken everything and lovely battles.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 07:30 |
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Dracneir posted:Well I went ahead and bought this blindly without trying the demo because it was only It's a political simulator. The combat is kind of tedious. I wouldn't say it's much like Total War at all, really.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 07:52 |
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Kanthulhu posted:Some good and challenging starting positions: Thanks for this suggestion. I'm now 20 years into this game, and it's been a lot of fun so far. I started out by taking two of the small Muslim countries to the west, while the king of Aragon kept their allies busy. Then, the big Muslim country in modern-day Algeria decided to attack me for no reason, and I barely managed to fight them off. When they stopped sending troops, I sent my armies to their lands, only to discover that they had all but ran out of armies. I then proceeded to lay waste to their lands (thanks, in part, to a generous donation from the Pope), eventually earning a complete victory, which came with more gold and a heap of piety and prestige. Next, I noticed that one of my dukes had a claim on a province held by Castille, which was wrapped up in a war with the Muslims in Valencia. I invaded Castille, and got away with a brand new province and hardly a dent in my relation with Castille. The same duke also had a claim on Alto Aragon, so after a short, painless war (none of the allies of Aragon could be bothered, I guess), I became king of Aragon, with about half of its provinces under my control. Current plan: Wait a while until some of the "Recently conquered" penalties of my new provinces go away, and then try to conquer the rest of Aragon. My current ruler (still the original one) is pushing 60, so I might wait for him to die, since I don't want to get wrapped up in succession-related woes while I'm fighting a war. This is my first moderately successful game of CK, so any advice would be appreciated.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 08:25 |
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Kresher posted:So, has anyone actually bought the ruler designer DLC and used it? I use it all the time, no big deal. There are events that will fire early on for rulers without enough personality traits.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 10:02 |
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Spakstik posted:I went through the tutorial and read the manual, but I guess I'm still a little unclear on how titles work. I was playing as Dublin and got Leinster, at which point I was able to decide what gets built in both territories. However, once my initial leader dies I end up losing control of either Dublin or Leinster when the title for either is automatically doled out to one of my family members, and I'm no longer able to control the construction in whatever territory got titled away. Is there a way to continue to be able to dictate what gets built? I've tried removing the title for each territory from whoever held it (before my initial ruler died) but I get this message at the top that says my ruler is holding the wrong title type, and then it gets redistributed anyway once he kicks the bucket. Succession Laws Succession laws are divided into two parts, the inheritance type and the gender rules. Let's start with genders, they're easiest. Agnatic In countries with Agnatic succession, women cannot inherit. Inheritance will be traced along male lines, meaning that if you have a brother, a 24 year old daughter, a 20 year old son and a grandon by each, the line of succession under primogeniture (firstborn inherits) is: 1. Your son 2. Your son's son 3. Your brother Your daughter and her children cannot gain an inheritance from you under agnatic succession. Agnatic-Cognatic Under Agnatic-Cognatic, the line of succession is such that women can inherit only if all the men in the same generation as them and their children die out. Basically works like many monarchies today. So with the same scenario as above the line is 1. Your son 2. Your son's son 3. Your daughter 4. Your daughter's son 5. Your brother Note that your son and his son are above your daughter and her son because men are given preference. If your son and his children die, your daughter can inherit. (True/Absolute) Cognatic Under cognatic succession, women inherit equally with men, with no preference given to them. So under cognatic succession the line goes: 1. Your daughter 2. Your daughter's son 3. Your son 4. Your son's son 5. Your brother Cognatic can be dangerous if you don't practice matrilineal or intra-dynastic marriages, as if your daughter's son is of a different dynasty you could stand to lose the game. Inheritance systems Primogeniture Everyone will probably be familiar with this by default. Under primogeniture, your firstborn gets it all. All the titles all the money. Your other children don't get diddly-squat. This will make your firstborn very happy, but expect your other children (and the rest of your family) to get a little miffed at this, and they are very likely to start wars to take your poo poo for themselves. Gavelkind This is the most common form of inheritance in Crusader Kings and though it might be confusing at first, it will make sense if you think of how inheritance works when a member of your own family in the real world dies. Under Gavelkind succession, your children share your inheritance equally between each other. Just like if your parents own two cars and have two children they will probably leave one car to each child, and you'll sell the house and split the money down the middle, so it is with your feudal lord's titles. If you have two counties, your sons take a county each. Two duchies, the same. Preference is given to older children, e.g. if you have three counties and two kids your eldest gets the third county. If you own two counties and a duchy, your counties are split between the two eldest children (eligible children, so daughters excluded under some rules and bastards excluded unless legitimised) and your duchy passes to your eldest. Your younger son (who becomes your brother as your character changes to your eldest) will now be a count in his own right, and will be your vassal since you are his duke. If you did not own a duchy, your son would then become independent of you as counts cannot have other counts as vassals. Similarly if you've got two duchies, your realm will split in two. If you are looking to game the system, this means that you need to avoid having more than one child (or kill off all but one child), or never hold more than one of your highest title tier (so if you're a duke never own more than one duchy, never have more than one kingdom as a king) Elective Under Elective, your de jure vassals get together and vote for the next ruler. Usually vassals who like you will vote for your preferred candidate, but if they like someone more, that person is going to get the votes. De Jure vassals mean that if, say, the kingdom of France is elective, then every duke in the kingdom of France votes for the successor, even if they are not swearing fealty to the kingdom of France! This is a very precarious form of succession, and you are in no sense guaranteed to keep an elective title for any significant length of time. Seniority When your ruler dies, the oldest member of dynasty inherits. This is a double-edged sword with razor-sharp diamond edges. On one hand you will quickly consolidate every territory owned by your family into a single realm as you fire through successions every five years due to old people dying. On the other hand, your realm will be in a constant state of collapse due to constant bad opinion from being a new ruler, and unable to change to a different form of succession since you can't do that unless you reign for at least 10 years, which probably won't happen with your geriatric old rear end on the throne. It is worth bearing in mind that different titles can have different succession rules. In an elective kingdom, usually only the King is elected, meaning that if you are the king and lose the election, the duchies you own will remain in your posession while the king title transfers to the election winner. The other point worth bearing in mind is that Primogeniture makes your succession easy to manage by making your inheritance secure, but makes your realm difficult to manage if your vassals are family members, while Gavelkind makes your succession difficult to manage, but allows you to run a realm full of family members who all like you and generally will not rebel. This explains the issue with Leinster splitting in two upon succession--the other county goes to the second son. Reveilled fucked around with this message at May 28, 2012 around 11:36 |
| # ? May 28, 2012 11:33 |
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Reveilled posted:Stuff Yoink -> OP
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| # ? May 28, 2012 12:24 |
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gowb posted:This game is pretty confusing, but it is super beautiful. I love the stained glass motif. CK 1 is one of my favorite games ever but I'm having a hard time switching over. Tutorial is pretty vague. Provinces can have as many holdings as they want? If I own a province, do I own all the holdings within it? Provinces have a set maximum number of holdings. If you own a province it means you own its capital but not necessarily the other holdings on it.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 13:30 |
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I had a confusing first war, which made me do my 10th restart to understand the game. I started out in the south-west county of Ireland, forged a claim against my neighbor and went to war against him. I won the war by forcing the opposition to surrender after a long siege, but somehow another dude started ruling that county, and the other province split itself by having a Norwegian hag as the lord mayor.  WTF?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 13:40 |
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When you went to war, are you sure you pressed your own manufactured claim? You may have accidentally chosen the option to press a vassal's claim, in which case you were just helping your buddy out. Check his opinion of you; it will have "Pressed my claim +100" if this was the case.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 14:17 |
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Wingless posted:When you went to war, are you sure you pressed your own manufactured claim? You may have accidentally chosen the option to press a vassal's claim, in which case you were just helping your buddy out. Check his opinion of you; it will have "Pressed my claim +100" if this was the case. Oh poo poo, that was the case! No wonder why the claim was for both provinces when my forgery was only for a single province. I R Dumb.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 14:21 |
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That solved it, thanks. Now if I could just keep all of my neighbors from declaring war on me... E: Also what's the deal with the Pope coming all the way to Ireland to fabricate claims on my turf? No idea what I did to tick the guy off. Spakstik fucked around with this message at May 28, 2012 around 15:42 |
| # ? May 28, 2012 15:15 |
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So do Paradox employees still regularly say insane, racist poo poo on public forums and refuse to let you play as the brown untermensch?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 15:53 |
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SSJ4weedgoku posted:So do Paradox employees still regularly say insane, racist poo poo on public forums and refuse to let you play as the brown untermensch? You can't play as Muslims(without a mod like CK2+ or at least an ini edit anyway) still but I think it's for mechanical reasons, since to do it right they'd have to come up with new systems that in some way resemble their actual political and religious structure at the time. I'm not educated enough to know if that was something kind of like the feudal system but I know at least they weren't paying taxes to the Pope. Supposedly here's a Muslim expansion on the way.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 16:01 |
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The only Paradox game I've ever attempted was EU3 and I was hopelessly lost there, but I remember reading a pretty awesome LP of the first CK and this one was only , so I went for it. Installed now, I'm sure I'll be back shortly with a story of hilarious failure.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 16:01 |
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So if you marry a young man of your dude to a girl somewhere, she comes to your court and the kids are your bloodline? And if you do a matrilineal marriage with a girl of your house to a dude of somewhere else, he comes to you and the kids are also of your bloodline? So if you want to get people's titles and expand the house, marry sons normally and daughters matrilinearly. If you just want alliances and good relations you marry daughters normally and sons matrilinearly? Seems like the last option (marrying your own sons off matrilinearly) risks giving away the titles that son holds, because his kids will inherit his stuff on behalf of their mother's house, right? So a typical expansion strategy is to marry sons normally and daughters matrilinearly, and that lets you inherit other houses' stuff into your house?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 16:44 |
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WAMPA_STOMPA posted:So if you marry a young man of your dude to a girl somewhere, she comes to your court and the kids are your bloodline? And if you do a matrilineal marriage with a girl of your house to a dude of somewhere else, he comes to you and the kids are also of your bloodline? That's about right. There's really no reason to ever marry your male dynasty members off matrilineally, unless you're marrying them to somebody else of the same dynasty in which case I'm pretty sure it makes zero difference which type of marriage you pick, except for who goes to whose court.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 16:51 |
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Reveilled posted:Gavelkind Should probably mention that gavelkind has some serious advantages. First, you get a 30% bonus to your personal demesne size, and having a large personal demesne means power. Second, you don't get a prestige penalty for having unlanded sons, so you can keep them in your court until you die to prevent the AI from sending your grandchildren to be educated by morons and foreigners. Third, you'll almost always start out with it and it requires the lowest crown laws to implement. Also, there are ways of mitigating the disadvantages. One is to never have more than one of your highest-rank title. The other is to simply appoint your younger sons to be bishop successors. This takes them out of your family succession as long as they're in line for the bishopric, and permanently if they actually become a bishop. One note of caution: if you meet some bad luck and your ruler only produces female heirs, do not arrange patrilineal marriages with other rulers! That's a good way to lose a big chunk of your realm.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 16:52 |
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:You can't play as Muslims(without a mod like CK2+ or at least an ini edit anyway) still but I think it's for mechanical reasons, since to do it right they'd have to come up with new systems that in some way resemble their actual political and religious structure at the time. I'm not educated enough to know if that was something kind of like the feudal system but I know at least they weren't paying taxes to the Pope. The game only prevents you from picking a Muslim ruler from the start (which can actually be easily modded out), but there are ways of becoming Muslim after you start. The easiest would be to start as an independent ruler, and then swear fealty to a higher Muslim ruler. It doesn't always work, but if it does you can use the intrigue decision to convert to your liege's religion, and presto, you're Muslim! However, there's really nothing unique about playing Muslim, they're practically identical to playing as a Christian. Presumably the "Jihadi Sultans" expansion will introduce unique gameplay mechanics for them.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 16:57 |
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Is there a way to view what the CPU players rules of succession are? I've married a countess and I'd like to see whether it's worth my assassinating her heirs so her titles pass on.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:38 |
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Tempbot posted:Is there a way to view what the CPU players rules of succession are? I've married a countess and I'd like to see whether it's worth my assassinating her heirs so her titles pass on. Since each title can have different rules of succession, just mouse over the crest (the bigger version of the crest in the area that lets you usurp titles) of the title you're interested in and it'll show the type of succession and who is due to inherit.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:46 |
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Is it weird that by 1200, there are like... no Catholic rulers? Ireland, HRE and norway are Cathar, Scotland is Lollardian, Navarra, France, England, and Sicily are Waldesnian... the religious authority for the Catholic Church is down to 15% or so. Poland seems to be the last Catholic holdout. edit; nevermind Poland converted to Cathar as well Cityinthesea fucked around with this message at May 28, 2012 around 17:57 |
| # ? May 28, 2012 17:51 |
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Reveilled posted:Elective
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:56 |
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Is it possible to make a county elective?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 18:02 |
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Toplowtech posted:Actually if you end up as a lucky Duke owning all of your dukedom's counties, it's a really nice law to have since you can choose your successor and since you are the only one voting THERE ARE NO PRETENDERS. It's also pretty good if you're the most powerful noble by a long shot as even if you lose the election you can just take the crown by force like a sore loser jerk.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 18:02 |
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This should be amusing to watch, once both the french queen and HRE emperor die. I doubt there will be much left of them after he inherits. Since currently the HRE can pull 100K doomstacks to defend Corsica with, the imminent collapse is good for me!
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| # ? May 28, 2012 18:08 |
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Fister Roboto posted:Should probably mention that gavelkind has some serious advantages. First, you get a 30% bonus to your personal demesne size, and having a large personal demesne means power. Second, you don't get a prestige penalty for having unlanded sons, so you can keep them in your court until you die to prevent the AI from sending your grandchildren to be educated by morons and foreigners. Third, you'll almost always start out with it and it requires the lowest crown laws to implement. You forgot the biggest benefit of all, it makes the game fun and interesting. Surviving on Primogeniture is pathetically easy unless you get horribly unlucky and becomes old/boring after a while. Throw a few generations of Gravelkind in the mix and you've got some hard work in front of you.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 18:21 |
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What holdings do I need to build up myself? Everything on my personal demesne or just the one I am directly in charge of that have no mayor/bishop? Assuming I can keep my important vassals in line, is there any downside to having high Crown Law? Is there a way to consolidate the giant pile of kingdom titles I amass by conquering Iberia?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 18:50 |
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Not that this is a super bad thread, but why a new thread? Shouldn't the megathread suffice?OP posted:Yes! There is a multiplayer. I have not played it yet so I can't comment. Maybe I'll update the post once I do, or if someone wants to do up a paragraph I'll paste it in. Maybe some goons can play it together as some sort of incestuous neighbours united against the world. Paradox multiplayer, both cooperative and competitive, is hella-fun, CK2 included. If you haven't gotten a chance, I recommend it.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 18:58 |
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sniper4625 posted:Not that this is a super bad thread, but why a new thread? Shouldn't the megathread suffice? Not really, CK2 really deserves its own room to shine, specially with the Game of Thrones fever going on.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 19:11 |
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I'm really having fun with this game, but over what timescale should I be doing things or expecting them t happen? I went with Dublin to start, and then 44 years later I had dublin, Liencester, Ossory and killdare while holding duke of Meath and Liencester or something. Is that about normal?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 19:50 |
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Carcer posted:I'm really having fun with this game, but over what timescale should I be doing things or expecting them t happen? I went with Dublin to start, and then 44 years later I had dublin, Liencester, Ossory and killdare while holding duke of Meath and Liencester or something. It all depends on how you play it. You could spend a great deal of time expanding your holdings if you don't go to war for them and only play the inheritance game, or you could try to war and get really unlucky at fabricating claims. Really, as long as you feel each character has accomplished something of note I'd say you're doing fine. You're playing as a family, not a country or territory, and you can roleplay that family however you want.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 20:01 |
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Carcer posted:I'm really having fun with this game, but over what timescale should I be doing things or expecting them t happen? I went with Dublin to start, and then 44 years later I had dublin, Liencester, Ossory and killdare while holding duke of Meath and Liencester or something. I'd say that's pretty normal for a small-time county. I'm playing a game starting as count of Glamorgan and i'm just now expanding west into Ireland. Around that same timeframe, my ruler died and my heir took over and has ruled for about 5 years, so...1106 or something.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 20:07 |
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I was just playing the Game of Thrones mod, and I realised the most tragic thing: you can't marry your children to each other. How am I to properly Targ' it up without incest? This is outrageous.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 20:27 |
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Riso posted:I was just playing the Game of Thrones mod, and I realised the most tragic thing: you can't marry your children to each other. Open console and type in marry_anyone.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 20:30 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 06:19 |
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Riso posted:I was just playing the Game of Thrones mod, and I realised the most tragic thing: you can't marry your children to each other. So I might be joining the Game of Thrones team and working on a way to hunt down Targaryens, and resolve megawars in general. Fewer blanket pardons and more rebel lords taking the Black (or being shortened by a head). Kings of the Five Boroughs is going on the backburner, but I felt like I was burning out on it anyway. Wiz posted:Open console and type in marry_anyone.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 20:30 |
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