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Contest is over, winners announced! The June Design Contest: Break My Fantasy Heart It's time for another Trad Games Design Contest! The April contest, run by Mikan, was a great time for all, and so I decided to pick up a similar idea with a very different goal. This is a contest to produce a D&D Clone. It can be a clone of any published iteration of D&D, from the Little Brown Books to Essentials. Your entry must include character creation that covers at least four classes and three races or similar backgrounds, levelling guidelines for at least levels 1-3 for all characters, a conversion of one published TSR/WotC adventure (in part or whole), enough rules to run that adventure with all possible characters, and a DM's advice section that explains how to run your game. Judging Entries will be judged by our Subforum Celebrity Judging Panel on the following criteria, in rough order of importance:
This all essentially boils down to present a better, more complete clone of D&D than the D&D Next playtest, and do it in thirty days. Explicitly not on the judging list are anything related to caster superiority OR class balance (although you could include either as your improvements), loyalty to the "dungeon-crawl" aspect of D&D, and layout/page design. You're being judged on your rules and flavor, not on your ability to work with InDesign. The top entries who meet all of the criteria and don't slip on the schedule will be reviewed by our Minor Subforum Celebrity Judging Panel! Also, you get the joy of having done more in thirty days, on your own, than Wizards of the Coast did in a year. Also also, there are going to be prizes! Swagger Dagger has donated two Drive Thru RPG gift certificates, one for the winner and one for a random finisher! Also, the amazing Mikan has thrown a few of his RPG books and a super-secret prize into the mix. There might be more prizes! Stay tuned! Schedule I'm adhering to a strict schedule because it's funny that random goons can stick to deadlines and real game companies can't. The listed materials are due by MIDNIGHT in TIR TAIRNGIRE'S ONE TRUE TIME ZONE (Pacific Daylight Time, GMT-7). By 4 June you should have sent in a a rough one-page outline of your project. This officially enters you in the CONTEST and means that I will be very happy. Each week after this, you should turn in one of the required modules: character creation, rules & advice, or the adventure. The first module is due 13 June, the second is due 18 June, and the third and final module is due 24 June. And then...I have added another goal! We must playtest your game! By 30 June, we'll organize at least one session of your game with a group and post a playtest report. Special additional rule: You may not use Keep on the Borderlands as your adventure. FAQ For when we submit our outlines/modules, where should we submit to? You are welcome to host them in a place of your choosing, or email to brainfullofgames@gmail.com Can I work with a partner? I don't judge people for love! If I produce a perfectly nostalgic B/X retroclone but with improvements from 3.5, will I win? Probably not. Piell is one of the judges, and if you make broken math like 3.5, he will stab you in the heart. Can I hate on other people for not making something like my favorite edition? No. You can edition war in the edition war thread Can I make a 5e playtest futureclone? I am pretty explicitly against people cloning or altering fifth edition. I want people to come at this from a distinct, complete system, not a half-finished playtest document. Should we reserve some space in this thread to post our stuff all in one place, or is it OK if we make posts for it as we get things done? I'd prefer it if people post updates in new posts. Is there a length requirement? Nope! At the very minimum, I'd say you might want at least three pages, but what do I know? Is there a good source of free official adventures to convert? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?...0030530b&page=1 is the official WotC page. Quality is...highly variable. Your local game store should have something in the bargain bin. What if I have a question? Ask, and I'll answer! Then I will send Red_Mage to your house and he might murder you. Or make you biscuits. That's not a euphemism, unless it is.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 21:30 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 11:18 |
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Since I'm judging I'm gonna skip making all this lame D&D stuff to make a sweet fantasy D&D-inspired FATE hack. Also I love 3.5 but hate it's rules so there you go. Give it that 3.5 Feel, you know what I'm talking about.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 21:32 |
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As much as I expect people to do it, D&D mechanics are not implicit to the contest.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 21:39 |
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Can I make a 5e playtest futureclone? I'm pretty sure I can use the same concepts and make them not suck, even if forced to use theater of the mind and wizards. I am also down with donating prizes but I'll PM you about that.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 21:40 |
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I am absolutely in, but I have a few questions. You say published editions of D&D, but can I make mine a 5e clone? Based purely on the posts on the WotC blogs, taking the basic concepts they're claiming to work with there and trying to apply them in a way that totally works? Also, would an update of the dungeon-building system from the back of the Basic rulebook be enough for a module conversion or will I need to convert a module as well? I'm honestly a bit worried about the module conversion. You can't copyright game mechanics themselves, but the inherent settings involved in a module seem like they'd actually be pretty well legally protected. Edit: Ahahahaha, totally beaten on the 5e-clone question.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 21:43 |
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OtspIII posted:I'm honestly a bit worried about the module conversion. You can't copyright game mechanics themselves, but the inherent settings involved in a module seem like they'd actually be pretty well legally protected. I think you will certainly be in the clear if you are just converting mechanics. Aside from that WotC isn't going to take you to task over old TSR stuff.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 21:46 |
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Swagger Dagger posted:Can I make a 5e playtest futureclone? I'm pretty sure I can use the same concepts and make them not suck, even if forced to use theater of the mind and wizards. Swagger Dagger, you kick rear end. Thank you for agreeing to donate two Drive-Thru RPG gift certificates! I'll put them on the prize list! To answer your question, I am pretty explicitly against people cloning or altering fifth edition. I want people to come at this from a distinct, complete system, not a half-finished playtest document. OtspIII posted:Also, would an update of the dungeon-building system from the back of the Basic rulebook be enough for a module conversion or will I need to convert a module as well? Since we're not looking to sell or even properly publish these games, I would not be worried about any copyright issues. Hell, people have straight-up published re-titled TSR adventures under the OGL. If you were to put good amount work into a dungeon-building system, though, that would be enough!
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| # ? May 30, 2012 21:54 |
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Gau posted:Swagger Dagger, you kick rear end. Thank you for agreeing to donate two Drive-Thru RPG gift certificates! I'll put them on the prize list! That's a bummer, it's basically the only thing I wanted to do. I guess I could do the exact same thing and say it's a "3.5 clone"
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| # ? May 30, 2012 21:56 |
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Out of curiosity, how much of a D&D 'feel' clone does a system need to have? That is, how heavily must it be attached to fantasy, swords and wizards? I've got some ideas for a retroclone, but due to the way I'm envisioning them they'd work equally well for a modern or futuristic game, as the mechanics are mostly generic. Would gunning for a broader scope where, say, the rules advice presented features medieval fantasy along with renaissance fantasy and more modern urban fantasy take away points even if the fantasy part is well represented?
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| # ? May 30, 2012 22:10 |
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Must we explicitly state which version of D&D we're cloning, or will our submissions' D&D-ness be determined by the panel? I ask because I don't actually own any D&D books, but I would like to try my hand at designing something D&D-like.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 22:12 |
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Gau posted:To answer your question, I am pretty explicitly against people cloning or altering fifth edition. I want people to come at this from a distinct, complete system, not a half-finished playtest document.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 22:17 |
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QuantaStarFire posted:Can we poach features from 5th, such as backgrounds/themes and such? These existed in fourth edition, so sure!
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| # ? May 30, 2012 22:20 |
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The goal is to make a D&D. It should be an improved D&D. If you want to make a D&D about adventuring through urban wastelands and killing opposing gangs, you can do that. If you want to make a D&D about being stuck in a sliders-style scenario and visiting different planes without any control, you can do that. If you want to make a D&D that is written in Basic English and uses only d6, you can do that. However, I would highly recommend you pick a tight, easily executable design for this.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 22:26 |
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Well, gonna tentatively sign up my "Ability Scores Are Everything" D&D clone-game I started working on today. I still don't know which edition exactly it's supposed to be improving on (It's mostly a riff off of the base skill resolution system of Basic and AD&D), but it's going to be pretty drat D&D.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 22:38 |
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Is it acceptable to, for example, poach 4e's combat system wholesale and just rebuild everything around it, and just reference those rules instead of trying to retype all of them to avoid copyright?
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| # ? May 30, 2012 22:44 |
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I'll tentatively hop in on this, but if I end up getting a job in the near future this thing's going to be the first free-time sponge up against the wall
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| # ? May 30, 2012 22:48 |
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Yeah. Signing up for this. D&D: Caster Supremacy XTREME edition will start work this weekend.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 22:48 |
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God dammit. I'm still slogging away at Touhou, also recently investing some serious time in a dramatically improved Treasure Hunters, and now I have to design a retro clone? This is an awfully tall order and I'm not certain I'll be able to manage it, but that won't stop me from trying. This particular effort probably won't feature the same pdf treatment Treasure Hunters recieved during the March contest. The adventure I intend to reproduce will be Night of the Walking Dead, which, after the establishment of the Ravenloft campaign setting for 2nd Edition AD&D, was the first beginning level adventure module available. It was the first module I ever DMed, I had a blast doing it, and I remember it fondly. I guess this means my retro game is probably 2nd Edition based, though I am likely to borrow pretty goddamn heavily from much newer ones. This is going to be a hillarious disaster.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 22:58 |
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The only acceptable answer to this challenge is to make a 4th edition that's literally a World of Warcraft clone. (That is not what I'm going to do if I have enough free time to enter, but it would be pretty funny.)
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| # ? May 30, 2012 23:10 |
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I don't really know what makes a game "D&D" if it isn't the theme or mechanics, but I'll give this a shot (despite knowing that June is too busy for me to have any chance of making the deadlines).
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| # ? May 30, 2012 23:15 |
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Gau posted:The goal is to make a D&D. It should be an improved D&D. If you want to make a D&D about adventuring through urban wastelands and killing opposing gangs, you can do that. If you want to make a D&D about being stuck in a sliders-style scenario and visiting different planes without any control, you can do that. If you want to make a D&D that is written in Basic English and uses only d6, you can do that. However, I would highly recommend you pick a tight, easily executable design for this. Alright, so it doesn't have to just emulate the D&D fantasy niche. Sweet! Next question then: should we reserve some space in this thread to post our stuff all in one place, or is it OK if we make posts for it as we get things done?
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| # ? May 30, 2012 23:15 |
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Pangalin posted:I don't really know what makes a game "D&D" if it isn't the theme or mechanics, but I'll give this a shot (despite knowing that June is too busy for me to have any chance of making the deadlines). I think that's the joke. It just has to "feel like D&D."
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| # ? May 30, 2012 23:17 |
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Transient People posted:Alright, so it doesn't have to just emulate the D&D fantasy niche. Sweet! Next question then: should we reserve some space in this thread to post our stuff all in one place, or is it OK if we make posts for it as we get things done? I'd prefer it if people post updates in new posts. The whole editing previous posts with updated information thing is annoying. NinjaDebugger posted:Is it acceptable to, for example, poach 4e's combat system wholesale and just rebuild everything around it, and just reference those rules instead of trying to retype all of them to avoid copyright? You don't have to retype all of them, but including enough to make it a playable game is required. I have no problems if you bill your game as 4E compatible, but "hey for combat rules go to the RC" is not what this contest is about.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 23:22 |
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I'm working on a d20-derived retroclone tentatively named C.R.A.S.S. Class, Race, Attacks, Stamina, Skills. Settled features include minimizing cross-siloing between these things so that, for example, class doesn't determine the lion's share of your skill, and cutting loose 'numbers which determine other numbers'. So, for instance, I don't have a "Dexterity score" which determines my Dex mod which in turn determines my ranged attack bonus and my lockpicking skill: we just go for the end numbers of +x to ranged attacks and lockpicking. Of course, I'll be taking some explicit power set-up from 4e and some material from older weapon masteries for my fighter variant.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 23:44 |
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Gau posted:I'd prefer it if people post updates in new posts. The whole editing previous posts with updated information thing is annoying.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 23:47 |
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Can entries be straightfoward, information dense three page per module deals? If so, then prepare to enter the world of D* Dungeon Delving Squad. Where D* is and adjective beginning with D. Well, After I decide on a totally non lovely name after tomorrow.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 23:58 |
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Hooray! You will all stare in wonderment at my beautiful City Of Heroes / 4e mashup heartbreaker!
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| # ? May 30, 2012 23:58 |
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Can entries be straightfoward, information dense three page per module deals? I was going to set a word floor, but decided against it. If you think your game can manage on ten pages, go for it!
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| # ? May 30, 2012 23:59 |
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Throwing my hat in the ring. Is there a good source of free official adventures to convert? The only published adventure I actually own is Cairn of the Winter King, because it came with Monster Vault.
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:01 |
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PublicOpinion posted:Throwing my hat in the ring. Is there a good source of free official adventures to convert? The only published adventure I actually own is Cairn of the Winter King, because it came with Monster Vault. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?...0030530b&page=1
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:03 |
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I'm in, but I might completely gently caress up on loyalty to the source.
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:05 |
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Thinking about giving this a shot. Most likely it'll be a version of 4th edition with the classes tossed out and a more compact skill system. Not sure what to do about powers, though. If I give up on this it'll likely be trying to trudge through those and fitting them into a new, more abstract framework.
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:10 |
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Quick Question, Does Chainmail count as D&D for this competition?
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:11 |
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Tao Jones posted:The only acceptable answer to this challenge is to make a 4th edition that's literally a World of Warcraft clone. There is no possible universe in which I have enough time for this contest, otherwise I'd totally do this. Somebody should definitely, definitely do this. Best of all I bet it'd be really fun to play, especially for those of us who love 4e but hate MMOGs.
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:12 |
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Quick Question, Does Chainmail count as D&D for this competition? Chainmail is a wargame, so I don't see how it would work into making a better D&D system. It doesn't really play like OD&D except in the sense that it sucks from a modern perspective.
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:15 |
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Gau posted:Chainmail is a wargame, so I don't see how it would work into making a better D&D system. It doesn't really play like OD&D except in the sense that it sucks from a modern perspective. Worked for Gygax and Arneson, good enough for goons  . Seriously though that's fine, I'm just gonna work on my less lovely idea.
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:19 |
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I'm so in. For when we submit our outlines/modules, where should we submit to? So, THAC0's in but modified, skills are out, Aspects are in from FATE...
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:21 |
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I'm in with some hot 4e retroclone action. In the spirit of the One True Edition, all four of the classes will be martial.
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:27 |
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I've been working on the design goals for an "inspired by 3.x/4e D&D" game for a while now. Hopefully this contest will kick my rear end into actually working on the mechanics instead of just brainstorming. 
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:27 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 11:18 |
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Byers2142 posted:I'm so in. For when we submit our outlines/modules, where should we submit to? You are welcome to host them in a place of your choosing, or email to brainfullofgames@gmail.com
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| # ? May 31, 2012 00:34 |
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