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Gamesguy
Sep 7, 2010



Mr. Stingly posted:

Nobody pointed out the car icon in the hacking menu wheel. Because at the end of the demo he jumps into a car and starts it without hacking or anything, I'm wondering if that means you can remote control something like a near-future Google Car.

But then again every car in the demo clearly has a driver, so that's kind of wishful thinking on my part.

The car he jumps into was a getaway car parked there ahead of time by the guy he talks to in the art gallery.

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Hob_Gadling
Jul 6, 2007

"I am angry, angry about alternative gender identity elves!"

paint dry posted:

Joking aside a lot of people feel like this but we are vastly, vastly outnumbered and we need to learn not to get our hopes up ever. The only way the mainstream games industry is going to move away from manshootin' is if every male under 23 suddenly drops dead.

I'm still hoping for a military shooter that forces you to acknowledge Geneva Conventions somehow. Maybe even one in the vein of Band of Brothers, where Winters just stopped shooting his weapon completely. Until I see a second anti-war game I simply won't believe games are art.

For those interested, the first and to my knowledge only anti-war game was Theatre Europe, a 1985 game about World War 3. From Wikipedia:

Wikipedia posted:

One unusual aspect of the game is that in order to initiate a nuclear attack, the player had to call a special United Kingdom telephone number to hear the launch code. (Versions of the game localized for the United States directed the player to a U.S. telephone number.) The telephone number connected the player to a recorded message, which started with the sound of air raid sirens and dramatically built up through various sounds of war to a huge explosion, followed by the sound of a crying baby. As this faded out, a voice stated, "If this is really what you want... the code is 'Midnight Sun'".

The manual is also solidly written, especially the designers notes.

Sorry, this is slightly off topic. I'll shut up now.

randombattle
Oct 16, 2008

This hand of mine shines and roars! It's bright cry tells me to grasp victory!



Mordaedil posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4KO2eQeLJ8

The first minute here.

I am seriously disturbed by this.

The grossest part about the Splinter Cell stuff is just that they open up this demo with Fisher going in and killing guys who are not doing anything beyond unloading small boxes while completely unarmed. It's that gritty realism while being realistically gross about things that actually happens in real life.

It's one thing to say "Ok Kratos just ripped that elephant man's brains out" but hey at least that is a violent angry elephant man who was just trying to goober Kratos and yes hey GTA has you killing hookers but it's so goofy you can't really take it seriously.

randombattle fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2012 around 08:40

Bigsteve
Dec 15, 2000

Cock It!

Hob_Gadling posted:

I'm still hoping for a military shooter that forces you to acknowledge Geneva Conventions somehow. Maybe even one in the vein of Band of Brothers, where Winters just stopped shooting his weapon completely. Until I see a second anti-war game I simply won't believe games are art.

For those interested, the first and to my knowledge only anti-war game was Theatre Europe, a 1985 game about World War 3. From Wikipedia:


The manual is also solidly written, especially the designers notes.

Sorry, this is slightly off topic. I'll shut up now.

I remember playing this back in the day and phoning that number. My dad didn't believe me when I told him so he called it as well. I don't know if this is the first time a game ever branched out into the real world but its definitely the first I remember.

Out of E3 this and Last of Us as the only real stand outs. Hopefully Watch Dogs is done justice on the consoles as its really got my interest.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



mysterious frankie posted:

I thought that was sort of... well, neat. There's potential there to insinuate how far gone your character is by showing the consequences of your actions in terms of human life and giving you an ingame choice to react to them. Although that could get hilarious quick, ala GTA, if you're blowing up gas mains & killing entire crowds of bystanders just to take out one target, then in cut scenes you pull a "Sam please. He had a family." whenever NPCs show disregard for human life.

In SRTT, I always paused to see if I killed a pedestrian. If they got up, I determined that they were okay and should walk it off. Also, I imagine that I move too fast in the game to catch Legal Lee and the Saints-Ultor legal team running around behind my path of destruction, delivering payouts for injury and emotional damages.

Hob_Gadling posted:

I'm still hoping for a military shooter that forces you to acknowledge Geneva Conventions somehow. Maybe even one in the vein of Band of Brothers, where Winters just stopped shooting his weapon completely. Until I see a second anti-war game I simply won't believe games are art.

For those interested, the first and to my knowledge only anti-war game was Theatre Europe, a 1985 game about World War 3. From Wikipedia:

The manual is also solidly written, especially the designers notes.

Sorry, this is slightly off topic. I'll shut up now.

Balance of Power had the game instantly end whenever you went nuclear, with a black screen stating that ""You have ignited a nuclear war. And no, there is no animated display of a mushroom cloud with parts of bodies flying through the air. We do not reward failure."

Hob_Gadling
Jul 6, 2007

"I am angry, angry about alternative gender identity elves!"

Young Freud posted:

Balance of Power had the game instantly end whenever you went nuclear, with a black screen stating that ""You have ignited a nuclear war. And no, there is no animated display of a mushroom cloud with parts of bodies flying through the air. We do not reward failure."

I remember that, but I don't consider the game anti-war. You still supply money and arms all around the world, even to horrible dictators, to support your imperium. You're no saint just because you don't wage war yourself.

Carecat
Apr 27, 2004



keyframe posted:

Like I said last page I have a friend who play tested the thing and he said it plays like a futuristic GTA. So set your expectations with that in mind.

The missions in GTA are completely linear as well but you can still walk around and do sandbox "rear end in a top hat simulator" which is where the real fun is.

Exactly, GTA and Saints Row 3 missions are totally linear. The shootout took place in a really small area but if they had shown a foot chase or car chase there wouldn't be these complaints.

They talk about following him down to the parking lot as an alternate option. That's less linear than either of those games.

Carecat fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2012 around 11:06

Al!
Apr 2, 2010



Young Freud posted:

Balance of Power had the game instantly end whenever you went nuclear, with a black screen stating that ""You have ignited a nuclear war. And no, there is no animated display of a mushroom cloud with parts of bodies flying through the air. We do not reward failure."

Remember that in the 80's the threat of a nuclear apocalypse was still very real and very present. If you did that today people would assume that you hate war and therefore you hate the troops.

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Yup, that's a skjold all right.

paint dry posted:

Um yes but do you know how many copies that game would sell? Three copies: you, me and the lead developer's mother.

Joking aside a lot of people feel like this but we are vastly, vastly outnumbered and we need to learn not to get our hopes up ever. The only way the mainstream games industry is going to move away from manshootin' is if every male under 23 suddenly drops dead.

It's not that it wouldn't sell, it's that it's a risk and publishers do not want to sponsor a risk.

If done right, you could easily make a game entirely based around being a hacker who never touches a gun. It really depends more on presentation.

Behonkiss
Feb 10, 2005


It's kind of funny what a bait-and-switch they pulled with the initial announcement. They had the speaker make a big deal out of it being a big-scale top secret project, then devoted like 5 minutes to that weird video talking about power and hacking and whatnot. I'm pretty sure that until the actual game popped up, people were becoming convinced it was a social mobile game or something. Thankfully, that was not the case, and I think what we've seen has a lot of potential.

Mistress Khary
Jan 27, 2005

And if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.


Michael Scott posted:

Can you ask him for details please??? Perhaps a very tentative release window?

No, they really can't talk about it.

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006

I see you.


RPS posted an interview, mostly stuff we already knew, but some new bits(for me) too.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...-on-watch-dogs/

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

I have to learn forbidden magic I took an oath to wipe out, stop an invasion of Orcs, rescue the Council of Seven, and on top of all that, I'm stuck with you.


i poo poo trains posted:

Considering that the demo was heavily scripted because of the format of the presentation and that the game is likely 1-2 years from release (if not more), I think it's too early to begin damning the gameplay for being too linear. I think people are already projecting their desire for an open world Deus Ex/their anger at GTA 4 on what is essentially very advanced stage concept art. It's just too early to pass judgement on how scripted or not the end product is going to be.

Exactly. Someone made the very good point (in the PC Gaming thread, I think) that games are buggy on release. This is the first footage we've seen, it's probably at least a YEAR away from release. Of course the E3 presentation will rely on scripting a lot - the game isn't close to done yet! They've got to do dozens of presentations a day to journalists, and no one benefits from going off the rails if there's unfinished and buggy alpha code to either side.

The thing that worries me isn't a scripted demo patched together to show off potential, it's the talk of trying to get co-op/multiplayer to work.

ally_1986
Apr 3, 2011

Wait...I had something for this...


Really like the idea of this game, hope they give you lots of options to complete missions and this could be something swell.

The game seems to take a fair amount of inspiration from the TV show Person's of Interest and just merged the two main characters into one lethal and hacking professional!

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

*smokes vigorously*

Mordaedil posted:

If done right, you could easily make a game entirely based around being a hacker who never touches a gun. It really depends more on presentation.

That could be presented in a really neat way too, sort of Mirror's Edge, minus the coordinated gymnastics. Fights, in theory, shouldn't happen because your planning horizon for a job accounts for everything. If something goes wrong, or you plan lousy and are caught, it should be more of a cat and mouse game, where you clumsily try to evade the enemy. Picking up a gun could switch to a woozily swaying, awkward first person view; your character pants and curses under their breath, tries firing the gun with the safety on, almost always misses when they do successfully fire and generally your view of the action becomes disoriented after doing so, as the kickback from the gun jerks the character around. Maybe sometimes you accidentally pick up a hot gun by the barrel, don't know how to reload them, etc. There could be a lot of fun tension behind being a great hacker who is just totally incompetent at violence.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010



mysterious frankie posted:

That could be presented in a really neat way too, sort of Mirror's Edge, minus the coordinated gymnastics. Fights, in theory, shouldn't happen because your planning horizon for a job accounts for everything. If something goes wrong, or you plan lousy and are caught, it should be more of a cat and mouse game, where you clumsily try to evade the enemy. Picking up a gun could switch to a woozily swaying, awkward first person view; your character pants and curses under their breath, tries firing the gun with the safety on, almost always misses when they do successfully fire and generally your view of the action becomes disoriented after doing so, as the kickback from the gun jerks the character around. Maybe sometimes you accidentally pick up a hot gun by the barrel, don't know how to reload them, etc. There could be a lot of fun tension behind being a great hacker who is just totally incompetent at violence.

Unfortunately if you read the RPS story they seem to be committed to the idea of it being a game where you spend a lot of time shooting, it just depends on how many civilians are around when you start shooting. I wonder if after hearing people go "your game looks great, but why all the gunplay?" for the next six months they might start rethinking their plan.

After all, why did they make such a big deal about him getting a gun smuggled to him if every bad guy is going to be heavily armed and "shoot man" is just going to be the main way you interact with them.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



Man, I'm wondering how the "AR personal knowledge" thing can actually work. Does that mean that everyone you encounter is going to have some facet of information, like "HIV Positive" and "Guilty of Plagarism", that is persistent within the game? Because that sounds like it's going to eat a lot of memory.

I know most free-roam games (going off the Saints Row games) are built were NPCs just respawn out of visual range. Unless it's Bethesda, who've been known to named persistent NPCs, with their own routines and quirks, throughout their games. I can't see having a city of people with their own autonomous routines and personal data that can be exploited being that large or that populated.

Shalebridge Cradle
Apr 23, 2008


Young Freud posted:

Man, I'm wondering how the "AR personal knowledge" thing can actually work. Does that mean that everyone you encounter is going to have some facet of information, like "HIV Positive" and "Guilty of Plagarism", that is persistent within the game? Because that sounds like it's going to eat a lot of memory.

I know most free-roam games (going off the Saints Row games) are built were NPCs just respawn out of visual range. Unless it's Bethesda, who've been known to named persistent NPCs, with their own routines and quirks, throughout their games. I can't see having a city of people with their own autonomous routines and personal data that can be exploited being that large or that populated.

Its set in Chicago not Cyrodil, there are literally millions of people in that city. Its going to be like saints row spawning NPCs in visual range except drawing from a database of random embarassing information to superimpose over their heads.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



Shalebridge Cradle posted:

Its set in Chicago not Cyrodil, there are literally millions of people in that city. Its going to be like saints row spawning NPCs in visual range except drawing from a database of random embarassing information to superimpose over their heads.

That's what I'm saying. The thing is, the RPS interview suggest that you can follow that "Plagarist" woman, find her laptop, then hack it to find evidence of her repeating her plagarism and then blackmail her. That's a bit beyond "superimposing random embarrassing data over their heads".

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

*smokes vigorously*

Young Freud posted:

That's what I'm saying. The thing is, the RPS interview suggest that you can follow that "Plagarist" woman, find her laptop, then hack it to find evidence of her repeating her plagarism and then blackmail her. That's a bit beyond "superimposing random embarrassing data over their heads".

I'm gonna be bold here and say that that's a Molyneux-grade daydream on the part of the developers at best, or plain ol' marketing at worst.

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009

All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.


mysterious frankie posted:

I'm gonna be bold here and say that that's a Molyneux-grade daydream on the part of the developers at best, or plain ol' marketing at worst.

I don't think it sounds that far-fetched, but it probably means that every mission like that is going to be nearly identical, with the text/speech switched out. Maybe they'll have different subcategories of sidemissions like Assassin's Creed.

Role Play McMurphy
Jul 15, 2010


Seems pretty obvious that there will be a distinction between NPCs in an important story location and those randoms out on the streets.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008
HAMDOGS: Like staring into the Flame of God

I think people are being really harsh on what is a teaser, not a demo. Making demos for shows like this is a giant pain in the rear end, especially when your game is so far away from release. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to focus on getting just a single thread of this mission functioning, get the UI to not be filled with developer nonsense, and to be sure that things don't crash or bug out. You should never treat things like this as the actual product, good or bad, when you've still got a year to go.

Bleusilences
Jun 23, 2004

Be careful for what you wish for.


I bet this game is like 1313, it's for the next gen hardware where there will be more RAM.

Bleusilences fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2012 around 16:25

Shalebridge Cradle
Apr 23, 2008


Young Freud posted:

That's what I'm saying. The thing is, the RPS interview suggest that you can follow that "Plagarist" woman, find her laptop, then hack it to find evidence of her repeating her plagarism and then blackmail her. That's a bit beyond "superimposing random embarrassing data over their heads".

Oh I didn't see that. Maybe thats a just a poorly explained sidequest/diversion mechanic, but thats sounds suspiciously like a pre-release Fable story.

Emong
May 31, 2011

perpair to be annihilated


Young Freud posted:

That's what I'm saying. The thing is, the RPS interview suggest that you can follow that "Plagarist" woman, find her laptop, then hack it to find evidence of her repeating her plagarism and then blackmail her. That's a bit beyond "superimposing random embarrassing data over their heads".

It'll probably just be something like if you follow an NPC with the Plagiarist tag around for a while, they'll eventually pull out a laptop/go to a cybercafe and use a computer or something and you can grab the evidence from there.

Spiky Ooze
Oct 27, 2005


Morpheus posted:

I think people are being really harsh on what is a teaser, not a demo.

Well a lot of the jadedness is about the state of gaming in general.

I mean every open world sandbox game is pretty much the same thing, especially if it has console roots.

There's the storyline aspect that tries to be dramatic but progressively seems like it's occurring on a different planet than the game. (People often get bored and quit the game halfway for this very reason.)

Then there's the open world which is some kind of surreal nightmare of interaction limitations. You can run people over but you can't open a door. You have a good number of ways to shoot people dead, but not of learning anything from the game world about them (except for pull-my-string style vocals), or social hacking them for your benefit. Cops will get mad at you for 12 seconds... but then forgive you, instead of you needing you know a disguise or an underground life. Your character is essentially a god, and a dick one, and since we've had that experience in dozens of games it's a cliche.

While we should be hoping for something like Tex Murphy meets Deus Ex in a game like this... most of us are just being honest that we expect the developer to simply load it up with conventions and add a small handful of hacking options to that.

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

Emong posted:

It'll probably just be something like if you follow an NPC with the Plagiarist tag around for a while, they'll eventually pull out a laptop/go to a cybercafe and use a computer or something and you can grab the evidence from there.

Yeah, it sounds like certain tags might lead to little side missions.

Would be neat if you had to go to a cybercafe or use a computer to do bigger hacks, like shutting down sections of the power grid or something.

Catsplosion
Aug 19, 2007

I am become Dwarf, the destroyer of cats.


I missed all of the E3 stuff this year but just watched the trailer for this and oh gently caress looks like my wallet is going to be empty this year too. drat you video games!

I couldn't believe this was a Ubisoft game, it just looks and feels like a R* game.

Catsplosion fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2012 around 16:01

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



Irish Taxi Driver posted:

Yeah, it sounds like certain tags might lead to little side missions.

This is kinda what I'm hoping that the AR pop-ups will do. But, if everyone has it, how are you going to separate the wheat from the chaff? The guy whose HIV+ or had his loans denied might have equally exploitable missions as the plagiarist. I know that the "teaches krav maga" and "military experience" pop-ups can be used to denote threats.

Really, it seems like an almost impossible to achieve gameplay element, at least with current technology. I'll probably follow this, but they better have something that's playable than what everyone suspects is a pre-rendered tech demo.

Incredulous Dylan
Oct 22, 2004

parachute
photograph
spaghetti


Mordaedil posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4KO2eQeLJ8

The first minute here.

I am seriously disturbed by this.

I remember loading up Splinter Cell for Xbox and having to sit around and think of how to distract guards and move in the shadows. I miss that. This is nothing like what the series is about . Also nothing better than hearing "journalists" hollering like idiots to cheer on the products they are supposed to objectively evaluate. Gotta make sure we get some whoops in when some middle eastern guy gets knifed

Incredulous Dylan fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2012 around 16:01

Dr. Stab
Sep 12, 2010


Young Freud posted:

This is kinda what I'm hoping that the AR pop-ups will do. But, if everyone has it, how are you going to separate the wheat from the chaff? The guy whose HIV+ or had his loans denied might have equally exploitable missions as the plagiarist. I know that the "teaches krav maga" and "military experience" pop-ups can be used to denote threats.

Really, it seems like an almost impossible to achieve gameplay element, at least with current technology. I'll probably follow this, but they better have something that's playable than what everyone suspects is a pre-rendered tech demo.

It looked like it wasn't everybody. Just certain people.

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

Young Freud posted:

This is kinda what I'm hoping that the AR pop-ups will do. But, if everyone has it, how are you going to separate the wheat from the chaff? The guy whose HIV+ or had his loans denied might have equally exploitable missions as the plagiarist. I know that the "teaches krav maga" and "military experience" pop-ups can be used to denote threats.

Really, it seems like an almost impossible to achieve gameplay element, at least with current technology. I'll probably follow this, but they better have something that's playable than what everyone suspects is a pre-rendered tech demo.

They could probably change the background color (for the ones that lead to extra things) like the red they used for violence probability. I'm thinking of this like the pickpocketing stuff in AC2, except maybe you use your phone to do a hacking minigame on their PDA and download the info or something.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010



Young Freud posted:

This is kinda what I'm hoping that the AR pop-ups will do. But, if everyone has it, how are you going to separate the wheat from the chaff? The guy whose HIV+ or had his loans denied might have equally exploitable missions as the plagiarist. I know that the "teaches krav maga" and "military experience" pop-ups can be used to denote threats.

Really, it seems like an almost impossible to achieve gameplay element, at least with current technology. I'll probably follow this, but they better have something that's playable than what everyone suspects is a pre-rendered tech demo.

I don't know in what crazy way you are visualizing this but to me it seems simple: some types of tags will be highlighted, and you will click in the right stick or press the U key or whatever to start a "blackmail" or a "data stealing" mission. But even if every NPC had missions tied to them, it doesn't seem unreasonable that you would just start a generic mission where you follow that NPC for a while until it goes to a bank or apartment building, hack objective X, mission complete. I doubt every single NPC will have a unique mission type, home, routine, likes, dislikes, etc.

keyframe
Sep 15, 2007

I have seen things

Yea that has Molyneux levels of bullshit written all over it.

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

I'm an annoying drama queen fuckass with an online videogame grudge, but I still love Starfleet Dental

Catsplosion posted:

I missed all of the E3 stuff this year but just watched the trailer for this and oh gently caress looks like my wallet is going to be empty this year too. drat you video games!

I couldn't believe this was a Ubisoft game, it just looks and feels like a R* game.

It looks and feels like a flashy Assassin's Creed engine with better lighting, textures, weather effects, and clothing animation, with a hacking setup instead of stabbing people in the throat.*



*- You may get to stab people in the throat in this.

Role Play McMurphy
Jul 15, 2010


You people have totally warped what was said in order to create high expectations/grand promises you're already let down by. There's really no reason to think that they can't have sidequests that are triggered by profiling certain NPCs but you've turned it into EVERY NPC HAS A UNIQUE BACKSTORY AND TRAITS AND ROUTINES AND YOU CAN STALK EVERY ONE AND LEARN THE SECRETS OF THEIR FAMILY TREE

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story

the black husserl posted:

After the torturefest Splinter Cell Demo and surprise sex QTE tomb raider, I don't think this is hyperbole.

Ok we saw the Splinter cell one, but what the hell is going on in Tomb Raider?

evilmiera
Dec 14, 2009

Status:Perpetually fearful

Might just be that certain missions, once started, allow you to corner particularly interesting NPCs within their specific target area. Outside of those missions you will at best see a few proper sub-missions with generic/spawned mini-missions on the side (that will let you earn some sort of resource that lets you commit hacks and whatnot).

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Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

Groo?

~SMcD

the black husserl posted:

I was disturbed by the begging and pleading guy from the demo. Not going to play the game if I have to slaughter innocents that cry when their loved ones get shot.

That's the point. At least, from what I gathered, reading HEAVILY into what was shown, it's supposed to invoke an emotional reaction the the player so you DON'T act like an utter sociopath. This isn't supposed to be the GTA where you drive down the street speed-bumping people while listening to Weasel News.

Similar aesthetic to GTA 4, but different genre. I like it. I'm going to be watching this game with great interest.

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