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Crutches
Aug 21, 2005

smile...

Getting really drunk and wandering into the wrong college apartment when they all look similar sounds easier than getting really drunk and walking 3/4 of a mile into the wrong home.

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Kaji
Oct 30, 2002

The Crossdressing Cop with the .45

What if it was one of those cases where the intruder was someone without a phone seeking help and gets blasted.

MikeyB
Jan 25, 2006
Hehe

Mr.48 posted:

The simple action of locking the door would have served as a good way of determining whether someone is truly breaking into your home. gently caress, the only reason the girl drunkenly got in there in the first place was that the door was open. In other words, the homeowners are morons, but not necessarily evil.

Yeah I know, when I leave my windows open and my sliding glass door open to enjoy the evening breeze as it comes through my house, I'm really putting out a sign that says, "Everyone come on in; there's a party".

Jabbu
Aug 1, 2005

GODWIN'S LAW? WHAT THE FUCK IS GODWIN'S LAW YOU FUCKING CRYPTO-NAZI? WHY DON'T YOU STOP RAPING CHILDREN FOR FIVE MINUTES, PUT DOWN THAT GLASS OF PUPPY BLOOD AND JUST ADMIT THAT YOU'RE A FUCKING MONSTER

Kaji posted:

What if it was one of those cases where the intruder was someone without a phone seeking help and gets blasted.

Sounds like their troubles would be over and thus helped.

MikeyB
Jan 25, 2006
Hehe

Kaji posted:

What if it was one of those cases where the intruder was someone without a phone seeking help and gets blasted.

Someone should invent a button you can press that would make a sound throughout the whole house... we'll call it a doorbell. What do you think?

Lime Water
Aug 2, 2010





"Well, it coulda been a real ugly situation, but I managed to shoot him in the spine."

Modern Day Hercules
Apr 26, 2008


MikeyB posted:

Yeah I know, when I leave my windows open and my sliding glass door open to enjoy the evening breeze as it comes through my house, I'm really putting out a sign that says, "Everyone come on in; there's a party".

Actually your sign reads "Come on in; I'd love the chance to shoot a fellow human being legally."

HondaRider271
Jul 19, 2007
What pisses me off is the whole Of Mice and Men thing that was pulled. "Oh don't worry Lenny, nothing is gonna happen" "Will there be rabbits?" "Yeah you can take care of the rabbits " Then bam shotgun to the head.

It's not as if you could have been forthright and said "yeah we may have to demod you, here's the discussion if you'd like to represent yourself." Or at least waited for a reply so I could say "fuck no don't tell them I stepped down, that's bullshit." No, just throw me under the bus in hopes it will calm people down, say nothing at all while people are on their witchhunt, then decide in secret to remove me as a mod and tell people I stepped down. Great, what a wonderful experience this has been. Far be it from me to expect perhaps a courtesy PM asking for my input. Perhaps I would have agreed to step down in a public fashion, that wouldn't look so incriminating and terrible. Or perhaps we could have figured something out that would result in a punishment/ban but not a de


Modern Day Hercules posted:

PCP and meth are kind of illegal and alcohol isn't. Sorry you're not into it, but we tried it your way and it wasn't great. PCP also makes you super strong and good at punching and alcohol makes you good at dancing and singing to songs you don't know the words to, which is less dangerous in a lot of ways.

"We" never tried legalizing drugs, and you have no idea what PCP is or does. Please point to a time in history that would back up your claim that "it wasn't great."

Also alcohol makes people super strong and good at punching much more consistently and effectively than PCP, I'll tell you right now.


On topic, I can't believe these stupid fucks leave their door unlocked, and then their first reaction to a "bump in the night" is to loving shoot in the dark! I'm all for reasonable self-defense, but this just isn't. The girl shouldn't be wandering into random people's houses drunk, but she doesn't deserve to be shot.

And now that she has been, she certainly doesn't deserve to be charged with felony trespass, that's just loving sick.

Ruddha
Jan 21, 2006

when you realize how cool and retarded everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky

Modern Day Hercules posted:

Actually your sign reads "Come on in; I'd love the chance to shoot a fellow human being legally."

Yeah, these people probably were thinking exactly that, when a person they don't know came into their home and refused to leave when shouted at. They probably got seriously boned up in their nighties man. Now that is paper.

Robo Reagan
Feb 12, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


You can take the moral high ground as much as you'd like, but I'd probably freak the gently caress out if there was someone rummaging around in the bedroom of my secluded house at 3 am too. It's a lovely situation, but you guys are assuming everyone is rational and a-okay to run away if there's a break in.

Infidel Castro
Jun 8, 2010

WHATCHA GONNA DO, BROTHER?!


Kaji posted:

What if it was one of those cases where the intruder was someone without a phone seeking help and gets blasted.

Unless the person was deaf, I'm fairly sure they would have responded to the homeowner wanting to know who the gently caress was in his house.

Crutches
Aug 21, 2005

smile...

Robo Reagan posted:

You can take the moral high ground as much as you'd like, but I'd probably freak the gently caress out if there was someone rummaging around in the bedroom of my secluded house at 3 am too

Even if it was a cute drunk girl?

I'm kidding. I'd probably pee myself if I heard someone break into my home. Which is why I don't currently own a gun and would probably just call the cops.

jabby
Oct 27, 2010


Locking your door should be a requirement for claiming you had to shoot someone who came into your house. Not taking the slimmest precautions to prevent someone from entering then jumping immediately to lethal force should be illegal.

Gringo Heisenberg
May 29, 2009



Jesus, my grandma woke up at 6 in the morning once and found a drunk guy laying passed out on her couch. All she did was wake him up and tell him he was in the wrong place and he got up, apologized profusely, and left. There are some paranoid people out there.

Jabbu
Aug 1, 2005

GODWIN'S LAW? WHAT THE FUCK IS GODWIN'S LAW YOU FUCKING CRYPTO-NAZI? WHY DON'T YOU STOP RAPING CHILDREN FOR FIVE MINUTES, PUT DOWN THAT GLASS OF PUPPY BLOOD AND JUST ADMIT THAT YOU'RE A FUCKING MONSTER

What if the girl wandered into a frat house and a frat boy raped her in self defense? What then? This isn't so black and white.

T.J.Brooker
Sep 29, 2008


When I was a student I lived in one house on a street of terraces, each house was pretty similar the ones next to it inside and out. Anyway, one day I woke up in the middle of the night to hear the sound of my back door slamming. Being a paranoid type I got out of bed, fished around in my drawers for a torch and crept downstairs. When I reached the kitchen I saw a guy who I didn't recognise bending over the sink and drinking out of the tap. Thinking that he was probably not a threat I shouted at him to get the gently caress out of my house (at that point we were on a water-meter as well which made me really pissed off with him). I should stress here that at no point did I shoot him. When he looked up I could see he was as shocked as I was. I turned on the light and he was dressed in hot pants and a vest and covered in day-glo paint.

It turned out he'd been on a night out and become incredibly drunk and, living nearby, had become confused about which house was his. I was pretty relieved as you can imagine and we ended up having a pretty cool chat over a cup of coffee which sobered him up enough to apologise to me and talk about the course he was taking (european politics and economics). Everything was going well until I got up to go to the bathroom, when I got back I realised he'd run off and taken a bag of basmati rice with him from my cupboard. I was absolutely furious and with hindsight I wish I had shot him.

I think there's a moral here for people on both sides of the fence in this discussion.

Modern Day Hercules
Apr 26, 2008


Crutches posted:

Even if it was a cute drunk girl?

I'm kidding. I'd probably pee myself if I heard someone break into my home. Which is why I don't currently own a gun and would probably just call the cops.

By the time the cops come, you and your family will be killed to death and your home will legally belong to the intruder. Sorry.

Robo Reagan
Feb 12, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


Crutches posted:

Even if it was a cute drunk girl?

I'm kidding. I'd probably pee myself if I heard someone break into my home. Which is why I don't currently own a gun and would probably just call the cops.

We live like five miles from the police station and it still took the cops about ten minutes to get to us when this kid's dad beat the poo poo out of my when I was twelve

finaleph
Oct 11, 2011



quote:

He isn't being charged with a crime thanks to Colorado's Make My Day law
Isn't that a quote from a movie scene where people have already been shooting at each other and one is holding a hostage? It doesn't seem like a name for a law that applies when drunk people stumble into your house.

Noahdraron
Jun 1, 2011

God Loves Ugly


MikeyB posted:

It must be great living in your world where when someone breaks into your home you feel safe to turn on the lights and confront them. Welcome to the real world. If someone broke into my house I'd shoot them. I wouldn't put myself or my family in possible harms way to help save the life of a person who is already breaking the law and threatening me and my family.

And to those of you who blame the homeowners for not locking the doors, I remind you that the doors don't have to be locked for it to still be B&E.

Ah yes, the real world. Where everyone is a crazed psychopath drug addict and burglars break into your home not to steal your stuff but to kill you and your family. That's also why they like to break into homes when someone is actually there, not when people are on vacation or at work. Truly those outrageous statistics of millions of people killed this way every year is reason enough to shoot everyone in sight. Who knows, they might be zombies if they don't answer. Or worse, foreigners!
It must be stressful to lead such a fearful life.

An Enormous Boner
Jul 12, 2009


jabby posted:

Locking your door should be a requirement for claiming you had to shoot someone who came into your house. Not taking the slimmest precautions to prevent someone from entering then jumping immediately to lethal force should be illegal.

This is the "hell, with those clothes on, she was practically asking for it" of home invasion.

Ruddha
Jan 21, 2006

when you realize how cool and retarded everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky

Noahdraron posted:

Ah yes, the real world. Where everyone is a crazed psychopath drug addict and burglars break into your home not to steal your stuff but to kill you and your family. That's also why they like to break into homes when someone is actually there, not when people are on vacation or at work. Truly those outrageous statistics of millions of people killed this way every year is reason enough to shoot everyone in sight. Who knows, they might be zombies if they don't answer. Or worse, foreigners!
It must be stressful to lead such a fearful life.

Seriously. It's f*cking ret*rded to be scared when someone breaks into your home at 3 in the morning and refuses to leave.

Cthulu Carl
Apr 16, 2006

You need to click the icon.


Jabbu posted:

What if the girl wandered into a frat house and a frat boy raped her in self defense? What then? This isn't so black and white.

He's be protected under Colorado's "Make My Horribly Misguided Wet Dream" Statute.

TheUnhorse
Oct 28, 2010

Smartest little intel sperg in the whole world


Gringo Heisenberg posted:

Jesus, my grandma woke up at 6 in the morning once and found a drunk guy laying passed out on her couch. All she did was wake him up and tell him he was in the wrong place and he got up, apologized profusely, and left. There are some paranoid people out there.

Your grandmother is pretty loving stupid and so are you I guess is what this anecdote is saying?

The Human Crouton
Sep 20, 2002

THRESHOLD!!!



Gringo Heisenberg posted:

Jesus, my grandma woke up at 6 in the morning once and found a drunk guy laying passed out on her couch. All she did was wake him up and tell him he was in the wrong place and he got up, apologized profusely, and left. There are some paranoid people out there.

There's a difference between waking up and finding someone asleep in your house, and being woken up by someone breaking into your house. It's a pretty significant difference: probably enough of a difference that you should be ashamed of yourself for comparing them the way you did.

Modern Day Hercules
Apr 26, 2008


Ruder posted:

f*cking ret*rded

Who are you Ruder than? Mr. Rodgers?

TheSpiritFox
Jan 4, 2009

I'm just a memory, I can't give you any new information.



Cthulu Carl posted:

Maybe I just think people who panic and don't act rationally also should have firearms?

Honestly, in all the shooting threads that have popped up recently, it's seems like that belief bears out.

When was the last time you were faced with an unknown and potentially deadly threat to family, probably including a minor child, which would allow you to know yourself exactly how you'd react in such a situation?

If you'd ever actually been in that kind of situation and had any self awareness at all you'd realize that absent genuine training (probably of a military nature) that there is no way to personally predict what will send a person into a panic or how they will react in that state until it has happened at least once.

So, if you HAD actually ever been in a situation that made others panic and you did not, it's likely that it was because that was just your natural reaction. Your own, personal reaction which you cannot logically expect to hold others to because no one will naturally react the same way you did.

Bottom line this post is arrogant as poo poo and pretty ignorant of how people actually work. It's full to the brim of " I wouldn't do something like this so you shouldn't either" and I doubt you actually have any experience which would even allow you to know that you wouldn't react that way.

Cthulu Carl posted:

He's be protected under Colorado's "Make My Horribly Misguided Wet Dream" Statute.

Yeah you're pretty much an arrogant idiot looking down upon the plebeians from your throne on Sitting-At-My-Computer-Posting-Bullshit mountain.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010
i hated your big dumb ugly macklemore av so i changed it

well cya

Wine In Winter posted:



I think the main issue here is why young women feel the need to get blasted out of their minds. For one thing, it puts a petite girl like this in a very vulnerable position.


Because getting blasted out of your mind is really fun. It's not exactly rocket science.

T.J.Brooker
Sep 29, 2008


TheUnhorse posted:

Your grandmother is pretty loving stupid and so are you I guess is what this anecdote is saying?

What would you say the percentage is of actions you would shoot someone for as compared to actions you wouldn't shout them for? 50? Or nearer to 73?

Safe and Secure!
Jun 14, 2008

OFFICIAL SA THREAD RUINER
SPRING 2013


An Enormous Boner posted:

This is the "hell, with those clothes on, she was practically asking for it" of home invasion.

It's not.

Not locking your door does not mean you deserve to be stolen from. However, if you want to protect your property with lethal force, instead of running away, I see no reason why you shouldn't be required to also protect it with non-lethal force. For the same reason we usually use locks to protect our doors instead of landmines.

I'm not seeing how "leave door unlocked, use gun as first line of defense" is any different from "leave door unlocked, put landmine under welcome mat, tell invited company not to step on welcome mat".

I'm also not seeing how the second home defense strategy would be considered reasonable by any sane person.

Ruddha
Jan 21, 2006

when you realize how cool and retarded everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky

Modern Day Hercules posted:

Who are you Ruder than? Mr. Rodgers?

Sorry, Fre*king.

Cpt. Spring Types
Feb 19, 2004

Wait, what?

An Enormous Boner posted:

This is the "hell, with those clothes on, she was practically asking for it" of home invasion.

Except leaving your house unlocked in the middle of the night kind of IS asking to be entered by randoms, even if it never happens (because it still could). I live in a safe neighborhood and keep my doors locked all the time. When I was a kid, I lived in a safe neighborhood in a safe town and some crazy drunk lady came pounding on our (locked) door in the middle of the night, screaming and breaking things on it and such.

poo poo happens, and a locked door and a phone to call the police is a much more reasonable defense than leaving the door unlocked and having a gun nearby.

Gringo Heisenberg
May 29, 2009



TheUnhorse posted:

Your grandmother is pretty loving stupid and so are you I guess is what this anecdote is saying?

Or maybe she realized that people get drunk and poo poo happens, he's probably not a super murder rapist laying in wait. And when you've got a gun versus a small woman like the people in the OP, what exactly are you afraid of?

Ruddha
Jan 21, 2006

when you realize how cool and retarded everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky

Cpt. Spring Types posted:

Except leaving your house unlocked in the middle of the night kind of IS asking to be entered by randoms, even if it never happens (because it still could). I live in a safe neighborhood and keep my doors locked all the time. When I was a kid, I lived in a safe neighborhood in a safe town and some crazy drunk lady came pounding on our door in the middle of the night, screaming and breaking things on it and such.

poo poo happens, and a locked door and a phone to call the police is a much more reasonable defense than leaving the door unlocked and having a gun nearby.

Lustful Man Hugs
Jul 18, 2010


An Enormous Boner posted:

This is the "hell, with those clothes on, she was practically asking for it" of home invasion.

Except, locking your door actually does prevent home invasion. Whereas the 'she was asking for it' shtick is both statistically and logically bullshit.

mynnna
Jan 10, 2004

hth


You know, I read this story a week ago and there's a minor point missing from the original links which explains why the owner may have felt like opening fire was prudent.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented...ommented-sports

quote:

Justice and Orion are both psychiatrists. They haven't spoken publicly about the shooting.

According to a 1999 online article in Psychiatric News, Orion was stalked for at least a decade by a schizophrenic woman she treated briefly at an Arizona hospital. The article said the woman even followed her to Colorado and moved into the same Boulder neighborhood.

Colorado court records show that a restraining order was issued in 1994, prohibiting a Denver woman, who was then 42, from coming within 50 yards of Orion's office, home or car. The reasons for the restraining order -- or whether it was connected to the stalking case -- were not clear.

His wife had had at least one, possibly two cases of stalkers in the past. I'm not saying that SYG laws ("Make My Day" is just the law's nickname, by the way) are necessarily a good thing, but their motives in this case are more understandable and probably not the "Man I always wanted to shoot someone!" everyone seems to be assuming.

E: That said they definitely should lock their doors, especially in a college town. Town I grew up in, whatever, we left poo poo unlocked. If I lived in Boulder, Fort Collins or (as I do now) Denver, you loving bet I lock my poo poo.

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010


Future laws people will get legally shot under:

-The Let God Sort Them Out Law (allows the shooting if the shooter can prove they attend church)
-The Only Good Muslim is a Dead Muslim Law (allows the shooting of any muslim who dares to look a man in the eye)
-The If They Were So Innocent Then How Come They're Dead? Law (allows the shooting of anyone provided the shooting kills them)
-The Credible Threat Law (If you tell someone "acrediblethreadsayswhat" and they answer with "what?", you can shoot them)

An Enormous Boner
Jul 12, 2009


I'm not arguing that leaving your house unlocked isn't anything but completely stupid, but what I am arguing is that the person who invades a home is wholly responsible for it. Reminder that this was in response to a person who said it should be illegal to shoot someone who breaks into your house unless you lock your doors -- that's what I was talking about.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

One of the most pathetic aspects of human history is that every civilization expresses itself most pretentiously when the decay which leads its to death has already begun


Whatever happened to asking people to leave first before you shoot them? American concepts of private property and human rights are seriously hosed up.

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Gringo Heisenberg
May 29, 2009



An Enormous Boner posted:

I'm not arguing that leaving your house unlocked isn't anything but completely stupid, but what I am arguing is that the person who invades a home is wholly responsible for it. Reminder that this was in response to a person who said it should be illegal to shoot someone who breaks into your house unless you lock your doors -- that's what I was talking about.

I can't speak for the guy who posted that, but taking that view point (the guy who posted about locking the doors) it would be a bit weird to be so concerned about your safety at home that you keep a gun in the night table, but don't lock the doors.

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