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Thundercracker posted:Wasn't there a case where an angry killed a child molestor, only to find out it was the wrong guy? Generally speaking, I have a blanket veto against vigilantism. For every case some criminal "had it coming" you'll see another case like Zimmerman. A mob killed a pediatrician because they thought his title was how you spelled pedophile. Yeah but in this case it's utterly completely and utterly justified. He walked in on his daughter getting raped. Yeah send him to jail if he did it like ten years afterwards, but not when he's trying to defend his goddamned daughter from getting raped by a child molester. gently caress the Sheriff for not saying "Hell no" when asked if the father should get charged with anything.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:27 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 22:50 |
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assfro posted:Beating someone so badly that they die on the scene is deadly force, and barring that the deceased was killed accidentally in one or two blows, it seems that the father intended to respond with deadly force. Undermining the reasonableness element of the defense, if the guy is on the ground getting his brains bashed in by the father, the reasonableness of the father's belief that he needed to keep swinging to protect his daughter begins to erode, as she is no longer in apprehension of harm. That's not to say a jury wouldn't find for the guy, or acquit him on other grounds (or even on no grounds) - or even that the case will be brought. This is nice and all but when you are seeing your child suffer from sexual abuse right in front of you, you aren't really thinking about 'he is now no longer a danger and the law says...'. Expecting a father to respond reasonably after witnessing that is absurd. "Temporary insanity" might be the legal term, but "Parental Rage" might be a more appropriate one.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:29 |
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I don't know what I'm talking about, but it seems to me that most(edit: many?) humans have kind of a parental rage switch that comes on and makes you an absolute badass for the sake of your children. I imagine it's the same mechanism that might let a mother lift, you know, a car off her kid or something. It's not the same as someone lashing out in anger, I don't think. I'm not a parent but I do have a little brother who I looked after a lot. I remember seeing red one day because these two much bigger boys were shoving him around behind a church. I can remember coming around the corner about 20 feet away, then being there, then a lot of wild swinging and shoving that resulted in both boys running away. And that's not even comparable to this story. I imagine this whole situation with the deceased lasted a matter of seconds, which is not nearly enough time to gain composure if you've gone into a fugue after finding your daughter being hosed with.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:30 |
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assfro posted:Beating someone so badly that they die on the scene is deadly force, and barring that the deceased was killed accidentally in one or two blows, it seems that the father intended to respond with deadly force. quote:Undermining the reasonableness element of the defense, if the guy is on the ground getting his brains bashed in by the father, the reasonableness of the father's belief that he needed to keep swinging to protect his daughter begins to erode, as she is no longer in apprehension of harm. e: See also the two posts immediately above this one. There are a lot of mitigating circumstances here which provide not only legal justification for the man's actions but also sympathetic diversions from a conviction even if he were legally at fault.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:31 |
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Thundercracker posted:^^^I'm not talking about punch dad. Oh, no, it's not like he brought a camera, the perp was in chains and being walked by cops IIRC. It's somewhere on liveleak
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:33 |
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Undead Unicorn posted:gently caress the Sheriff for not saying "Hell no" when asked if the father should get charged with anything.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:33 |
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Hold on guys - we need to know what she was wearing before we can have an informed discussion about this.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:33 |
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Nietzschean posted:Wouldn't such a response be both premature and unprofessional? Taken as it is the story seems to be very cut and dry, but it is entirely within the realm of possibility that the story initially presented varies widely from what an investigation will reveal to be the truth.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:34 |
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Seriously, one or two strong punches can kill a man. They can cause concussions, a swell in blood pressure, aneurysm due to swelling of the brain. It could have been a very short encounter.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:34 |
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redmercer posted:Oh, no, it's not like he brought a camera, the perp was in chains and being walked by cops IIRC. It's somewhere on liveleak Wow, that's just straight out murder then.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:35 |
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Anosmoman posted:Hold on guys - we need to know what she was wearing before we can have an informed discussion about this. "Also her sexual history. Was she the type of hussy who gave out valentine cards to multiple boys in her kindergarten class? How many hands has she held? Does she have cooties?" Reddit Nietzschean posted:Wouldn't such a response be both premature and unprofessional? Taken as it is the story seems to be very cut and dry, but it is entirely within the realm of possibility that the story initially presented varies widely from what an investigation will reveal to be the truth. If that was the response he gave instead of "lol, I dunno" then yeah.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:36 |
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I think a major point you are all missing is that there were blows to the head AND neck. Sure it is hard to kill someone by just hitting their head but it is much easier killing by blows to the throat.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:38 |
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Leon Einstein posted:A party. Hahaha second time for you in this thread, nice.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:45 |
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Jackson1160 posted:I think a major point you are all missing is that there were blows to the head AND neck. Sure it is hard to kill someone by just hitting their head but it is much easier killing by blows to the throat.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:46 |
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From what I learned in EMT training, facial injuries are very serious. Lots of bloodflow in the face and head, and if broken facial bones, even slight, can result in a great deal of bleeding. Unless you get to a hospital quickly, you will definitely die from those injuries.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:47 |
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I can't see how it would be possible to walk into a situation like that and think anything other than I'm going to punch this man in the face so many times that he dies of being punched in the face. He deserves a slap on the wrist, but if you're at a party and sneak into the homeowners house to play doctor with his 4 year old in Texas, you're practically planning to die that day.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:48 |
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Undead Unicorn posted:"Also her sexual history. Was she the type of hussy who gave out valentine cards to multiple boys in her kindergarten class? Many hands has she held? Does she have cooties?" Reddit Reddit has plenty of "we don't know the full story" posts. Most people are saying he's a hero but I can't find the men's rights post on this.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:50 |
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Jackson1160 posted:I think a major point you are all missing is that there were blows to the head AND neck. Sure it is hard to kill someone by just hitting their head but it is much easier killing by blows to the throat. When you are in the middle of a battle you can't exactly aim your punches. The dude was probably fighting back.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:50 |
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Pretty sure charging a man for defending his daughter would be the lowest of the low. Once you're caught in the act of molestation(In Texas, by the mans father), your life is forfeit. I'm sure the pedo knew after the first punch what was going to happen. Nobody would prosecute this man, unless they want to be seen as a pedo sympathizer.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:52 |
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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K. Farb posted:Reddit has plenty of "we don't know the full story" posts. Most people are saying he's a hero but I can't find the men's rights post on this.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:53 |
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I would literally punch a hole through the head of anyone that hosed my child. A hole. Fist sized. That man should get no jail time, no probation, or his name in the paper. Just let him be.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:57 |
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I think it would be better if the guy didn't die, but it's really hard to see (as presented, mind) this as being intentional murder or really anything deserving strict punishment. Someone sexually assaulting your four year old daughter is going to make all but the worst of parents do something. Especially considering the poor girl's already had enough awful poo poo happen to her, she really doesn't need her father being taken away as well.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:59 |
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What if that pedo was about to reveal a cure for cancer or was Jesus? What then, goons?
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:59 |
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Hogburto posted:What if that pedo was about to reveal a cure for cancer or was Jesus? What then, goons? We'd crucify him, obviously.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:00 |
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Hogburto posted:What if that pedo was about to reveal a cure for cancer or was Jesus? What then, goons? "jesus touched me in a wonderful place"
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:06 |
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Wicker Man posted:From what I learned in EMT training, facial injuries are very serious. Lots of bloodflow in the face and head, and if broken facial bones, even slight, can result in a great deal of bleeding. I've read more than one personal account on the forums of people dying from a single punch/blow to the head. Unfortunately, these accounts were about a goon's best friend or brother 
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:06 |
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I, personally, try to always filter stuff like this as level-headed as possible so that if ever unfortunate enough to be in a bad position, I never fall prey to revenge or overcome-rage based mentality. As a human, I can definitely understand how it can happen, but I try to completely restrain any barbaric tendencies across the board. The whole thing is unfortunate, and it's hosed up that the guy died, but there aren't enough details to make a real judgment about the exact situation.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:06 |
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I have three daughters, and I cannot say for certain that my reaction to the same situation would be to beat the man to death. I'd sure as hell give it my best loving effort, however. And when I was too tired to continue, my wife would probably finish for me.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:07 |
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Frankly, I'm surprised by the father's restraint. Most parents I know would keep hitting the corpse until the cops would need to check the pedophile's dental records. Putting this man on trial would be a waste of time. It may be proper, but you don't need to be a psychic to predict the verdict. This is about as justifiable as beating someone to death gets.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:07 |
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Putting this man on trial would be a waste of time. It may be proper, but you don't need to be a psychic to predict the verdict. This is about as justifiable as beating someone to death gets. I agree with you, but the point the opposition here likely wishes to make is that beating someone to death is never justifiable.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:09 |
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Undead Unicorn posted:A mob killed a pediatrician because they thought his title was how you spelled pedophile. Not quite. They painted the word "Paedo" on the house the doctor was living in. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/a...tection.society
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:09 |
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Wade Wilson posted:We'd crucify him, obviously. I'm sorry God was the man who got a 14 year old pregnant, not Jesus. Chromis posted:Not quite. They painted the word "Paedo" on the house the doctor was living in. Ah, whatever I half forgot the story.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:10 |
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I have a god-daughter. 8 months old. Love her to death. Cant say I would not have done the same as the father.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:11 |
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Nietzschean posted:I agree with you, but the point the opposition here likely wishes to make is that beating someone to death is never justifiable. I don't think beating someone to death is ever justifiable, but I also don't believe this man intentionally beat anyone to death.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:11 |
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Undead Unicorn posted:A mob killed a pediatrician because they thought his title was how you spelled pedophile. Not that this has much to do with the story at all, but this is an urban legend: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:12 |
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If the guy actually did touch the man's daughter in a grossly sexual way then yes, it's understandable how the dad could've killed him accidentally in a blind fury. But isn't there the slightest possibility that this could've been a case of "horse groomer does something innocuous like lifts the guy's daughter up onto a horse to sit on it and the father walks in at the wrong moment"? What if he then realized his mistake and then covered his rear end by saying "no I specifically saw him molesting my daughter, no question"? All we have to go on is the man's testimony. His daughter is 4, and the other guy is dead.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:12 |
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Undead Unicorn posted:I'm sorry God was the man who got a 14 year old pregnant, not Jesus. No honey, I swear it was an angel sent by the Lord! Joesph was such a sap.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:12 |
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Nietzschean posted:I agree with you, but the point the opposition here likely wishes to make is that beating someone to death is never justifiable. To them, I'd say they should pick their battles more wisely.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:14 |
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Tewratomeh posted:All we have to go on is the man's testimony. His daughter is 4, and the other guy is dead. She was taken to the hospital and examined immediately afterwards. If there were no signs of sexual abuse I'd imagine this would be a different story. Also the abuse occured inside the house while everyone else was out dealing with horses so I don't see how the abuser could have been "putting her up on a horse"
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:15 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 22:50 |
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Tewratomeh posted:If the guy actually did touch the man's daughter in a grossly sexual way then yes, it's understandable how the dad could've killed him accidentally in a blind fury. But isn't there the slightest possibility that this could've been a case of "horse groomer does something innocuous like lifts the guy's daughter up onto a horse to sit on it and the father walks in at the wrong moment"? What if he then realized his mistake and then covered his rear end by saying "no I specifically saw him molesting my daughter, no question"? All we have to go on is the man's testimony. His daughter is 4, and the other guy is dead. Remember the balloon boy thing? That kid was 6 and couldn't keep the lie straight. Kids that age are really bad liars, so the police are probably talking to her along with a child psychologist.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:15 |
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