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This is a thread for Hiking, camping, bushcraft, and honest to goodness survival.  When people get ready to head out of doors for an extended period (let's face it, a single day in the field is extended in the age of central air, COD, and urban sprawl. Plus, you know, the internet.) they tend to have some questions. I hope this thread can more efficiently answer them than more gear-centric threads. In order to do this, we need to know exactly who you are and what you plan to do in what season. And you need to learn what questions to ask and details to add. These are the details that make other threads a bit jumbled in their recommendations. Example: "What stove should I buy to bring on a backpacking trip?" No one can answer that. "I am headed on my first 72 hour trip through the Lakes Region of New Hampshire this July and would like a stove to cook and purify water. Any recommendations?" Now we can help. We know that you are new and that telling you to bring a penny stove is not in your skillset, that you will need plenty of fuel since your water supply depends on your stove, that you have abundant water access, and that it needs to be compact and light since it is going into an already full pack. Butane will work in the summer with tiny stoves and little weight. Alcohol stoves (cough, Trangia burner, cough, you already have one, right?) may be good, as well. The terrain is wooded so a small twig stove would be cool if the weather stay dry-ish. Seem a bit much? Outdoor pursuits are varied, as are the environments in which they take place. That same little bitty butane stove with the light and convenient fuel doesn't work, at all, during the winter. I found that out on a -17 degree Fahrenheit overnight. Asking the correct question will keep you from having to learn a rough lesson already learned by others. Penny stoves have to be made, as well as time-fuel-elevation-volume charts to calculate how much fuel to use to boil your water exactly with zero waste since they can't store fuel internally. Now that you know how to ask questions, on with the O.P. We'll start with some stereotypical and unofficial definitions: - Nature Walking: Getting outside to see some pretty things and go for a walk. - Hiking: Walking an established trail, usually to an elevated destination. We are still babies trying to get on top of the fridge after all these years. - Climbing: Taking risks to get to the top of something the hard way. - Camping: Living in the outdoors for at least one night. The most common methods of reaching the camp are by car, foot, or boat. Camp is the destination. Backyard camping qualifies and is the absolute best way to prepare for trips. You have your house to fall back to if something doesn't work. - Bushcraft: Camping, hiking, or nature walking with focus on honing skills in the use of natural resources to make camp life easier. Primitive-ish camping, pretty much. These guys start fires with a bowdrill or ferro rod, crawl under a tarp, hack up dead wood, and cook in either mil-surp mess kits or whatever ray Mears was last seen using. - Survival: You did something stupid and now have to wait 12-72 hours for the friendly game warden to drag your rear end to the road where EMS will ask you all sorts of questions. But hey, you may get to ride in a helicopter!  I will break up this O.P. into several posts and pound out one per day or so, but will start with a basic overview of each: 1. Planning, Basic gear, and Survival: I will discuss what preparations to make before ever leaving the comfort of your computer desk. This will mostly focus on the fact that day trips kill people and there is zero excuse to fail to let a trusted person know when you are leaving and what time to call 911. And the fact that you need to practice with everything and have a basic skill set down before heading too far. The basic gear you should bring for most any outdoor venture. The basic loadout consists of the hardest (and/or most environmentally irresponsible) things to find or make in the field. Things like containers, edged tools, water barriers, fire starters (Modern strike-anywhere matches suck), and insulation. This is also the same gear that keeps your rear end alive if you wind up spending more time out than originally planned. 2. First Aid: The biggest medical issues in the field (Diabetic issues, heart issues, trauma, hypo/hyperthermia, dehydration, allergies, taking the medication your physician prescribed to you for a motherfucking reason) and how to keep your kit simple and easy to use. In the cold, rain, and on pointy, slippery rocks is not the time to be using specialized gear. EMS doesn't use specialized anything until you are in the ambulance and neither should you. I will focus on rapid assessment, stabilization of primary threats, and what you need to document so EMS and the hospital can better help you on the other end. Expect me to sperg about not getting hurt in the first place. P.S. Secure your pack. Loose packs going downhill are dangerous and just like a knife, no one should try to catch one. Sumdood just got himself a nice funeral after chasing one in Alaska. 3. Water and Food: When to drink it, how much to drink, yell at you for not drinking enough, how to make "wild" water safe to drink, and how to carry it. People worry way too much about food, honestly. I'll keep it to some temperature and water availability specifics and leave it alone. Mess kits and stoves will get discussed in some detail. 4. Packs and Tools: I'll be honest, you can get away with a Jansport school bag. I'll talk about knives (get a Mora and a SAK or Case), when and why to use axes (you are in the forest, can have a fire, and only cut dead, standing wood because you aren't a hormonal teenage fuckwit, anymore), saws, shelter, and cordage. Guns will go in here, but are honestly pretty low on the priority scale. Now on to a disclaimer: My entire outdoors skill-set is focused on mountainous terrain, woodland, lakes, and rivers. Someone else will have to step up for desert-specific discussion, and I won't be too much help to the plainsfolk. As for first aid, I was an EMT-B for two years. I hosed up more than once under the watch of experienced medics and will try to help you avoid the mistakes I made. This may seem like a bunch to talk about and that is why so many people feel the need to ask questions. It is actually very simple. You already have almost all of the skills you need and just have to practice applying them outside the controlled environment of your home. Trial and error are half the fun as you decide what gear works for you, build up your skillset, get some exercise, and see neat things.  Hot chocolate by the river just before walking a mile home in a sudden downpour.  I got to see this view after a mere .9 mile hike up a very easy trail.  Trip logs, photos, and the discussion of minutia will be encouraged in this thread.And I would specifically like to request a more detailed report from Flanker about his stay in the Nevada desert. He humped in some serious poo poo and made himself a neat little camp I would love to hear more about. And Gtab hauled a 590 around Canada for bit which is a story I wouldn't mind hearing in more detail. Also, gear reviews would be great, but can we keep them to stuff we have used for a while? I have a closet full of stuff that was new and shiny but didn't cut the mustard after extended use. Fake edit: This post could use a bit of cleaning up. I'll make it a bit more reader-friendly after work. I will also add a resources link section to include good effortposts and outside links. Links and Resources: Let's Start with the books you should have hard copies of. These are things that you should read at home and may be handy to toss in a pack for reading in the field: 98.6 Degrees: The Art Of Keeping Your rear end Alive - A basic and inexpensive survival manual written by a filthy Arizona hippie. It focuses entirely on water, dressing properly, trip planning, and avoiding hyper/hypothermia. Bushcraft - Do you live in a wooded area? Mors Kochanski is the undisputed master of bushcraft. This is more about primitive camping than survival with an excellent primer on campfire cooking and various skills for a woodsman. His primer on the use of an axe is the best I have ever read. Be Expert With Map and Compass - This is the go-to book for learning the use of map and compass. Written by a tall Swede long before most of us were born. Buy it, read it, love it. Skill with a map and compass requires practice and pays huge dividends in the field. Orienteering is also delightfully fun. On Your Own in the Wilderness - This is pretty much my bible. It is only slightly dated (we should not be loving up live trees for regular camping, have stoves worth a drat, and use water bottles more than the old-timers. Also, new foods.) while still being amazingly applicable to modern camping and hunting. If you plan to screw around on mountains regularly and year-round, get a copy of Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills. It is pretty much the standard textbook for people playing at elevation. Other Good Reads: Woodcraft & Camping - George Washintong Sears, or Nessmuk, was a tiny outdoorsman from NY suffering from life-long poor health. He carried a hatchet and often no shelter because he was perfectly willing to cut down 3-12 trees just to make camp. It is a very amusing read. Download it. It is free. Resources: http://hikinghq.net/ - "Sgt. Rock" is a pretty good resource for people wanting to start packing lighter. Himself having gone from a 60+ lb behemoth of a pack down to pretty light. Skills: Mors Kochanski puts together a very cheap, absolutely no-frills survival kit. Split wood fire in the rain with slipjoint folder and a ferro rod! - Learn to start a fire in the rain and you can start one at any time! Practice this one. The days you well and truly need a fire are the lovely ones. Ray Mears talks some axe safety - A decent visual of how to not split your shin. A complete guide to axe care and use - drat, just  Sharpening a spoon knife - Because they all come dull. How to pack a backpack - This is a solid look at efficiently packing and features a good selection of gear. Cool Stuff: Sepp Waldhandwerk builds a snow shelter on a mountainside - Most snow shelters are built this way. You may pile the snow yourself before digging, but the small size, candle, pee jar, and hurs of build time (just the digging, that is) are the same. It also shows how cozy they can be. Pack Goat! - Dave Canterbury has a pack goat...and evidently the same envelope pack as me.Effortposts from this thread: Diver Dick hangs his bearbag for the world to see. Dr Ozziemandius discusses insulation in a hammock. MadMax shares a nice gear comparison chart. "Homework" because Twisted is a masochist: Make a split-wood fire - Twisted was the only taker for this one Tie some basic knots - Beardless and Delivery McGee make it look easy. Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2012 around 14:19 |
| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:39 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 16:23 |
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Survival: How not to earn a Darwin Award It's warm out/just a day trip/excuses excuses: Father went hiking with two kids in sixty degree weather. Rain rolled in and temps dropped into the twenties as night came. All three died. Basic prep is no inconvenience, do it. Before You GoFollow these steps before ever even leaving your house for a day trip. 1. Plan your trip. The plans need not be complex. "I'll be bumming around in this area. From lunchtime to dark-ish" is fine. 2. Map your trip. A sketched map on a sheet of paper with some labeled landmarks will suffice. Circling the area you plan to romp on a proper USGS topo map would be ideal. Go ahead and leave yourself some room to get distracted beyond your planned area. I've promised to be in an area by a pond and wound up summiting a mountain a mile away. If I had been hurt, I would have been hosed. A wider area means more ground to pound for searchers, but setting a small one and then being a dipshit entirely outside of it will guarantee an overnight wait for help to finish searching the expected area before spiraling outward. 3. Set a time-table. Again: After lunch to dark-ish. Add two hours or so to your expected return time. This leaves you room to get hung-up, spend some extra time, whatever. Don't have Aunt Susan call 911 because it is 8:15 when you promised to be home at 8:10 only to walk in the door at 8:35 because you saw a pretty moose/needed to get gas/took the wrong trail for a mile. 3. Leave your map, a description of what you are doing (hunting, fishing, photographing flowers, hiking [insert trail here]), what time you left, your license plate number, make/model/color of your car, and what time to call emergency services with at minimum one trusted person. Not what time you will be back, but what time to pick up the goddamn phone and call for professional help. People are hesitant and SAR is under-staffed. IF you give a hard time to be home, the plan-holder will play the "what if he is just getting gas" game before calling for help. The friendly people in charge of search organization will want to chat and almost always wait a few hours or maybe a day before looking for an adult*. If you left a "Seriously, if I am not home by this time, I am hosed and call 911 right the gently caress now" time, your plan-holder will call for help and the official on the phone will know that they need to get moving. * Children get a full-blown response from the first panic-stricken 911 call placed by a terrified parent. And even that is EMS/Forest Service/Whoever placed on standby while local police show up in person to feel out the situation. 4. Check your gear. Dead batteries in a camera can be a real bummer on the simplest trip. Forgetting that you should have brought a sugary snack to keep your diabeetus happy on a mountain can kill the poo poo out of you. 5. Speaking of diabetes, do you have any prescriptions or special medical issues that need a certain level of hand-holding? Take any prescription meds or other thing necessary to deal with your specific medical conditions with you! I've stopped counting the number of people I have seen panic on a trail because they saw a bee and just now remembered that they were prescribed an epi-pen for a reason. Note: #3 can be handled with a form letter on your computer. Print a copy, fill in the blank destination/purpose for trip/time to call 911 and hand it off with a crudely circled map. Seem like much? Day hikes kill more people than 48 hour plus expeditions. Making copies of a local topo map and filling in a few spaces in a form letter won't cramp your style. Survival situations are almost always the result of compound gently caress-ups. Don't let complacency and failure to leave a plan be link number one in the chain Murphy will use to beat you bloody. Basic Gear: Before we talk about basic gear, let's look at the things that kill people in the outdoors in rough order of likelihood: hypothermia or hyperthermia, pre-existing medical issues (usually exacerbated by hypo/hyperthermia, dehydration, fatigue, and often altitude), and dehydration. Mechanical injury usually doesn't kill people, but leaves them compromised in the ability to regulate temperature and secure water which kills them. So, if we are looking at gear that is always with us, but needs to be handy and unobtrusive for a simple day hike, we should focus on the basics: Temperature regulation, required medication, and hydration. And maybe a smattering of tools that make time and calorie savings when both are limited resources. The first item in your survival kit is the clothes on your back. You should be dressed in layers appropriate to the environment and feel free to strip them off and stow in your pack as you warm from exertion or whatever. As my father has said in countless lectures, "The first question you should ask yourself before you leave your driveway is: Can I spend a night out there dressed like I am? If the answer is anything but an absolute yes, go get changed." Here is my kit that is always in my pack, regardless of whatever else may rotate:  To start with the item not pictured because I forgot to take it off: A plastic pea-less whistle. Metal whistles get hot or freeze to your lips, peas freeze and stop the whistle whistling. Yelling kills your voice in short order, but you can keep going with three-blast series using a whistle for quite a while and the sound will carry farther. Keep the whistle on your person and quick to use. Top left: A handful of one quart zip-lock bags, a few feet of duct tape, and one or two of the biggest non-lubricated condoms the grocery store had on the shelf. NH is covered in water and filling a condom from a brook and leaving it in the sun for a day leaves me with about two quarts of UV sanitized water. The bags can be used to dress chest/abdominal punctures with the tape, store my phone in the rain, carry out trash, store and UV treat water, flap about in the wind as marker flags for my location, or whatever. Containers are a bitch to make, so why not carry a few extra if they weigh nothing, have a large capacity, and fold down to take up no space? Stainless steel water bottle: It carries my water. It can also be used to boil some more and keep me in drinking water. When empty, I can clang on the sumbitch to help guide volunteers to my location. Or use a Nalgene. Or a whatever bottle of water from the store. You can boil in a store-bought water bottle a few times before the fire makes a leak and that should be enough. I can make a video of this if anyone wants me to. Top right: Wool hat. Fleece would work, as well, just don't let a stich of cotton in here. Most of your temperature regulation takes place in the shallow blood vessels in your head (and neck, but let's focus on the head). A warm cap that can roll over your ears is step number one in not getting hypothermia by slowing heat loss. It can also be used to prevent direct sunlight on a hot day from frying you by blocking its direct path to your head. Sub-optimal for keeping you cool, but a multi-tasker. If wool, can double as a pot-holder and if obnoxiosly colored, makes you easier to spot. Spare batteries: A couple AA batteries in case I am lugging a normal flashlight and a couple AAA in case I am lugging my headlamp. They are light, compact, and keep me in light, they might as well stay. Chemlight: If trying to get off a trail in the dark, pop the fucker. It may prevent you getting lost at all if your companions notice your green blob bouncing off the wrong way. It is also a last-ditch light-source, a signal in the dark, and weighs little. Carry one. Buy nice ones in obnoxious, high-visibility colors. Svord Peasant knife: Is knife. In addition to being a cutting tool, the carbon steel can spark flints and ferro-rods, it folds to be more compact since it is a back-up blade, has an extended tang to facilitate repair and continued use if I break the handle off, and is already an obnoxious color to keep me from losing it. Or stick a SAK of your choosing in there, whatever, just keep a spare quality blade in case the one on your person eats poo poo. Or you outright forget to kit up with a sturdy blade before the hike. Fresnel lens: These thing require direct sunlight, much practice, and patience to start fires. I am not reliable with them. But, they can be used to do normal magnifying glass stuff, find splinters and thorns, and it is completely unobtrusive. And, yes, it will fry ants you sick bastards. Water-resistant matches in a plastic baggie: Fire keeps you warm, gives you safe water, safe food, a signal, light in the dark, a feeling of safety, keeps you busy and task-oriented to prevent panic, and is something of a companion. Matches are easy fire, bring them and keep them dry. Paracord: I think that is about 50 feet? Anyway, cordage makes shelter which keeps you out of inclement weather and gives insulation, preserving your body temperature. It can also be used to fashion other goodies, repair gear, secure splints, and other rope things. 50 feet is compact and light enough to tag along considering what a calorie and time hungry process it is to find, craft, and use natural cordage. Magnesium fire-starter: It takes forever to scrape a usable pile of magnesium, but the bitch-hot pile of burning metal can get damp poo poo burning. It offers spare fire in a light and compact package with a different set of advantages to the primary matches. It can also conserve matches if it becomes evident that you will be alone for a while. Snickers bar: To be honest, this is for a diabetic that often accompanies me, or in case I run into another diabetic on the side of the hill in need of sugar boost to get down. Or, if you do get bored and a snack will stave off a feeling of hopelessness. A positive attitude is the number one resource to keep you going and if a peanutty sugar snack will do it, then bring one. Drink powder: That water you just purified taste like poo poo? Mask it with this. Mine also has caffeine to help treat a stress headache or give me a pick-me-up if it needs to, but it is really my choice because I was given a pile of the things and they are palatable. Top left on the big plastic bag: A candle to give me light, heat to a limited extent, extended flame in a difficult fire-lighting, use as a signal, and wax gear. A candle stub would probably suffice, but gently caress it, the little thing is lightweight enough. Top right of the bag: Petroleum jelly rubbed cotton balls in a film canister sealed with a few wraps of tape. Balm for chapped lips and hands, grease for gear, prevent rust on your knife, a top-notch fire-starter when broken open and sparked. Multi-use, lightweight, compact, and an A-grade thermoregulatory tool? Bring a few of them. Bottom left of bag: Sighted glass signal mirror. Stay in touch when scouting ahead of the group when not in trees, use as a regular mirror (especially handy if you wear contacts or get something in your eye.), and signal rescuers. Limited utility in the brush, but handy as hell above or outside of the tree-line. Bottom right of bag: Tincture of iodine treats wounds to prevent infection and water to make it potable. Iodine tabs are fine, and can be diluted with water for use as a second-rate antiseptic, is at times easier to find, and has a much shorter shelf-life, but I prefer tincture. To each his own. Center of bag: The usual mylar space blanket. A water barrier which would take take hours to make from scratch and still leak pre-made and leak-proof in an itty-bitty footprint that weighs nothing? Bring it. Bonus points for aiding thermoregulation by reflecting heat and its usability as a signal. And finally on the bottom left of the picture, a heavy duty space blanket tarp thing: Need to get out of the sun? Rig a lean-to with the colored side facing you for shade. Need to get out of the rain and/or warm? Rig a lean-to with the shiny side in. It can also haul debris for a stronger shelter and be used to signal. It also doesn't take up much more space or weight than a 5'x7' MEST, so bring one. They are proper tarps and quite weather-worthy. MOST IMPORTANTLY! Add any medication that you require to include spare glasses. Many lost people suffered from a pre-existing medical issue that caused poor-decision making, injury, difficulty regulating body temperature, and disorientation. Prevent that poo poo. Where's the map and compass?!?!?!?!?!Most people can't use either, experienced users have trouble with them in thick brush and timber, and you don't NEED them. I carry them and know how to use them, but they are more handy than necessary. This list is good for temperate forests and may need some alteration to better suit people in deserts, tundras, and plains. Also, practice makes perfect. Use your gear, fiddle with it, play with it, and keep it maintained. This will insure that you have the skills to use it and the confidence that it will perform. Just found this and will throw it in here now to show an excellent multi-person winter survival camp. Watch parts one and two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0SB5jQeBHw As a quick explanation of a few things: - He just takes a saw blade because it is easy to make a frame for a bow saw with some practice. - Tomahawks are made to slip the head on and off, so he just takes the head and can fashion a handle in the field to save weight and space. A quality axe is also far more useful than a knife when fire is an important item on the menu. It can cut and slice just fine while also processing firewood far better. - Get cuddly in survival. Three separate shelters would have seen three men shivering and not sleeping (trust me, BTDT) but being able to group resources left them too warm well below freezing despite light clothing. - Yes, staying warm in the winter takes that much wood. More if it was a single person in a lean-to. Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at Jan 15, 2013 around 07:07 |
| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:40 |
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Reserved.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:40 |
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Butch Cassidy posted:Reserved. Staging a picture of some common and useful options for mess kits:  The lid to the large Primus billy in the back sucks. And nothing but the Olicamp Space Saver cup is new. Most of it has been used for years. Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at Jun 13, 2012 around 05:18 |
| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:40 |
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I'm just being greedy, at this point. I want a sidebar full of sexy cowboy. Have a few pictures of packs, for now:   
Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 17:51 |
| # ? Jun 12, 2012 17:41 |
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Cool thread. I am whore for REI used gear sales and have enough crap to be able to force friends who want to camp out of bitching out because they dont have x. The pack I'm using now is an 07 REI Mars 85 and it is gigantic and I'll be looking to replace it soon. My old lady is rolling with a newer REI Flash 65 that is much more manageable for her and around the size I'll be looking to pick up next. I gave up buying hiking boots and every few months I'll drop another $30 on a pair of New Balance running shoes that I can tear apart without feeling too bad. They are much easier to break in than a spendy pair of boots, extremely light, and great for small creek crossings. I haven't found that I've ever really needed the ankle support of a pair of boots. These are the greatest. 
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 18:15 |
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Quick tips for survival newbies: 1. Learn to make a fire now instead of hoping for the best when you are out in the woods. Seriously, if you have a backyard or even a charcoal grill, make a fire everyday until it's 2nd nature.
3. Go take a basic first aid class from the Red Cross. And CPR. 4. Water filters will completely change how you hike - being able to refill your bottles and camelbaks on the go greatly expands your range. 5. Wise Food & Mountain House make great survival foods. Just add water! sky shark fucked around with this message at Sep 24, 2012 around 15:28 |
| # ? Jun 12, 2012 19:17 |
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Just posting to say that I'm pumped to post up in here. I've been camping since I was a kid and in my adult life I've been focusing more on winter camping and ice climbing in the Rockies.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 20:06 |
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The two best sources of camping / survival information I've ever found are: 1) the Boy Scout handbook. Buy an older edition and you'll probably pay no more than 10 cents. The older editions are just as good; there's been relatively few advances in the field of "edible plants" in the past few centuries. 2) military survival guides... in particular the "downed pilot" materials the air force gives their personnel. You may also wish to research what the local Native Americans did for housing and food: they were surviving in the wild for centuries; find out how they did it. No need to re-invent the travois.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 20:25 |
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Good info so far. I volunteer with a search and rescue group in Oregon and have picked up more than a few survival pointers along the way that I can share. The biggest thing a lot of people don't realize is how important maintaining your body temperature is to staying alive outdoors. Cody Lundin, the dirty hippie from Dual Survival, wrote a pretty good book on the topic. It boils down to making sure you're wearing appropriate clothing that will keep you dry and warm/cool. Being able to find or build shelter is also key to keeping you out of the elements. Cotton balls, vaseline, and a ferro rod make a small and reliable fire starting kit. Definitely practice building a fire beforehand if you're inexperienced.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 20:41 |
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Those hard water bottles are the worst. These:  All day long hiking its just slish swash slish swash. The best water bottle is this:  They come in 1.5 liter size which is just perfect. Cost you next to nothing. Can be re-used for some time. More important than all of that however is that as you drink out of them you can smash them so they don't slosh around everywhere you go. Edit: All of my hiking and woodland experience is in the Pacific Northwest. Any of you Cascadians would do well to buy yourself some Lone Pine field guides. Not only are they really fantastic field guides in terms of size, durability, and usability (a problem with old field guides), they also contain a great deal of information about the native uses for plants for building and medicine, along with edibility. The truth is there are a few things out here that will do you in, but most of our wild berries are actually edible and quite good. Another book that might be of interest to people who are into bushcraft is Mushrooms Demystified. Here's the deal with mushrooms; most are actually edible, a few will do very bad things to you and a few others will do very "good" things to you. Now, edible doesn't mean tastes good. This particular book is not a field guide (it's far too big), but it is a fascinating book in that he has an edibility description for every mushroom in there, and that's a hell of a lot of mushrooms. Apparently there are insane people who go out and sample mushrooms and fungus, pretty much any mushroom or fungus, and describe taste, effects, cooking techniques, and so forth. Sixgun Strumpet fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 20:54 |
| # ? Jun 12, 2012 20:47 |
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Bob Morane posted:Definitely practice building a fire beforehand if you're inexperienced. Building a good camp fire is dead simple. You just have to know what you're doing. There are three types of fire material: tinder, kindling and fuel. Each type is used to ignite the next type in the list. Basically, you're building layers of fire. Tinder is anything tiny and dry. Grasses and pine needles work great. Twigs smaller than your pinky. Dried bark that's been shredded. If you have a wad of tinder about the size of your head, you'll probably have no problems getting a fire started with one match. Tinder burns very hot, but it also burns very fast. It is used to ignite the kindling. Kindling is small, thin sticks. Anything thicker than your pinky, but thinner than your wrist. If you can get it dry, it works best. If you only have a few large logs, you can split the larger logs up into thinner smaller pieces of kindling. Burning kindling is used to ignite the fuel. Fuel is big dry logs. This will burn slower, and produce heat longer term, as well as giving you a great bed of coals to cook over as it burns down. Start with a double or triple hand full of tinder. Wad it up, but don't compact it tight. Fire needs air to burn well. You really can't use too much tinder, as it burns out so quick. Once you have your wad of tinder, start arranging your kindling sticks like a tipi over the tinder. Again, be sure to leave some air, but not a whole lot of space between the tinder and kindling. Basically, the inside if your kindling tipi should be full of tinder. With kindling, the more the merrier. Now, have a fuel log sitting beside the tipi, but not on it. Have some smaller fuel sticks handy (something bigger than kindling, but not logs). Light your match, and touch the flame to the tinder in multiple places until it starts burning. With some practice, you should be able to get a great fire going with just one match. Once the tinder starts burning, it'll start catching the kindling on fire. Once the kindling starts burning, add some more kindling to your tipi, trying not to knock it over. If it falls over, it's not a big deal, just make sure it doesn't go out, and keep adding some more kindling. Once that's burning well, start adding some bigger fuel sticks on top. If your tipi is still standing, try to add the fuel sticks as a tipi, and if it's fallen (which will happen once the kindling starts burning), just add them on top, making sure to leave space for air between them. The fuel log you placed next to the tipi should already be starting to burn. If you can do so safely, roll the log on top of the burning pile of kindling. If the fire starts burning down, but had a lot of red coals, you can add more tinder and kindling, then blow on the coals to heat them up more, and ignite the tinder. A soda straw really helps to get the air directed into where you need it, but if you don't have one, don't be afraid to get your face in close to blow on it. Just look away from the fire before breathing in. That smoke sucks to breathe.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 21:08 |
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The single biggest mistake I see people make in fire starting is not having enough materials. Followed closely by dumping everything on the fire at once and smothering it. If there is one trait anyone in a survival situation must have it is patience. If you aren't the kind of guy who can sit in a boat for 8 hours just to catch a couple fish, you probably aren't going to do so well in the woods.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 21:13 |
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Oh I am looking very forward to this. I bought some hopefully not lead lined camping utensils from dealextreme (knife and fork kits, folding cups, pan set) and I don't know if it was a waste of my American dollars going to COMMIES or if I did a right thing.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 21:19 |
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Sixgun Strumpet posted:Those hard water bottles are the worst.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 21:20 |
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Sixgun Strumpet posted:The single biggest mistake I see people make in fire starting is not having enough materials. Followed closely by dumping everything on the fire at once and smothering it. You're absolutely right. You really can't have too much fire making material. Any you don't use, you can just leave piled up for the next guy (or scatter, if you want to be a dick). Once you think you've gathered enough tinder and kindling, gather some more. ESPECIALLY kindling. It can take a lot to get a fuel log burning. You may need to keep your fire going on kindling and smaller fuel for a while before you can get a big log burning, and the smaller a branch is, the faster it gets consumed in the fire. It's always better to have more than not enough.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 21:24 |
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Bob Morane posted:Cody Lundin, the dirty hippie from Dual Survival, wrote a pretty good book on the topic. And the other side of that coin, Dave Canterbury, has a pretty good YouTube channel with something ridiculous like 500 videos. I'm sure Butch Cassidy will get to this, but it's important to remember that all survival skills take a shitload of practice. You can know the theory by heart but if you've never tried any of it until you need it you're just as hosed as the next rear end in a top hat.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 21:26 |
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A Mystery Ranch pack and Gränsfors Bruks hatchet? Well done, my man. Well done.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 21:35 |
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So, this penny stove has me intrigued, if only from an I-want-to-build-this-for-no-real-reason reason. I went to the top result on google, but after the building instructions, it seems to assume a lot, which, I imagine, experienced ultralight backpackers know, but I don't, for instance, how do you light and use them? If someone could post an idiot's guide to the penny stove I'd be grateful. e: this one seems to be the best design I've seen so far. http://www.jureystudio.com/pennystove/penny2.html MazeOfTzeentch fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 22:01 |
| # ? Jun 12, 2012 21:49 |
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I really want one of these: http://biolitestove.com/
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 22:05 |
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Awesome thread idea. I have been hiking around Virginia and NC every chance I get since I moved here. I recently did my first true backpacking trip away from easy car access, just a single overnight in the Ramsey's Draft wilderness in George Washington Natl Forest for a total of 16 miles. I learned a lot. -Water is loving heavy. I had nine liters on me when I started, and drank three of them on the first 10 miles. I don't have a pump and I wasn't keen on boiling or using iodine tablets if I didn't have to, but now I want a pump. I used a camelbak and the 6L version of this bag to carry it all. It was comfortable, but heavy. -Jetboils are awesome. I've used mine for making coffee and tea on day trips, and it boils water very quickly. I've only gotten to use it up to about 6200ft, so no word on altitude use yet. It performed well this January down to 20F, and doesn't require a wind shield to stay lit. It also sips fuel; I'm still on the same canister after the last three trips. -As others have already pointed out, I need to practice lighting fires. I failed to get something lit after 5-6 tries with matches and a cigarette lighter. My makings were somewhat damp, but that isn't a good excuse. I finally got pissed and used the Jetboil like a blowtorch, and I'd like to avoid that indignity in the future. I plan on making some tinder kits out of all the Altoid tins I have lying around. -I was taught a great method to keep the bears and loving rear end in a top hat rodents out of my food. Maybe I'm retarded and everybody knows about this already, but I'm going to do a write-up with pictures for this thread. It is much better than the standard throw a line over a high branch and haul it up method. -Seconding the Mountain House recommendation. Their stuff is highly edible. Throw some tortillas in with some PB and you are set. Starbucks Via coffee and sugar packets are great, too. -I need to try and shed unecessary weight. My pack was over 50lbs. Granted 20 of that was water, but I think it was a little ridiculous. I used a massive pack that I bought for dirt cheap, a Kelty Eagle 128 with the top bag and side bags removed. It's a beast. -I really like the Garmin Foretrex 401 for navigation paired with a paper map.  It displays speed, heading, distance traveled, and has an altimeter. It also automatically pauses when you take a break, so you can get time elapsed and time spent moving. The BaseCamp software it comes with does all sorts of neat things with the data, too.   It can export your path to Google Earth if you want to share it/save it. I get a boner for spreadsheet type stuff. To contribute, here is some stove stuff that you can pretty much make for free: Make your own: Fancy Feast Stove Make your own: Fancy Feast Stove Windscreen Edit: have a photo (Mt. Rogers Natl. Recreation Area)  Diver Dick fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 23:18 |
| # ? Jun 12, 2012 22:24 |
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So, if we are going to be talking about TFR and Hiking there is a subject that will need to come up. This:         So, goats. Goats are herd animals. If you stay the leader of the herd they follow you. You let them grow their horns they can defend themselves and you. If a predator does decide you look tasty, odds are they are going to think your goats look tastier and take one of them. You don't need to feed them, they are goats, they eat everything along the path. If you need to carry more gear, you just add more goats. Weight? Who cares, I have goats. I've been out with my grandfather's pack goats and they just follow you at whatever pace you set, eating the brush along the way. They stick to you like glue, don't stray at all. Aren't afraid of gunfire (we were testing that when we went out with them). All in all they just love going out, and don't mind the pack at all, and you can easily distribute pretty much any amount of gear between the goats.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 23:12 |
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sky shark posted:I really want one of these: http://biolitestove.com/ My friend told me about these. The charging part doesn't excite me as much, because I carry a solar powered charger I built into an Altoids can, but it seems pretty cool otherwise?
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 23:16 |
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Besides keeping warm, staying hydrated is the next most important element of outdoor survival. Drinking your own piss sucks. Fortunately, there are many good options for portable water purification. I'm not going to mention filters because they don't purify water. They remove the biggest particles, but most do nothing against viruses or bacteria. You should filter water prior to purification, but a coffee filter is the most you need. If you're getting water from a muddy creek or other body of water, you can try digging a hole nearby and allowing it to fill with water and settle. It's essentially using the ground as a filter and is better than nothing. Boiling For safe drinking water, the water needs to be heated to a rolling boil for at least a minute. Boiling takes more time than other methods, but it's reliable and doesn't require any special equipment. UV radiation Ultraviolet light is good at killing microorganisms. If you use something powerful like a steripen, this can take 30 seconds or less. (This is a great option for traveling abroad, btw.) If you leave water in a clear PET bottle outside in the sun, it'll take six hours or so. Chemical There are numerous types of chemical treatment options from chlorine tablets (which will kill most things except Cryptosporidium) to iodine, bleach, and mixed oxidant systems. Other Liquid can be be collected from dew or other moisture by wiping with a piece of cloth and then wringing it out. Depending on where you are, there are likely plants that collect water, often in their roots. I guess you could collect these and mash them up for some liquid if you had no other option. If I was stuck in the ocean or desert, I might try capturing water vapor with a plastic sheet. edit: I understand there are now some filters available that remove Cryptosporidium and some viruses. I still contend that they are an inferior means of treating water. Bob Morane fucked around with this message at Jun 13, 2012 around 04:50 |
| # ? Jun 12, 2012 23:26 |
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I was considering starting a YouTube channel for myself to practice these sort of survival skills as a motivational method for sticking to it. So far I'm too lazy for that but would anyone be interested on a "homework" assignment every.. 2 weeks? Practice the skill, take video/pics, report back with results and lessons learned?
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 23:41 |
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Haha jesus those goats are awesome. I'd only be a little concerned about them eating my pack, but then again, I doubt I'd care, cause goats rule.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 23:42 |
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right arm posted:Haha jesus those goats are awesome. I'd only be a little concerned about them eating my pack, but then again, I doubt I'd care, cause goats rule. Remember you are out in the bush, the goats are far happier sampling every green thing they come across then in actually eating a pack. It's kind of goat heaven. You do have to stay on top of the hierarchy however. So maintaining your dominance over whichever goat happens to be top goat is important. It's not that hard, you can easily flip a goat on it's side and hold his head down until he stops struggling. You don't have to do it very often, just whenever he decides to challenge you. When you are hiking it isn't an issue because they are usually far too busy eating everything they come across and following you. It's mostly something that happens when you are taking care of them in their pen.
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| # ? Jun 12, 2012 23:45 |
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Sixgun Strumpet posted:Remember you are out in the bush, the goats are far happier sampling every green thing they come across then in actually eating a pack. It's kind of goat heaven. This is the life I want to live, being a goat wrassler. I live next to a farm that has these goats that climb platforms set up in trees to get to the food that you could raise up to them in buckets. I always went there as a kid, I need to go again to get my goat fix.
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 00:06 |
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Well, I figured the penny stove out on my own, got some alcohol and a nickel, and took it out on my grill and lit it up. After about 2 minutes of the priming fuel burning up, I got this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_KxH1RqbxE
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 01:19 |
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Goddamn those goats are awesome. So is that BioLite stove thing, but goats rule. Ninja edit: I have a friend whose parents keep goats. I wonder if they'd be adverse to us borrowing the goats for backpacking trips.
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 02:50 |
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Saint Darwin posted:My friend told me about these. The charging part doesn't excite me as much, because I carry a solar powered charger I built into an Altoids can, but it seems pretty cool otherwise? Post the plans for that poo poo!
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 03:48 |
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I would like to add to the bit about water filtration... There are actually several filters that will remove most known common harmful bacteria, plus giardia cysts, and even a couple that filter some of the more common harmful viruses. The best thing in the realm of filters is the sawyer point oh two. You can have a few different setups, I like a gravity filter setup with clean and dirty bags... Allows you to carry a lot of water of you need, and to fill a big dirty bag full to filter on demand in camp. A grav filter is awesome, low weight, low effort, big convenience. Some aqua mira tabs make an easy backup for really questionable water. Love my gravity filter!
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 03:58 |
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Teh Hats posted:Goddamn those goats are awesome. You have to raise them for it pretty much. They take to it naturally, but they need pack training and you have to pay special attention to staying top goat. It's also a good idea to let them grow their horns out for protection against predators.
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 04:09 |
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Any tips for spicing them so you can make gyros on the trail?
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 04:10 |
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Military surplus is usually crappy for camping, but if you get the chance grab a surplus evasion chart for the area you'll be staying. They're made of Tyvek, lightweight, waterproof, rip resistant, make excellent improvised shelter roofs and ground mats, and have edible and poisonous flora/fauna detailed in the margins along with general survival info. If you can't get a Tyvek map of the area, get a 6'x6' Tyvek sheet and fold it up in the bottom of your bag. It'll help keep moisture out when you set your pack down. They're also a great way to protect the bottom of your tent from punctures and keep out moisture-related cold, as well as supplement the waterproofing on your tent roof. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS carry plastic bags. A plastic bag is one of the single most useful things you can carry. Heavy freezer bags turn into canteens and keep bugs off your foraged food. Trash bags turn into transpiration bags, ponchos, roofs, and signaling devices. Seriously. Get off your fat rear end and go put a fresh trash bag in your loving car right loving now. Want to spend money on gizmos and gadgets? Are you prone to spending lots of time in wilderness or open water? GET A GODDAMN PLB. http://www.popularmechanics.com/out...locator-beacons http://www.rei.com/category/40002203 Get one that transmits on 121.5MHz as well as the satellite SAR channels. 121.5 is the WORLDWIDE backup aviation distress frequency. At any given time, everyone with helicopters is listening to 121.5MHz and 243.0 MHz for cursing and beeps. When anyone hears a tone on that frequency, about 6000 search and rescue dudes from the Coast Guard, local law enforcement, the US Air Force, the US Navy, the RAF, the RAAF, the RCAF, the United Imperial Democratic People's Republic of Luftwaffe are going to be reenacting the National Guard scene from the Blues Brothers. Don't push the Big Red Button if you aren't in desperate need of rescue, or I will hunt you down and poo poo in your titanium space age nanocomposite bespoke cookware for interrupting my crossword. PS- this works outside the US, too. If you aren't there as part of an MEU, register with the embassy you dumb gently caress. PPS- If your unit allows it, get one if you go outside the wire in Afghanistan and your unit doesn't issue an equivalent device. Help me help you, thanks.
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 04:27 |
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Bob Morane posted:If I was stuck in the ocean or desert, I might try capturing water vapor with a plastic sheet. This guy has given some good advise, but DO NOT DO THIS!Digging a solar still uses more water in your body than you get in return. I'll let Cody Lundin explain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMJYyqTMm74 Edit: There is a dispute about this, so ignore the guy from watery NH. MazeOfTzeentch posted:Well, I figured the penny stove out on my own, got some alcohol and a nickel, and took it out on my grill and lit it up. This is awesome.  Totally TWISTED posted:I was considering starting a YouTube channel for myself to practice these sort of survival skills as a motivational method for sticking to it. So far I'm too lazy for that but would anyone be interested on a "homework" assignment every.. If there is any interest, i would have no problem putting something together. Make a fire in the rain, rig a shelter with a trash bag, stuff like that. Because it can not be emphasized enough that skill and practice are more important than gear. And it would also be fun. Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at Jun 13, 2012 around 05:38 |
| # ? Jun 13, 2012 04:28 |
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H.M.S. Suprise posted:A Mystery Ranch pack and Gränsfors Bruks hatchet? Thanks, but it is a 19" small forest axe rather than a hatchet because I have watched way too much Ray Mears. I have also read a bunch of Kochanski, but you can never read too much of his work. Seriously, though. It is a great axe and my only complaint is that the concave shape doesn't split as well as a more general-use head shape.
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 04:35 |
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Goats rule. DIY camp stoves rule.Butch Cassidy posted:This guy has given some good advise, but Sure, solar stills aren't a great option for routine water purification. They are particularly inefficient when used to gather moisture from plant matter like in that video. However, if you are someplace hot and have no other means of making water safe to drink, a still will get you drinkable water from dirty water. If all those people had peed in the hole instead of cooking that grass, they would have gotten a lot more water. That's the reason the method is taught. If you have a quality fixed-blade knife, you can baton wood to chop up logs in the absence of a saw. This means using a big rear end piece of wood to strike the back of your knife, driving it into the wood you're chopping. A saw is better for cutting across the grain obviously. Batoning a good way to make kindling when preparing a fire. This is especially true if you're somewhere wet, since it allows you to get at the dry interior of logs.
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 05:20 |
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Bob Morane posted:Sure, solar stills aren't a great option for routine water purification. They are particularly inefficient when used to gather moisture from plant matter like in that video. However, if you are someplace hot and have no other means of making water safe to drink, a still will get you drinkable water from dirty water. If all those people had peed in the hole instead of cooking that grass, they would have gotten a lot more water. That's the reason the method is taught. I can't really argue this point other than to say that you should pee in a trench around the hole rather than directly into it. And by this, I mean: You should have left a proper plan with two (2) deux trusted people before you left so that you could be handed a nice bottle of water by a park ranger before needing to do this poo poo. Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at Jun 13, 2012 around 05:36 |
| # ? Jun 13, 2012 05:32 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 16:23 |
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Fuuuuuuuuuck this thread reminded me that I want to get rid of my SEAL 2000 and get a good survival fixed blade for my rig.
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| # ? Jun 13, 2012 05:38 |
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