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thekeeshman posted:If you're looking for Singaporean news sources: Al-Saqr posted:I am bitterly disappointed you didnt make the official video for Singapore the amazing "we didnt start the fire" parody called "We live in Singapura":- Argue posted:In the latest news on conservative religious folks in the Philippines, one of our younger congressmen has withdrawn his bill which sought to prevent religious ceremony and imagery inside government offices and public spaces, after the usual people complained and painted his proposal as seeking to "ban God". Jim Bont posted:What do people here think of the prospects of the PAP and the general state of multiparty democracy in Singapore over the next decade - specifically once Lee Kuan Yew dies? ReindeerF fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 08:09
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ReindeerF posted:once I got to know people and hang around no one talks about church or religion ever. Granted, all my friends are middle class, educated people from Luzon (mostly MM), but I was still surprised how little any of them ever talked about religion - and thankful. Few people actively talk about their religion in the Philippines, but--I'm guessing it's this way in America as well--give people an issue and watch the Church go to war over it, dragging its faithful to rallies against reproductive health, against gay marriage, and against secularism in general. I mean heck, we're the only country left in the world that has no divorce (not counting the Vatican). I'm not too well-informed on our general politics but I consider myself fairly up-to-date on hot topic issues that involve poo poo our conservative citizens are against. If anyone's got any questions I can answer those. Also, can the OP have negative things in the description? I don't know to what extent it's this way in other countries but Filipinos in general tend to be ridiculously nationalistic and sensitive to insults about our country. I started compiling a list a few years ago meant to exhaustively document every time Filipinos have gotten angry at foreigners for no good reason other than perceived racism. Argue fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 11:35
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What's the general consensus about ASEAN as a bulwark against the Chinese? I just read that the Cambodians agreed to extradite the French guy, and the article made it seem like it was done soon after a deal on building a dam with Chinese investment. Is ASEAN really even viewed as an effective body against Chinese expansion in the South China Sea and Indian Ocean? Also, has anyone read "Monsoon" by Robert Kaplan? I thought it was a pretty good overview of the entire Indian Ocean region concerns about geopolitics, even if by design it was a little broad and hawkish.
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Jun 26, 2012 15:19
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I just finished reading The Quiet American (Graham Greene) and it's a good fiction set during the Indochina war, just before the Americans involved (which the author kind of predicted, so precisely that he was under surveillance by US intelligence agencies for the rest of his life).
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Jun 26, 2012 15:57
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menino posted:What's the general consensus about ASEAN as a bulwark against the Chinese? I just read that the Cambodians agreed to extradite the French guy, and the article made it seem like it was done soon after a deal on building a dam with Chinese investment. Is ASEAN really even viewed as an effective body against Chinese expansion in the South China Sea and Indian Ocean? This situation is not going to change anytime in the near future unless some other large country can bring just as much investment and economic muscle to the region. It's highly doubtful India will make that sort of impact anytime soon or if ever in SE Asia and the U.S. economic influence is lagging lately. Many ASEAN governments still have a rather bad taste in their mouth about the IMF/World Bank bailout shenanigans headlined by the U.S. after '97. I mean if you just look at Thailand a high profile member of the royal family regularly visits China and one of the princesses plays a traditional Chinese instrument. Laos has entire buildings and infrastructure built by Chinese investment. Cambodia has mines and factories financed by China. That says a lot right there.
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Jun 26, 2012 16:32
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Jim Bont posted:What do people here think of the prospects of the PAP and the general state of multiparty democracy in Singapore over the next decade - specifically once Lee Kuan Yew dies?
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Jun 27, 2012 09:41
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Section 31 posted:I've been to Singapore several times, and honestly (in my opinion) the local folks don't seem to care about politics since they already "enjoy a good life" provided by the government, if you know what I mean. Corporate culture there is very entrenched which has led to this sterile sort of consumerist non risk taking environment. The nerdy white collar Singaporean stereotype is for the most part true heh. Singapore has done remarkably well though and i've met loads of Singaporean expats who have second homes (and second wives) in Thailand and other countries in the region. There's just not much to bitch about.
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Jun 27, 2012 09:50
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And if you do bitch, Minister Mentor will go on a talk show and give the Marcus Aurelius speech from Gladiator, shaming you into shutting up again. That said, there was considerable (and legitimate) grumbling over the recent corruption controversy that erupted. That kind of thing could damage Singapore's social fabric, because the whole place relies on corruption being channeled through institutions instead of through private networks (which is how every other country here works).
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Jun 27, 2012 10:15
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ReindeerF posted:And if you do bitch, Minister Mentor will go on a talk show and give the Marcus Aurelius speech from Gladiator, shaming you into shutting up again. quote:That said, there was considerable (and legitimate) grumbling over the recent corruption controversy that erupted.
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Jun 27, 2012 10:19
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Modus Operandi posted:I've had this discussion with regular Singaporean folk before and when i've touched on various topics like the single party stuff, drug laws etc.. They are mostly pretty supportive of the direction the government takes in these issues. I expected a bit more dissent but you're right that most Singaporeans don't care as long as that middle class living standard is maintained. Your average Singaporean does work their rear end off though and business is very competitive. It's just that they carved out a niche as a major financial hub. It also doesn't hurt that the word is out that Singapore will be happy to accept dirty money from fleeing dictators and their families too. This. The Singaporean standard of living is so, so much higher than the rest of SE Asia, and even many Western countries, and Singaporeans like to remind other countries of that often. There would probably be more dissent if there was anything worth really complaining about. The media is bad though and the city is basically stripped of any kind of vibrancy like, say, Bangkok.
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Jun 27, 2012 10:42
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I have ties to Singapore myself and go back every year, although I'm an expat so can't claim to have any real knowledge*. Anecdotally though, just in interacting with Singaporeans and checking out Singaporean friends' FB pages during the last election, it seems there is an undercurrent of grumbling that is slowly becoming louder. Some of it is related to the minor spike in petty crime, debt collecting activity and suicides after the casinos opening but most of it is because of the economic pressure that is just piling on. It is prohibitive for any young person to buy property, and the social expectations to study and work are insane. There's a small minority of young people, I think, who are beginning to question this, and this is going to grow massively if there is any kind of sustained economic downturn. The reason I mentioned LKY is because a lot of issues are going to get some major airing once he's unable to pull the Aurelius speeches and is in the dirt. Whether the debate gets any actual traction after that is another question. *Actually one bit. I managed to interview a former senior justice for a research project, and he was conservative, still working in a private capacity, etc. He swore up and down that caning is going to be done away with in the next few years because of all the bad press in the international community vs. the marginal value of deterrence. Who knows how many Michael Fays this is going to spawn?
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Jun 27, 2012 11:09
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I'd like to stop here and note, just because I can't help myself, that in spite of his authoritarian tendencies and other failings, Lee Kuan Yew is easily the most impressive living head of government, former or serving. I can't think of anyone alive who accomplished as much for a country as he did. Yeah, he wasn't alone and it's not a fairy tale, but in context what he managed to pull off is just, well, Jesus Christ. I've often wished we could make him Lord Protector of America for a few years, but I know he'd just quit in disgust after about a week (legitimately).
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Jun 27, 2012 13:34
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ReindeerF posted:I'd like to stop here and note, just because I can't help myself, that in spite of his authoritarian tendencies and other failings, Lee Kuan Yew is easily the most impressive living head of government, former or serving. I can't think of anyone alive who accomplished as much for a country as he did. Yeah, he wasn't alone and it's not a fairy tale, but in context what he managed to pull off is just, well, Jesus Christ. not to rain on your parade, but he's essentially a city mayor of a major trading corner of the world, if he had done what he had done in a larger country like Malaysia, then you could start showering him with praise, it's still great that he made Singapore what it is, but honestly he didn't have to deal with half as much bullshit as his neighbors did.
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Jun 27, 2012 13:56
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Al-Saqr posted:not to rain on your parade, but he's essentially a city mayor of a major trading corner of the world, if he had done what he had done in a larger country like Malaysia, then you could start showering him with praise, it's still great that he made Singapore what it is, but honestly he didn't have to deal with half as much bullshit as his neighbors did.
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Jun 27, 2012 14:04
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Modus Operandi posted:I've had this discussion with regular Singaporean folk before and when i've touched on various topics like the single party stuff, drug laws etc.. They are mostly pretty supportive of the direction the government takes in these issues. I expected a bit more dissent but you're right that most Singaporeans don't care as long as that middle class living standard is maintained. Your average Singaporean does work their rear end off though and business is very competitive. It's just that they carved out a niche as a major financial hub. It also doesn't hurt that the word is out that Singapore will be happy to accept dirty money from fleeing dictators and their families too. I've always believed there to be an underlying tension between the Singaporean populace and the huge, and still growing expatriate groups of which I was a member. A good deal of the top jobs are largely dominated by foreign nationals. Whilst this has brought a lot of prosperity to the country, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was discontent amongst some because the prospects for the average Singaporean child to reach a high position in one of the big Multinationals that inhabits the city, many of which probably employ nepotism in their recruitment schemes. You also have bunches of exclusive expatriate clubs in the nicest areas on the island, the British club/American Club/Et al. It seems like the Singaporean government goes out of its way to employ a lot of 'soft' segregation between the expatriate talent it tries to attract and its own electorate. A case in point is that, during my time living there, I never once interacted outside with other schools outside 'international schools group' (Of which my fees were paid for very kindly through Dads Company and by extension Temasek holdings, thanks very much Singapore Government). If it wasn't for me actively mixing with children who had both Singapore and Anglospheric origins, I probably wouldn't have set foot in an HDB (Some of which are very pleasant, many of which are not). It just seems like there might be a good deal of underlying tension building between these two groups as the government continues to prioritise foreign nationals over their own people. Atleast that is how I see it... I might be entirely wrong of course. a neurotic ai fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Jun 27, 2012 |
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Jun 27, 2012 14:05
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I've actually wondered about that myself. I've sat in on Ministry of Manpower meetings here where they send over a rep to try to find ways to scout specific kinds of foreigners to snatch away from Thailand (engineers, whatever). The perks are loving insane. Fast-track immigration, instant PR, guaranteed loans for housing and so on. I know why they're doing it and it makes sense (and works, they stole Unilever's entire SE Asian HQ from Bangkok 4 years back), but if I were Singaporean I might start to get irritated that any ang moh with a decent degree, some specific experience and a heartbeat could get a free ride on my tax dollars.
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Jun 27, 2012 14:18
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ReindeerF posted:I've actually wondered about that myself. I've sat in on Ministry of Manpower meetings here where they send over a rep to try to find ways to scout specific kinds of foreigners to snatch away from Thailand (engineers, whatever). The perks are loving insane. Fast-track immigration, instant PR, guaranteed loans for housing and so on. I know why they're doing it and it makes sense (and works, they stole Unilever's entire SE Asian HQ from Bangkok 4 years back), but if I were Singaporean I might start to get irritated that any ang moh with a decent degree, some specific experience and a heartbeat could get a free ride on my tax dollars. This is precisely what I am talking about. TH (A holdings extension of the government basically) paid for most of our school fees, they allowed us to lease (Not buy mind, foreigners can't buy landed property) one of their black and whites (Houses) and fast tracked our green cards and work permits. That was all on the Singapore taxpayers dollar. Granted, the company itself brings in a large chunk of its own revenue to the city, but even so... I find it hard to imagine there isn't a bit of resentment on the part of the locals. Add to that the segregation between them and expats... Well... (Though they do a bloody good job of disguising their resentment, I found Singaporeans to be, on the whole, a very accommodating and kind people. I am embarrassed to say that many expats did not treat them with a similar amount of respect, despite it being their hospitality they were receiving.)
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Jun 27, 2012 14:27
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Again, anecdotal and a massive generalization, but almost every single rude expat I have come across in Singapore was either British or Australian. The Americans, Japanese and the rest of the Europeans all seem to blend in better or are simply more insular. I have never, and I mean never, had an unpleasant interaction with a Singaporean. Regarding LKY: I admire him but his family retains an enormous amount of influence, politically and financially. Singapore isn't this meritocratic paradise that right wingers want to emulate.
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Jun 27, 2012 14:40
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Jim Bont posted:Again, anecdotal and a massive generalization, but almost every single rude expat I have come across in Singapore was either British or Australian. The Americans, Japanese and the rest of the Europeans all seem to blend in better or are simply more insular. I have never, and I mean never, had an unpleasant interaction with a Singaporean. I can testify that that was pretty much my experience aswell. The Brits and the Aussies tended to be quite harsh, though I also knew a french family who were particularly brutal to the point of downright mocking them in their faces...
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Jun 27, 2012 14:49
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Jim Bont posted:Again, anecdotal and a massive generalization, but almost every single rude expat I have come across in Singapore was either British or Australian.
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Jun 27, 2012 15:00
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Modus Operandi posted:This pretty much goes for Thailand too. Brits are probably the worst when it comes to the foreign crowd. Aussies can be bad but in general they only get blindingly drunk, start fights, and piss themselves. Honestly, this is pretty much true for most places. Brits are pretty notorious abroad (I should know, I'm one of them). Some news from Cambodia today, I'm not sure how much coverage the Boeung Kak Lake story has been getting abroad - Last month 13 women were arrested for protesting the Boeung Kak lake evictions, and were sentences to two and a half years in prison, after a trial lasting all of 3 hours. Well after an appeal hearing this morning, they're now being released. Understandably the original sentence was widely condemned and there are rumors that the government may have given in to the pressure for once, considering how quickly the hearing came up. Either way, it's nice to see some kind of justice here. (Of course things never go that smoothly in the Kingdom, and there were reports of police clashing with supporters outside the court, which allegedly resulted in a pregnant woman getting kicked in the stomach). For those who don't know, Boeung Kak was a lake in Phnom Penh that was leased to a development company, Shukaku Inc, a few years back. Anyone that has visited Cambodia, you may know it as the area where most of the backpacker guesthouses were. It's since been filled in ready for development, which aside from the obvious flooding problems, meant hundreds of people were evicted. The main issue was that many of the families lacked proper land titles (which is a whole other grey issue in itself). The wikipedia article on Shukaku has a nice overview of the situation, and there's also this old article which goes into a bit more depth.
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Jun 27, 2012 15:25
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Just letting you guys know I'm in Hanoi. If you have a question, feel free to ask.
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Jun 27, 2012 15:39
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There's always been a certain amount of resentment towards Westerners in Singapore, especially the ones that have local girlfriends, but I think most people thought of them as a necessary evil, since a lot of the western expats here were working with large MNCs people viewed them as part of the package if they wanted those companies to come. The soft segregation you mention definitely helped. On the other hand, the resentment I've seen recently directed at recent Chinese immigrants, seems a lot newer and more visceral. I think people perceive them as coming to take existing Singaporean jobs, rather than bringing other jobs with them. They also live among the local population, so people have a lot more interactions with them, which means more bad experiences. I've personally been really annoyed by Chinese immigrants who come here, unable to speak a word of English, and then look at you like you're the dumb one unless you speak Chinese to them. It doesn't help that a Chinese student here on a Singapore government scholarship was caught describing Singaporeans as dogs on his blog. Some of the Chinese seem to come here and think that because they see Chinese people all around them that they're still in China. As for politics, there's been a bunch of shifts. As the population grows richer and more educated, they're less willing to put up with the kind of paternalism that prevailed in the past. At the same time, the PAP (People's Action Party, the party of Lee Kwan Yew that's ruled since independence) seems to people to be more out of touch. The presence of a competent and viable opposition party in the form of the Worker's Party has helped make people more willing to vote for the opposition. In the last election the PAP only received around 60% of the vote, though because the districts here are first-past-the-post they still won almost all of the seats in Parliament. They did lose a Group Representation Constituency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_Representation_Constituency) for the first time ever, which I have mixed feelings about, because while I'm glad the PAP got a wake-up call it also meant that we lost a very intelligent and competent foreign minister. They party could easily have lost the presidential election too if there hadn't been a third candidate splitting the opposition vote. The government's been responding though, with stricter rules on foreign workers and more welfare benefits. I think they're realizing they need to pay more attention to the public mood.
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Jun 28, 2012 02:16
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This video is better than the manglish one for Malaysia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDvtXuH-Xk Here's the original one from Thailand  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNQAIqDdBKU I'm an expat living in KL if anyone has any questions.
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Jun 28, 2012 03:56
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Tytan posted:Honestly, this is pretty much true for most places. Brits are pretty notorious abroad (I should know, I'm one of them). Tytan posted:Some news from Cambodia today, I'm not sure how much coverage the Boeung Kak Lake story has been getting abroad - Last month 13 women were arrested for protesting the Boeung Kak lake evictions, and were sentences to two and a half years in prison, after a trial lasting all of 3 hours. Well after an appeal hearing this morning, they're now being released. Understandably the original sentence was widely condemned and there are rumors that the government may have given in to the pressure for once, considering how quickly the hearing came up. Either way, it's nice to see some kind of justice here. (Of course things never go that smoothly in the Kingdom, and there were reports of police clashing with supporters outside the court, which allegedly resulted in a pregnant woman getting kicked in the stomach). This whole affair has been so typical of how Cambodia is run. It's also very typical of how no one in the international community much cares, because it doesn't give them a chance to get on their soapbox about the Chinese. My understanding - and you'd know better - is that this is only the most high profile case in a nationwide trend that's seen land seized and sold for development all over the place. On a separate note, I went to one of the Burgers & Beer events at Leopard Capital trip before last and met the guy who started the local mapping club. Nice guy and his self-proclaimed claim to fame was that he was the guy who deleted Boueng Kok Lake from Google Maps. He said actually he submitted it, they removed it, someone protested, they put it back and so he had to go take pictures of it or something and re-submit  "The lake isn't there anymore!" "Yes it is!" If the Cambodian government were at all internet savvy I'd say it was some guy in the PM's office doing online PR, heh. You know, sitting around editing the wikipedia entry to say that the lake's there and everything's fine, maybe posting some pictures on flickr, registering truthaboutbouengkok.com and blogging about it.I stayed there when I first came in 2003 and, man, that was one Hellish backpacker ghetto. Worst place I ever stayed, I was thrilled to get out and I never went back. Obviously I'm not suggesting that it being full of dirtbag tourists makes it okay to steal, just recalling how awful it was. lemonadesweetheart posted:This video is better than the manglish one for Malaysia. ReindeerF fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jun 28, 2012 |
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Jun 28, 2012 03:58
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ReindeerF posted:This whole affair has been so typical of how Cambodia is run. It's also very typical of how no one in the international community much cares, because it doesn't give them a chance to get on their soapbox about the Chinese. My understanding - and you'd know better - is that this is only the most high profile case in a nationwide trend that's seen land seized and sold for development all over the place. I heard a great idea that they should have kept some of the lake and turned the whole area into one big park for the general public to use. Obviously building over-priced properties that no one can afford makes much more sense though. ReindeerF posted:I stayed there when I first came in 2003 and, man, that was one Hellish backpacker ghetto. Worst place I ever stayed, I was thrilled to get out and I never went back. Obviously I'm not suggesting that it being full of dirtbag tourists makes it okay to steal, just recalling how awful it was.
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Jun 28, 2012 04:39
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I lived in the Filippines off and on for 3.5 years and then came back to Canada for good in 2006. I kind of miss it and I kind of don't; my advice to anyone going there for any length of time is to spend as little time in Manila as possible. Anyway I was wondering, have things improved under Ninoy Jr Jr? It was Gloria the whole time I was there, (whom I met once, and Imelda, and Teofisto and a bunch of others) and to be frank the whole thing kind of sickened me. I actually lived in the same Barangay as her for a few months and man, those guys like their sirens! EDIT-Regarding Filippino nationalism look no further than any wikipedia entry about the place. Anything vaguely negative is either edited out or dished out to death on the talk page.
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Jun 28, 2012 04:52
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ReindeerF posted:Exporting misery since like 1066! The only reason the signal to noise for Americans is better in Asia is that none of my countrymen have passports and, of those who do, only a small percentage know where Asia is. If you ever have the misfortune to go to Cancun or something you'll get to see our version of Bali.
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Jun 28, 2012 05:01
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Tytan posted:I heard a great idea that they should have kept some of the lake and turned the whole area into one big park for the general public to use. Obviously building over-priced properties that no one can afford makes much more sense though.
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Jun 28, 2012 05:59
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Scaramouche posted:I lived in the Filippines off and on for 3.5 years and then came back to Canada for good in 2006. I kind of miss it and I kind of don't; my advice to anyone going there for any length of time is to spend as little time in Manila as possible. Dude, I wish you'd have learned to spell "Philippines" and "Filipino" in the time you were there :P Anyway, I feel Noynoy (as people like to call him) is an ineffective president, and doesn't really know how to run a country. I recall people being pissed at his treatement of the Corona brouhaha, but I wasn't paying close attention to it. I have little else to call him out on, but that's also kind of the point; I can't really think of anything he's done. He's said he'd support the RH bill, for instance, but I can't really think of anything concrete that he's done to help that along. The only thing I'm grateful for is that Filipinos are no longer holding anti-Gloria rallies every week, clogging up traffic in a city whose traffic is already terrible to begin with. Edit: Wait, your post about sirens just reminded me--that's one concrete thing he's done. He's forbidden government employees from using what we call "wang-wangs" just to push their weight around traffic.
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Jun 28, 2012 06:34
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Positive Optimyst posted:Just letting you guys know I'm in Hanoi. lemonadesweetheart posted:I'm an expat living in KL if anyone has any questions.
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Jun 28, 2012 11:41
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thekeeshman posted:There's always been a certain amount of resentment towards Westerners in Singapore, especially the ones that have local girlfriends
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Jun 28, 2012 12:41
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I've just had a browse through the Worker Party of Singapore's manifesto. It was a rather interesting read. http://wp.sg/manifesto/ Some things that struck me in particular was the need to reform transport, education and Sport. Whilst I understand in Singapore that things like healthcare and C&P need reform, I always thought (Albeit from my privileged perspective as an expat) that the services provided by the MRT, taxis etcetera were absolutely top notch; very cheap, very efficient. In terms of sport I was in Singapore to compete in the YOG, and the effort that the government had gone to to get young Singaporeans involved was tremendous. The Facilities at the Singapore Sports School were superb, rivaling or in some cases surpassing the local international schools. Can somebody perhaps illuminate for me the major issues for the average Singaporean? It would be great to get a better perspective on the political environment outside of my bubble. What things are of primary concern to them politically at this time? Its certainly nto a country as screwed up as here in the UK, but it can't be perfect right?  Also, I think it would be great if manifestos included the word 'dignified' more often. It strikes me as a more oriental concept that has its origins in 'honor' and 'respect'. 'Dignity' is more than the bear minimum to subsist, but is rooted in allowing people to actually live for themselves. I do find myself envious of certain aspects of Eastern culture sometimes...
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Jun 28, 2012 16:09
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From what I know, the major issue for transportation is that Singapore is quite congested, especially during the peak times and prone to traffic jams compared to the past and that Singaporeans are worried that with the government's stated intentions to further increase the population, overcrowding would get even worse. I'm still only a student thought, so there might be issues that I missed.
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Jun 28, 2012 23:26
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Section 31 posted:What's the general impression of local folks to foreign workers/immigrants, both Westerners and fellow Asians? Generally very good, although it depends on where you're from. If you're from an ASEAN region or China there is some racism and Indonesians are exploited here. Malaysians don't particularly like Singaporeans either but that's already been mentioned. These are gross generalisations though.
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Jun 29, 2012 02:16
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ReindeerF posted:Quick random thing here, confirm/deny something I heard from a Thai friend who works there. She said that sometimes when native Singaporean Chinese meet in a bar and start to flirt one of the first things they do (presumably after asking about salary, what kind of car you drive, where you live and so on) is exchange family names and have a polite discussion about backgrounds to make sure they're not related. Any truth to this? I'm not Chinese, but I know lots, and I've never heard of this. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen though, as Singapore is a tiny place where you could very easily be related to someone, and courtship habits within cultures don't get talked about that much with people outside them.
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Jun 29, 2012 02:21
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Serous posted:From what I know, the major issue for transportation is that Singapore is quite congested, especially during the peak times and prone to traffic jams compared to the past and that Singaporeans are worried that with the government's stated intentions to further increase the population, overcrowding would get even worse. I'm still only a student thought, so there might be issues that I missed.
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Jun 29, 2012 05:55
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lemonadesweetheart posted:Generally very good, although it depends on where you're from. If you're from an ASEAN region or China there is some racism and Indonesians are exploited here. Malaysians don't particularly like Singaporeans either but that's already been mentioned. These are gross generalisations though. There are rare exceptions like Thais and a lot of Taiwanese tend to like the Japanese and vice versa. Poll taken in Asia regarding Asian neighbors should be phrased as "Who do you dislike the least?" Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jun 29, 2012 |
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Jun 29, 2012 06:05
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Modus Operandi posted:The general rule of thumb is that the people in NE/SE Asian countries generally don't like each other and view each other with suspicion and or in condescending terms when it comes to each others' culture. Malaysians seem to like Japanese/Koreans quite a bit, including Malay, Chinese and Indians. I find it to be mostly rivalry from being so close to the other SEA countries and especially Singapore. For foreigners outside of SEA, they seem to have no problem with them at all. I'm Irish for reference and even though they may not know where that is, they still mostly know the soccer players (there is a big following for English football) and stuff like that. They even have moderate St. Patrick's day celebrations and an abundance of English/Irish pubs even if the price of alcohol here is ridiculous. One thing that I don't see mentioned that often is how orang asli (native malaysians for want of a better word) and other non-malay bumiputera (native born malaysians) are treated. They are viewed as backwards and lazy and sponging off the government. Even though, the majority of them are in that position because they've been screwed over by the majority already. Racial politics here is very interesting but it's something not many will talk about whether they're from one of the minority groups or not. I find everything here is driven by self interest and the government is very good at otherizing the disparate groups against each other against their own self-interest. Coupled with the fact that the government here is a monolith that hasn't changed much since the formation of the country and you get a lot of apathy in the older generations and a lot of resentment across the board. I've been told that (and again this can be viewed as bias) it wasn't always this bad but with the continued move to more "conservative Islam" by the majority Malay, the people are growing more and more apart. There are still some places that seem to have more relaxed attitudes (big metropolises like KL) and some parts of Borneo. The treatment of protestors is pretty lovely, as seen in the last few Bersih rallies and the clampdown on the media here is really something to behold. In summary, it's more common for Malaysians to have problems with their own people of differing races than it is for them to have problems with outsiders.
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Jun 29, 2012 06:28
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lemonadesweetheart posted:Malaysians seem to like Japanese/Koreans quite a bit, including Malay, Chinese and Indians. I find it to be mostly rivalry from being so close to the other SEA countries and especially Singapore. It's historically ironic but the Japanese are probably the most well liked expats around Asia except in China, heh. It's mainly because they tend to build low-key communities for themselves that don't aggravate the locals. They are typically polite and respectful. The Japanese also dump a lot of money or invest into the local economy so there are few cultural friction points. quote:Racial politics here is very interesting but it's something not many will talk about whether they're from one of the minority groups or not. I find everything here is driven by self interest and the government is very good at otherizing the disparate groups against each other against their own self-interest. Coupled with the fact that the government here is a monolith that hasn't changed much since the formation of the country and you get a lot of apathy in the older generations and a lot of resentment across the board.
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Jun 29, 2012 07:01
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