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The point isn't that 1366x768 is a low resolution it's that 16:9 on a tablet is just some what bizarre. Using this in portrait mode will be a challenge and to be honest I'd expect to be able to read books - comfortably - on this device.
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Jun 19, 2012 06:16
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MrBond posted:Compared to the A5 or A5X, the GPU on a tegra3 is tiny. I get that, but I was more wondering where anyone at MS had confirmed that it was a Tegra 3. That's what I'm confused about.
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Jun 19, 2012 06:21
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AngryCaterpillar posted:As a simple minded consumer whore, could I ask for an educated guess as to whether the Pro version of this thing would be suitable for graphically intensive PC games? Why would you play graphically intensive pc games on a tablet? Why not just get a gaming desktop or laptop? To play pc games on this thing you would need a full sized keyboard and mouse plugged in anyway, and I doubt the video card is going to compare well to what you can get for a similar price elsewhere.
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Jun 19, 2012 06:28
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I love the idea of this. My roommate has an iPad and I like it alright, but it lacks the versatility that something like this could offer me. I don't care about the specs so much as I care about the experience. What matters to me is that the software is married well to the hardware and that I enjoy using it. What, am I a dick or something because this seems like a product I would rather have than what's already available?
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Jun 19, 2012 06:40
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It's because that's the only processor on their roadmap that Microsoft could be using. I think this thing is just a hardware prototype and this is classic Microsoft vaporware in an attempt to light a fire under their partner's asses. They can't tell you the screen resolution (yanking the device out of people's hands when they try to look), they can't tell you the battery life, they can't confirm the processor specs, and they can't even tell you the ballpark price. How the gently caress is that anything other than "look at our engineering samples"? Having two different (and potentially incompatible) processors is a huge problem because some apps (CLR) will run on both but others (x86/x64) won't. It would be way better if they just said the apps had to be separate entirely - at least then you'd know. Or just require *all* apps sold on their app marketplace to support both and ship fat binaries. No one in their right mind will want to use Win32 apps on that tiny rear end screen with a trackpad. The pro product exists so they can dump them on corporate IT departments who I'm sure will snap them up only to have them promptly end up in the dust bin. It's an ultra book with a touch screen, BFD. What's the target market here? The "light" one has an even bigger problem given that the new iPad will be coming out around the same time. If the speculation is correct and it contains an IPS retina display you could see 15-20 hour battery life with the iPad 3's current battery. So I can pay the same price for a Windows tablet with poo poo screen resolution and 5 hours of battery life (and no apps), or I can get an iPad? Tough choice. But the weirdest part of this for me is Microsoft's fetish for trying to cram Windows everywhere. The iPad is already the target market... if they just ported Office they would literally make billions and billions of dollars just putting out iPad software. That's an absolutely zero-risk proposition, as opposed to this venture. Microsoft's entertainment division should be releasing iPad games left and right... again, another license to print money. I'd also have bought MonoTouch/Xamarin out and made Visual Studio the best iOS development environment and sold all those iOS devs a ton of tools to add another billion in revenue... tack on a small license fee to use the CLR in your iOS app store apps and boom - collect revenue on (potentially) thousands of iOS apps (and make developer's lives easier). Instead they've allowed a whole generation of developers to buy Macs, get comfortable with objective-C, and get hooked on the Apple ecosystem. IMHO Bill Gates would have never let that happen - he knew as well as anyone how important developers are to a platform and he would have found a way to monetize it. If I were a Microsoft shareholder I'd be angry they were potentially wasting a ton of money on this while they wasted *years* letting people buy iOS software from another vendor, pushing Macs everywhere, and letting iOS invade the corporate world while I twiddled my thumbs. The new model is Bring-your-own-device and I don't think MS is going to be able to turn back the clock... employees are happier and companies save money.. if that proves true going forward it makes the situation even worse for MS. Simulated fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 06:41
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Base Emitter posted:There's tons of apps people are going to want on a Windows ARM tablet, and if they don't get them, it will be hard to justify switching from either an iPad or an x86 laptop no matter how cool the gadget is. Office alone is going to be worth it for a significant chunk of the userbase. Hell, there are a lot of people who would cheerfully give you a kidney for an office viewer app that they could count on to work consistently. Also, I think it's safe to assume they've been working on tablet-Office for a good long while now. It's going to be an instrumental part of the whole Windows-tablet strategy. Tab8715 posted:The point isn't that 1366x768 is a low resolution it's that 16:9 on a tablet is just some what bizarre. Using this in portrait mode will be a challenge and to be honest I'd expect to be able to read books - comfortably - on this device. Yeah, they've been talking about 16:9 Win8 tablets for quite a while now, and it's one of the more worrying things about this whole initiative. 16:9 on small screens is good for two things: movies, and keeping costs down. It kind of smacks of a product that's designed to appeal to OEMs more than to consumers.
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Jun 19, 2012 06:44
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Space Gopher posted:
If this is the case, then why did they shove the windows desktop into WindowsRT so that Office (and only Office) can use it?
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Jun 19, 2012 06:51
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Ender.uNF posted:The iPad is already the target market... if they just ported Office they would literally make billions and billions of dollars just putting out iPad software. That's an absolutely zero-risk proposition, as opposed to this venture. What makes you think it's either/or? duTrieux. fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 06:53
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The obvious solution is have office tablet edition cost $200+ on iOS and make it free on Windows tablets. Thousands of pissed off ipad owners, but they're going to pay one way or another.
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Jun 19, 2012 06:58
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spidoman posted:The obvious solution is have office tablet edition cost $200+ on iOS and make it free on Windows tablets. They've already met you halfway by including Office with some, but not all, Surface devices.
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Jun 19, 2012 07:00
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spidoman posted:The obvious solution is have office tablet edition cost $200+ on iOS and make it free on Windows tablets. Leveraging your monopoly to abuse customers, I'm sure that's a great way to win hearts and minds in this competition.
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Jun 19, 2012 07:00
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Amethyst posted:Leveraging your monopoly to abuse customers, I'm sure that's a great way to win hearts and minds in this competition. Yeah, because it's totally a monopoly. Frankly, this whole discussion is so premature that the only possible evidence people have are their preconceived notions and personal biases.
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Jun 19, 2012 07:09
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Amethyst posted:Why would you play graphically intensive pc games on a tablet? Why not just get a gaming desktop or laptop? To play pc games on this thing you would need a full sized keyboard and mouse plugged in anyway, and I doubt the video card is going to compare well to what you can get for a similar price elsewhere. It would be good to have the functionality of a gaming laptop and a tablet for the price of one device.
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Jun 19, 2012 07:10
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spidoman posted:Frankly, this whole discussion is so premature that the only possible evidence people have are their preconceived notions and personal biases. And on the internet, no less
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Jun 19, 2012 07:11
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spidoman posted:Yeah, because it's totally a monopoly. Indeed! As Beardless Riker points out, this is on the internet for everyone to see! How embarrassing... In all seriousness the operative word is "premature". Even if we take everything Microsoft says at face value, they have no screen resolution, no processor specs, no battery life numbers, and no price. That's vaporware any way you slice it.
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Jun 19, 2012 07:15
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AngryCaterpillar posted:It would be good to have the functionality of a gaming laptop and a tablet for the price of one device. And I'm sure MS would sell millions if they offered a "free pony" promo, too. The physical requirements of high-performance hardware mean that any combination device would be too heavy and bulky to use as a reasonable tablet, too slow for the big-name PC games you want to play, or both. And, of course, all-in-one devices usually carry a premium price. Somebody might try to make one, but if they do, it's not going to be any good. Ender.uNF posted:Indeed! As Beardless Riker points out, this is on the internet for everyone to see! How embarrassing... You're the one who wrote a bunch of words about how Microsoft should give up their OS business and become an iOS development house, because the iPad 4 is going to come out in October with a high-DPI IPS panel that magically doubles battery life. And no, it's not vaporware. They have working hardware right now; that is the opposite of vapor. Apple's fait-accompli model for hardware demos is not the only way to run things. It remains to be seen whether Win8 tablets turn out well or not, but you're just raving. Space Gopher fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 07:35
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Amethyst posted:Leveraging your monopoly to abuse customers, I'm sure that's a great way to win hearts and minds in this competition.
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Jun 19, 2012 07:38
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Ender.uNF posted:Indeed! As Beardless Riker points out, this is on the internet for everyone to see! How embarrassing... Except it's a physical thing that exists and does stuff? Jesus christ what is wrong with the lot of you people, Microsoft could come out with the second coming of the lord and you insufferable, insatiable faggots would find something that offends you so deeply to your core that you would continously post about how worthless it is and how much you hate it. I have an iPad 3, had an iPad 2 as well, and i love Apple products, but gently caress me if this isn't an interesting product and what seems to be a real legitimate competitor to the iPad, which would be GOOD for consumers. Nobody knows much about it yet, so all you're doing is letting your personal bias' come out in full force. God forbid we have a discussion that's optimistic about a new product coming out, instead of instantly damning everything that is even 1% skewed away from your views of technological perfection.
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Jun 19, 2012 07:40
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AngryCaterpillar posted:As a simple minded consumer whore, could I ask for an educated guess as to whether the Pro version of this thing would be suitable for graphically intensive PC games? http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridge-launch-and-ultrabook-review/5
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Jun 19, 2012 07:40
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Syrinxx posted:Yes because Apple certainly didn't do that with ebook publishers or IAP price mandates. When did I say anything about Apple?
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Jun 19, 2012 08:08
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This thread has gone well.
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Jun 19, 2012 08:12
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Count me as one who is optimistic about the pro version. Full windows with legacy app support? Skyrim and guild wars 2? Thin and light at less than 2 pounds? Onenote on a 1080p display with a 600dpi stylus? I just canceled the iconia a700 preorder. I'll reserve judgement on the keyboard until I can test it personally but it certainly looks very slick. If it sucks, there's a ton of bluetooth keyboards available.
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Jun 19, 2012 08:14
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I am very, very optimistic about this. This is the first hardware MS has produced since the Zune right? because I love my Zune. Also just to be clear and so I don't poop my pants too soon, the pro version of this is running a full OS correct? As in I can install proper programs on this thing?
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Jun 19, 2012 08:52
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crsktn posted:Except it's a physical thing that exists and does stuff? That's crsktn. He fights for the consumers. Toady fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 08:52
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bradsh posted:http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridge-launch-and-ultrabook-review/5 Okay thanks, I see that Ultrabooks can handle high end games. So if this thing is comparable to an Ultrabook in power, I take it there's a strong chance it will be viable for gaming.
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Jun 19, 2012 09:00
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You can't buy one, nor do you know what it will cost when it arrives. In fact it has no release date. Anyone can demo a $2500 engineering sample. That doesn't mean it will make it to market on-time, with the same feature set, or for a reasonable price. How is this controversial? If Apple or Google had announced they were going to ship two incompatible tablets in six-nine months but no you can't have the price, specs, battery life, screen res, etc everyone would be ripping them a new rear end in a top hat and rightfully so. PS: I never said Microsoft should become an iOS development house. I said they should be developing software for iOS alongside their other business. Office on the iPad is a no-brainer. I also want Microsoft to make dev tools for other platforms beause they make great dev tools that I love. I just have no faith in them to deliver on hardware. No after Zune and Kin. Plus my Xbox that has RROD'd but they refuse to replace because the warranty expired and even though it is an admitted manufacturing defect. I am not eager to get burned again.
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Jun 19, 2012 09:04
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crsktn posted:Jesus christ what is wrong with the lot of you people, Microsoft could come out with the second coming of the lord and you insufferable, insatiable faggots would find something that offends you so deeply to your core that you would continously post about how worthless it is and how much you hate it. Yes the Microsoft Surface tablets are exactly like the second coming of the lord. There's nothing to complain about here at all; we're just being insufferable insatiable faggots. Space Gopher posted:Office alone is going to be worth it for a significant chunk of the userbase. Hell, there are a lot of people who would cheerfully give you a kidney for an office viewer app that they could count on to work consistently. Aren't there tons of Office-running Windows 7/Vista/XP tablets? If people loved Office so much why aren't Windows tablets popular now?
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Jun 19, 2012 09:22
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Web Jew.0 posted:Yes the Microsoft Surface tablets are exactly like the second coming of the lord. There's nothing to complain about here at all; we're just being insufferable insatiable faggots. "Microsoft could come out with the second coming of the lord" Did i say this was that good? No, but there are some people who are never ever satisfied with anything they see coming from certain companies because they can't tolerate the cognitive dissonance it would cause in their minds. This things looks great, and looks to be trying to do something different than the iPad and is one of the first really well-polished attempts we've seen, so i'm being optimistic. If you want to get down on everything, that's your issue, but you could try not being such a downer. What could this coming out possibly do to you that you're so vehemently against it? Don't like it, then don't buy it, but spouting out preconceived notions of what it is based on next to no information for the sake of reinforcing your own biases is idiotic. Maybe you're right though, nobody should ever try doing anything unless it's absolutely perfect, because we're all a lot worse off when we have options.
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Jun 19, 2012 09:31
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I think this looks quite cool and, provided I can get most of the app functionality I find on Android*, could be a nice thing to have. There's no chance that I would use this to actually create anything, but I wouldn't use any other tablet for content creation, either. That's what a PC is for. *Reading comics, playing some games, browsing.
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Jun 19, 2012 10:21
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I like how much MS is doing to advance the competition in the tablet market, but it mostly just shows just how far ahead the iPad is. Windows RT isn't going to be notable until someone makes the apps for it, and it's also really confusing to the average consumer. (My old .exes don't work? But it has desktop! I literally bought it to run this stuff, I wanted Windows on sleek, fanless hardware!) If the consumer won't like it, who knows how long it'll take for Metro to take off. Windows 8 as a tablet OS, on the other hand... It's got legitimately interesting backwards compatibility. You might get to use those productivity programs, maybe even run some smaller scale PC games. On the other hand, that kind of requires you to make one device both an iPad competitor and an ultrabook competitor, which with current hardware seems just impossible. Make it iPad size and you've got a tiny netbook. Make the screen larger and it's not portable anymore. For any real work you need that i5, and hey, that means your tablet is now 15mm thick and has a fan in it. I really do want a working hybrid, but the compromises at this time are crazy. Imagine the pro version of this and an 11-inch MBA side by side. Under the hood they kinda do the same things. One is a thick chunk of metal propped up on a kickstand, with a mediocre netbook keyboard or an even worse capacitive keyboard. The other is a sleek, ergonomic device that's clearly designed to be first class at what it does. Then, compare the Surface Pro to the new iPad in the tablet use case. It gets crushed. There is no contest. You could argue that kinda sorta competing with both makes it good enough, but at ultrabook pricing, I wouldn't say so. And i doubt Microsoft would push the prices lower, as the OEMs would throw a huge fit. Oh well, I wonder which will come first: a WinRT app ecosystem that rivals iPad's (I'm kind of taking for granted it'll beat Android tablets, because drat), or a fanless x86 SoC that packs enough of a punch to properly run desktop stuff. Also, no, I've only barely touched an iPad at a store once, I'm one of those crazy people who want something from the competitors.
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Jun 19, 2012 10:22
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Just finished watching the keynote and I am still as enthused or maybe even a bit more about this product. I think most likely it'll end up coming out and actually being a great device, but it won't move as many units as they'd like. That's fine with me though as long I still get to buy one. I've loved my Zunes more than any other mp3 player, liked their console offerings better than competing consoles, have always been pleased with their peripherals, and it honestly wouldn't surprise me if I liked the Surface tablet better than other tablets I've used. I've been waiting for MS to get in on this since the Courier never came to be.
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Jun 19, 2012 10:58
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As someone who writes for a living, this is looking really loving good. The iPad is decent for writing first drafts, but editing a story is a terribly painful experience. I mean, unless you enjoy having to constantly tap the screen to highlight words. And Pages is such a pile of poo poo, jesus, it shouldn't be called a word processor. I've seen a lot of people baffled by the RT version of the Surface. I don't understand why. I'm assuming a ton of students and professionals out there would kill for a super lightweight device with a 10/11" screen, a sub $500 price tag*, at least seven hours of battery life**, can be used as an e-reader, has full Office support, trackpad/mouse support, and USB/SD ports. Netbook screens/performances are terrible, and ultrabooks are a lot more expensive and usually won't last through an entire day, especially the 11" models. Really, the mouse/stylus support is the big draw for me, here. This seems like a fantastic way to actually be productive on the move. *oh god don't gently caress this up, Microsoft **SERIOUSLY DON'T gently caress IT UP GODDAMMIT
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Jun 19, 2012 11:19
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The RT version has a netbook screen and netbook like specs. It is the blazing power of a netbook with the awkward form factor of a transformer. You can buy ultra thin and light laptops that last through the entire day already. You can even install Windows 7 on them. You can buy tablets with better screens, and you can use styluses, mice, and keyboards with them.
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Jun 19, 2012 12:49
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Hip Gelatinous Cube posted:As someone who writes for a living, this is looking really loving good. The iPad is decent for writing first drafts, but editing a story is a terribly painful experience. I mean, unless you enjoy having to constantly tap the screen to highlight words. And Pages is such a pile of poo poo, jesus, it shouldn't be called a word processor. I think windows RT is going to live or die by the apps that come out. If nobody moves to the RT platform quickly, then the RT tablet will stall. If there is a nice supply of RT apps, and a steady influx of new apps, I would imaging most people could get buy with a RT tablet. It does not take a lot of power to play Tiny Towers and post on Facebook. People expect apps for their devices. The x68 version will have apps obviously, but MS needs to assure people that they are not buying a device that will be unsupported. My big worry is how will they handle software updates. In the current tablet market you buy a device and it is supported with software updates. ios4->5->6 on my ipad2 and ipad3. Honeycomb to ICS on androids. Will Microsoft make windows 9 RT free to tablet owners? Or will they have to pay 100 bucks to upgrade their tablets. People are use to yearly upgrades to tablets software also. windows phone is on this path, will this carry over to the tablets? I don't see them giving away windows for free, but that puts them at a huge disadvantage to other tablets. I so very want this tablet to take off. I am a apple user now, but even if I never switch there needs to be competition to make both companies make better products.
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Jun 19, 2012 13:01
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crsktn posted:Except it's a physical thing that exists and does stuff? Welp this sure was a post!
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Jun 19, 2012 13:13
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Paint.NET Autist posted:The RT version of the surface is objectively a worse device than an iPad because of the screen, ... I totally disagree on the screen. The ipad3 screen gave higher resolution but at the cost of much increased battery drain, and hence a bigger battery, and hence a physically fatter device than the ipad2. I think that's just the wrong direction.
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Jun 19, 2012 13:16
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computers posted:The RT version has a netbook screen and netbook like specs. It is the blazing power of a netbook with the awkward form factor of a transformer. One potentially very troubling aspect a well is the performance of the "desktop" in WinRT. I'm really curious to see how the performance is on a SoC, considering how poo poo dual-core Atoms with much higher TPD run under x86 windows. So sure, the argument is "Well you can run Office!"...expect that many Office installations have quite a few x86 utilities/apps to go with it that won't be available, but more importantly what if the performance is poo poo outside of Metro?
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Jun 19, 2012 13:16
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ljw1004 posted:I totally disagree on the screen. The ipad3 screen gave higher resolution but at the cost of much increased battery drain, and hence a bigger battery, and hence a physically fatter device than the ipad2. I think that's just the wrong direction When the compromise is negligible to the point of almost being invisible while bringing huge benefits, it's not much of a compromise. Meanwhile, Surface Pro weight about as much as 2 iPads and is as almost as thick as two of them stacked on top of either other, and will very likely have poorer battery life - and MS is the one crowing about "no compromises".
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Jun 19, 2012 13:22
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Hip Gelatinous Cube posted:As someone who writes for a living, this is looking really loving good. The iPad is decent for writing first drafts, but editing a story is a terribly painful experience. I mean, unless you enjoy having to constantly tap the screen to highlight words. So in other words as a professional writer, you're really looking forward to the experience of writing on a Microsoft Surface tablet with a keyboard and mouse attached. How much does writing comments on Engadget posts pay these days anyway?
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Jun 19, 2012 13:34
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:Meanwhile, Surface Pro weight about as much as 2 iPads and is as almost as thick as two of them stacked on top of either other, and will very likely have poorer battery life - and MS is the one crowing about "no compromises". And supports the following: 1) Stylus input 2) A wide range of USB devices, basically all of them 3) Multi-monitor desktop docking with full desktop experience Comparing the Surface Pro and the iPad isn't really a good comparison. Granted the hardware is comparable, but the user experience isn't. I'd compair the Surface Pro to the Macbook Air, and if there's a harder locking keyboard dock (like the Transformer) I'd say it's an interestingly close comparision.
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