Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Sacrificial Toast
Nov 5, 2009

100percentjesusfree posted:

In this game, at least, you can go to the Explorer's Guild, and choose any character who is level 30+ and have them Rest. Resting costs 10 levels that you'll have to grind back up, but gives them all of their skill points back. I'm fairly sure that this, at least, is constant across all the games in the series, though I try to avoid overusing it because getting ten levels back takes time.

You can also Retire characters, again once they're 30+ (I think?), which permanently removes that character, but you immediately hire a new level 1 character with enhanced stats, based on the character you retired, and a few extra skill points based on the level of whoever you just retired. I think retiring at 30 gives 1 extra skill point, and every 10 or so levels after that gives 1 extra, giving up to 6 extra skill points if you rebirth a level 70 character.

e.g. you could retire a level 70 Alchemist, and the new recruit could be any class and would have +3 Tec and +6 starting skill points. The boosted stat is based off the class you retired.

I actually never bothered with retiring all that much - if you want to make a team that's as strong as possible, it's useful, but it'll also mean you'll have to spend ages grinding a newbie back up. Besides, if I did it in this LP, we'd be losing characters went to the trouble of making, and that'd be terrible!

I might also not be entirely right on retiring, as I said, I didn't really use it. Anyone want to chime in and correct me if I'm wrong somewhere?

(Also, working on an update, and still amused by my own stupidity. Did something rather dumb due to being forgetful.)


Well, a few things. Resting does cost 10 levels in Etrian 1, but in the later games, it only costs 5, which isn't nearly as bad.

Retiring gives additional skill points, and also gives bonuses to all stats depending on the range of levels at which you retire. The new character (who can be any class by the way) doesn't start at 1, but half the old character's level. It also increases the level cap, which starts at 70. In Etrian 1, each time you retire a character raises it by a paltry single level, but I believe in later games retiring a character at 70 raises it to the maximum 99.

Also, I'd still never do it because gently caress all that grinding poo poo.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

Sacrificial Toast posted:

Well, a few things. Resting does cost 10 levels in Etrian 1, but in the later games, it only costs 5, which isn't nearly as bad.

Retiring gives additional skill points, and also gives bonuses to all stats depending on the range of levels at which you retire. The new character (who can be any class by the way) doesn't start at 1, but half the old character's level. It also increases the level cap, which starts at 70. In Etrian 1, each time you retire a character raises it by a paltry single level, but I believe in later games retiring a character at 70 raises it to the maximum 99.

Also, I'd still never do it because gently caress all that grinding poo poo.

Aha, thanks! I never really used retiring, sooo...

It's worth mentioning that the game is perfectly completable with level 70 characters and without retiring, it's mostly just used for if you're really determined to make a better party.

EO3 mechanics spoiler: Also, in EO3, you raise the cap by beating post-game superbosses rather than by retiring.

Krumbsthumbs
Oct 23, 2010

2nd Place.
1st Loser.
Ok cool. I just finished EO3 and was curious about the differences. Seeing how the game has evolved from EO1 to EO3 is interesting. Alot of the skills being spread or consolidated onto different classes and the difficulty of the FOEs and Stratum bosses.

10 levels huh? Rough.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
A couple things -

Resting imposes a 5 level penalty in EO2/3 but can also be done at any time (if you do it before level 6 it just refunds your skill points IIRC). Retiring can be done any time after 30 but reduces your level to half your level or 30, whichever is lower. The way skill points are awarded is also wonky but it always gives at least 3 extra.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

theshim posted:

A couple things -

Resting imposes a 5 level penalty in EO2/3 but can also be done at any time (if you do it before level 6 it just refunds your skill points IIRC). Retiring can be done any time after 30 but reduces your level to half your level or 30, whichever is lower. The way skill points are awarded is also wonky but it always gives at least 3 extra.

And this is why I shouldn't talk about mechanics I haven't used, and don't fully remember. :downs:

Sorry for the duff info, everyone.

Also, going to try and get this update finished tonight.

HelloWinter
May 27, 2012

"Hey, Nagito, what'cha
thinkin' about?"

"Oh, y'know. Murder stuff."
I feel really bad that I don't play through the Etrian Oddysey series quickly enough to catch up with everyones' technical talks between 1, 2 and 3. I wish I was better at this game, 100%JF makes it look so darn easy. :(

Can't wait for the newest update, man! Thanks again for making this LP, the characterization and constant bickering between the characters is so bloody good. The LP would never be the same without it. :allears:

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

HelloWinter posted:

I feel really bad that I don't play through the Etrian Oddysey series quickly enough to catch up with everyones' technical talks between 1, 2 and 3. I wish I was better at this game, 100%JF makes it look so darn easy. :(

Can't wait for the newest update, man! Thanks again for making this LP, the characterization and constant bickering between the characters is so bloody good. The LP would never be the same without it. :allears:

Aww, thank you! I'm really glad to hear you're enjoying it so much, even with me getting confused about stuff now and then. It seems I'm a bit rustier at the first game (and Retiring :v:) than I thought I was. Anyway, time for an update!

Update 16 - In which my memory completely fails me. Again.

Welcome back! In this update, we'll be checking out the 7th floor, then going on a completely unnecessary adventure because I'm forgetful, and got mixed up on the order of things.

Oops.


"We've got some momentum going, so let's go again, on to the next floor! How bad can it be?"

Stratum 2 theme - The Vast Primeval Hidden Grove



Let's just say that that floor name is the most appropriate one yet.



"What is THAT?!"

"Seems the very plant life in this foul place wishes to cease our egress!"

One of the new enemies brought in by this floor, Maneaters aren't TOO bad. They hit fairly hard, and have moves that can bind either a character's arms, or their head, but when encountered alone like this, it's easy enough to kill them. Usually, anyway.



This stuff, on the other hand...



is not nice.

:supaburn:

So yeah, everyone's favourite mechanic - damage floors! Etrian Odyssey is kind of a dick with them, which isn't surprising, tending to put them in places in which you have literally no way of avoiding stepping on them at least a little.

They hit the whole party for about 4-5% of their HP every step you take. There's also no way of marking them properly on the map, in this game. Fortunately, they'll never actually kill your party members, but they can leave them with just 1HP left.




"Argh... not bad, but not worth stepping on whatever this red crap is to get. Let's just get out of here already."



And shortly after me saying maneaters aren't much of a threat, I'm proved wrong. It hit Richter with a critical for about 138 damage... he really needs some better armour, and more health.

:gibs:



Another palette-swap new enemy here is the Fangleaf - sort of like a Maneater except generally weaker. It can bind the arms, and also cause blindness.



"More FOEs! Bear or bird, this time?"



FOE theme - A Sudden Gust of Wind Before Your Eyes

"Neither, apparently."

"Eeesh, that thing's huge! I wonder what its' insides look like?"



"Augh. I think it wondered the same about me..."

Even if you're happy to abuse immunize and defender, these things should not be underestimated. They're fast, so they'll probably hit you before you get your buffs up. They hit hard, and they have one other nasty trick up their sleeve.



"Fear not, friends! With science on your side, nothing shall stand in our way!"

"...I'd comment, but that's actually pretty impressive."

They're weak to lightning, fortunately. Like most FOEs, they're fairly resistant to status effects, so if you'd rather not risk a bunch of turns of poison failure, spamming high-damage lightning moves never hurts.



"Augh. Kill it, fast! That thing's seriously..."



"SERIOUSLY venomous."

Guess what immunize and defender don't do poo poo against? Their poisonous attack seems to hit near enough every time (only one character at a time, though, fortunately), and the damage is absurd. You basically have to pray they don't go for your squishies.



Oh, cock.


"That was waaaay too close."

"Yeah... how about we try and avoid those things?"




Victory theme - Get the Treasure



"You know, the more time I spend on this floor, the more I wish I'd taken up another job."

"Bah, what job could be more noble than protecting lives, and discovering secrets?"

"One where I don't have to trudge through murderous plants, preferably."



"And, no doubt, this will have a Medica in it or something equally useless."



"...Or not."



"It releases a low pitch and a dazzling glow, as ifresonating with something... Perhaps it opens the mysterious crystals entwined with ivy, seen elsewhere in the Labyrinth ."

"Ohh, so this is how we open those! I thought we'd have to push statues around or something."

"What? Don't be absurd."



:sigh:

"Don't worry, I'll heal everyone up once we're past this!"

"Doesn't make actually walking through it any more pleasant."

Another lovely patch of damage floor that you have essentially no way of avoiding without walking on it. This floor just loves these.



"Ah, look! A hidden passage through the wall!"

"...Please tell me there's no beef in there."

"No, of course not. Handy, though - it'll let us skip past all the damaging floor."



"Still, there's a bit up there we've not explored, yet... let's trek back and check it out."

"I thought you hated crossing this stuff?"

"Yes, but I also hate not doing our job properly. 'Sides, it's not so bad when you get used to it."

"Easy for a guy in platemail to say..."



"Oh boy! I'm already glad we came back up here."





:gibs:

This one focused on Dietrich right from the off - I somehow apparently forgot to screenshot it, but Alvis managed to poison it, which surprised me.

drat thing still won't drop the loot I want though :argh: maybe I should start putting points into Scavenge on someone.




"...And our reward is a dead end. Lovely."

"Well, at least we know!"



"Now taking bets on what's through this door!"



"If your bet was 'a load more of this damaging floor', congratulations! You get no prize."

"You're really not helping."



This door, here, is much more interesting, though. We step inside...



"Water flows between the trees here, and there are standing pools of water. Merely by standing here, your body begins to feel lighter. You ache to rest here... But suddenly, you sense an ominous presence nearby. It feels as though you are being stalked by some dangerous creature... The sense of foreboding is enough to drive you from the spring immediately. It may be best not to return here again."



"Huh. Even if we didn't stick around, I'm feeling much better."

"A good rest can do wonders! Even a quick one, sometimes."

If we head back inside...



"You cautiously take your leave from the ill-favoured clearing."

You only get the full heal once, so make it count!



Fortunately, it's not that far from the entrance to the next level.

Less fortunately, there's more unavoidable damage floor between the spring and the stairs. Sigh.




"Already on to the next level! That was quick."



"Oh COME ON! We already have a key, don't just start throwing up doors we can't open now!"

"Well, if we found one key, we'll probably find the rest sooner or later!"

"Indeed. Whatever villain left these locked doors around probably left the keys lying around for determined explorers to find."

"Yes, who doesn't leave their keys where anyone can grab them? Apart from people who are actually fond of not being robbed, I mean. Who the hell locked these, anyway?"



And here's what that mysterious new map symbol stands for.

"The roots reach to the ceiling as if to receive something, but htey do so in vain. As you puzzle over this, you suddenly hear familiar voices approach behind you."

"Ever further do you descend into the Labyrinth, warriors of Runaway. We congratulate you."

The warrior woman Ren hails you, her constant companion Cthulhu Tlachtga standing silently by her side. The ronin and hexer seem pleased with your progress thus far.

"We have a favour to ask of such accomplished explorers. Usually, the waters of a healing spring can be found here. Lately, though, the water has stopped, creating a great nuisance for adventurers."

Ren punctuates her bitter explanation with a quick point to the ceiling.

"A monster blocking the spring in the floor above is to blame. It is tiresome and vexing. Warriors of Runaway... Will you go to the spring, and free it from that vile monster? We could make short work of it ourselves, but we have other matters to attend to. If you mean to further explore the Labyrinth, to do this would be in your best interests."

With this, Ren and her wordless companion turn to leave.

"Luck be with you, warriors. Gain victory over the monster, and bring honor to your guild."

With those final words, the two adventurers leave this place. You can go defeat the monster as requested, or continue your investigation.

"So, we can either continue wandering around a floor we know nothing about, or get it set up so that there's a source of free, unlimited healing."



"Yeah. Tough choice."



Water flows between the trees here, and there are standing pools of water. Merely by standing here, your body begins to feel lighter.



Red And Black

This is the same music that plays when we stepped onto the third floor for the first time, and when all the wolves show up around Fenrir... generally, whenever things turn tense, this track starts playing.

Whatever vile creature blocks the spring's water is targeting you! As you look about, a gigantic crab steps forth from the cascading water. Its large, sharp claws and hard shell make it seem a harder adversary than any you've faced.

"Yes, we may have fought bears, and the king of wolves, but a crab's way out of our league."

"Shush! Don't comment on the narration!"

You vow to stand your ground and defeat the thing to restore this spring to its natural state!



So this is the pondclaw. For all the buildup it's given, it's pathetic. I'm not abusing immunize/defender here, as I'm trying not to use those when I don't have to, and for a 'harder adversary' it doesn't really hit that hard.

The fact that it's vulnerable to thunder is just icing on the cake. Alvis keeps on delivering!




"Those two really couldn't take, what, five minutes to come kill this thing? This is just embarrassing."



Victory theme - Get the Treasure

With poison and thunder spam, things go about as well for it as you'd expect.



With that, the pools of water below you audibly begin to drain somewhere. The crab's demise seems to have unblocked their flow to the lower regions. Your task complete, you decide to return to the main goal of exploring the Labyrinth.

"Come to think of it, I'm sort of curious about what we'll find behind the doors that key opens. Let's go back through the first few floors again, see what we find."

"Might as well grab a drink and check to see if there're any new quests while we're in town."

Bar theme - The Lounge Where We Speak Of Tomorrow

There are indeed a whole bunch of new quests.









Not taking any on yet, though. We've got doors to unlock!


"Being attacked by plants has taken quite a toll on me. I could do with a quick rest."

"Great, now who are we going to take with us?"

"It seems that, once again, you require my aid. Let us go forth, and seek out treasure to raid!"

"ehh, 4/10. That was pretty forced."

"4 is a bit harsh, though..."



Not this one though.

:argh:



"Hmm, not a bad start. If these rooms really WERE locked up to hide treasure, why'd whoever did it just leave the key lying around, though?"

"Not to mention it was behind some floor that ensured they'd get their legs torn up by thorns every time they wanted to open a door..."

"Eh. Best not to think too much about it."



"Bahaha. Remember when these things were tough?"

This is a Ragelope after a single round of nothing but normal attacks... early FOEs are pretty much a joke, now.



Unless they do this, and Dietrich happens to use Double Hit to nearly kill Hector. Oops.



"Ooooh... that's some seriously powerful medicine!"

Also kinda redundant, as it heals 350 HP. It'd heal Hector for about 200 more than his max HP.



"And this stuff isn't bad, either! There's all kinds of great medicine in these spots!"

"Yeah. Let's hope there's something more interesting, too, though."



"Ahh, last one of these in this stratum. I'm almost looking forwards to heading back into the jungle."

"Yeah. At least we can get a good brawl in there."





"Then again, with treasure like this, maybe this place aint so bad."

The Nectar II is exactly what you'd expect, a revival item that revives someone with more health than the standard one, and the Bravant 2 is immediately getting sold an item that gives a temporary attack buff.

Also note the position of that FOE - it didn't move when we took a step, so it seems we can't get out without a fight.




This goes precisely as well for it as you'd expect.



"Huh. Normally treasure gets better the deeper we get, but this one just kinda sucks."

"Still, free stuff is free stuff!"

I'm not sure if it's apparent from the screenshots, but we're basically going all the way around the outside of B5f. It's a pretty long path.



Of note, there's a hidden passage here, but once you check it, it gives no prompt or anything - you just go straight through and can't go back.

If you've missed something, enjoy walking all the way back around again!

Also, past this point, the encounters on the floor change. Before now, we were fighting standard floor 5 enemies, but now we start fighting floor 6 ones, such as venom/sleepgels.


"Welp, looks like there's only one way for us to go now. Onwards!"



And this is similar. No prompt or anything, just a one-way path... back into the main area of B5f. It's nice that they give you a way out of this little side path, but not one that makes you have to do the whole trek again.



And here it is, B5F in its entirety. :toot:



"Huh. Just... a long corridor in both directions."

"Looks like it's lined with doors, too. Let's see what's behind... the first one to the south!"



"Juuust great. And through the next door is..."



"Better and better. Wonder what it's going to be this time?"



"I can't bear this an-"

"Pretty sure that joke's already been made." :colbert:

There are a few of these things up here - you might notice there's one out in the main corridor behind us, which chases us whenever we go into that corridor, but also slowly patrols the corridor even when it's empty. It is possible to avoid it through cleverly ducking into rooms and such, but our party can just murder their way through.

Also, sorry for showing the map a lot in these pics, I'm trying to give an impression of where everything is. In any case, past the bear there is... basically nothing. A small path, with nothing in there, that leads to another door back into the main corridor.


"Right, that's about it for the south side... now to head up north."



"You know, normally I'd complain about treasure sucking like this, but I'll take what I can get."

Like the Bravant II, the Stonard II is just an upgraded Stonard, giving more of a defense buff for a little while. Or in my case, providing money bcecause I never use these things and tend to just pawn them. :v;



"I'm sure as hell complaining about this, though. Who built this place?"

"No one knows for sure! It seems natural, but the stairs and doors imply otherwise, so w-"

"You don't need to answer rhetorical questions!"

"Well he COULD have just wanted to know..."



I skipped over showing off what's in those upper doors for a simple reason - there's nothing in them. One is a one-tile closet, the other is a two-tile slightly larger closet. This floor has a great deal of nothing on it.

"Argh! I can't see!"

Unpleasantly, the attack they use to cause Blind is called Thorn. Ick. Anyone who has played an RPG can guess at what Blind does, as it shoots your accuracy to hell.

"I... am going to have to be very careful taking that out. It's kinda tricky to tell where the thorn ends and the optic nerve begins."

"I'm starting to wish I had thorns in my ears, too, so I wouldn't have to hear that."



"There'd better be something worth wandering through all these doors for, I'm getting sick of fighting bears already."

"You might say that you can't bea-"

"Stop! It's a bad pun and you already had it shot down once!"

:(



:signings:

"I retract any complaints I may have had. This floor aint so bad if it's paying for our beer!"



"Seems like we're done with it now, though."



"So... the next floor up starts with a great, long corridor. This bodes well."



Don't check this! It's another of those one-way, no warning things. Go out here and you'll have to go the whoooole way around again.



"More birds! Hah, with a name like Firebird I wonder if it comes already cooked?"

"Probably not, but we'll find out soon enough!"

These things can Corrode you like Mandrakes, lowering the party's defense, and they hit decently hard. Fortunately, they're not that hard to kill.



"Starting to sense a pattern with these rooms..."



"These plants send the party to sleep
Oh, it makes me want to weep
They hit us so hard
I forget I'm a bard
And start seeking a chimney to sweep.

...zzzzz"

I am not a big fan of these things. If any party members are awake, they use nothing but Sleeper, a move that tries to hit the whole party with Sleep, which has high accuracy. If everyone's asleep, they'll hit a random party member for a fair bit of damage.

Sleep seems to double any damage you take, though you do wake up instantly. It's still unpleasant, and if you encounter these with other enemies, it can be a real problem.




If the whole party is sleeping, you just get this message. Seeing as these plants come in groups of two, I got to see this a fair bit.



"You know what? I feel like we probably shouldn't be here. There's nothing here, and the PLANTS are kicking our rear end."

"Yeah... I can still barely keep my eyes open..."

"I'm just glad mine are still in my skull. Eesh."

Okay, going to be totally honest here - I kinda goofed here. This place will be significant later... but it isn't yet. I got slightly mixed up about the order that things happen in, so this little adventure was, uh... not exactly a waste of time, but not quite what I was planning on doing.

Also, it's worth noting that all the rooms in the area look similar, and are. It's a little grid of 3x3 rooms, some of which hold a nasty surprise - if you try to walk over the centre tile, an FOE may just pop up out of it and attack you. If you're not abusing immunize and defender, these things will probably murder you. Horribly.


"Yeah. Let's call it a day, we can get back to going deeper into the labyrinth tomorrow."



"Hm. I half feel like I just wasted my time... but we did get some nice stuff out of it."



"I still can't believe I got taken out by a plant. A PLANT. I don't care if it was big, I'm meant to be slaying undead, not getting slayed by foliage!"



"After that, I'm gonna have to look into getting a helmet..."



"It's funny... at first, I was doing nothing but healing these guys, now I make sure they barely ever need it. It's nicer this way, I think!"



"Finally, my mastery of electricity is catching up with my poison skill! You might say my developments are quite SHOCKING!" :science:



"...He spends all day yelling at me for bad puns then comes out with that?! Er... prithee, Alvis, stop being such a prick, forthwith."

New shop stuff!



Chain mail is bloody brilliant. It gives the same defense as Plate, can be worn by every non-mage class, and doesn't have any speed penalties. It requires 3 stingers and 5 Steel Lumps, so it can take a bit of farming to get, as Steel Lumps aren't the most common thing, but it's so very worth it.



The broadaxe is pretty nice, too, with a good amount of attack, and a reasonable price... only problem is it's an axe. It requires 5 Steel Lumps, so you'll get it while trying to get Chain Mail anyway.



The star charm isn't anything that special - it requires 3 Star Seeds to make, and if you feel a party member needs more TP than defense, throw it on 'em! Now that we're out of the horrendously TP-starved early game, I tend to start favouring defense/TEC over more TP.

More TP never really hurts though.




This, however, is VERY nice. The Edge Whip is expensive, but it's a huge upgrade for dark hunters, giving Richter some surprisingly impressive damage output. It requires a gum vine, which drops from Petaloids, those plant-bastards that love sending everyone to sleep, and a Bent Claw from sloths. If you're using a dark hunter, this is well worth the cost.

Blimey, this ran rather long.

Death Dealer
Jul 25, 2006

I think when I went through EO1 I never worried about much defense on my back line and just loaded the Medic and Alchemist up with +TP/+Tec items. My Survivalist, on the other hand, got a lot of the +Agi defensive items because I had a tendency to use the first round to have it either set up the 3-turn shot if it was a FOE or throw out the Survivalist buffs/debuffs depending on how concerned I was about the fight.

In EO3? My Monk is a front line person, so that +TP/+Tec focus is tempered by not wanting my healer to be taken out in one lucky hit. :v:

I'm not sure I ever actually fully explored behind the crystal doors, but I'm reasonably certain I did that with the B1-5 doors for reasons.

Those reasons probably just being "Oh yeah, I do have the key for these don't I?" and "Treasure is pretty cool."

Sacrificial Toast
Nov 5, 2009

Aw, and here I was expecting you to keep going and find something fun up there.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

Sacrificial Toast posted:

Aw, and here I was expecting you to keep going and find something fun up there.

That's what I was expecting, too! Unfortunately, it seems that the fun thing I thought was there doesn't show up yet.

Or I missed it, somehow, one of the two.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
So every dungeon level actually does fill up the whole grid, it's just that you may have to go up and down levels to get to parts of it?

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

Glazius posted:

So every dungeon level actually does fill up the whole grid, it's just that you may have to go up and down levels to get to parts of it?

Not always, no. We've seen the entirety of B2F, for example - it leaves sections D through F just completely blank.

It's pretty frequent that you won't see the entirety of a level on your first visit, though!

ShadeofBlue
Mar 17, 2011

100percentjesusfree posted:

That's what I was expecting, too! Unfortunately, it seems that the fun thing I thought was there doesn't show up yet.

Or I missed it, somehow, one of the two.

It doesn't show up yet, I think you have to accept a certain quest for it to appear.

LordSloth
Mar 7, 2008

Disgruntled (IT) Employee
Slightly off topic, is it worth hunting down a copy of Etrian Odyssey 2? I found a copy of 3, I'm just not sure whether I'm up for personally playing all three games of the series unless there is something especially worth not missing about EO2. Is it like Rune Factory (Go Straight to 3)?

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

2 is overall a more balanced version of 1, class wise. While 3 is rather different. Both are good.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

LordSloth posted:

Slightly off topic, is it worth hunting down a copy of Etrian Odyssey 2? I found a copy of 3, I'm just not sure whether I'm up for personally playing all three games of the series unless there is something especially worth not missing about EO2. Is it like Rune Factory (Go Straight to 3)?
I would play 2 before 3. All 3 are solid games, but after playing 3, 1 and 2 feel pretty barebones to me - 3 added tons in the way of extra stuff to do and blew customization wide open. 2's still fun and all, but I'd try to get to it before 3.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

theshim posted:

I would play 2 before 3. All 3 are solid games, but after playing 3, 1 and 2 feel pretty barebones to me - 3 added tons in the way of extra stuff to do and blew customization wide open. 2's still fun and all, but I'd try to get to it before 3.

I can agree with this. I'd say that 3 is the best game, and if you can't find the others, there's nothing really wrong with playing that first, it just makes going back and playing the earlier games, if you do then find them, harder.

I'm already missing a bunch of stuff from it. :v: (And hoping to do an LP of it some time in the future, when this one's all done and dusted.)

Speaking of which, I've been doing a bit of reading, and survivalists, whom I kinda dismissed as being mostly good for farmbots, can apparently be pretty godly when it comes to damage output - anyone who used them much care to confirm/deny this? I might have to make one sometime soon, if anyone else is interested in throwing a character into the mix. (Another class breakdown should be coming in a little bit, too!)

E. Survivalist was snapped up by Dr Pepper!

There will still be 2 more chances to make characters, sooner or later!

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Sep 10, 2012

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!
Sorry to double post, but it's time foooor...

Class Discussion - Dark Hunters



With apologies to Richter, he was the one Dark Hunter who doesn't seem to have a bunch of nicely-sized pics easily available via Google. :v:

Dark Hunters are an interesting class. They can range from being kind of 'eh' to amazingly useful depending on the situation - which is probably something you'd expect from a class who focuses on status-effect based skills.

Unlike the mage's poison skills and such, however, most of their skills cause damage regardless of whether the status effect succeeds or not, which is a plus - it's generally more damage than a regular attack, too.

However, the trade off for this is that the chances of a status effect actually landing are generally pretty awful. Just as a brief comparison, an alchemist's poison move, at max level, has a 250% base chance of succeeding, yet still fails regularly against FOEs/bosses/generally resistant enemies. Dark Hunters have... a 70% base chance of their poison technique succeeding. On anything worth poisoning, it almost certainly isn't going to land.

I'm certainly not saying Dark Hunters are useless, however. They have some very interesting techniques, including one of the very small number (2, I believe) of instant death attacks in the game - which is, somewhat ironically, the more reliable one if I remember rightly.

Their choices of equipment is decent - they're the only whip users in the game, and can also use swords. They can wear a nice variety of armour, too, though the heaviest ones are off-limits. Stat wise, they don't exactly get massive amounts of HP for a front line fighter, but they sort of make up for that by being very, very quick, with high agility that makes them almost certainly go first, and be pretty decent when it comes to dodging.

All things considered, Dark Hunters certainly have their uses, but can be a bit situational at times.

Edit: while thinking about it, I noticed something - for the TP cost, their damage-boosting moves aren't exactly BAD, so in some ways, it's better to think of their status-inflicting moves as being a damage boost with an occasional extra effect as opposed to dedicated status-fuckery.

They have 3 stat-raising skills:

HP-Up

TP-Up

Atk-Up

And... I just noticed something interesting about these. It seems that some classes, this one included, have one stat raising skill that gives more of a boost than usual - in this case, TP-up winds up boosting their TP by 50% when maxed out, as opposed to 30. A Medic's HP up goes up to 50%, too, interestingly.

Whips

Swords

These two skills are basically identical, save for being for different weapons. You pretty much have to pick a speciality for your Dark Hunter, and stick with it. Personally, I prefer whips, as they have more interesting moves.

These act as prerequisits for all weapon specific moves, and also boost the dark hunter's damage when using the appropriate weapon. The boost starts at 10%, raises by 1% per level jumping to 19 at level 5 and 30 at level 10.

Boost Up

An interesting, if rather gimmicky skill, Boost Up requires 3 levels of Atk Up. It makes Boost more effective, increasing the effective level of skills used while Boosted... it's a pretty fine example of dark hunters being situational, too. It's pretty powerful when you're using Boost, but you probably won't be using it all THAT often.

It boosts by +1 at level 1, and increases by 1 every odd-numbered level. Yes, this means rank 10 in this skill is basically a waste of points.

Fury

A passive technique that requires 5 levels of Atk Up, and increases their damage when their HP is low. I'm... not very fond of this move, as I compulsively heal characters who are at low health, as I'd rather have them not dead than dealing a bit more damage.

For the first 5 levels, it only activates when at or below 30% of your HP, this threshhold then increases by 4% per level, capping at 50% at level 10. The boost starts at 10%, then raises by 5% per level up to level 5, when it stops, capping at 30%. Very situational, and again, not a move I particularly like.

Cloak

A technique that makes enemies less likely to attack the dark hunter. This can be useful, as dark hunters tend to take hits rather poorly, but most of the more unpleasant enemies in the Labyrinth have attacks that hit the whole party anyway, rendering this move less than useful against them.

It requires 3 levels of Tp-Up, and starts off costing 2TP, with a jump up to 3TP at level 5. At level 1, it decreases the chances of being targeted by 50%, increasing by 2% per level, jumping to 60% at level 5 and 74% at level 10.

Viper

A whip skill, requiring a single point in Whips, Viper causes damage and poison. I am not sure how much poison damage it does per level, as I don't really use it due to how low the chances of poison hitting when it matters are, and neither source I've been using sees fit to mention it.

It starts out doing 130% of the dark hunter's regular attack damage, with a 50% chance to poison, and a TP cost of 3. The TP cost raises by 1 every 2 levels, capping at 5, while attack damage raises by 5% per level, jumping to 180% at level 10. The poison chance raises by 1% per level, jumping to 59% at level 5, and 70% at level 10.

I am... really not very fond of this skill. Poison isn't super useful in the late game, and the low chances of it landing make this move fairly bad, in my opinion. I haven't actually used it much due to my dislike of it (Richter doesn't even have it, for example) though, so it might be that I'm missing out on something. Any goons who are more fond of it, feel free to chime in!

Gag

Shackles

Cuffs


A trio of moves used for binding that are more-or-less identical, save for requirements, and the area they bind. Gag requires 2 levels of whips, Shackles 3 and Cuffs 4, and they gag Head, Legs and Arms respectively.

Binding is very useful in this game - it can lock off a set of an enemy's attacks, cause them to waste turns by trying to use their locked-off attacks while they're unable to, and also each bind has a specific effect, with Head Binds lowering accuracy, Arms lowering damage, and Legs lowering evasion.

Unfortunately, these moves suffer, again, from dark hunter's low chances of status effects landing. They're still probably your best bet for binding for quite a while, however.

They all cost 3 TP to start with, going up to 4 at level 3 and 5 at level 5, with the same damage progression as Viper. The chances of status effects landing has a very odd progression, however... rather than trying to sum it all up, I'll just post it.

1 35%
2 36%
3 38%
4 41%
5 44%
6 45%
7 46%
8 47%
9 48%
10 55%

Despite their iffy accuracy, I still like to have a dark hunter focus on these at first - binding is very handy indeed.

Ecstasy

With a slightly dodgy name considering it involves attacking an opponent who is completely tied up with a whip, ecstasy is another situational move... but a very, very powerful one. It requires both Whips Up and Atk Up at level 5, and only works on an opponent who is fully bound (head, arms and legs), but it hits like a truck.

It costs 8TP at level 1, and the cost increases by 1 per level up to level 5... but at level 1, it deals 400% of their standard attack damage. This raises by 10% per level, jumping up to 490% at level 5, and 600% at level 10. Considering Dark Hunters can wind up with impressively high attack, if you can fully bind a target, this move is insanely damaging.

Climax

An interesting technique, Climax is one of the only instant death abilities that the party has access to. I THINK it's nearly 100% accurate, except on things that resist it... but it requires the target to be below a certain amount of health.

It also recovers your HP, based on the amount of HP you take from the enemy, and also apparently heals a little TP. It's been some time since I used it, so I'm not entirely sure for myself. It requires Whips to be at level 10, and costs 6TP at level 1, increasing by 1 every other level, capping at 8.

At level 1, it can kill and drain an enemy at 5% or lower HP, raising by 1% per level, jumping up to 14% at level 5, and 25% at level 10. This is another move I could complain about being situational... but I'm not going to. Situational as it is, instantly killing anything at 25% HP and getting healed from it is pretty useful, not to mention that it's the most reliable source of instant death, and one conditional drop requires instadeath to get it.

Hypnos

Requires Swords at level 1, making it the most basic of the sword skills, Hypnos causes damage and sleep. Sleep is actually pretty good in this game, as it disables an enemy for a few turns, and also makes whichever attack wakes them up cause double damage.

Sword techniques give slightly more of a damage boost than whip ones, and the status effects have slightly more chance of landing than the binds caused by whips. I still prefer whip techniques, though, partly for Climax, and partly because binds are really, really useful.

Also because it'd be a shame for all those whips to get made, then never used!

The damage starts at 140% of a standard attack, growing by 5% per level up to 165% at level 5, and 190% at level 10, while the chance of a status landing starts at 40%, grows by 1% per level jumping to 49% at level 5, and 60% at level 10. Starts off costing 3TP, grows by 1 every other level, then stops at 5. Considering that it's useful for both disabling a target and increasing the damage you deal to it, this is actually a pretty good technique - the only trouble is, again, on things that you'd really WANT to put to sleep, you probably don't have a snowball's chance in hell of pulling it off.

GeneralYeti here for the Dark Hunter's only dose of :eng101::

GeneralYeti posted:

Not much :eng101: this time, aside from the slightly sketchy allusions.

Hypnos is the Greek personification of sleep. He slept in a cave that was totally dark, without any sort of door so that he wouldn't be woken up by squeaking hinges.


Nerve

Requires 2 ranks in Swords, and is more-or-less identical to Hypnos, except it causes paralysis instead. I'm generally more fond of Sleep than Paralysis, though at least the latter doesn't wear off in a single hit.

From what I know of it, Paralysis makes you sometimes fail to use actions, and also fucks with your agility, I think. It may not wear off as fast as sleep, but it's still less impressive than being totally disabled for a few turns, and getting a hit that deals 2x normal damage.

Mirage

Requires 3 ranks in Swords, and is otherwise identical to the above two techniques, except it causes confusion. Confusion in this game is pretty nasty - it has more or less the usual effect, making the afflicted person attack at random, but unlike a lot of games, it's not healed when the person takes a hit. It does wear off on its own after a while, though.

Still, if you can land it on an opponent, it can have some fun results.

Drain

The first Sword move that isn't exactly the same as the others just with a different status, Drain requires Swords at level 4, and it allows you to hit an enemy and regain health from doing so.

The damage and TP cost are the same as others, but rather than having a chance at a status, the amount you are healed increases, starting at 50% of the damage you dealt, rising at 2% per level, with a jump to 68% at level 5, and 100% at level 10.

Noooot super fond of this move. It can take some pressure off the healer, yes, but if your dark hunter is in desperate need of healing, chances are they're probably dead. :v:

Bait

I'm not going to lie, I'm uh... not really sure how this ability works, having not used it. From what I understand, if the Dark Hunter is attacked after using this, he, and the allies next to him in his row, will then counterattack, but this might be a load of guff. According to something on gamefaqs, in Etrian Odyssey II, it also causes the Dark Hunter to counterattack if an adjacent ally is hit - not sure if this holds true here.

It needs Swords and ATK UP at 5, starts off costing 8TP, then increases by 1 per level, up to a maximum of 12. The damage dealt by the dark hunter starts at 100%, while damage dealt by allies starts at 70% - the Ally damage remains at 70% up 'til level 5, where it suddenly jumps to 100%, then increases by 10% per level, jumping to 160% at level 10. (in what I'm assuming is a typo, the japanese site I'm using claims it jumps to 1600%, but I somehow doubt that.)

The dark hunter's damage increases from 100% at 10% per level, too, jumping to 150 at level 5, and 220% at level 10. As I mentioned, I have not used this, so I have absolutely no idea how effective it is, so I uh... can't really comment. :v: Sorry! It does sound kind of interesting, though.

Petrify

Back on form, the final Sword ability, requiring Swords 10, is mostly a copy/paste of the other status effect inflicting abilities, just with a very lethal status. It costs a little more, starting at 6TP, winding up at 8TP by level 5, but deals the same damage and has the same chance of inflicting its status effect.

The main difference, of course, is that if this status effect lands, then the enemy's a statue and is completely hosed. This might as well be an instant death ability, of a sorts. Good luck getting it to work when you really need it to, though!

Take

Allows you to take enemies from the forest home with you and raise them on a little farm.

Just kidding. It lets you gather from 'take' points, shockingly enough. :v:

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Oct 3, 2012

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Just a note: Climax got stupidly buffed in EO2. In EO2, level 10 Climax works on enemies with up to 55% of their health left. There's a few enemies, including the second stratum boss, who have conditional drops requiring instant death, making a DH very, very, very good.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

100percentjesusfree posted:

if anyone else is interested in throwing a character into the mix. (Another class breakdown should be coming in a little bit, too!)

This sounds like a good idea.

Name: Alex
Class: Survivalist (Duh :v:)
Portrait: 2
Personality/Backstory: Very greedy. She forces her way into the guild because they're getting gradually more well known, and hey, that means if she joins now, she'll be rich.
Specialty: Bows

Rose Spirit
Nov 4, 2010

:33 < APEX PURREDATOR
I tended to use Viper quite a bit, because I got frustrated early on with Poison's low hit-rate leading me to focus my Alchemist more on elemental damage instead. Like you said about other skills, at least Viper does damage, even if the poison doesn't take hold right away. I guess I prefer damage output to bothering with strategy most of the time... :blush:

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008

100percentjesusfree posted:

E. Survivalist was snapped up by Dr Pepper!

There will still be 2 more chances to make characters, sooner or later!
Nuts. Beat me to it. I can't say I ever got much damage out of Survivalists, but their passives are great for exploration. A couple of their high end, non-weapon skills will completely neuter random encounters when paired with certain other classes.

I agree there's little point in playing the first two games if the third is available. The EO series has markedly improved with each installment. By all accounts the fourth game on the 3DS continues the trend, which is why I'm super annoyed Atlus hasn't announced it for the US by now. It's not as though they're plot-heavy games either. (Although I have some thoughts on the evolution of EO's metaplot... none of which I can discuss because it would spoil all 3 games. :smith: )

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

Rose Spirit posted:

I tended to use Viper quite a bit, because I got frustrated early on with Poison's low hit-rate leading me to focus my Alchemist more on elemental damage instead. Like you said about other skills, at least Viper does damage, even if the poison doesn't take hold right away. I guess I prefer damage output to bothering with strategy most of the time... :blush:

Nothing wrong with liking damage! A lot of me ranting about skills not being very good is just my opinion - for the TP cost and such, it's not too bad to think of most of those moves as just a straight damage boost that sometimes causes status effects as opposed to a status-effect move that causes a little damage (and barely ever works when you need it to)

Out of interest, do you remember what the damage from Viper's poison was like? Or at least, whether it was static the way an Alchemist's was, or changed based on the damage your DH does or something, I can't seem to find anything that says either way.

E. Also, Thanks Dr Pepper! That was quick.

Double e. Actually, now that I think about something, this is probably a bit late to ask, considering there're only two more slots that are going to open, (unless I delete some of the farmbots, which is plausible - I'm only really using two.) but I was wondering - is the way I'm handling character registration fair? IE, the whole 'first come first served' thing, or in future, should I do things a bit differently? (Also, any opinions on whether or not I should delete some farmbots to free up space? I'm starting to find grinding oddly relaxing, apart from when we get murdered by sloths/foliage, so I wouldn't be opposed to making a few extra characters, if people would like that.

Whew, I think I'm out of questions now. Sorry I ask so many! I have a lot of fun making this, and want to make sure everyone else enjoys as much as I do. :v:

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Sep 11, 2012

Death Dealer
Jul 25, 2006

100percentjesusfree posted:

Nothing wrong with liking damage! A lot of me ranting about skills not being very good is just my opinion - for the TP cost and such, it's not too bad to think of most of those moves as just a straight damage boost that sometimes causes status effects as opposed to a status-effect move that causes a little damage (and barely ever works when you need it to)

Out of interest, do you remember what the damage from Viper's poison was like? Or at least, whether it was static the way an Alchemist's was, or changed based on the damage your DH does or something, I can't seem to find anything that says either way.

E. Also, Thanks Dr Pepper! That was quick.

Double e. Actually, now that I think about something, this is probably a bit late to ask, considering there're only two more slots that are going to open, (unless I delete some of the farmbots, which is plausible - I'm only really using two.) but I was wondering - is the way I'm handling character registration fair? IE, the whole 'first come first served' thing, or in future, should I do things a bit differently? (Also, any opinions on whether or not I should delete some farmbots to free up space? I'm starting to find grinding oddly relaxing, apart from when we get murdered by sloths/foliage, so I wouldn't be opposed to making a few extra characters, if people would like that.

Whew, I think I'm out of questions now. Sorry I ask so many! I have a lot of fun making this, and want to make sure everyone else enjoys as much as I do. :v:

First come first serve works for this since it's a relatively low traffic thread (at least by active posters) and it keeps the momentum rolling pretty well.

If you plan to show off the other two classes (and perhaps learn something new about them) I'd ditch two farmbots so you can show them off and explain why you dislike them/like them now that you've given them another shot or whatever.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

Death Dealer posted:

First come first serve works for this since it's a relatively low traffic thread (at least by active posters) and it keeps the momentum rolling pretty well.

If you plan to show off the other two classes (and perhaps learn something new about them) I'd ditch two farmbots so you can show them off and explain why you dislike them/like them now that you've given them another shot or whatever.

Aha, thanks, and yeah, I'd hold more votes for stuff, but it'd take forever to get anything done then. :v: Still, if people in the thread'd prefer things that way, I don't mind!

I should probably clarify something, there are still two slots open - I'm just saying I could ditch up to 3 farmbots, for a total of up to 5 more. Regardless of whether I ditch some farmbots, I'm definitely planning on showing off the two classes we don't have yet - and who knows, maybe I'll learn to like them a bit more this time!

ShadeofBlue
Mar 17, 2011

LordSloth posted:

Slightly off topic, is it worth hunting down a copy of Etrian Odyssey 2? I found a copy of 3, I'm just not sure whether I'm up for personally playing all three games of the series unless there is something especially worth not missing about EO2. Is it like Rune Factory (Go Straight to 3)?

It would be best decide which ones you want to play, and then play those in order. Each game has enough improvements, especially in terms of how fast the battles take and other conveniences, that going back to an older one is kind of tedious. So if you want to play both 2 and 3, play 2 first. I definitely do think it is worth getting a copy of 2 if you enjoy this type of game.

LordSloth
Mar 7, 2008

Disgruntled (IT) Employee
I want to enjoy this type of game, but the accessibility (not difficulty) is a huge factor. Every time I look at the skill numbers in one of these character breakdowns, I roll my eyes. In game, you're so blind as to the returns, and most importantly, the game is so inconsistent as to what you actually get out of it.

I don't WANT to play this type of game with a FAQ up all the time. I don't mind consulting one to plan out things (and EO3 has that character builder), and I don't mind going without a plan and screwing up. I suppose I should try not distributing skill points till I've saved in town so I can try and reload if I don't like it. It's just that the skill system keeps distancing me from the actual game. I don't even mind being blind to the specifics as long as I have the feeling of some kind of consistency in returns on investing in a skill.

I'm actually trying to get in the proper mindset to play through EO1, because I feel I'm approaching it from the wrong mindset more than any real issue with it. That said, the skill sim for EO3 is a huge, huge part of why I was willing to pick up a copy, despite never finishing EO1.

LordSloth fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Sep 11, 2012

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

LordSloth posted:

I want to enjoy this type of game, but the accessibility (not difficulty) is a huge factor. Every time I look at the skill numbers in one of these character breakdowns, I roll my eyes. In game, you're so blind as to the returns, and most importantly, the game is so inconsistent as to what you actually get out of it.

I don't WANT to play this type of game with a FAQ up all the time. I don't mind consulting one to plan out things (and EO3 has that character builder), and I don't mind going without a plan and screwing up. I suppose I should try not distributing skill points till I've saved in town so I can try and reload if I don't like it. It's just that the skill system keeps distancing me from the actual game. I don't even mind being blind to the specifics as long as I have the feeling of some kind of consistency in returns on investing in a skill.

I'm actually trying to get in the proper mindset to play through EO1, because I feel I'm approaching it from the wrong mindset more than any real issue with it. That said, the skill sim for EO3 is a huge, huge part of why I was willing to pick up a copy, despite never finishing EO1.

One thing that's generally worth keeping in mind consistency-wise as it's a good rule of thumb throughout the series, especially in the first game, is that you'll generally want to plan to put 1, 5 or 10 points into a skill, as they tend to give the most significant boosts (with the odd exception here and there.)

All the games have a bit of a problem with skill levels being a bit opaque as to what they actually do - the only reason I have specific numbers is because I've been going through a Japanese site which lists them all as I post. :v:

But yes, if the skill thing is a serious problem, just starting with EO3 probably wouldn't hurt, that character builder is amazingly handy, plus the game itself is excellent.

Rose Spirit
Nov 4, 2010

:33 < APEX PURREDATOR

100percentjesusfree posted:

Nothing wrong with liking damage! A lot of me ranting about skills not being very good is just my opinion - for the TP cost and such, it's not too bad to think of most of those moves as just a straight damage boost that sometimes causes status effects as opposed to a status-effect move that causes a little damage (and barely ever works when you need it to)

Out of interest, do you remember what the damage from Viper's poison was like? Or at least, whether it was static the way an Alchemist's was, or changed based on the damage your DH does or something, I can't seem to find anything that says either way.

I think I raised Viper to level 5, and it poisoned regular enemies maybe a third to half of the time. Bosses and FOEs less so, of course, but they have so much HP I would usually just have my DH keep at it until it poisoned anyway because it was still stronger than her regular attack. Unless they had a particularly dangerous arm/head/leg move, of course. The poison was nowhere near an Alchmist's level of power, but though I don't remember specific numbers it was good enough damage to still be quite useful against HP blobs. I'm pretty sure it was a static number like an Alchemist's, though.

GeneralYeti
Jul 22, 2012

Look at this smug broken asshole.
Not much :eng101: this time, aside from the slightly sketchy allusions.

Hypnos is the Greek personification of sleep. He slept in a cave that was totally dark, without any sort of door so that he wouldn't be woken up by squeaking hinges.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!
Just chiming in to warn that the next update might just take a little while - university's resumed, and I've got some work that may wind up taking a big chunk of the weekend.

It's not helped by the fact that I'm working on a side mission in the game that, while it takes ages to complete, doesn't really leave all that many interesting opportunities for screenshotting. :v:

Still, I'm absolutely not abandoning this or anything! (Also, still interested to hear some thoughts on whether or not I should get rid of 3 farmbots or just keep things as is. Basically depends on how many more people want to make characters.)

HelloWinter
May 27, 2012

"Hey, Nagito, what'cha
thinkin' about?"

"Oh, y'know. Murder stuff."

100percentjesusfree posted:

Just chiming in to warn that the next update might just take a little while - university's resumed, and I've got some work that may wind up taking a big chunk of the weekend.

It's not helped by the fact that I'm working on a side mission in the game that, while it takes ages to complete, doesn't really leave all that many interesting opportunities for screenshotting. :v:

Still, I'm absolutely not abandoning this or anything! (Also, still interested to hear some thoughts on whether or not I should get rid of 3 farmbots or just keep things as is. Basically depends on how many more people want to make characters.)
Hey, no worries. University courses should be your first priority above all else.

On getting rid of the farmbots... Maybe you can get rid one at a time so that it doesn't get overwhelming? I have no idea if you still heavily use these three farmbots, but having new characters would be really, really fun.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!
Guess what's been abandoned?

If you guessed 'this LP' you were pretty wrong! I'm sorry, again, that the main update is taking pretty much eternity - this sidequest takes ages, and I've not really had the time to sit down and get on with it. That changed today, and I figured I'd do another of these as a quick little 'sorry this is taking so bloody long!' while I get on with it.

Class Discussion - Protector



I was cheating slightly with this pic - this is how Hector would look in Etrian Odyssey 2. Apparently, he turns into Brock somewhere along the way. :v:

Anyway, Protectors, AKA Paladins in the Japanese version. On my first run of Etrian Odyssey, I never really used a Protector, favouring a frontline of two landsknechts for some reason - this wasn't the best idea I've ever had. Protectors have a bunch of uses throughout the game, and really come into their own during the postgame, becoming pretty much necessary for survival.

They have a variety of useful techniques, and appear to have a natural strength growth that's actually a little higher than a Landsknecht, though the offensive passive abilities that the other class get still tend to put their damage output above Protectors. As you can probably guess from the name, damage output generally isn't a Protector's strongest suit. They don't have many offensive abilities, but their decent strength growth, coupled with the fact that they can use swords, generally means that they're competent at putting the hurt on random enemies you find. It's mostly just against bosses and FOEs that you'll wish they hit a little harder, but then, they'll probably be using other skills.

One odd thing that Protectors seem to have is that a lot of their skills, you'll only want to put 5 points into, rather than 10, for reasons I'll be going into later. This is kind of good, though, as they do have a lot of useful skills, so spreading their points around a bit isn't too harmful.

Equipment-wise, they can wear the heaviest armour in the game, and wield swords, making their equipment options generally pretty great, which compliments their stats fairly nicely. Chances are, a protector will probably be the last member of your team alive when things go south, simply because they're a wall of defense, health and defensive techniques.

HP-Up

TP-Up

Def-Up

HP up is exactly what you'd expect by now, giving 110% HP at level 1, and rising to 130% by level 10. TP up, oddly, gives the most significant boost, raising TP all the way up to 150% if maxed out, which could come in handy if you find yourself spamming a Protector's techniques. Def-up starts at raising defense 5%, and winds up at 15% - a fairly slight growth, but it's used in a bunch of other techniques. Plus, if all goes well, a protector will probably have a lot of health anyway.

Shields

Another passive, and one that I'm not 100% clear on what it does. It claims to raise elemental defense, but the Japanese site I'm getting skill data from says, according to Google Translate: "When equipped to shield, defense attribute is up X%"

Whatever the case, the skill's somewhat self-explanatory - toss a shield on a Protector, and it'll give you more bang for your buck in one way or another. It's also required by some moves, so there's that!

Just like Def-Up, it starts off at 5%, then raises by 1% per level, jumping by 2% at level 10, so it maxes out at 15% extra defense. If you have some skill points left over when whatever you're building your protector for is done, making him harder to kill is never a bad investment.

Aegis

Requires Def-up at level 5. Aegis is similar to a Medic's CPR skill - it basically means that when a protector would die, they have a chance of surviving the mortal blow with 1hp left. (providing they had more than 1 hp to begin with, I think.)

The odds start at 20% at level 1, raising by 1% per level, but jumping up to 30% at level 5, and 40% at level 10. It's... not one of my favourite skills, partly due to the fairly low chances of survival involved, but it can save your life sometimes, and make sure that your medic's heal spell hits a living target, rather than getting wasted on a dead one.

It's still not really one I'd rush to take, though.

En Garde

Yet another passive skill, this requires Def Up and Shields to both be at level 7 - definitely not an insignificant investment, but I'm still very fond of this skill. It basically gives a Protector a chance to completely nullify any physical attacks that go his way!

The chances are, unfortunately, fairly low - they start off at 10%, and grow by 1% per level, jumping to 16% at level 5, and 23% at level 10, but I still like it. Physical attacks will probably be hitting your protector often enough that that 23% chance will be enough to block quite a few over the course of the game!

Provoke

Finally into a protector's active skills. Provoke requires Def-up at level 1, and is a fairly good skill, in my opinion - it basically does more or less exactly what you'd think, drawing attacks towards the Protector. It's a bit useless on enemies that have multi-target attacks, but on enemies that tend to just do a single, big hit, it can be pretty good.

Unfortunately, most of the more threatening enemies do fall into the category of hitting everyone... nevertheless, I kind of like this skill. It starts off making the protector 60% more likely to be targeted, and maxes out at 100% more likely at level 5, growing by 10% per level. It only costs 2TP up to level 5, too, where it suddenly jumps to 3.

Notably, 100% more likely to be targeted does seem to just mean 'twice as likely' rather than 'will always be targeted', annoyingly. After level 5, extra skill points start giving a different benefit - a small defense buff (10% at level 6, up to 15% at level 10.) This is an example of a skill I'd only put 5 points into - the defensive buff isn't bad, so 6 points just to get the 10% wouldn't hurt, but at the end of the day, it's not the main thing that the skill is supposed to be doing.

Flee

Requires Def-up at level 3. The protector sacrifices some HP to get a good chance at escaping from a battle, and return to the previous floor in the process. Personally, I'd rather spend skill points on making my party better at winning fights rather than getting away from them, so I'm not fond of this skill. :v:

It CAN save your life at times, however, if you go to a new floor too soon and get in over your head. Still, I prefer to just play somewhat carefully, and carry warp wire. At level 1, it costs 4tp, and 50% of your HP, to get a 60% success rate... even if I liked what it was doing, that's not exactly a great risk/reward.

The chance of success grows by 4% per level, jumping to 80% at level 5, and 98% at level 10. The TP cost only increases to 5 when it hits level 6, which is the same time that the HP cost starts decreasing, by 5% per level.

Parry

This requires def-up at level 3, and is sort of like an active version of En Garde. Because you have to actually use it, and it only really benefits the Protector, it's not quite as high on my list of skills I like, but it's certainly not bad! The chance of success is vastly increased, so if you know your protector's likely to take a physical hit this round, it can force an enemy to totally waste their turn. It works well with Provoke, as a result.

It costs 4 TP to start with, growing to 5 at level 3, and 6 at level 5. To begin with, it gives a 70% chance of parrying an attack, which grows by 5% per level, jumping to 100% at level 5. After that, additional levels give it a chance of parrying successive hits - at level 6, you have a 5% chance of parrying more than one attack per round, which grows by 5% per level, jumping to 35% at level 10.

Being able to parry a bunch of attacks per round can be situationally useful, but isn't always. Having this up to level 5 certainly doesn't hurt, for those times when it comes in handy. Having it at level 10 could save you in some fights, but a lot of the time, the investment might feel a bit redundant.

Fortify

Requiring Def-Up and Shields at level 3, Fortify is... not a bad skill, but also not exactly great, in my opinion. It's a buff that gives everyone's (or perhaps just the Protector's?) defense a bit of a buff, which certainly never hurts.

Its TP costs are the same as those of Parry, and it starts off giving a 20% defense buff to the whole party, which grows by 3% per level. From level 5 onwards, however, the growth slows down to 1% per level, making levels beyond 5 largely pointless. Overall, whether it's a full party buff or just for the protector, it's not a bad skill, it just feels a bit redundant next to what's coming up next:

Defender

Oh boy. This requires Front Guard and Back Guard both at level 3, and I'm sure anyone reading the main updates knows exactly how I feel about this skill - it's very, very good. It's kind of an immunize-lite, in that it gives resistance only to physical damage (rather than everything), and it gives a little less of said resistance.

In fact, the way its resistance growth works is exactly the same as Fortify's defensive growths. There is, of course, a downside to this skill - it's TP cost is pretty bloody high for a class that doesn't get a vast amount of the stuff. It starts off costing 8, then grows by 1 per level up to level 5. Just like Fortify, levels in the skill beyond 5 feel kind of redundant, as the growth gets much less impressive.

Front Guard

Back Guard

These both require Shields at level 1, and are.. interesting little skills. They always activate at the start of a turn, regardless of speed, which can be very, very useful, and allow your Protector to take damage the place of the front/back line.

At level 1, he'll take 20% of the damage the line he defends would take, and this grows by 3% per level, up to level 5, where it jumps up to 35%... then proceeds to grow at a rate of 1% per level again. See what I meant about a lot of skills not being so great beyond level 5? :v:

TP-cost wise, they're not that bad, starting at 3, growing to 4 at level 3, and 5 at level 5. All in all, they can be handy skills, and seeing as you need 3 points in each to take Defender, they certainly don't hurt to have!

Antifire

Anticold

Antivolt

Planning on doing the postgame? Take these skills! These are what makes a protector so completely vital later on. Like the front/rear guard, they always go off at the start of a turn, and they provide the entire party with a level of resistance to a specific element.

It starts at 50%, grows by 10% per level, then at level 5, becomes complete immunity. Never take these skills beyond level 5, however - after level 5, it makes you start absorbing some of the damage as health, giving you a fairly pitiful amount (2% at level 6, grows by 2% per level), but it also has another side effect. Some elemental attacks have nasty side effects, including status effects and, in at least one case, instant death. Level 5 renders you immune to these status effects - level 6 and beyond means that they can affect you once again.

They start off costing 6 TP, grow to 7 at level 3, and 8 at level 5. They also require 5 points in Shields, and 3 in TP up, so they're a bit of an investment, but they are basically vital if you plan on taking on the game's superbosses.

Smite

A protector's sole offensive ability, and it's... not especially great. It requires a lot of skill points to get at (10 points in Shields, 5 in Fortify), is very costly in TP (10 at level 1, up to 14 at level 5), and for all that, the damage boost it gives isn't THAT impressive.

110% of your protector's normal damage at level 1, that grows by 5% per level, jumping to 135% at level 5, where it then slows down a bit, giving a 2% boost at level 6, then 3% per level through 7, 8 and 9, finally jumping to 160% at level 10.

It does, however, give a chance of binding the opponent's arms at levels 5 and above, starting at 10%, growing by 1% per level, jumping to 20% at level 10, which is... still fairly terrible, honestly. If you really want your protector to hit harder, go for it I guess? It's something I'd only go for if I had a load of leftover points I had nothing to do with.

Cure

Cure II

These require HP up at level 3 and 5, respectively, and are fairly similar to the medic skills of the same name, in terms of TP cost and such. They actually have a slightly higher base healing amount, but the protector's generally awful Tec scores means that that won't really make much difference. If you're relying on your protector for healing, things have probably already gone horribly tits-up, and these almost certainly won't save you.

I don't really advise putting points in them, basically. :v:

Stalker

Requires Def Up at level 5, and reduces the encounter rate for a certain amount of steps. I'm still not overly fond of this kind of ability... unless you're just making a trip for farming resource points, less battles means less experience, which is never good. It does also mean less getting beaten up, but if you can't handle the fights well enough to easily get through to where you're trying to go, you probably need more experience anyway.

Costs 2TP at level 1, and reduces the encounter rate by 30% for 30 steps. The amount of steps grows by 5 per level, jumping to 60 at level 5, and 100 at level 10. Cost increases to 3 at level 3, and 4 at level 5, and the encounter rate reduction stays static for the first 5 levels, before beginning to increase by 5% per level, starting at level 6.

Mine

The protector's resource-gathering skill. Still not something you want on main party members, most of the time!

E. Also, quick question when I was making the opening post for this LP, I wasn't really thinking, and just jumped into making the first post also the first update. A lot of LPs seem to use the first post more for information and such, and make the second post the first update, is it worth swapping them around or does it look okay as-is?

I swear I actually read LPs here before doing this, I was just kind of... not thinking, I guess. :v:

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Sep 28, 2012

Turncoat Mommy
Oct 3, 2010

I believe in you.
Don't worry, we're all willing to wait as long as you need for Keyser, who I assume is the crowd favorite.

Don't worry too much about the OP, if you want to fix it up fine, if :effort:'s icy grasp has a hold over you, that's fine too.

Rose Spirit
Nov 4, 2010

:33 < APEX PURREDATOR
Wait, Fortify is a full-party buff? :pirate: No wonder it was never incredibly effective on just my Protector.

Could I put in a request for Landsknecht next? I kinda stopped playing when my party hit 70, since I wanted to reallocate everyone's skills but I didn't really know what I was doing, and your skill analysis is really helpful. Whenever you get time for it or feel like it, of course, no rush. :)

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

Rose Spirit posted:

Wait, Fortify is a full-party buff? :pirate: No wonder it was never incredibly effective on just my Protector.

Could I put in a request for Landsknecht next? I kinda stopped playing when my party hit 70, since I wanted to reallocate everyone's skills but I didn't really know what I was doing, and your skill analysis is really helpful. Whenever you get time for it or feel like it, of course, no rush. :)

Er. That's a good point - I thought it was, but I might be completely wrong. :v: I've never actually used it, because whether it's full party, or just the protector, Defender is pretty much just straight-up better.

Can anyone confirm/deny whether it's the whole party or just the defender? I may have done a stupid thing. :v: I have access to all the numbers and such involved, but... well, I don't remember everything, and the sites don't always mention whether it's full party or what.

Also, sure thing! I probably should've done landsknechts first, to keep them in the order the game gives you them, but I kind of wanted to ramble about medics.

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Sep 26, 2012

GeneralYeti
Jul 22, 2012

Look at this smug broken asshole.
I got nothing. Sorry, no :eng101: for the Protector.

:shrug:

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!
Update 17 - The least-fitting sidequest for a portable game?

Welcome back! I'm sorry this took a while - a combination of me being busy with university work, and the sidequest being soul-crushingly tedious made this update take a lot longer than it needed to to write. :v:

The update might wind up being kind of short - sorry about that, I'll try to make up for it soon!


"There's a bunch of quests back at the pub we probably ought to check out and do - though I'm getting a bad feeling about one of 'em."

"Eh, how bad can it be?"



"Decided to take the request, have you? Good, I've been hoping someone would. Our client told me that while he was exploring the forest, a monster suddenly appeared. He wasn't prepared for a fight, so he ran... But when he came back, the monster was gone. Strange, isn't it? According to him, it happened on the 6th floor. Good hunting, kids."

"An unknown monster prowling the 6th floor? This definitely bears investigating... who knows what discovery we may make?"



"Decided to take the request, have you? Good, I've been hoping someone would. Every now and then, the Explorer's Guild assigns a trial like this to see who bites. It'll be rough, but it's also a good chance to test your skills. The challenge will begin at daybreak. Best of luck, kids."

Lemme take a minute to rant about this quest. It's very much worth doing, for a variety of reasons - I believe Sacrificial Toast mentioned a bit back that, if you do it 'properly' it puts you a ways ahead of the leveling curve for a good long while, plus the reward for doing it is pretty damned excellent, not to mention that the quest itself is pretty easy...

It's just also a real exercise in tedium. I decided to do a spot of maths to help illustrate my point. It seems to take roughly 30 'turns' per in-game hour - a turn can be a step on the map, or a turn in battle. Now, there are two ways of doing this quest - you can either do it legitimately, wandering around floor 8, murdering things then healing at the healing fountain when you need it, or you can spend 5 days in the room with the healing spring, not getting any experience, but getting the reward easily and relatively quickly.

Just to illustrate how long that would take, the quickest you can possibly do it by avoiding all combat: 30 (turns per hour) * 24 (hours per day) * 5 (days for the challenge) * 0.5 (seconds per turn) = around 1800 seconds, or half an hour. This is probably not how you're intended to do this mission, but it's the quickest it can be done - half an hour, in a handheld game with no quicksaves, and a mission you forfeit when you leave the floor. I can't help but think of this as being fairly poorly designed, seeing as most handheld gaming is probably done on the go, so a quest that's going to take half an hour if you basically cheat seems a tad inappropriate.

It wouldn't be quite so bad in, say, etrian odyssey 3 where you can quicksave and pick right back up, but in this game, it's annoying. Also, a turn in battle tends to take around 20-25ish seconds for me, if I know the skills I want to pick in advance, so the amount of time it takes adds up very fast.

Worst of all, it's hard to take any interesting screenshots, seeing as it's just wandering around floor 8 hoping no one dies. :argh:

Anyway, done ranting. Sorry about that! I just never liked this quest, even if the rewards are quite worthwhile.


"Ah, five days down in the labyrinth's halls
to prove our mettle, and the size of our ba-"

:mad:

"Sounds interesting. Should certainly help prepare us for whatever might lie ahead."



"Before we do that, though, let's scour the floor, see if we can find that mysterious monster."

"I can't wait! I wonder if I can get Serasmus to put this one on ice for me, too..."



The monster appears in this corridor, but only at a specific time of day - it only appears between 10am and... I think 4pm, though it might be 6. Notably, you can't really start the day at these times, your best bet is to come in at 6am, then wander that corridor 'til it shows up, which it won't do unless the quest is active.



"THAT is the unknown monster?! We killed a bunch of these things already!"

"Well, I guess whoever put that bill out hadn't."

:(

Yup. Just like the quest to find a spider on B5f, this is just a slightly out-of-depth monster that you should be able to curb stomp with ease. The point of this quest isn't so much the fight itself, as bringing up the idea that some monsters and such can be time-related, I think.

If this WAS supposed to be a challenging fight then I don't even know.






In any case, the results are predictable.

"What a letdown."

"Alvis, so upset by a flower
That soon, he'll just whimper and cower
He'll whinge and he'll whine
And lose all trace of a spine
when a salad he has to devour."


"If I had to eat a salad full of flowers, I don't think I'd be all that pleased, either."

"It's artistic license!"

"No, it's just stupid."

"Quit bickering, or I'll force feed the lot of ya what's left of that thing!"



"Welcome back, kids. I see... So that monster only comes out at certain times of day, huh? That explains why it was gone when our client went back to try and find it. Well, even monsters have their daily routine. I'm sure that creature isn't the only one."

"Right. Now, let's get on with that explorer's guild quest. Got the stuff we need?"

"Food, drinks, weapons. Check."

"Healing herbs and nectar, check!"

"Beakers, and enough equipment to keep up 5 days of lightning, check!"

"A spring in my step, a song in my heart, paper and quills..."

"...Good enough. Let's just get this over with."

I had to think for a while about who to pick for this venture - whoever goes into it will probably wind up way ahead of anyone else in levels. I eventually settled on the original 5 for a few reasons, partly because they're the party I tend to default to, but also for some other reasons.

I probably should have made and taken our brand new survivalist, but... well, she'd probably die. A lot. The healing fountain on B8 doesn't cure death, so that's an issue. Richter also suffers a bit from glass-cannon syndrome, and I generally wanted to avoid having to carry a dozen nectars with me.

On the plus side, they'll be able to power-level other party members more effectively with the boost in strength they'll get from all this.




"You mark it on a scrap of paper you brought....
[Five days remaining]"

"Alright. So if this is going to be our home for the next 5 days, let's scout it out properly."



"Oho, a hidden passage!"

"But it seems you cannot pass through from this side."

"Aww, nuts."



:argh:!!



"Hmm, more plants for gathering..."



"And another hidden passage!"

"But it seems you cannot pass through from this side."

"That we also can't use yet."

:(



"Aaand with this last plant-filled spot, that's everything of interest in this bit... let's go check out that northern corridor."

Red And Black



"You break into a cold sweat, sensing the presence of a formidable enemy. A dreadful beast unlike any you've encountered so far is lurking nearby!"

"Finally, a challenge! Let's mark the start of our five days here by slaughtering the strongest thing here."



Ominous.



"Huh. Even I'm starting to have second thoughts about this."

First thing this bugger did in battle was use Tornado, which does... well, this.



This is really bad, because Allslash, Dietrich's main source of damage, can't be used if the legs are bound. This is not off to a good start.

I did use defender and immunize here, but that's mostly because I'm trying to make a point...




Good as those skills are, they still won't save you when you're completely outclassed. This thing hits this hard even with both skills up!

Still, maybe we can still just about win in a damage race...












:gibs:

Or not. For the first time in quite a while, our party bravely embraced their guild name and ran for their lives - which I was pleasantly surprised by. I didn't think you could flee with bound legs, but I stand corrected!



"Run!"





Fortunately, it doesn't chase us outside of its room. This was still rather tense, though.

Anyway. We got everyone healed up, Nectar'd Dietrich back to life... then this happened.




(Thanks to Jeek for this!)



And another new enemy that's literally just a weaker version of an FOE. These things always made me jump at first!

They're definitely worth farming, though, as they give good experience, and their Iron Shells are pretty useful.




And this is what tends to happen when we get ambushed by these things. At least they made a few more turns pass quickly!



"You make a note on your tally sheet...
[Three days remaining]"

"Alright. Two down, three to go - all we need to do is avoid that Wyvern, and try not to let flowers make us pass out again."

"A snooze does sound nice right about now, though..."



As we were picking up a few levels, Alvis picked up a new skill.











It's pretty impressive.

"Wait, Thor? Aren't you supposed to be all about science?"

"Of course! Thor is perfectly scientific."

"What."

"Thor is awesome, science is awesome, thus Thor = science."

"I don't think that's how that works."

:science:!

"Just leave him to it."

I know the amount of screenshots don't really give the impression of it, but we've been through a lot of battles at this point. I can't really show them all off without it getting incredibly repetetive, though. But... well, Hector was level 24 at the end of the last update, and we were still only on the third day of this training when we got this message:



"There was a boy who wanted to meet a level 30 Protector. The protector in your party is at the level the child wanted to see now... Return to the pub and report in when you have time."

"Never mind reporting in, I think I'm going to make up for five days down here with 5 in the pub when we're done."

At around this point, I noticed I didn't have many interesting screenshots to break up the days... so I made a fun little gif that shows how most battles have gone, and what I was basically watching for quite a while:





"Resolved to see this through, you mark it on your tally sheet.
[One day remaining]"

"Finally. Just 24 more hours, and we can go punch everyone in the explorer's guild in the face for sending us off on this ridiculous test."



Another screen I had to spend a lot of time looking at - 60 items is not all that many, and your pack soon fills up, making you choose what to toss and what to keep.





You have no idea how relieved I was to see this.

"FINALLY. Let's go get paid."





"Has it been five days already? Welcome back, kids! Way to hang in there!"

"Already my foot. Get me a barrel of beer and a glass, I think the next five days are going to be a bit of a blur for me."

"Fine, fine. I'm not cleaning up after you, though. Everyone in town's talking about how Runaway was able to complete that trial. Nice going!"

"Hmph. It sucked while we were down there, but I think we all came out of it a little stronger. Also, making a name for ourselves is always good, I suppose."





A much shittier reward, but eh. If you have a protector in your party, you're bound to do this quest sooner or later.

"Welcome back. Goodness, you've become a strong protector... Well, let's go see the boy."

"drat right."

"The boy seemed pretty happy. He was in such high spirits... Come to think of it, he seemed pretty healthy... Well, at least he was happy, I guess."

Doing this unlocks the next quest in the chain...



Which we're not going to be doing for a while. We can't make Ronin yet.

For all my complaining about the quest, it's well-worth doing. The Hauberk is a great piece of equipment - it's a piece of mage-exclusive armour that gives +10 defense, and +4 agility, which is fantastic, and goes well on a medic to help them heal you up as quickly as possible. Or immunize you earlier.












Plus, the amount of levels you get from doing it properly is impressive - everyone in the party gained about 9-10 levels. In a game with a level cap of 70, that's pretty drat impressive!

Last but not least, we unlocked a LOT of new shop stuff, some of which is pretty great. So it's time for...


New shop stuff!


The first item we're looking at, and it's a pretty drat good one. Swords are a fairly commonly-used weapon type, and the attack boost from this thing is substantial. Definitely worth grabbing!

It requires 1 Iron Shell, dropped by those scorpions, and ten light wood.


The battle axe isn't bad if you're using axes - it's not too hard to make, requiring an iron shell and 5 steel lumps, and gives a nice attack boost. However, even if I was using axes, it would be rendered a tad redundant by...


Holy crap, look at the damage on that thing! It's head and shoulders above anything else, and I'm almost tempted to give one to Dietrich despite the fact none of his skills would work anymore. :v:

If you're using an axenecht for some reason, this thing will utterly crush your foes for a while. It needs 5 iron shells, and a Bird Limb found on Moas - those huge bird FOEs that wander around on B6f.


A katana! This is... utterly useless to us right now, because we have no Ronin. Welp. It's a nice step up over the previous katana, and only requires 3 iron shells, so it's easy enough to make.



The long bow is pretty good - it may not give the +tec of the beast bow that Keyser was using, but that actually doesn't matter really - a troubadour's skills generally aren't Tec based, and I don't THINK a survivalists are, either, making the +tec bow a little silly. The step up in damage is nice, too.

It needs 5 Gum Vines and a Tailbone. Tailbones are found on Firebirds, though they drop somewhat infrequently, or did for me.



Finally onto the armour, and this is great. Decent defense (though not as great as the hauberk) for anyone who isn't a landsknecht/protector, and some bonus TP to boot, what's not to love? It makes your squishies less squishy and makes them able to do a little more.

It needs 3 Feathers (also from Firebirds) and 3 Scent Wood to make.



Slightly heavier armour this time, the iron plate is also great - it can make any non-pure-mage class a hell of a lot tankier. Needless to say, Hector, Dietrich and Keyser are all a lot harder to kill, now. It requires 3 Iron Shells and 3 Stingers.



As if to make up for being excluded from the Oak Jacket, not that they'd use it, Protectors and Landsknechts get this monster of a shield, doubling the previous shield's defense and giving fire resistance to boot. This thing is a work of art!

It needs 3 Iron Shells and a Light Wood. See why I advocate farming iron shells yet? :v:



The plumed hat isn't all that bad, either! Mage-exclusive, and gives a nice boost to TP and a little defense. Nothing super groundbreaking, but still very nice. Requires 5 Feathers to make.



Last and... well, least, frankly, the lute. 5 gum vines, 5 light woods, for a troubadour exclusive item that does nothing but raise TP. Troubadours don't need that much TP, especially if they have relaxing. These instruments are, by and large, a bit poo poo.

And that's it! Sorry again for this taking so long, and probably not being the most fascinating update as it was mostly me complaining about this quest, but I'll try to keep them coming, and not get too bogged down with university stuff.

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Oct 2, 2012

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Man that must have taken forever. At least the game was kind enough to give a TP restorative on that floor.

Imagine if they didn't.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

Dr Pepper posted:

Man that must have taken forever. At least the game was kind enough to give a TP restorative on that floor.

Imagine if they didn't.

I'd rather not. :stonk:

On a more serious note, yeah, it took ages - wasn't helped by the fact that it gets really repetitive walking down the same corridor over and over again, fighting the same fights, so I had to take breaks now and then to maintain my will to live. :v:

  • Locked thread