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So, I've never played these games, but are you only allowed to have 5 guys in your lineup at any one time? I was under the impression it was 6.
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Jul 4, 2012 05:58
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No, it's only five at a time. Apparently there were plans to have six but somewhere along in develop, it was decided that you the player would be limited to five team members, so that way you always feel like you're short one person of a perfectly well balanced party. And it does work, I can't ever seem to put together a party that doesn't have a few short comings until near end game.
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Jul 4, 2012 06:02
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100percentjesusfree posted:
Go, hunter! You don't belong in this party! I could see the party bouncing back and forth between the two of them, unable to decide which is the more annoying one to put up with. That could be an interesting way to show off the other classes you have to unlock later, as well.
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Jul 4, 2012 06:02
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Captain Bravo posted:So, I've never played these games, but are you only allowed to have 5 guys in your lineup at any one time? I was under the impression it was 6.
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Jul 4, 2012 06:02
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e: Beaten twice.  The updates are fine to me, and I'd say bring the
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Jul 4, 2012 06:04
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Gotta say I loved this update. You're style's improving, I think. The characters definitely seem to be getting more personality--Richter flagellating himself for being undead was fantastic.
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Jul 4, 2012 06:42
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Enjoying the LP, makes me want to go back to trying to beat this game. 4th Stratum, I hate you so...  I think your characterizations are fine, by the way. It's fun to read.  Also, in the last update, right after Dietrich gets confused, you say Hector does. 100percentjesusfree posted:
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Jul 4, 2012 09:44
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"Mein Kopf dreht!"
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Top Hate and Suit posted:Enjoying the LP, makes me want to go back to trying to beat this game. 4th Stratum, I hate you so... Err, oops. Thanks, I fixed that! And thank you, everyone! Hearing that people are enjoying it only makes me more happy to keep going at it. Also, Genocyber, I've not forgotten the other characters (unless some slipped by without me noticing), just that I'm planning on waiting 'til we're a little further into the game, so I can level them up quickly. Grinding at this point in the game is rather slow, especially without FOEs. 100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Jul 4, 2012 |
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Jul 4, 2012 10:38
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Woo, Etrian Odyssey. This LP owns bones, and so does the series. I got to the final plot boss in this game, but my party was so horribly configured I had to use the re-skill feature, and really, really didn't want to grind back those 10 levels. Even with my gimp skillset I didn't find the game too hard, though. Three kicked so much rear end, and I did almost all of the end-game content. I couldn't even begin to touch the final boss though. I wanted a conservative party initially, but it ended up hilariously defensive. I'm sure I'll do a new game+ on that, and pick a group with actual damage abilities. The second one though, gently caress... I don't know what I did wrong, but regular dudes in the third stratum would demolish me all day everyday, and I couldn't get any further. It's a shame, since the story really pulled me into that one. Overall my biggest problem in these games, I think, is that I don't make the effort to do proper mining, etc. Three made it trivial with experience sharing farmers that avoid all enemies, which is probably why I was successful at that one moreso. Anyways, if you wouldn't mind, every 10 character levels or so can you show your skill point allocations? I find the tedious details interesting.
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Jul 6, 2012 01:55
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Thanks for the LP - I have been enjoying it so far. That said:100percentjesusfree posted:
Would  work? 
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Jul 6, 2012 02:14
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It is time for Keyser's moment of glory, and that moment should last the entire rest of the lp. He is the inspiration for victory.
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Jul 6, 2012 03:22
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Lazy Programming posted:It is time for Keyser's moment of glory, and that moment should last the entire rest of the lp. He is the inspiration for victory. Yes, he inspires them to hurry up and win already so they can stop traveling with him.
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Jul 6, 2012 03:33
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The traditional Bard role then? Let's face it, they get a really bad reputation thanks to a certain bard in a certain overquoted movie. Well and years of Dungeons and Dragons players going "This guy can't kill worth a drat, why would I ever want to be a fruity bard?" Poor Alvis just can't science FOEs fast enough, but eventually he'll stop dying so much. Maybe. I'm also all for Keyser returning because it means that the elements that a certain Scientist isn't going to learn can still be covered by judicious application of Dragonforce (read: Through the Fire and Flames) and Iced Earth...or something more appropriate, you know, whichever. Death Dealer fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jul 6, 2012 |
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Jul 6, 2012 03:51
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Death Dealer posted:The traditional Bard role then? FFIV isn't a movie. I'm pretty sure Edward was the first Spoony Bard. Though I don't know how the class played in FFIII, it's one of the few I haven't played.
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Jul 6, 2012 04:20
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Bruceski posted:FFIV isn't a movie. I'm pretty sure Edward was the first Spoony Bard. Though I don't know how the class played in FFIII, it's one of the few I haven't played. Poorly, but probably better than not-GBA Edward. FFV bards are where it's at. Confuse/Stop entire enemy encounters, murder all undead, or buff like hell. I didn't realize Atlus made these, that makes the games' contempt of the player make a lot of sense.
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Jul 6, 2012 04:32
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You know, I'm somewhat happy that FFIV came to mind before Monty Python and "Brave Sir Robin ran away!" Although yes, the whole spoony bard thing overstayed its welcome too. I also may be pulling for Keyser because I barely used a Troubadour in my runs and I'm curious what I'm missing.
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Jul 6, 2012 04:44
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:
Strangely enough, I had the exact opposite problem with EO2: My party setup was ridiculous offensive and murdered common dudes all over. But my party also burned through their TPs in likewise ridiculous short time -which made almost every boss fight end the same way: My party burning through their TP in a few rounds, followed by embarrassing amounts of slaughter. (Every ten or so tries I would get lucky and advance, though. )The third game is undoubtly my favourite, thanks to lots of methods to conserve or even regain TP. Well and travelling around the world with a ship was fun, too.
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Jul 6, 2012 13:55
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Libluini posted:Strangely enough, I had the exact opposite problem with EO2: My party setup was ridiculous offensive and murdered common dudes all over. But my party also burned through their TPs in likewise ridiculous short time -which made almost every boss fight end the same way: My party burning through their TP in a few rounds, followed by embarrassing amounts of slaughter. (Every ten or so tries I would get lucky and advance, though. Whereas I found the ship travelling section extremely tedious that absolutely required a guide to make the exact right steps.
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Jul 6, 2012 14:10
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Libluini posted:Strangely enough, I had the exact opposite problem with EO2: My party setup was ridiculous offensive and murdered common dudes all over. But my party also burned through their TPs in likewise ridiculous short time -which made almost every boss fight end the same way: My party burning through their TP in a few rounds, followed by embarrassing amounts of slaughter. (Every ten or so tries I would get lucky and advance, though. (For the uninitiated: The War Magus class could learn Cursecut, which did a large chunk of damage to a cursed enemy and siphoned TP, and Transfer, which could give the WM's TP to another party member. Add in a Hexer to curse trash mobs (and you really wanted a Hexer) and you never had to worry about it.) Admittedly that didn't really work on bosses, but that's what Amritas were for!
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Jul 6, 2012 14:57
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That's a niggling problem I have with the series, really. There are always combos that make the game wildly easier, if not trivial in some instances. Problem is that those combos usually aren't with classes I want to play. I want to play with the classes I find cool or most fun, and that doesn't always lend itself to a party worth using. This just winds up discouraging me.
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Jul 6, 2012 19:43
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Update 8 - The Spoony Bard's Return "So let me get this straight. Richter left in the middle of the night, muttering something about vampires?" "Yup." "...And no-one new seems to have signed up recently?" "Nope." "Fantastic. So we choose between going in undermanned, or-" "Alas, it seems that without my aid, your chances of victory shall be frayed." "Joy. Let's just get this over with, and see if we can find anymore ragelopes. With any luck, their screaming will leave me deaf." "I bought a few thingsUsed a bunch of guild funding I feel much better." Sadly, even with Keyser kitted out wtih the best gear I could get him at this point, he's still lagging behind everyone, partly because his level is much lower, and partly because both the bows currently in the shop are arse.   "Hm? Our map's showing some of the FOEs we killed walking around again..." "It's a map. How is it s-"  "Forget I asked."  All the faffing about I'm doing with FOE murder, sleep and grinding rather than just pushing through floors as fast as I can kind of resulted in this - FOEs respawn once every 7 in-game days, which can either be annoying (if you spend a game week painstakingly clearing a floor of FOEs then go back to find another one there) or really handy if you want to farm them. In this case, it's mostly good, because Keyser got a lot of exp for helping take down a Ragelope.  "'Nother new floor. Wonder what'll be waiting to try'n kill us on this one."Anyway, as soon as we step into the next stratum, we're greeted by some genuinely rather scary music (Which I cannot find anywhere ) and this lovely warning. Even new adventurers such as yourself can clearly feel the overwhelming sensation... It is the specter of death, looming over you as you prepare to face unknown dangers. Take heed! Beasts red of tooth and claw run rampant here! Fleeing from these creatures is no shameful thing. In these depths, survival is paramount! The game isn't really kidding here. As you can see, the first room of this floor has a red FOE in it - this one's pattern is a little unusual. It chases you, but stops every 3 steps - these rooms are meant to be treated like a bit of a puzzle, to avoid the FOE, as it's a long way more powerful than the ones on the previous floor.  But really, where's the fun in that? "Charge!" "We're all going to die. Again." "I'll try not to step in you this time!" "...I wondered why it felt like I had a footprint on my lung." Ahh, stalkers. First time I played the game, I soon found myself terrified of these things. Their introduction, horrifying appearance, and even more absurd strength all combine into a rather unpleasant package. "Holy- look at that thing!" "Now we must stand side by side, fight together and with pride!" "Er."Reason 1 why these things are horrifying - their basic attacks can one-shot our resident Landsknecht, despite him wearing the best armour he can have at this point.   Reason 2 - they have an attack called 'scythe', which seems to basically be a regular attack that does more damage. Enough damage to hit our protector for more than his max health, through him using a defense-buffing skill. "The better part of valour is discretion, in the which better part I have saved my life." "Oh no you don't. This thing's not looking so great either!" Things aren't looking so great at this point...  Which makes this sight a very welcome relief. And once again I forget to screenshot the reward screen! !As for how I won that - let me just say again that poison is amazing at this stage in the game, and if you plan on hunting FOEs, you're probably going to need a poison-tastic alchemist. We got absurdly lucky in that Alvis managed to land his poison attack on the first turn - in doing so, he guaranteed us a win. Everyone else hits for 20-30 damage on most opponents, while Alvis' poison was hitting for upwards of 160 per turn. This thing has 600 health (about twice as much as the Ragelopes on the last floor), and while it pretty much will outright kill one member per turn, it couldn't quite kill us all fast enough. "Oh hey, I was one of the only survivors! That's a nice change." "With joy, I think I could cryI thought we were going to die But we really should flee Just you and me Or just use that warp wire to fly." "That could've been phrased much less terribly, but yes, we're leaving. I'd rather not mar one of the few times I survive one of these drat fights by getting killed by something else immediately after."While I forgot to screenshot the rewards screen, I remmeber what we got pretty well. Alvis and Keyser got 300 exp each, showing that these things give twice as much exp as those bulls back on the previous floor, and a Scythe, an item that sells for 900 en. It's rather telling of just how you're not really supposed to be fighting these things yet. These things also have a conditional drop, which we won't be seeing for quite a while - the Harvester, which requires us to kill it one turn. Anyway, after some quick healing, we briefly head back to the third floor...  And swiftly run into these goofy-looking things. "Is this an animal or a plant?! I must dissect it and find out!" "We really don't have time for this. You can take a look at them after we cut 'em up." "Then I'm taking their carcasses back to town when we're done!" "...what. Fine, we need to turn in that quest about having reported on ten monsters anyway." "Couldn't we have done that just after fighting the stalker?"    "Welcome back, kids. Yikes, you had to go all the way down to the 3rd floor for this? Well, thanks for your hard work. As you go further, the rest will practically fill itself in." "Hm. Couple of new quests, too."  "...A quest at making a dying kid's wish come true? I dunno if I'm 'excellent' enough for him yet, but you can be drat sure I'm gonna take care of this one."The first of these two new quests we've pretty much already done - it has to do with that trapped 'resting' spot that spawned venomflies. The second just requires you to have a level 20+ Landsknecht in the party. Dietrich's not there yet, but if you use one regularly, this quest is basically free stuff for training you should be doing anyway. Also, apologies for the short update, I'm trying to stick with keeping them coming as quickly as I can, but am not sleeping too well, lately, so I've not been able to get much done, and just wanted to make sure things kept moving. As requested by Orcs and Ostriches, every ten levels or so I'll give a breakdown of how I'm spending skill points - and most of the party are around that point, so this seems like a good place to start.  Hector has 1 rank of Def Up, and 1 rank of Shields, both of which passively raise defense and are used as prerequisites for certain skills. He has 5 ranks of Provoke, a skill which causes enemies to be more likely to target him - at rank 5, the chance of enemies attacking him stops increasing, and additional ranks just give a speed/defense buff to him when using it. He also has 3 ranks of Front Guard and a rank of Back Guard, both of which give a chance of significantly reducing damage taken by the appropriate row, and like quite a few protector skills, automatically go first in battle, which is why Agility isn't a huge deal for them. He's suffering a little from me changing my mind about what I planned to do with him halfway through, but he's still doing quite well for himself, and is currently being built towards taking Defender, a defense buff for the whole party.  Dietrich has 5 ranks in both Swords and Axes, both of which passively raise attack with their respective weapon, and the latter of which he's probably never going to use. Unfortunately, 5 ranks in both is required to get 2-hit, and 2-hit is required to get the best sword technique, Allslash, so not much I can do about that. He also has a rank in Cleaver, a fairly simple damage-boosting skill. As I talk about this, I should mention one annoying little problem that's prevalent throughout the EO series - it never really tells you specifically how much a skill will boost something by. It generally just has things like damage (up arrow) or cost (down arrow), sometimes with multiple arrows to imply a greater boost - if you'd prefer specific numbers, I can try to hunt down a list that actually tells you more about what skills do.  Jill has 1 rank in TP-up, which increases her max TP, 3 ranks in Healer, which boosts all healing skills a little, 2 ranks in Patch Up, which provides passive healing at the end of each battle, 3 ranks in Cure, a single-target healing spell, and 3 ranks in Salve, a whole-party healing spell. Veterans of this game can probably see what I'm building her towards, and for those who can't, it'll give me something fun to talk about in a future update.  Alvis has 1 rank in TP UP, 1 rank in Volt Up (which is a prerequisite for lightning skills, and boost their damage), a point in Toxins, which is the same as Volt Up but for poison, one rank in Volt, the basic single-target thunder spell, then 8 ranks in Poison. I probably went a little overboard seeing as his gimmick is supposed to be about lightning/science, but it's nice to be able to show off FOEs, and each rank of Poison (the single-target poison spell) increases damage by a lot, and the chance of the spell succeeding.  Finally, Keyser. Keyser has TP Up 3, Songs 3 and Bravery 3. Songs does nothing by itself, but is a prerequisite for all of his various buffs, and Bravery is a fairly simple (but useful) strength buff. Unfortunately, the song I really want ('Relaxing') requires 7 ranks in songs, and 5 ranks in TP Up. It is, however, incredibly useful as it provides the party with passive TP regeneration while in use. I'll talk about Richter once he's back in the party, I think. New Shop Stuff!  Just the one item this time, but it's a good one. The cut charm gives a defense buff, and a fairly significant HP buff - I've put one on Hector immediately. It requires 1 Scythe, which drops from the Stalker. Good luck getting one if you're unlucky/don't have a character built around slaughtering FOEs, though. Monstrous Codex        Also, check out the stats on that Stalker. Yeesh. Ah, another thing to mention - if an enemy has an item in the third slot in their item list, it tends to be a conditional drop. In the Mandrake's case, the conditional drop is Charcoal, which requires you to kill them with fire. Double also, is fantastic, Jeek! Thanks.
100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jul 7, 2012 |
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Jul 7, 2012 05:34
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I never really invested much in the stat boosting skills in EO, except for a single rank in TP/HP Up. One thing consistent through the series is that the first rank of these skills gives a flat 10% bonus, but the rest of the skill is something like 30-40% spread evenly across the remaining 9 points. So while one point is a strong investment, the rest are pretty inefficient.
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Jul 7, 2012 07:57
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I really wanted to get into this series since I'm hankering for a balls hard game similar to Strange Journey but the ridiculous prices on amazon quickly swayed me.
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Jul 7, 2012 09:30
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Marogareh posted:I really wanted to get into this series since I'm hankering for a balls hard game similar to Strange Journey but the ridiculous prices on amazon quickly swayed me. They're not that expensive, last time I checked. And you should always check your local Gamestop, if you have one (or whatever your equivalent is); I managed to snag a new copy of the third game for $20. 100percentjesusfree posted:As I talk about this, I should mention one annoying little problem that's prevalent throughout the EO series - it never really tells you specifically how much a skill will boost something by. It generally just has things like damage (up arrow) or cost (down arrow), sometimes with multiple arrows to imply a greater boost - if you'd prefer specific numbers, I can try to hunt down a list that actually tells you more about what skills do. Here's such a guide if you decide to do so. There's also a similar guide for EO2 on GameFAQs, though I've not been able to find one for the third game.
Genocyber fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 7, 2012 |
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Jul 7, 2012 15:33
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Well drat me forever. I started EO3 again.  (And I don't have a Hoplite this time.  )
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Jul 9, 2012 16:27
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Real men go without the healer too. 
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Jul 9, 2012 18:04
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You guys are insane. (in a good way)
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Jul 9, 2012 18:08
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Sacrificial Toast posted:Real men go without the healer too. I'm not about to try it on my very first playthrough of it, but that's probably a LOT more viable in EO3 than the others since you have the Princess and her multiple passive heals. Although I have to say, the Monk does some decent damage on top of decent healing so it's pretty nice to not just have your healer defending when everyone is capped off. Don't get me wrong, you could always go without a healer, but you basically have to be functionally insane to grind items that heavily or be playing on an emulator with whatever speed up function I suppose.
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Jul 9, 2012 18:28
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Death Dealer posted:I'm not about to try it on my very first playthrough of it, but that's probably a LOT more viable in EO3 than the others since you have the Princess and her multiple passive heals. Although I have to say, the Monk does some decent damage on top of decent healing so it's pretty nice to not just have your healer defending when everyone is capped off. Well, I would call a Prince/Princess a healer, and it's no problem to make it through the main game without a monk, that's how I did my first play through of 3. You don't need a point of healing vs. anything other than bosses, since with a Prince you regain up to 10 health per step. What's the stance on spoilers in this thread? I mean, there isn't too much of a plot, and I wouldn't want to spoil what the 5th stratum reveals, but I mean in terms of what roles certain classes can play in the late game, and discussing what abilities are overpowered/etc.
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Jul 9, 2012 20:49
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This is a cool lp for a cool game, but for anyone new to the series please just skip to the third game, it's just so much better.
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Jul 9, 2012 20:56
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It's so ingrained in my head at this point that you Need a Tank/Healer/X/X/X after doing postgame content for EO2 and 3 that I can't even fathom running without their equivalents. I'm still mostly in the dark about how viable it would be to skip a protector or medic in the first game though. Maybe an update where you get horribly murdered or a fantastically successful without either or both would be worthwhile.
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Jul 9, 2012 21:27
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Genocyber posted:Here's such a guide if you decide to do so. There's also a similar guide for EO2 on GameFAQs, though I've not been able to find one for the third game.
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Jul 9, 2012 21:30
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Genocyber posted:
Thanks! I had a look at that guide before, but it seemed a tad inconsistent - sometimes it provided exact values for stuff, other times, not so much. As for the stance on spoilers, I'm fairly lax - I'd prefer people not to spoil anything that happens story-wise, and stuff from stratums we haven't yet seen, partly because I've forgotten a fair bit myself, and it's fun rediscovering things, and partly because it just makes it less fun for people. As for discussing overpowered abilities and such, I don't mind too much. I'd sliiightly prefer spoiler tags when talking about abilities I've not mentioned much, but I'm not going to flip out if people don't use them - not unless people in the thread would prefer I take a more harsh stance. I've also been toying with the idea of doing some more in-depth class analyses than I did in the OP as I go through the game, as kind of in-between updates. My updating has slowed down a bit since I started, due to a few things going on in real life, so I was just wondering if people are interested in seeing more mechanics-focused stuff like that here and there, or if I should just stick with what I've been doing so far. Also, Shabadu... you can definitely make do without a protector for much of the main game, my first run through this had me running two Landsknechts as a front line, and an alchemist/survivalist/medic back line, but playing without a medic in this is a terrible idea. They're pretty much brokenly good, for reasons I'll cover in a class rundown update if the thread would like to see me do those.
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Jul 9, 2012 22:50
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I'd like to see a mechanics/skills post sometime. This is a difficult game where is fairly easy to screw yourself with skill selection. Also, I've just picked up the game again to play along with the LP, and would like not to screw myself with skill selection.
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Jul 9, 2012 23:01
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Crassus posted:I'd like to see a mechanics/skills post sometime. This is a difficult game where is fairly easy to screw yourself with skill selection. I've not played this game, but doesn't the Rest mechanic only set you back 10 levels, with no other penalties? If so, all that means is that if you level up poorly, you just gotta do some grinding (admittedly I have no idea how hard it is in this game; it's very easy in the second one, at least).
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Jul 10, 2012 04:01
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Genocyber posted:I've not played this game, but doesn't the Rest mechanic only set you back 10 levels, with no other penalties? If so, all that means is that if you level up poorly, you just gotta do some grinding (admittedly I have no idea how hard it is in this game; it's very easy in the second one, at least). It really isn't that hard once your team is strong enough to wreck FOEs, and as you've seen with the LP you can do that from your first meeting with them technically, grinding the levels back up isn't TOO awful. It's even less so if you have certain abilities on heroes. Feel free to go into Mechanics and Class chat because some classes seem less useful at a glance, some seem super awesome but are actually not to much, and so forth.
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Jul 10, 2012 04:30
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Genocyber posted:I've not played this game, but doesn't the Rest mechanic only set you back 10 levels, with no other penalties? If so, all that means is that if you level up poorly, you just gotta do some grinding (admittedly I have no idea how hard it is in this game; it's very easy in the second one, at least). Another reason to just go to the 3rd game, respeccing is only 5 levels in that. Plus bench characters are actually progressing as your main team does. I'd love to see your planned builds for level ups, it's hard to know in the early levels what order you should be going for in order to get to what you think might be your goal.
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Jul 10, 2012 04:55
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100percentjesusfree posted:Thanks! I had a look at that guide before, but it seemed a tad inconsistent - sometimes it provided exact values for stuff, other times, not so much. In EO3 you don't need a protector either unless you don't have a Monk then you're going to need a Prince and a protector. But I ran Gladiator, Buccaneer, Ninja, Monk, Arbalist and it's totally viable.
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Jul 10, 2012 06:20
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This game.  I was actually planning on LPing this, but looks like you beat me to it and are doing a way better job than I would anyway, so go! LP like the wind!
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Jul 10, 2012 07:25
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Genocyber posted:I've not played this game, but doesn't the Rest mechanic only set you back 10 levels, with no other penalties? If so, all that means is that if you level up poorly, you just gotta do some grinding (admittedly I have no idea how hard it is in this game; it's very easy in the second one, at least). It does, but I believe you have to be something like level 30 to do so, in this game at least, unless I'm getting it mixed up with retiring, which is quite different. The beginning of the game is one of the parts that can be the most frustratingly difficult part for quite a while, so it's certainly possible to make the first stratum much harder than it needs to be, though as you pointed out it's not too hard to just grind more to make up for it, if you have the patience to do so.
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Jul 10, 2012 13:05
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