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Marogareh
Feb 23, 2011
Shogun+Buccaneer, Gladiator+Shogun, Prince(ss)+Ninja for buffing both lines, Ninja+Monk for cheap heals and survivability since they always go first and Arbalist+Buccaneer for that sweet, sweet swashbuckling. There's only 2 optional bosses I haven't killed yet since I want to get to 99 then retire for the 10 points which is gonna take forever unless I grind Pasarans. This game has sucked me in for a long while and it looks like 4 is going to make me buy a 3DS since it looks so drat good.

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100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!
Update 11 - Staring Down the Roar

As the thread voted, Serasmus is replacing Alvis for a bit. On the plus side, this means I have an alchemist who can actually help against the upcoming boss! On the downside, I had to grind him up a bit, and FOEs are actually a threat again. :v:

I'm starting to feel a little overlevelled... does anyone particularly mind? The poison shenanigans were more a result of poison being awesome than overlevelling, but did lead to the party having more exp than you're probably expected to at this point. :v:

Still, aside from getting Serasmus up to speed, I'm not exactly going out of my way to grind, I just like to play carefully. Aaaanyway, on with the update!


"Welp, Alvis has apparently finally decided to get to work on dissecting that mandrake he insisted on lugging back... so let's see if you can live up to your reputation."

"You even have to ask? Tch, fine. I'll demonstrate just how well-deserved my reputation is."

"I can already tell this is going to be fantastic."



"Ah, a Ragelope. A worthy target for my arcane prowess."





:flaccid:

"Snrk."

"...Not a bloody word."

Compare this to Alvis' 255 poison damage a round. Admittedly, it's not really a fair comparison as Fire here is fairly low level, but... yeah. This is why FOEs are a threat again, our main source of damage for them is gone.

Also, one other highlight of grinding, that I wouldn't normally show off 'til the end of the update, was me earning this thing at the shop:




This is absurdly, absurdly good. For a while, Keyser's damge was about on par with Hector's. (Dietrich is hitting notably harder, now.)

~time passes, most of it spent grinding 'til Serasmus was around level 10~

The grinding is really my own fault. You don't generally have to do TOO much, if you're not constantly swapping party members in and out. Still, I'm more interested in keeping this LP interesting with different characters and such than grind-free!


"Eh, you'll do. Let's move on, we've got a new floor to explore."

"...I'll give you, 'you'll do'..."





"Ffff- A kuyutha? I didn't see that coming."

:smug: "Actually, it's one the Kuyutha's much lesser cousin, the Warbull. Didn't you even study before coming down here?"

Basically, it's a lot like what the Fender is to the Ragelope. It has regular attacks, and Rampage, which hits like a truck. Can take Hector/Dietrich to half health, easily. Floor 5 has some unpleasant encounters. It also seems to drop pretty much the same things Kuyutha does.



"New floor, new FOEs. Let's see what this is."



"Oh. Just a wolf. :geno: Whatever, cut through and move on."

Honestly, floor 5 isn't super exciting, for the most part. It does have a few interesting little tidbits, though... and one thing that is very interesting.



You all look quite weary
Rest and recover your TP
then slaughter this wolf.

Also, I wanted to show this off - this is the message that you get when a troubadour uses the 'Relaxing' buff. The whole party passively recovers TP every turn (1% at level 1, building up as you get higher levelled)

This is immensely useful, to say the least. It can make long expeditions much, much more feasible without buying TP recovery items if you're patient. Why?






Because it lets you do this. Get into a fight, kill every enemy except one weak one, with Relaxing up, then spam Defend, healing now and then. You can keep everyone's TP up high quite easily doing this!

Or you could just buy some of the TP-recovery items back in town that I keep forgetting about, which would save a lot of time. Whatever floats your boat. (Seriously, you probably should grab a few in a party with lots of TP users, they're not that expensive when you have a good source of cash)




"Another treasure box! I wonder what kind of herbs this one will have?"

"It's not ALWAYS healing stuff in these..."

"Usually, though!"



"Aw, nuts."

"Oh, yes."



For reference, here's Dietrich's current sword:




And here's the Boar Spear.

"HELL yes!"

"As party leader, I think I sh-"

"As the guy already wielding this thing, I think you should step the gently caress off and wait 'til we find another."

"Ugh, fine."



"Hmmm... looks like there's a lot of plants that are good for chopping around here. Just like that spot waay back on the first floor..."



"And another passage. Too blocked up from this end to get through, though... we'll have to see if we can find the other side, and widen the path a bit."

Quite why they can't widen it from this side is beyond me, but hey, Etrian Odyssey logic, where medics can chop down trees while a guy with an axe can't.





"Hmm... looks like there's a lot of ore around here, too. Seems this place has a lot of resources."

This is generally one of the things that set floors that are a multiple of 5 apart from others - they tend to have one of each resource-gathering point on them. This is really convenient, for reasons we'll see in a little while.



"Sigh no spear for me, it seems."

No, but this stuff CAN be useful. When used in combat, it gives a party member's weapon an elemental property for... a while, I'm not sure how long, as I always forget these exist. This is actually a really good find, as Fenrir is weak to fire!

[spoilers]I still forget to use it, because I'm an idiot.[/spoilers]




"Hmm... west?"



"Or North?"

"I have a weirdly ominous feeling about west."

"She's not the only one."

"So, west it is?"

"No, you neandethral. Let's go North."

"Fear has its use but cowardice has none."

"What? You-"

":ughh: Just shut up, all of you. Let's head North - according to the map, we're near the point where that hidden path was anyway."



"See?"



"Also, we're running out of room in our bag. We probably ought to head back for now, prepare a little more."

So they do! Then I notice something interesting on the way back-



The Stalker hadn't respawned, but the Kuyutha over there has. Some FOEs seem to take longer to respawn than others, which is good - this team probably couldn't take out a Stalker, the damage output just isn't high enough. Then again, with Immunize + Defender, who knows?



"BURN!"

And this is the difference a few levels, and a better move can make. This is Flame at around level 1, I think, hitting for around 5x what Fire at level 1 did. Admittedly, he has gained some levels since then, but the difference is still impressive.

"Anyway. There was a whole area off to the west on the 5th floor we've not explored yet, we can go check that out."



"Oh for gently caress's sake."

:argh:



Another neat little note on mechanics - during battle, you can press Y at any time to see which buffs and debuffs a person has. There are only three 'slots' for each, so say you cast Immunize, Defender, Relaxing then Bravery, Bravery would override Immunize. If you're planning on using a lot of buffs, bear this in mind, or you might accidentally screw yourself over.

"Ah well, Still one more side path to explore."



There's... basically nothing down it. Just a wolf that spawns near the end...



And another that appears up top and chases you down into the path. If you have no warp wire and can't defeat wolves, you might be in trouble here, but if you can't defeat wolves, then mucking about on floor 5 isn't a brilliant idea anyway.

Anyway, for those who are interested in things like damage comparison, we've seen how Serasmus' flame attack does, so let's have a look at the others!



"My new sword spear is fantastic!"



"A long bow and a strong bow,
And let the sky grow dark.
The nock to the cord, the shaft to the ear,
And a foreign king for a mark!"



"Ugh. I really need a better sword."



As an aside, this is something you do NOT want to happen. This is a fairly common group down here, from what I've seen - two Mandrakes and a Warbull. Corrode + Rampage = horrible, horrible, horrible pain.

"Well, only one place left to go, now."





Their reek is ever-present in your nose, while their constant low growl plays on your nerves. You have reached Fenrir's dread lair!



:stare:

"Oh, cock. This probably isn't a good sign."

"You think? Good thing we've got a genius leading us."

I played the game, knew this was coming, and this moment is STILL seriously quite intimidating.

I also make a stupid cock-up! Do not do what I'm about to do.




"Might as well deal with these wolves. Don't want them ganging up on us when we take out Fenrir."



:smug: "I think you'll find these are Skolls."

"I don't care, it's still a bloody wolf."



"...I do NOT like the sound of that."

So yeah, Skolls! Skolls are basically wolves with an assload of health, and an ability ('Evil Howl' I think it's called) that raises their strength. They... don't seem to hit all that hard, though.

They're basically intended to distract you and make you waste resources, really.




"Told you my reputation was well-earned."

"Yeah, yeah."

A good few levels in Flame and it's already hitting pretty drat hard. Do bear in mind these guys are vulnerable to it, it burns more TP than poison, and poison hits once per turn rather than needing constant recastings, so poison is still arguably 'better'...

it just doesn't work well on these things or Fenrir. At all. So the fact that it'd be better if it worked is kinda irrelevant!




"You know something? I don't fancy these odds."

"Eh, we can take 'em."

This is why you don't do that. Fighting Fenrir and four Skolls like this would be stupid. And no, they don't move away by themselves. :v:



"Okay, maybe we can't. We're a bit of a mess."

So close... oh well. Warp-wire out, make the whole trek again. :smithicide:



"Oh for- no! Why are these drat things cropping up again?"

Damnit. Seems their respawn timer, while longer, isn't long enough. We had to slip past it - the trick is that while it tracks you every step for 3 steps, it will then haev a 'turn' of staying still, letting you get a free movement in. Use that to slip by.



"Alright everyone. No more false starts - we're doing this."

As you can see, bosses have a slightly different appearance to regular FOEs. I think it's suitably ominous.

Black IS just for bosses, right? I'm pretty sure that's the case.








"Argh! That surprised me."

Yeah, surprised me, too. drat thing took a step I didn't expect :v:



Anyway, it's time to fight Fenrir... NEXT TIME!

Please don't hate me, wanted to end on a cliffhanger. :v:

As an apology, have The Etrian Odyssey Boss Theme.

I'll be re-linking it next update, too. If you'd rather wait 'til then, go for it~


And here's GeneralYeti, again with a little insight into Fenrir:

GeneralYeti posted:

:eng101: time again!

Fenrir, the boss, is based on Norse myths. He was a giant wolf fathered by Loki that grew too quickly and bit off the hand of one of the gods, Tyr. He fathered Skoll (explaining the mini-FOEs) and would kill Odin during Ragnarok.

It's also the name of Cloud's motorcycle from Advent Children but no one gives a gently caress about that movie.

So this obviously means we won't be fighting a wolf, we'll be fighting something completely different. Thanks Atlus!

Edit: Added additional information about him.

Quite how Fenrir in Etrian Odyssey is supposed to look like a wolf is beyond me - it's clearly based on wolf myths, and everyone talks like he's the king of these wolves, but... yeah. I have no idea what Atlus were going for. :v:


New shop stuff!

Okay, nearly end on a cliffhanger.



This thing requires 10 gum hides, and 1 large fang. It is also absolutely fantastic for troubadours and survivalists! Getting ten gum hides together can be a bit of a pain, but it's so worth it for this thing, if you're using survivalists or troubadours.

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Aug 17, 2012

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


quote:


You can just feel Atlus going "Well? What now, player? :smug:"

Any tactics you use to even the odds are fair game. This is Atlus. If you come in playing fair, they will duct-tape you to a ceiling fan and then throw you into a room with The Matador.

Sacrificial Toast
Nov 5, 2009

Consider this is probably 5 or 6 hours into the game at least, and now we're fighting the first boss. There's quite a bit of build up to these things that makes them feel like real events.

Fenrir is a really good first boss too. He's pretty tough, and tests not only your survivability, but your damage output. That's one thing that's a bit unfortunate for those starting with 3 I think, the first boss in that game is pretty meh, even though the EO3 Boss music is amazing.

goldjas
Feb 22, 2009

I HATE ALL FORMS OF FUN AND ENTERTAINMENT. I HATE BEAUTY. I AM GOLDJAS.
EO 1s first boss was the easiest first boss for me because even though I bought the game on release day and never checked a FAQ this early I realized in an earlier FOE fight that when I used Immunize and Protector suddenly NOTHING WAS HURTING ME so it made him pretty much a joke.

Rose Spirit
Nov 4, 2010

:33 < APEX PURREDATOR
I just started up a new party of a Survivalist, Medic, Poison/Lightning Alchemist (a la Alvis), and two classes we haven't seen yet Ronin and Hexer. Wanted to try out things I couldn't the first time through... Hopefully they won't get massacred by the first fast, hard-hitting boss. At least I still had enough cash to kit them out with early-midgame equipment, not sure I could take another slog through this place as long as the first, as fun as it was.

Rose Spirit fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Aug 14, 2012

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Awww yuss Dyed in Blood. It's not quite Hoist the Sword, but it's still great.

Marogareh posted:

Shogun+Buccaneer, Gladiator+Shogun, Prince(ss)+Ninja for buffing both lines, Ninja+Monk for cheap heals and survivability since they always go first and Arbalist+Buccaneer for that sweet, sweet swashbuckling. There's only 2 optional bosses I haven't killed yet since I want to get to 99 then retire for the 10 points which is gonna take forever unless I grind Pasarans. This game has sucked me in for a long while and it looks like 4 is going to make me buy a 3DS since it looks so drat good.
The S/B should be doing the Swashbuckling; doing it on a A/B is kind of a waste of the Arbalist's considerable damage output, never mind the fact that Swashbuckling is vastly, vastly superior on a Shogun (wherein it can proc seven times on the first hit and then proc again for the second).

How were you sweeping with this party? Without a TP battery I find WM is prohibitively expensive...

Marogareh
Feb 23, 2011
I must be doing something right since I've gotten all 3 endings and the vast majority of the optional stuff with little trouble simply by spamming the attack command with infinite lethal tactic thanks to swashbuckling shogun. The only time I busted out a zodiac was when fighting the dragons to reflect their bullshit move. I guess I got lucky or something since aside from some FOE's and the dragons the game wasn't that hard considering the amount of bullshittery in other Atlus games.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

Serenity Dove posted:

Please keep going with the character class breakdowns 100percent. They're really informative and interesting to read. Are you planning to do one for each class?

I'm currently still just grinding and exploring the fifth floor. If I'd known that poison was so overpowered in the early game then I doubt I would have put this game down the first time. I'm a bit obsessive with charting out each dungeon floor so being able to power through FOES to fill in the map is quite satisfying. I'm running a similar setup to the one in the LP but I have no idea what to do with my Dark Hunter really. I've maxed out Whips and put a few points into Gag and Cuffs but he seems to be the weak link in my team.

I do indeed plan on doing that! I know more about some classes than others (simply because I've not used certain classes all that much) but I'll do my best to give each class a fair showing.

Dark Hunters are generally quite a situational class - they're fantastic for causing bindings and such with their whips, which is great if you're fighting an enemy that has a powerful attack you can stop with a bind, and uh... less great if you're not.

Still, if you build them to have all three of their binding abilities and Ecstasy, they can deal massive damage with that (albeit with some setup time, given that they need to fully bind a target, first.)

Ecstasy's damage starts at 400%, and goes all the way up to 600%, which is pretty nice, to say the least, the only trouble being that it'll take at least 3 rounds to setup. Some conditional drops require you to kill an enemy when it's completely bound enemies, so they can be pretty handy for that.

Similarly, Climax, while a bit gimmicky, is also pretty good for getting a certain conditional drop which requires an instadeath attack. As far as I know, it's basically a guaranteed instant-kill when the target is below a certain percentage of health, as well as giving the Dark Hunter a bit of health back. The percentage starts at 5, and goes all the way up to 25% at level 10. Not the most useful skill for general exploring, but it can make fights a little quicker, and again, it's handy for those situations where you need instadeath for some reason.

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Aug 14, 2012

GeneralYeti
Jul 22, 2012

Look at this smug broken asshole.
:eng101: time again!

Fenrir, the boss, is based on Norse myths. He was a giant wolf fathered by Loki that grew too quickly and bit off the hand of one of the gods, Tyr. He fathered Skoll (explaining the mini-FOEs) and would kill Odin during Ragnarok.

It's also the name of Cloud's motorcycle from Advent Children but no one gives a gently caress about that movie.

So this obviously means we won't be fighting a wolf, we'll be fighting something completely different. Thanks Atlus!

Edit: Added additional information about him.

GeneralYeti fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Aug 14, 2012

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

Knowing that you can imagine my surprise when I finally meet Fenrir and find he's some sort of saber toothed white bengal tiger.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

GeneralYeti posted:

:eng101: time again!

Fenrir, the boss, is based on Norse myths. He was a giant wolf that grew too quickly and bit off the hand of one of the gods, Tyr. He fathered Skoll (explaining the mini-FOEs) and would kill Odin during Ragnarok.

It's also the name of Cloud's motorcycle from Advent Children but no one gives a gently caress about that movie.

Don't forget:
He was fathered (mothered? don't remember) by Loki, his siblings include the likes of Hel, Jormungandr and Sleipnir.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

I know Loki mothered Odin's horse. Not sure about the others.

I thought Hel was the queen of Niflheim. She's Loki's kid too?

It sounds like Loki spent more time having babies with male creatures then the other norse gods spent having any kids at all.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Lotish posted:

I know Loki mothered Odin's horse. Not sure about the others.

I thought Hel was the queen of Niflheim. She's Loki's kid too?

It sounds like Loki spent more time having babies with male creatures then the other norse gods spent having any kids at all.
He isn't an Æsir, he's adopted. He's actually a troll, but because he's blood bros with Óðinn they let him stay in the clubhouse. He can be useful too, but his trueborn sons weren't that noticeable, from what I remember. It's mostly his bastards that come to bad ends.
Hel is his daughter, yeah. They don't talk much.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!
Class Discussion - Troubadours



Sorry Keyser, couldn't find a good image in your likeness. :v:

I had my doubts about troubadours when I first played the game, and again when I picked it up this time - they start off slow (which I think I've said for every class thus far. :v:), but not due to TP-intensive techniques or anything - it's simply that most of their good techniques only come later, and their early abilities are, by an large, a bit shite.

This isn't helped by a mediocre damage output, and less than spectacular health - early on, it's easy to dismiss a troubadour as useless. This is a mistake, however - once they get some levels under their belt, they have a wide variety of useful buffs, and just about all troubadour songs have one thing in common - the buffs don't wear off over time. Just about every other buff and debuff wears off 5 turns after it's cast, a Troubadour can just throw up a buff and never worry about it again.

Their damage output can be rectified, for a while, by farming gum hides on floor 3 (though you'll need a Large Fang from a ragelope, too) to make the Beast Bow, and once they get Relaxing, they become an invaluable part of your team, especially if you like using a lot of techniques, but don't like weighing yourself down with a load of TP restoratives.

By themselves, they'll never really be the hardest hitters, despite the vast array of weapons they can equip - swords, staves, daggers and bows, especially because you'll probably want them on the back row. I tend to find it's best to just give them bows, so their damage ignores the penalty for being in the back row, though it really depends on whatever the best weapon you have access to is.

You don't want these guys on the front row, though. Their HP and defense aren't great, and they generally wear light armour. They have a few unique accessories, each some kind of musical instrument, which provide TP boosts... but I rarely find myself worrying about Keyser's TP, seeing as he only needs to throw one or two buffs per fight, if that, and one of them is a TP regenerator anyway, so...

Long story short, I'd probably leave off taking a troubadour until you can get them a bunch of levels quickly, and also have access to a decent bow. They ARE very good once they get going, though, and quite versatile.

Also, one amusing bit of trivia - for some reason, their Japanese name is a bit of an error. They are known, in Japan, as 'birds', rather than 'bards'. Thanks to Epee Em's LP of Hatoful Boyfriend, I will always imagine Keyser as some kind of pigeon now.

They have two stat-raising skills:

HP-Up

TP-Up

These do precisely what they do for every other character who has them - a point in HP-Up certainly wouldn't go amiss, if you have one to spare, as Troubadours are squishy as gently caress, so 10% extra health would help take the edge off that, and my personal favourite of their skills requires a lot of points in TP-Up, so pumping that up pretty high is a priority.

Songs

Augh. This skill is necessary, but I don't like it. Unlike the medic's healer, the alchemist's 'element UP', which act as prerequisites while boosting skills, this just acts as a prerequisite for various skills, while doing absolutely nothing by itself. Much as I'd love to say not to put any points into it... don't do that, because then your troubadour would have no skills.

It's basically a point sink, and one that you need to pump up early. Ugh. S'also one of the reasons why troubadours kind of suck earlier on, they kind of have to put a load of points into a skill that does just about nothing.

Divinity

Requires songs 10, and recovery 5, this increases experience point gains across the whole party, starting at 10%, growing at 1% per level then jumping to 19% at level 5, and 30% at level 10.

I'm... actually not very fond of this skill. The requirements for it are pretty harsh, and while it reduces the time spent grinding, skill points are a limited resource in this game. You'll never get enough skill points to max out everything, so dumping quite a lot into this makes your bard permanently less versatile in combat.

It's kinda like the Swift Learner perks in Fallout - sure, it makes you get new levels faster, but it makes you a little less effective. On the other hand, if you run out of things you want to spend points on for your troubadour, get it! Reducing grinding never hurts. It's a passive skill, too, so you don't have to worry about casting it, at least.

Bravery

Requires Songs 1, and is generally the first buff I take, just to give my troubadour something to do in the early game, other than plink at things and wish he had a better bow. It's a pretty simple attack boost, that gives a 10% boost at level 1, increases by 5% per level up to level 5... then increases at 1% per level up 'til level 10 where it suddenly jumps up to 40%.

No idea why they did it that way, but on the basis of rather lovely gains later on, I'd advise just putting 5 points into it at most, unless you have points to spare. TP cost starts at 3, and increases by 1 at levels 3 and 5.

Shelter

Exactly the same as Bravery, except raises defense rather than attack. Cost and percentage gains are the same. I'd advise taking this if you're not using a protector - this raises defense by up to 40%, which is quite impressive, but a Protector's Defender ability works more like immunize (except specific to physical attacks, I think) reducing damage by a percentage.

Mercury

Same as above, except buffs the party's speed, meaning they're more likely to go before their enemies in battle. Not really my favourite buff - remember, each character has only 3 buff slots. I tend to find two of those are nearly permanently occupied with Immunize and Defender if I'm in a tough fight, so there's some pretty stiff competition for that last slot. :v:

Erasure

Requires Songs 3, and erases buffs from enemies. Its TP costs grow at the same rate as the above skills. It can erase 2 buffs at level 3, and 3 at level 5... additional levels seem not to do anything. This is an Atlus game, so having a character able to get rid of enemy buffs is never a bad idea. :v:

Recovery

Requires songs 3, and causes your party's status ailments to heal faster. You heal 10% faster at level 1, and the rate jumps to 100% faster at level 5, and 220% faster at level 10, which can result in you recovering from status ailments in a single turn pretty often.

If you're having trouble with enemies using a lot of status effects, this might not be a bad idea. I'm pretty sure it doesn't help with fatal status effects like petrification, though, unfortunately.

Stamina

Increases party max HP while active. Requires songs and HP up both at level 3, and is kind of a waste of time in my opinion. :v: There are generally better ways of making sure your party can take hits. If you have no protector, probably not a terrible buff, though.

Gives a 20% buff at level 1, and raises by 3% per level, jumping to 35% at level 5 and 50% at level 10. It's not an insignificant amount of HP, so again, I can see why it would be useful, I just prefer to go with 'take less damage' over 'be able to take more'.

Blaze

Freeze

Shock

All these are basically the same - they require Songs 5 and Bravery 3, and make one party member's weapon deal Fire/Ice/Lightning damage depending on which one you use. They don't make it cause any additional damage - they just make sure that they can hurt physically resistant enemies.

There is a boss who is physically resistant, these can be really bloody handy against it. They essentially act like a weapon oil, and start off costing 15 TP, slowly decreasing down to costing 5TP with every skill point spent. I certainly wouldn't max them out, but taking at least one isn't a bad idea.

Ifrit

Ymir

Taranis

These all require songs at 7, and simultaneously buff your party's resistance to 1 element (Fire, Ice, Lightning in that order) while lowering the enemy's resistance to the same.

They raise your resistance by 20%, and lower the enemy's by 10% at level 1, and increase at 5% per level, with a cost that starts at 6 and raises by 1 at levels 3 and 5.

Now, these always struck me as a little dumb. Generally, if an enemy is using fire attacks, you're not going to want to hit it back with fire attacks, even if you lowered its resistance to them, so half the effect is generally a waste.

Plus, Immunize gives you simultaneous resistance to ALL elements, and protectors have a better way of dealing with damage from a single element. If you have an alchemist who heavily specialises in one kind of element, though, making enemies weak to that to hurt them more wouldn't hurt.

Honestly, troubadours can fit into most parties, but what build you go with really, really depends on the other members.

Healing

Requires Songs at level 7, and HP up at level 5.

Gives the party a constant 'regen' effect, recovering 2% of their HP per turn at level 1, raising by 1% per level jumping to 7% at level 5, and 13% at level 10. Not my favourite skill in the world, but it can be combined with Immunize and Defender to hilarious effect, making a party that barely takes any damage, and heals pretty much any amount they take at the end of a turn.

Not really a bad skill, and it DOES give more healing options than 'have a medic slinging Salve all the time', so that's a point in its favour. Costs 4 TP at level 1, and raises by 1 at level 3 and 5.

Relaxing

:syoon:

God, I love this skill. Requires Songs up at level 7, and TP up at level 5. Costs 4 TP at level 1, and raises by 1 at level 3 and 5. This skill is the main reason I like troubadours - it provides passive TP regeneration.

Fairly slow TP regeneration, yes - 1% at level 1, raising by 1% every odd level, other than 9, maxing out at 5% at level 10, but still. If you have a party that uses a lot of TP, take this! You can make expeditions last vastly longer if you're prepared to beat a group of enemies down so only one remains, then throw this buff on the party and defend 'til your TP recovers.

Not the most exciting strategy, sure, and yes, you can just buy a bunch of TP healing items, but they're fairly expensive, and use up a character's turn in battle. This, you just cast it and don't worry about it for the rest of the battle, knowing your mages will be recovering TP... honestly, I keep saying it, but I really like this skill. 9/10 times, my buff setup in a tough fight is Defender, Immunize and Relaxing.

In some of the later strata, where you can find healing springs and such, TP recovery is still less of an issue, but it's still useful to have a portable method of restoring it around!

Stalker

Requires TP up at level 5, and uh... reduces the encounter rate. I sure do love getting less experience! Useful if you plan on sticking a troubadour in a party of farmers, to help them get to resource gathering points without being eaten, I suppose. Also if you get sick of the game's high encounter rate. :v:

Cost starts at 2, raising by 1 at levels 3 and 5. Lasts 30 steps at level 1, and reduces the encounter rate by 30%. The encounter reduction stays the same, while the number of steps increases by 5 per level, up 'til level 5 where it jumps to 60. After that, additional levels also decrease the encounter rate further, while still giving 5 extra steps per level. At level 6, encounter rate is reduced by 35%, 40% at level 8, and 50% at level 10.

Return

Requires 3 levels in Stalker, and... warps you back to the previous floor. Hooray? You can't even use it in quick succession. It's useful I suppose, if you have someone like Tlachtga throwing out free heals on a previous floor, and need to get back to her quickly, but most of the time, you can just warp-wire out of the labyrinth, albeit with a hefty trek to get back.

Seems like a waste of points to me. Additional levels just reduce the cost, too, from 10, gradually down to 1.

Take

Lets you gather from Take points! I still prefer to just make a team of dedicated farmers than use up valuable skill points on these.

E. Removed a typo. :v:

More interesting tidbits on the where the names of various skills came from!

GeneralYeti posted:

Wow, lots of :eng101: today.

First off, Mercury, the song that ups the party's speed, is named that because of the traditional association with the messenger of the Roman gods. He wore winged sandals and flew swiftly from place to place.

Now, Ifrit, Ymir, and Taranis. Ifrit is an Arabic djinn of fire, most often depicted as huge, winged, and ruthless. Ifrit is also well known for the cameos in Final Fantasy as one of the early summons.

Ymir, from Norse mythology, is a primeval being made of poison and is the ancestor of all jotunn, or frost giants. Odin, Vili, and Ve created basically everything from his body.

Taranis was a god of thunder worshiped in Gaul and the British Isles. He was associated with the wheel, as was the cyclops Brontes in Greek mythology. Carvings were made of his likeness; he was a bearded god, and in fact was syncretised with Jupiter/Zeus.

I think that's everything.

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 11:35 on May 20, 2013

Rose Spirit
Nov 4, 2010

:33 < APEX PURREDATOR
A song for Keyser to sing while casting Erasure!

GeneralYeti
Jul 22, 2012

Look at this smug broken asshole.
Wow, lots of :eng101: today.

First off, Mercury, the song that ups the party's speed, is named that because of the traditional association with the messenger of the Roman gods. He wore winged sandals and flew swiftly from place to place.

Now, Ifrit, Ymir, and Taranis. Ifrit is an Arabic djinn of fire, most often depicted as huge, winged, and ruthless. Ifrit is also well known for the cameos in Final Fantasy as one of the early summons.

Ymir, from Norse mythology, is a primeval being made of poison and is the ancestor of all jotunn, or frost giants. Odin, Vili, and Ve created basically everything from his body.

Taranis was a god of thunder worshiped in Gaul and the British Isles. He was associated with the wheel, as was the cyclops Brontes in Greek mythology. Carvings were made of his likeness; he was a bearded god, and in fact was syncretised with Jupiter/Zeus.

I think that's everything.

Sacrificial Toast
Nov 5, 2009

100percentjesusfree posted:

9/10 times, my buff setup in a tough fight is Defender, Immunize and Relaxing.
Well I hope you're not gonna just abuse Defender/Immunize for the entire game, because as broken as it is, it's really not very exciting.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

Sacrificial Toast posted:

Well I hope you're not gonna just abuse Defender/Immunize for the entire game, because as broken as it is, it's really not very exciting.

Fair point, I was worried about that myself. :v:

I will be showing off how absurd it is, but yeah, I'll try using different strategies on bosses, too, unless I get particularly stuck. Laughing in the faces of bosses is amusing to me, but I can understand why people probably wouldn't want to see a whole game of it.

Also GeneralYeti, do you mind if I start quoting your :eng101: in the posts they're relevant to?

GeneralYeti
Jul 22, 2012

Look at this smug broken asshole.

100percentjesusfree posted:

Also GeneralYeti, do you mind if I start quoting your :eng101: in the posts they're relevant to?

No problem. That's what they were there for.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!
Update 12 - Immunize is a hell of a thing

It's a short update today, everyone - I'm giving the boss his own little update. Anyway, where did we leave off last time?



Oh, right.

Dyed in Blood - Etrian Odyssey 1 Boss Theme

As you might've noticed, I kinda forgot to heal before this fight started. :v:



Still, there's one set of moves I plan to use first, and abuse Boost with. I won't be doing this too much in future, because it probably won't be too interesting for you guys to watch.



I thought this move could still hit multiple times if only one target was present, but apparently I remembered wrong.



Defender and Immunize do very similar things, providing the party with a certain percentage of damage reduction - Immunize is to everything, I THINK defender only works on physical attacks though? Not quite sure.

In any case, they're both Boosted, as you can see by the little B in their status icon, meaning any skill they use is effectively 5 levels higher. This puts Immunize at being effectively level 13, and Defender... I'm not sure, something pretty high. 9-10 maybe?


"Jill, I could REALLY use a heal, first..."

"With this, you won't even need one, trust me!"

"Pff. I'll throw you some of the medica we've got lying around."

Serasmus didn't quite have his boost ready yet... also, there's actually a disadvantage to boosting Immunize, Defender, etc. Most non-troubadour buffs wear off in 5 turns - normally, you want to recast a buff you want to keep up on turn 4, so there's no time when the buff is down.

If you Boosted, however, this won't work. The lower-level skill won't overwrite the higher level one, so you just have to take a turn without your buffs up. I didn't realise this until later. :v:




"Yeah, if you could just get on that anytime soon, it'd be great."

Here's what things look like with my favourite 3 buffs up - I'll have to get used to not seeing those, as I don't want things to get too boring. :v:

Also, as you can see, Fenrir hits HARD. He got that attack in before I had immunize and defender up, as he's pretty quick, but still, almost all of the protector's health gone in one shot is generally not a good sign.

As far as first bosses go, I think he's actually a pretty decent challenge. Not the hardest, but he tests both how well your party can take damage, with his rather ferocious damage output, and how well you can deal it. If you look at the map, you'll probably notice how all the remaining Skolls have gone hostile.

You can imagine how things go if they all reach Fenrir, so you have to put him down fast. Also, most guides recommend you be about level 17 for this fight - most of the party was at that level, but Serasmus, our biggest hitter was level, uh... 12. This made things a little tense.




"Bah, we'll have this thing down in no time!"

Even without multiple hits, Allslash still hits fairly hard on a single target. Still, Fenrir has 1200 health to chew through, so we're going to need to hope someone hits a little h-



"If we leave it to me? Yes. We will."

Remember, Serasmus is only level 12. This is his non-boosted, highest-damaging fire spell - admittedly, Fenrir's weak to it, but it's still very nice damage.



"Pfft. Try harder, puppy, I barely felt that!"

And this is why Immunize + Defender is broken as gently caress. Nearly 80 damage reduced to 8, on a character with even lower armour. This is also why I'll be trying not to abuse them too much - it just completely trivialises most fights.

The funny thing is, this was an example of his Coldfang ability, rather than a regular attack, a move that hits much harder than usual and is known for one-shotting people. :v:

He has one other ability, too, but we'll see it later. It's something Immunize and Defender can't help us with :(




"Ugh. Not the best attack I've ever made."

Fenrir's defense is pretty high, but I did this for reference - Allslash seems to near enough double Dietrich's attack damage at this point. The only trouble with Allslash is it eats through TP pretty fast, and Landsknechts do not tend to have much to spare.



"Anyone want a hot dog?"

:stare:

"...No sense of humour."



:stare:

Immunize plus defender, again. Yeesh, I feel bad for the poor thing. :(

Anyway, a couple of fairly uneventful turns pass, before...




Oh, cock. Roar attempts to hit the whole party with the Fear status effect, which is quite annoying. Also, it probably goes without saying but I was REALLY tense at this point. That map!



I'm finding myself filled up with fear
and holding my life very dear
guys, it's been fun
but now I'm going to run
adventuring's just not my career.

"Good luck making it back by yourself, then, coward."

:ohdear:

"Oh, not running after all? Then make yourself useful and fight."



:argh: This is precisely what I was hoping to avoid.



:argh: :argh: We were so close, too!



:ughh: If I'd used that, the fight would probably be over, too.



"Hah! With the big one down, the rest are running with their tails between their legs! You alright, Hector? Looking a bit pale."

"I'm... fine. Let's just get this over with, and get back home."



Damnit, Keyser. This is what the Fear status effect does - party members will randomly fail to act in battle.



But the fight's over soon enough! Fenrir has two different item drops, the Huge Fang being the more common of the two.

In this series, once a boss is defeated, it's generally not gone for good. I believe Fenrir respawns every 14 days or so.

The rewards for beating them are generally nice, too. Even if it is the more common drop, the Large Fang sells for a nice amount of cash, and the experience is impressive.




"Now, where did I put that Warp Wire..."

"Doesn't matter. I've got a good feeling - press on!"

"We're tired out after that, we should go b-"

"Press. On."



Welcome to Stratum 2 - Primitive Jungle



"Ooh, what's that?"

"Let's go take a look."



As you gaze upon the enigmatic scene, you hear someone descend the stairs behind you.



"If you two are here to get in the way again, I swear-"

"Well done, Runaway explorers. Rid of the wolves, the Emerald Grove again knows peace."

Grim satisfaction is evident on the warrior woman Ren's face as she gazes into your eyes.

"In overcoming hardships, and growing stronger, you honor the Explorers Guild. After defeating Fenrir, you will be known as high-ranking adventurers of Etria."

"Oh. About drat time someone acknowledged us."

"We salute your hard work. May your continued exploration go as well as it has thus far."

The pleasantries thus dispensed with, Ren points to the unearthly light behind you.

"See that light? We call it the Geomagnetic Field, and use it to investigate the Labyrinth. Truthfully, no one knows what created it, or for what purpose, but its power is formidable.

Touch it, and you will find yourself elsewhere. The Radha's chieftain pioneered its use. Though you must be eager to explore a new Stratum, I advise you to return to town first."

Ren and her flame-haired partner brush past you and approach the pillar of light. In the blink of an eye , the two of them disappear from where they previously stood. Is this the power of the Geomagnetic Field? Ren's words stay with you as you continue...



"Fine, fine. We can head back."



These things are a godsend. They appear at the start of every stratum, and allow you to save, warp back home... and more importantly, return straight to here from town, meaning you don't have to push through the whole first 5 floors every drat time.

Combined with floor 5 having 1 of every material-gathering point, if you can get a party that can survive floor 5 together, farming materials becomes a lot more feasible.




"Here's to hoping you'll be able to make me some new kind of sword with this thing."



:downsgun:



"Sod it, I'm calling it a night. The Radha can wait 'til the morning."

New Shop Stuff



The Celtis! Nearly twice as strong as the axe below it, and requires one of Fenrir's Large Fangs to make. I'm not a fan of axes, but if you are, this is quite a boon.

E. Nearly forgot to ask this - if the fight with Fenrir wasn't sufficiently interesting, would people like me to have the party sleep for a couple of weeks, then go fight him again, without me using Defender + Immunize to break the fight? I'm not sure how well the endeavour will go, but I can try, if people would prefer that. I'm equally happy to just get on with the game, though. :v:

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Aug 16, 2012

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Don't burn yourself out doing dumb things, the game's going to throw plenty at you yet :getin:

I beat EO3 again a couple days ago and I'm struck by how much they've refined the series from game to game. EO4 can't come soon enough.

HelloWinter
May 27, 2012

"Hey, Nagito, what'cha
thinkin' about?"

"Oh, y'know. Murder stuff."
A jungle!? :stare: I wasn't expecting that kind of sudden environment changes!

Great job with defeating the boss! I'd echo theshim by saying that you shouldn't literally stall on your tactics just for our sakes. This game seems to be unforgiving. :ohdear: But then again, you seem like you really know what you're doing from all of your updates so far, so... who am I to judge on what you can or can't do?

HelloWinter fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Aug 17, 2012

Yapping Eevee
Nov 12, 2011

STAND TOGETHER.
FIGHT WITH HONOR.
RESTORE BALANCE.

Eevees play for free.
Go all out crushing your enemies, bud. That's the only way to play. :black101:

Seriously, I will take a complete curb-stomp over an even fight any day... and if RPG LPs have taught me anything, it's that there will often be one or two minor slip-ups to make it 'tense' for the other readers anyway. ;)

Sacrificial Toast
Nov 5, 2009

Yeah, given you almost killed him before the Skolls even reached you, I don't think doing it without Immunize would make a huge difference. Just keep trucking.

It is worth noting though, that given the size of their sprites, only 2 of the Skolls can actually join in at any given time with Fenrir. Since the ones not in the fight despawn when Fenrir dies, actually focusing on killing the things once they've reached you is an even worse idea than you might think otherwise.

Sacrificial Toast fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Aug 17, 2012

Staticpulse
Nov 1, 2010

Herein I have explained the operation of the sun.
I think a token attempt or two to take out the boss without the Immunize/Defender combo (or a lesser focus on it) would be fine.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

GeneralYeti posted:

Ýmir, from Norse mythology, is a primeval being made of poison and is the ancestor of all jotunn, or frost giants. Óðinn, Vili, and Vé created basically everything from his body.
Yes, Ýmir features strongly in the creation myth of the old faith. Dude lapped the milk of the cow Auðumbla and poo poo. It's pretty funny really, recommend people look it up on wikipedia myself.

Turncoat Mommy
Oct 3, 2010

I believe in you.
Trivialize the fights however you want, we're all only reading this for Keyser's banter.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!
Bwahaha, I went and rested for 14 days so I could take another stab at Fenrir (what can I say, I got curious about how it'd go. Sorry to everyone who said not to!) and everything went better than I'd expected.

Much better. Something wonderful happened after the fight~

I'll probably not be doing the usual characterisation for the fight, but I'll get to work on a little bonus update. :v:

100percentjesusfree fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Aug 17, 2012

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!
Bonus Update - Thank You, Sacrificial Toast

Sorry to double post, but here's that bonus update I mentioned a few moments ago!

If this winds up archived, or people are just reading my posts for some reason, the title won't make sense.

Basically, Sacrificial Toast pointed out that I shouldn't just cheese my way through the game with immunize + defender breaking everything, so I decided to go back and give Fenrir a fair fight.

The results were interesting, I think!




So yeah, here we go again. No Boost at all (because we came up from floor 6, rather than down from floor 1, so no time to build it up), and I'm not going to use Immunize or Defender.









I remembered to use the blaze oil this time, at least. We're going to need all the damage output we can get.





:geno: Not quite the boost I was hoping for. Do elemental oils even affect techs like this? I'm not sure.



JESUS. This is the difference Immunize + Defender makes. With them? 8 Damage. Without? A hundred. Jill heals for, at most, around 40. Hoo boy.



And here is me getting absurdly lucky. Honestly, this fight went way better than it should've - I got a pre-emptive strike, for some reason, AND he whiffed an attack. I'm certainly not complaining.



The results of Serasmus going all out for four rounds. :ohdear: Flame hits really drat hard, but... well, even with Relaxing helping his TP recover, he's still losing a lot.



Aw, crap. I was not feeling good about the fight at this point. Look at how surrounded we are on the map, too. :ohdear:

This becomes much less scary when you realise that...


Sacrificial Toast posted:


It is worth noting though, that given the size of their sprites, only 2 of the Skolls can actually join in at any given time with Fenrir. Since the ones not in the fight despawn when Fenrir dies, actually focusing on killing the things once they've reached you is an even worse idea than you might think otherwise.


So, yeah. We're completely surrounded, but as long as we focus on Fenrir, we'll never have to worry about engaging more than one Skoll. I... had no idea about this. The idea of being bumrushed by Skolls always made me determined to kill Fenrir as quickly as I could.

Still, you generally don't want anything distracting you from the giant wolf tiger-thing, so focusing on bringing him down fast is still a very good idea.




Even without boost, immunize and such, the Fenrir dies like a chump. Even if he did take out Dietrich. His damage output is seriously nuts... not to mention he basically ignored Hector provoking him, the rear end. :argh:



The reward is as good as last time, exp-wise (Slightly better, seeing as it's split 4 ways rather than 5), but the drop... that's what surprised me.

See, the way drops work in this game is that the enemy has a list of up to 3 items, but only ever drops one at a time. The game checks against the 3rd list item first, which is often a conditional drop - if you've not met the condition, you automatically don't get it. If you don't get it, it checks against the second item, if there is one. Don't get that, it finally checks against the first.

Fenrir has two items, White Hide and Huge Fang. White Hide is the second item in the list, with a 35% chance of dropping. If you don't get that, you are guaranteed to get his Huge Fang, which has a 100% drop rate.

I'm thoroughly amused because I was not expecting to get so lucky when I was just showing off how the party would do without being cheap. It sells for 30 more en than the huge fang, but becomes a much more useful item, so it's time for...


New Shop Stuff!



This thing is great. The same Defense boost as Plate armour (slightly less in effect, because it gives 1 less Vit which is basically defense), no agility penalty, and resistance to ice. And it's for your squishy classes! Everyone gets one! (even Jill. Much as I like her being fast, I also like her able to take hits worth a drat.)

Hell, if I could, I'd throw this on Hector and Dietrich, too. Sadly, they refuse to wear things that aren't actual armour, apparently :argh:

So yeah, seriously, thank you for calling me out on using cheap tactics. :v: The squishy squad are now considerably less squishy.










tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



So what's the conditional for Fenrir, and what item does it give you?

Sacrificial Toast
Nov 5, 2009

You're welcome. :c00lbert:

A few mechanical things--I believe tech elements are set and unaffected by weapon element, so Allslash is always going to be 100% slashing damage, but don't quote me on that.

As far as getting the first strike though, that's because you came in from floor 6. If you approach a boss or FOE from behind, you always get initiative. The same is probably true for you, but why would you ever do that?

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!

Tithin Melias posted:

So what's the conditional for Fenrir, and what item does it give you?

Err, sorry if I was being misleading. :v:

Fenrir doesn't have a conditional, he just has two regular drops, his Huge Fang and his White Hide - the only condition for getting the White Hide is being lucky, as it has a much lower chance of dropping.

Also, that'd explain why his damage wasn't much higher :argh: I totally wasted that oil! (I was probably never going to use it anyway, but it's the principle of the thing!)

goldjas
Feb 22, 2009

I HATE ALL FORMS OF FUN AND ENTERTAINMENT. I HATE BEAUTY. I AM GOLDJAS.

Tithin Melias posted:

So what's the conditional for Fenrir, and what item does it give you?

i forget what Fenrir's is exactly, but boss conditional drops generally unlock a literal ULTIMATE WEAPON (say, the best sword, or axe, or whip, or bow etc.), and it will cost a few hundred thousand bucks to buy, so unless he feels like farming a ton of gold he really won't be able to buy it. Though if he does get the conditional drop, does farm the gold, and has someone who can use the weapon, it'd probably make the next stratum a joke.

Edit for above: Wow really, Fenrir doesn't drop an ultimate weapon unlock? Im pretty sure the first boss in 2 and 3 did.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

goldjas posted:

Edit for above: Wow really, Fenrir doesn't drop an ultimate weapon unlock? Im pretty sure the first boss in 2 and 3 did.
They do, and they break the game pretty hard. 2's gives the penultimate bow, and is really easy to farm, while 3's gives the penultimate club. Thing is, 3's is really hard to get easily - in 2, the condition is "kill while poisoned" and the shop sells poison gas, while in 3, it's "kill with a 1-man party". Also 2's sells for around 30k, while 3's sells for 10k flat, and while 3 has both Formaldehyde, which guarantees all drops if the enemy is killed on the same turn, and a limited number of Coupons which halve the price of a single purchase, it's still pretty drat hard to rack up 130k that early in the game.

E: vvvvvvv whoops.

theshim fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Aug 17, 2012

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!

goldjas posted:

Edit for above: Wow really, Fenrir doesn't drop an ultimate weapon unlock? Im pretty sure the first boss in 2 and 3 did.

I don't remember 3's offhand, but the first boss in 2 doesn't give you an ultimate either. It gives you an endgame weapon, yeah, but I'm pretty sure it gets outclassed eventually.

E; yeah, just checked to make sure and whilst it does give you an insanely good bow that could easily carry you through most of the game you can realistically get two better ones later.

Lotus Aura fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Aug 17, 2012

Shabadu
Jul 18, 2003

rain dance


The same thing applies for EO3. The first boss's conditional is one that can be completed fairly early, level 30 or so, with a correctly built character. It gets you the second best club in the game. The best comes from a conditional drop from a post game boss. Conditional drops, especially from bosses, almost always unlock superior gear to what you can get from grinding normal drops.

Krumbsthumbs
Oct 23, 2010

2nd Place.
1st Loser.
Being one of those people who have only played EO3, looking back at the mechanics and skills in EO1 is very interesting. You can see where certain skills were boosted, weakened or removed and how it changes group types.

Also, having a poison spell on my spell caster early on would've been really nice.

100percentjesusfree
Mar 18, 2009

FOE! FOE!
100% FOE!
Update 13 - A little more faffery

While it's tempting to just shoot straight for the new stratum to explore it, there're actually still a few more things to accomplish up in the first stratum.

Not too much super exciting stuff, but there is one thing that's easily missed, but definitely worth going back for.

Also, I want to correct something I said in an earlier update - I think I claimed that winning a random encounter within the first round means that FOEs won't take a step. That's... actually not true, and I'm not sure why I thought it was. So sorry about that. :v:


"So, you're seriously saying that you've either gone forwards, or backwards in time, you don't even know, from a country no-one's ever heard of?"

"Yup, pretty much."

"...And I thought you were normal. So, what, you looking for a way home?"

"Eh. I'd be doing about the same thing back home, 'cept with probably more risk and worse pay, there're worse places to be."

"That's... good, I guess. I still need a drink."

"Figured you might. S'why I wanted to talk to you at the bar - plus we can take a look, see if any new work's available since we were last here."



"Still gotta pick up some Pyroxene..."



"Get revenge for a guild who can't take care of their own problems,"



"Get bug eyes for a fashion designer..."

"Wait, what? I've had a bit to drink, but not THAT much."

"No, seriously. Look."

"...What."





"Also get some star shaped seeds, and take up botany."

"I'm... going to go get some pyroxene. Somehow. Could do with a bit of time to think."

Pyroxene is gotten by mining at one of the various mining points in the first stratum. One of the quickest ways of getting it is by taking a bunch of your farmer survivalists, if you're using some, to the 6th floor via the geomagnetic field, then going to the mining point on floor 5.



Note that I said 'easiest', not 'safest'. Enemies seem to just love smacking your farmbots around, and enemies on floor 5 WILL kill them. Note how we can still mine etc. just fine with them dead, though!



"Finally. These things are pretty efficient... where did you get them, again?"

"What, the farmbots? They just come with having a guild, they give you a couple of material gatherers."

Sadly, it's not 'til EO3 that robots become a thing you can recruit.

Anyway, at the mining points in stratum 1, you can gather Metal Horns, Pyroxene and Whitestone.

"Alright, got it. Let's go sell it, then turn in the quest."



"...It wasn't Shileka who wanted it?" :ughh:

"Having fun?"

"No."



"Welcome back, Kids. Found a Pyroxene, huh? Keep up the good work."

A lot of these quest completion dialogues are less than riveting.

One thing I never really noticed 'til I played EO3, but now am perpetually annoyed by - quests in EO1 are, honestly, a bit crap most of the time. Their rewards are often a bit lackluster (like this, that gives all of 300 en. Not terrible, as money's always good, but still.

In EO3, even when the actual rewards were a bit crap, which was sometimes the case, each quest gave a significant amount of exp. In this, they give none. Not sure whether they give experience in EO2? Anyone who wants to chime in and let me know, please feel free to.


"The farmbot team picked up a new type of gathering skill, too! Maybe we should help them train up a little, so they can learn more. Also, hopefully not die to a stiff breeze."



"This wasn't quite what I had in mind."



"WHERE THE HELL IS GERMANY, ANYWAY?"

"What."



This is the problem of taking on a ragelope with no major damage dealers - even with good old defender + immunize (I know I said I wouldn't abuse it too much, but I don't think it counts when grinding, right? Seeing as most of that's offscreen anyway...), it can take forever to actually kill anything like this.



No way in hell was I taking on Stalkers with this party, though. On this floor, they're actually really easy to avoid - the one in the top right, all you have to do is go straight down from the entrance, and it won't quite catch you due to how it stops once every three turns. The one to the left of that only seems to come after you when you're in the top row that it's in, so you just lure it out then slip past it.

Anyway, first stratum Take points give you Tiny Petals, Amber Lumps and Crabapples. Amber Lumps are used in some very useful medicinal stuff, so it's worth grabbing a few. Unfortunately, take points are kinda the hardest to farm - despite what I said last time, turns out that floor 5 DOESN'T have one of each type of gathering point, as there's no Take points, I got confused and thought one of the chop points was a Take point, apparently. :v:

In EO3, at least, it seems to do it the way I described. Anyway, I'll probably be farming this a bit later, because they're used in some fairly important stuff. Crabapples are used in a fairly decent healing item, too. (You'll need 5 of them and a Mint leaf, once you've sold five, don't worry about crabapples anymore.)


"Right, enough of this. Let's take on that ridiculous 'get bug eyes for a fashion designer' job, then check out something I'm curious about."

"Bug eyes for a fashion designer?"

"Hey, don't ask me."



"This one comes from Mrs. Meryl, Etria's finest designer. Every Etrian girl's dream is to step out wearing the accessories she creates."

"Not if they have eyes on them! Seriously, what?"

"Her newest design, though... well, she says she needs five Insect Eyes from butterflies. I'm a fan of her accessories myself, but... I might not stand in line for this one. Well then, off you go."

It's probably worth noting that you can only have a certain number of quests accepted at once - I believe it's 5. To cancel a quest you have going, just go to the 'report on a quest' thing, and report an unfinished one to cancel it. You can pick it up again later.



"We'll take on that quest for cleaning up some other guild's mess, too. Why not?"

"Decided to take the request, have you? It's from an explorer who's a regular here. He was ambushed in the forest with his friends, by an unknown monster on the 5th floor. It was too much for them to handle, so they panicked and ran away. They said it was a terrible poisonous spider that's usually seen deeper in the Labyrinth..."

"Didn't you just say it was an unknown monster? That sounds pretty... not-unknown."

"Shush. You've been around the 5th floor a few times by now, right? The target is a monster that appears on the 5th floor where there'd normally be nothing. Get rid of it before more kids like them run afoul of it, okay? I'll be praying for you."

"Before we do that, though, there was something on the first floor I want to check out again..."



The path seems to have widened. It may be passable if you attempt to push through.



"drat right, let's see what's on the other side."

This path only opens after Fenrir's defeat. Bear in mind that you CANNOT leave the way you came, and some stuff on the other side is actually dangerous. Don't go in without a warp wire.



"Well, these are new."

See if you can spot what's wrong with this party lineup!

Also, Alvis is back in the game. If you feel particularly strongly about me using someone else, feel free to say so, I'm not averse to swapping around, just Alvis should be coming in very handy again fairly soon.




Venomgels are assholes. They can attempt to poison your whole party at once, and don't take all that much damage from physical attacks.



Their poison hits really bloody hard, too.

"Ah! So that's how it feels having poison for blood - absolutely bloody awful."

"You should leave the puns down to me
For I'm the literary master, you see
But now I'm feeling like shite
I'm far from alright
It's good that poison curing is free."



If your answer to my earlier question was that Jill and Dietrich were in the wrong rows, congratulations! That was really not my finest hour.



"Oh dear."

"Hm, hidden away area full of tough enemies... let's see what the FOEs here are like!"



"Oh."



"Ooh, more healing stuff!"

"Yeah. Great."



Oh god. Sloths are not a good thing to run into at this point, and Waspiors have a regular attack with a chance of poisoning. This is not a good encounter for us to run into.



"Bwahaha, poison saves the day again! I love this stuff when it's not being used on me."

This is a sloth's normal attack. It hurts like hell, but isn't the worst thing they can do.



Groups like this do give out fairly nice exp, though.

"Ugh. This place is exhausting - let's get some rest before we come back. Maybe get that stupid eye quest sorted out."



So, insect eyes. They're not super hard to harvest, you just have to kill Woodflies or Venomflies with (non-poison) magic. It's not guaranteed to drop even then, unfortunately, so getting 5 can be a bit of a grind. I found that the area I'm in on the map right now was the best place to farm them, as you quite often run into groups like this, with 3 woodflies and nothing else.



The game's even nice enough to tell us when we have enough.

"There, we've got the eyeballs! Now let's get them back before they rot. Or get any more of their goo all over our pack..."



"Welcome back, kiddos. Hm... Are those really going to be used for a ring?"

"Maybe she's trying to help people get thin with fashion that makes them sick?"

"Putting that on my finger... I don't really want to think about it. Just... Just put it in a bag on the counter, will you? And shut it tight, The sight of those things makes me a little queasy..."

At least the game acknowledges how completely absurd insect eyes being used for rings is.

"Right, back into that hidden path. There's got to be more good stuff in there."



Another room with a ragelope...



And meh treasure.

:sigh:



Sleepgels are assholes. They are basically venomgels, but replace 'whole party poison' with 'single party member sleep'.



They then tend to hit that party member with a physical attack, which DOES wake them up, but also deals more damage than it normally would.

"O soft embalmer of the still midnight,
Shutting, with careful fingers and benign,
Our gloom-pleas'd eyes, embower'd from the light,
Enshaded in forgetfulness divine:
O soothest Sleep! if so it please thee, close
In midst of this thine hymn my willing eyes,
Or wait the "Amen," ere thy poppy throws
Around my bed its lulling charities.
Then save me, or the passed day will shine
Upon my pillow, breeding many woes,—
Save me from curious Conscience, that still lords
Its strength for darkness, burrowing like a mole;
Turn the key deftly in the oiled wards,
And seal the hushed Casket of my Soul."

"How... why? What? How is he even doing that?"

"It is fairly impressive."

"I'm just glad I don't share a room with him."



Another room, another ragelope.

"You know what? Don't even tell me what this treasure is. If I hear 'Oh yay, healing herbs' one more time, I'm going to punch someone.




"Hey, Hector?"

"What?"





"You can have my boar spear."

"...New weapon?"

"Yup."

"For gently caress's sake." :mad:

Yeah, this thing's the main reason to come in here - if you can't handle the stuff in here, make a mad dash for the middle room, get this and get out. It is a very, very nice sword upgrade. Still, it's not quite the last thing to find...



"Ooh, new hat!"



Not a bad hat, either. Slight upgrade in both TP and Defense over the red charms.



Also, I mentioned Sloths are strong, and while this might not seem like much, this is the stronger of their two moves, Shred. What's impressive is that this is hitting through defender and immunize. They're not boosted, so they're not doing quite the same absurd reduction we had against the boss, but the two are probably still giving me around 70% damage reduction-ish. These things hit absurdly hard.

"Alright. Nearly done messing around, let's go take care of that spider."



With the quest active, there'll be a new FOE on floor 5 (the one you can see on the map is just a regular wolf that respawned while I was doing the whole 'wait 14 days so Fenrir will show up again' thing.

And this is the deadly FOE in question. As you might guess from a quest in an Atlus game, it'll be a good challenge, so be ready for a long fight, and lots of healing.




"What, is that it?"



"Yeah, apparently. I guess the guild who got beaten by it was made up of four year olds."

Just kidding! It hits like an absolute pussy and dies in a single round. Bit of a letdown, really.



Rewards are shite, too.



No more unfortunate adventurers will fall victim to the formidable poisonous spider. You should report the slaying of the monster back to the pub.

If it's poisonous, it didn't really show it there. I'm fairly sure this thing shows up as a normal monster pretty soon, though, so we'll have plenty of time to get intimately acquainted with what it can do.



"Welcome back, kids. I see you beat that dreadful spider. The other kids in the Guild will be relieved to hear it's safe to go back in the forest. All the young ones look up to Runaway these days, y'know."

"As they should."

"I hate to see them hurt, so I'm grateful myself. Good luck with your adventures."

"No worries. Right, now, on to the second stratum!"



You had undertaken a mission from the Radha to defeat Fenrir! It would be best to report your victory over the beast before exploring this new region.

"Red tape senses... tingling!"



"Screw it, I'll deal with them tomorrow."



"I'm still annoyed about not getting that rapier... this spear is nice, though."



"For such a flimsy-looking sword, this thing's pretty drat great at cutting swathes through enemies."



"And my new hat is... well, it's comfy. And gives me more TP, which is always nice!"



"Barely any lines, and no new stuff. This update sucked. :mad:"



Sadly, when it comes to banter
I'm at less of a sprint, more a canter
I could do with saying more
but I'd really abhor
Hector becoming more of a ranter.

What can I say, I like limericks. :v:

New shop stuff!



The Bravant! Sold over at the apothecary rather than the main store, this is that candy I picked up which buffs attack a bit. It uses up a buff slot, and I'm not a huge fan.

It requires an Amber Lump (from Taking) and a Mugwort (from Chopping), and isn't really worth going out of your way to get. Still, Amber is used in other things, and you'll probably get mugworts when farming money early on, so you'll probably wind up with it available sooner or later.




The gem ring, made from a single Pyroxene. Eh, it gives defense and a bit of lightning resistance, so uh... maybe worth it if you're having trouble fighting something that spams lightning attacks? I think I mentioned a while ago that I tend not to be a huge fan of things that raise a resistance, as I forget they exist.



Made from a single Bent Claw, which drops from Sloths, the nail whip is a bit risky to get your hands on. If you're using a dark hunter, however, it is a very nice upgrade.

If you're not, you won't have anyone who can use whips, and it'll be completely useless. So it really depends on your setup!


Also, I should probably mention this now - in a bit less than a month, my university resumes and I'll have somewhat less time for this, but unless I get completely overwhelmed, I'll try not to put it on hold.

Also to compensate, I'll do my best to put as many updates out between now and then as I can!

Double also, any opinions on the team thus far? Anyone who should be swapped in/out? If there's particular call to see less (or more) of one character, I'm happy to oblige!

Anyway, next time, we'll visit the Radha and finally get started on Stratum 2!

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theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
A couple notes - in EO3, FOEs don't move until the end of a round (at the same time as things like poison ticking), so yes, clearing an encounter in one turn can actually be used to get around FOEs (and will also skip poison damage etc., very useful). If I'm remembering correctly, anyway, and I'm pretty certain I am.

Quests do not give exp in EO2. Most of them also suck. :mad:

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