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Lemmi Caution posted:What? I think what ErIog is saying is that "Lie back and think of That said, singling out Japan for this is a little unfair since at least one (female) US Republican representative said that the concept of marital rape was bunkum since the woman essentially gave her consent for any sexual intercourse with her marriage vows. [edit] It was Phyllis Schafly who stated: "By getting married, the woman has consented to sex, and I don't think you can call it rape,". She's also restated and defended this when interviewed about it later. [re-edit]To row back to something more relevant. I haven't seen anything in the thread about the recent escalation of the rocks in the middle of the sea spat between Japan and China (and Taiwan gamely trying to stick an oar in too). Could someone give a better outline of what triggered things off on the Japanese side? I heard something about a minister essentially being pushed into making a strong statement but the article didn't go into much detail. Munin fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Aug 31, 2012 |
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Aug 31, 2012 13:48
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Munin posted:I think what ErIog is saying is that "Lie back and think of As far as I can tell, the Island (really just rocks in the sea) have been private property of a Japanese family for decades. China has claimed them because, apparently, they do show up on ancient maps. Now the hard-right wing mayor of Tokyo prefecture has announced that he intends to buy the islands from the family, which would make the Japanese state the owner of these islands. Since the central government can't really allow a provincial governor to dictate foreign policy with a nuclear power, they pretty much have to top his offer. Here is a good article of foreignpolicy.com: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/08/14/tokyo_s_hawkish_governor_stirs_the_pot
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Aug 31, 2012 14:43
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ErIog posted:
I don't think this is unique to Japan, at least in the general sense (i.e. people in a culture not really being comforatble talking about its deficiencies. I think that in general (though not 100%) people in any culture learn to live with whatever bullshit their culture has adopted and become uncomfortable and/or dismissive if someone points this out to them. Take the gun culture in the U.S. It's true that gun violence is out of control in this country. But when anyone mentions that we should do something about it, if you don't get the "ARE GUNS  " response than at best the response is sympathetic but uninterested because either the side will never let it happen and/or the task is impossible.
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Aug 31, 2012 18:06
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Lemmi Caution posted:What? I thought about that before bringing it up but I don't want to drop actual debate in the T&T thread, the feminist / women's rights thread has a Western focus, and making an Asian Feminism thread is just 
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Aug 31, 2012 21:57
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Now, I understand that this thread is supposed to be about the Diet or the mayor of Osaka or something. So maybe there should actually be another thread for discussing the lack of a feminist movement in Japan + female rights. However, these are actually important political issues so I don't see that they're off-topic for this thread (which is also a thread that's been pretty much dead for weeks.)Lemmi Caution posted:What? Yes, because gender equality within a society along with sexual attitudes are totally not political matters. This is actually a thing that you are saying? I'm just not sure there's a  emote big enough.There's a lot of false equivalence going on in response to my post. Japan is not alone in having a well-developed rape culture, but the extent to which it persists in 2012 I think would still surprise a lot of people. Take this news story from not that long ago. The parade of horrible things in that story that are completely normal in Japan is pretty shocking. Let's not be crazy. Any US politician saying most of the horrible things quoted in that story would immediately be out on their rear end. Todd Akin says, "legitimate rape" and he's completely hosed whereas in Japan you have people making actual jokes about a rape case on the public record. People may point out that Japan is not alone in having a patriarchy, but the thing people aren't understanding is that feminism is not a thing that happened in Japan. There are very very very few voices speaking out against it in the ways that you see outside Japan. Here's an article that very quickly gives the rundown of how rape is treated and what the rape culture in Japan is like. The reason Japan has a tough time seeing rape as legitimate is because lots of ordinary sexual relations are basically rape role-playing. Japanese dudes get off on hearing a woman say "No." So women learn to say "No." even in cases that are consensual. This creates a huge smoke screen for rapists to perpetrate their crimes, and I think that's the key reason Japan just doesn't take rape seriously as described in that article. "No," is still cute, and the "No means no," movement basically never happened. Japan really is the land that feminism forgot, and I think the people saying "well all countries have their problems with the patriarchy..." don't actually understand how regressive Japanese society and laws are on these matters in the modern day. ErIog fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Aug 31, 2012 |
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Aug 31, 2012 23:19
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Quoting from the article ErIog just posted:CBS Article posted:During a Parliament debate, lawmaker Seiichi Ota, a 57-year-old former Cabinet minister, got a laugh when he quipped: "At least gang rapists are still vigorous. Isn't that at least a little closer to normal?" I think that fits very well in this thread about Japanese Politicians saying things that would be generally seen as utterly beyond the pale. The article also mentions the minister for gender equality, Yasuo Fukuda, contending that his quote of "The problem is that there are lots of women dressed provocatively," during an off the record briefing was taken out of context without being either able or willing to clarify further. Btw, others please feel free to disagree, but I think in this thread it's probably better to focus on the Politicians and Politics side of that issue and approach the societal context from that perspective. Munin fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Aug 31, 2012 23:58
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We probably should have the discussion and information that ErIog posted in this thread, japanese politics is japanese patriarchy ( it's in the thread title ), especially as person focused as those politics are. Also, I for one would like a definite thread that goes far beyond the japanese mainstream trifecta of "videogames, anime and sushi". I feel better with feminist discussions in this thread.
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Sep 1, 2012 01:01
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ErIog posted:Yes, because gender equality within a society along with sexual attitudes are totally not political matters. This is actually a thing that you are saying? I'm just not sure there's a I was very specifically talking about the quote where you said most Japanese women can't even conceive of non-rape sex. I really wish you had just lead with the relevant articles you just posted.
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Sep 1, 2012 02:44
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Grand Fromage posted:That's interesting. I was just in Japan for the first time and was struck how individual everyone seems compared with Korea, but that kind of sexism is different. Korea is sexist as hell too, but all my Korean friends (women) think it's terrible and needs to change. The conformism keeps them from doing anything active about it, though. And some of them end up just going with what Korean society expects even though they hate every bit of it. Others have stopped associating with Korean men entirely and only hang out with western guys since they get treated so much better. I interviewed for a recruiter position with a headhunter in Japan last year. The CEO, who interviewed me, was an American, but he'd been in Japan for about 20 years, IIRC. His attitude was...startling. While describing what the company does he said that they look for Japanese men to fill positions in foreign companies and such and such and whatever. There was emphasis on the the "men." I asked him if they recruited Japanese women as well, and I got a 5 minute lecture on how Japanese women are not suited for leadership roles and that they don't want to devote themselves to careers, so they don't even bother looking at women. I stopped giving a poo poo about that point, and left a pretty bad impression, but not as bad as the one he left on me. Fucker would spend his entire career in court in the US.
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Sep 1, 2012 09:26
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Lemmi Caution posted:I was very specifically talking about the quote where you said most Japanese women can't even conceive of non-rape sex. You're misunderstanding what I said. In your head you're imagining Paul Ryan's version of "forcible rape." I'm talking about sex where a woman keeps saying "no." while making noises like she's in pain because she's been raised steeped in the rape culture that tells her that's what gets dudes off. That looks like rape to me. I have no problem if that's a thing both parties are into, but in Japan that being the normative picture of what a sexual encounter is like is frequently used as a smoke screen by rapists to get away with their crimes. It also has the very creepy side effect of women internalizing that view of sex, not believing it could be any different, and in the end deciding to settle for it in fear that they might spend the rest of their life completely alone if they don't. There's a lot of biotruths thrown around commonly like, "Well...men do behave that way don't they..I guess it just can't be helped!" when the behavior they're referring to involves women saying "no," while guys have intercourse with them. Every reaction in the courts that ends up blaming the victim happens because the victim has trouble proving just why that sexual encounter was any different than what your average Japanese guy in a suit thinks is a normal sexual encounter. It's not surprising the cases happen the way they do when the picture of what sex is looks a hell of a lot like rape to most westerners that are informed on the subject of rape. ErIog fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2012 14:12
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Munin posted:Btw, others please feel free to disagree, but I think in this thread it's probably better to focus on the Politicians and Politics side of that issue and approach the societal context from that perspective.
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Sep 1, 2012 16:01
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Hey! Since we're porting social issues in, let's talk racism in politics there. I brought this up once before somewhere, but I found it interesting since even though Japan's very insular, it's leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of North Asia in accepting Westerners into political life (very tiny leaps and bounds, but at least they exist). Last I checked, there was at least one (white, in this case) Western local official - started off as a mayor or city councilman or something? I think he was in the Diet too. I'm googling, but I can't find him yet. Are there even a small number of non-Asian foreign-born citizens who bother to contest for elections, local or otherwise? Are there any other cases of them holding office? I'd guess most new citizens (much like Asians in the US) keep their heads down and just avoid politics, but as there's been a several-decade history of Western immigration to Japan now I imagine the issue comes up a bit more often than it used to. Also, please keep posting Ishihara quotes. hadji murad got me hooked on him and he's awesome.
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Sep 1, 2012 17:02
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ReindeerF posted:Hey! Since we're porting social issues in, let's talk racism in politics there. I brought this up once before somewhere, but I found it interesting since even though Japan's very insular, it's leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of North Asia in accepting Westerners into political life (very tiny leaps and bounds, but at least they exist). Last I checked, there was at least one (white, in this case) Western local official - started off as a mayor or city councilman or something? I think he was in the Diet too. I'm googling, but I can't find him yet. Are there even a small number of non-Asian foreign-born citizens who bother to contest for elections, local or otherwise? Are there any other cases of them holding office? I'd guess most new citizens (much like Asians in the US) keep their heads down and just avoid politics, but as there's been a several-decade history of Western immigration to Japan now I imagine the issue comes up a bit more often than it used to. Is this the guy you're thinking of? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marutei_Tsurunen
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Sep 1, 2012 18:22
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Lemmi Caution posted:I was very specifically talking about the quote where you said most Japanese women can't even conceive of non-rape sex. This was the exact horrible impression I got from it too, glad it has been clarified, lets certainly move on from that doomed topic.
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Sep 1, 2012 19:38
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So the senkaku islands stuff just got more amusing. Apparently some Chinese twit took out an add in the New York Times, in an attempt to try and drag the US into the affair.  Anyone happen to have this paper to check validity?
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Sep 1, 2012 19:46
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Silver2195 posted:Is this the guy you're thinking of? Anyway, not that anyone in their right mind would want to be involved in Thai politics (too many grenades involved), but we're about fifty years from that kind of thing happening here, heh.
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Sep 1, 2012 21:30
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There's another naturalised white guy who's a local councillor in Tsukuba, too. Jon Heese or something like that.
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Sep 1, 2012 21:33
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Do white people in asian countries take on utterly banal asian names like asian immigrant guys do in the US?
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Sep 1, 2012 21:53
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Spazzle posted:Do white people in asian countries take on utterly banal asian names like asian immigrant guys do in the US?
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Sep 1, 2012 22:01
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Back on track talking about Japanese politics. It's all about corruption and hidden bank accounts. Check out this article:quote:Similarly, John Dower (a member of the JPRI Board of Advisers) comments, "We look at the LDP and say it's corrupt and it's unfortunate to have a one-party democracy. But we have played a role in creating that misshapen structure." (see "C.I.A. Spent Millions to Support Japanese Right in 50's and 60's," New York Times, October 9, 1994.) This is JPRI's interest in this subject. It is historical but it is also directly connected with day-to-day policy-making in Tokyo and Washington now and in the future Here's how they did it: quote:After Japan's surrender on September 2, 1945, a military government was established in Japan by the U.S. armed forces under the command of General Douglas MacArthur. In the early postwar period, General MacArthur saw that financial aid would be required in order to develop democratic institutions in Japan and to rebuild its devastated economy. Primarily because some of these funds would be used to finance political activity deemed necessary to get democratic forces off to a good start, General MacArthur became convinced that it was essential to establish a secret fund. You can read the entire article here: http://www.jpri.org/publications/workingpapers/wp11.html JPRI also has an article detailing the mechanics of corruption and money laundering within the LDP: quote:It was, after all, Kishi who first connected the discredited world of prewar politics to postwar conservative hegemony and it was Kishi who welcomed organized crime and the nationalist rightwing into the mainstream of LDP power. By the 1990s, however, few seemed to remember the connection. By then, Kodama was dead, Sasakawa was weakened and dying, and a range of newly-founded religious organizations had become active -- indeed indispensable -- supporters of the LDP. Kishi's advice echoed faintly. Structural corruption within the "1955 System" was taken for granted. It was just the way things worked. Once you start to see the contours of corruption within the Japanese system, it inevitably leads to interlocking networks among American elites. Once you realize how much gold is out there, and who is holding it, you also begin to realize why some people want a gold standard.
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Sep 3, 2012 23:11
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Kishi Nobusuke was involved in shady post-war poo poo, color me surprised. Who would've seen that coming given everything he'd been involved in the 1930s and 1940s and the people he was involved with.
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Sep 4, 2012 00:12
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ErIog posted:Horror. So is there any feminist movement as we would know it alive in Japan today? Your links were horrifying. I need some positive news.
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Sep 5, 2012 03:57
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ReindeerF posted:Hey! Since we're porting social issues in, let's talk racism in politics there. Renho is like half-Taiwanese and I remember there being a gigantic stir when she was heading those cost-cutting analysis panels because people were all like "how could a non-pure blooded Japanese understand Japan?" and other such bollocks because she was threatening to suggest cutting funding to all sorts of random peoples' pet projects. And then you've got who was it, Kan?, who stated that "we can't have those people [burakumin] in power" during a cabinet meeting. Tsurunen is just the token white dude that is so common in east Asia, just like that guy whose name escapes me who was the tourism minister or whatever for the ROK. Edit: I can't google up that Korean guy's name for the life of me, any help would be appreciated. Sheep fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Sep 6, 2012 |
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Sep 6, 2012 01:06
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Sheep posted:And then you've got who was it, Kan?, who stated that "we can't have those people [burakumin] in power" during a cabinet meeting. That was Taro Aso. The DPJ might be ineffectual but they're rarely as downright offensive as the LDP jerks. edit: Ishihara's another one. He's quick to dismiss anyone who is or smacks of being foreign because, as you said, "how can they understand Japan" yet he's quicker still to make statements and write books based on his deep and nuanced understanding of all the social issues and problems facing the evil republic of Gaikoku. vvvvv I really want to ask him what he thought of all the Korean, Chinese, Black and White (you know that's how he categorises us) riots that took place after the Earthquake last year. Weatherman fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Sep 6, 2012 |
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Sep 6, 2012 02:20
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Well if those sankokujin would just leave Japan instead of trying to cause trouble in the event of natural disasters, we wouldn't have these problems, would we? *shakes fist, wins another election*
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Sep 6, 2012 02:53
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Guys like that keep the world entertaining. I mean, yeah, he shouldn't be allowed to hold office with his insane views, but Goddamn is he unintentionally hilarious. I love reading his translated quotes. If they gave him a talk show in America it would be a ratings smash.
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Sep 6, 2012 03:12
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Sheep posted:Tsurunen is just the token white dude that is so common in east Asia It sounds like he had a long, hard fought political career before gaining his seat, but I suppose it's also possible the DPJ called up hundreds of thousands of people and told them to vote for the white guy because they needed a token one for some reason.
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Sep 6, 2012 04:11
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Taro Aso repeatedly brought up the abduction issue regarding North Korea, when his family used Koreans and Chinese as slave labour in their mines.
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Sep 6, 2012 16:05
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Sheep posted:Renho is like half-Taiwanese and I remember there being a gigantic stir when she was heading those cost-cutting analysis panels because people were all like "how could a non-pure blooded Japanese understand Japan?" and other such bollocks because she was threatening to suggest cutting funding to all sorts of random peoples' pet projects. Koizumi cut him out of the LDP back in 2005, but he must be bringing a tremendous amount of pork back to his district in Okayama because he keeps being re-elected, despite being a scowling, uncharismatic rear end in a top hat, on top of his awful views. Apraxin fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Sep 6, 2012 |
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Sep 6, 2012 16:19
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From his own website:quote:Takeo Hiranuma was born August 3rd in 1939 in Tokyo. He graduated from Keio University. He legally became a son of his great-uncle Kiichiro Hiranuma who was the Prime Minister of Japan in 1939. Kiichiro Hiranuma also served as Chairman of the Privy Council and several cabinet posts such as Minister of State. Takeo Hiranuma's great-grandfather Yoshiro Hiranuma was Dean of the Department of commerce at Waseda University and subsequently became the third President of the university.
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Sep 6, 2012 22:44
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Just Winging It posted:From his own website: On this note, how old is the general Japanese electorate? I was under the impression that most Japanese voters are in their 60s-70s... and they like what people like Ishihara and Hiranuma say.
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Sep 7, 2012 01:55
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BRShooter posted:On this note, how old is the general Japanese electorate? I was under the impression that most Japanese voters are in their 60s-70s... and they like what people like Ishihara and Hiranuma say. A little way down on the thread someone had asked about this. And ozza posted a link: ozza posted:A quick search reveals: http://diamond.jp/articles/-/7508?page=3 Graph shows what could be expected. Voting in the 30 and lower range is low, but 30+ has good turn out. In recent years it has spiked back up some, right around '03. This isn't surprising really since it was around the time Koizumi came to office. I also learned in JP Govt. & Politics that this was also a time when the playing field for Prime Minister election changed. It use to be internal party campaigning. Basically going to each internal faction and gaining their support, since really it is the party that elects the PM based on who has majority (my understanding). But my professor said that Yoshiro Mori showed you could campaign with the public and get the PM spot just as well, it didn't work super well with him though and it really only came to true fruition under Koizumi, who was apparently the underdog during the PM election. He one by populace popularity. Something I am curious about though and I never thought to ask when ozza posted the link. Why does the voter turn out drop precipitously in '91-'97 across all demographics? You would figure with the bubble burst being in full swing that it would motivate people to vote more. So?
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Sep 7, 2012 02:33
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Kenishi posted:
Good question. I'm not sure I know the answer. On the first page of that same article (http://diamond.jp/articles/-/7508) there's another graph showing voter turnout for post-war Lower House elections. There's no real clue in the author's analysis, who just notes that it was a period of 'voter disinterest'. After reading a little more elsewhere it looks like a new electoral system took effect in 1996 that, most significantly, disallowed parties from running more than one candidate in a district. District boundaries were redrawn and people may have been reticent to vote for a set of candidates they weren't familiar with. I'd guess that that was one factor, combined with a general post-bubble malaise. The rate has gone back up to 67% (2005) and 69% (2009) since, though.
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Sep 7, 2012 16:44
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Kenishi posted:senkaku islands stuff
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Sep 17, 2012 02:51
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Yeah can we get a read on the Japanese reaction to the huge protests in China and the Chinese mission to drive some boats in circles around the island? Some people in China are talking loudly about war. I personally think this is all psychodrama for the Chinese people (I almost typed "electorate" lol) to get them to look the other way for the power transfer which is turning out messy. Is there a concomitant frothy lather of spittle in Japanese conversation on the topic, or do they think its as stupid as us expats living in China do?
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Sep 17, 2012 03:28
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From the China thread:PrezCamachoo posted:Oh poo poo Again, if anyone could contribute anything more about the Japanese reaction it would be much appreciated. With this latest move it looks as if things could get very messy indeed.
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Sep 17, 2012 11:44
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Arglebargle III posted:Yeah can we get a read on the Japanese reaction to the huge protests in China and the Chinese mission to drive some boats in circles around the island? Some people in China are talking loudly about war. I personally think this is all psychodrama for the Chinese people (I almost typed "electorate" lol) to get them to look the other way for the power transfer which is turning out messy. Is there a concomitant frothy lather of spittle in Japanese conversation on the topic, or do they think its as stupid as us expats living in China do? The general impression I get is that people are thinking "Oh those Chinese sure are nutty..." and "We would never have crazy protests like that in Japan!" So I guess a general vacillation between apathy, condescension, fear, and bewilderment.
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Sep 17, 2012 14:04
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I'm in Japan on a business trip and I've only heard apathy. I don't think the Japanese I've spoken to are talking WW3 like some posters here. If anything, seems like everyone's bashing Ishihara for not keeping his trap shut. But that could just me being in Tokyo speaking to businessmen.
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Sep 17, 2012 14:19
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There are anti nuclear protests every Friday downtown. Some have had incredibly huge numbers. Most of the non right wing politically minded are more naturally drawn to that. And it isn't only China that they are at loggerheads with. There is the issue with Korea, problems with the government and conflict over American hardware deployment.
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Sep 17, 2012 14:25
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About the nuclear stuff, the government's capitulated and going 0 nuclear by 2030 which I don't see being feasible considering their power generation requirements...
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Sep 17, 2012 14:41
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