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MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




Lacerta posted:

Someone said that Sterek would be creepy because of the age difference. Just for a point of reference, how old was Buffy when she started swapping spit with a centuries-old vampire? I guess that's creepy, too.

Fine, we're all creepy for wanting Sterek.

Yeah, there's a weird thing where Vampires can get away with being pedophiles (okay, yeah, ephebophiles or whatever) because they look young. See: Twilight. Doesn't he knock her up at 16 when he's like two hundred or something? If he was 50, horror, but 200 and looking young is fine.

In any case, the age thing is the reason I'm certain Sterek isn't going to happen. It could if it was a man and a woman - hell, given their interactions so far if it was a man and a woman it'd practically be a matter of time - but if it was a gay relationship then the media (you know who I mean) would just explode with how this show is glorifying homosexual pedophile predators taking advantage of young teens.

Maybe when he's older, but so far a little over four months have passed in the show in two seasons, it might take a while.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Aug 13, 2012

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KilGrey
Mar 13, 2005

You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? Just put your lips together and blow...

MikeJF posted:

Yeah, there's a weird thing where Vampires can get away with being pedophiles (okay, yeah, ephebophiles or whatever) because they look young. See: Twilight. Doesn't he knock her up at 16 when he's like two hundred or something? If he was 50, horror, but 200 and looking young is fine.

Vampires fall into the 'doesn't quite count' category because they stop physically aging at the same or a reasonable age to the person they are wooing. They are perpetual 17 year olds. Yeah, they are technically 200 or whatever but it's one of those hand wavy things you aren't supposed to think about. They try to get by with the 'technically they are 17 still' or whatever age they are. I personally always thought David Borehoweveryouspellit was a bad choice for Angel because he seemed to old for the part. Not just to be paired with Buffy but to the point he couldn't look that young for very long before it was obvious he was getting older. The guy who played Spike (who ironically was older than all of them) managed to stay looking the same throughout the series though.

MikeJF posted:

In any case, the age thing is the reason I'm certain Sterek isn't going to happen. It could if it was a man and a woman - hell, given their interactions so far if it was a man and a woman it'd practically be a matter of time - but if it was a gay relationship then the media (you know who I mean) would just explode with how this show is glorifying homosexual pedophile predators taking advantage of young teens.

It wouldn't be different if it were a man and a woman. It would still be creepy as hell. There is no reason someone in their mid-twenties should be dating a sophomore in high school be it a same or opposite sex couple.

KilGrey fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Aug 13, 2012

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




KilGrey posted:

It wouldn't be different if it were a man and a woman. It would still be creepy as hell. There is no reason someone in their mid-twenties should be dating a sophomore in high school be it a same or opposite sex couple.

Oh, no, I know morally there's no difference, I just mean that if it was a man and woman they could get away with the plotline on TV much more easily, whereas they're much more likely to be attacked by media screaming 'predator!' with an older and younger man.

KilGrey
Mar 13, 2005

You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? Just put your lips together and blow...

MikeJF posted:

Oh, no, I know morally there's no difference, I just mean that if it was a man and woman they could get away with the plotline on TV much more easily.


You're probably right. Other than Buffy, are there other examples if this happening? The chick in Twilight was 18 and they had gotten married before they even had sex for the first time. The author is apparently a religious nut. I'll be very happy when the last movie comes out and I never have to hear about those books/movies/actors anymore.

hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001

Dawson's Creek had a shitload of very illegal relationships. It even opened with the whole Pacey and his teacher thing, and that was played more for the whole We aren't right for each other cliche more than that she should have been in jail. There's also that ep where Jen went on a date or two with the guy who played Shepard in Stargate Atlantis. He had to be at least 15 years older than her, and I think they nearly had sex in her grandma's kitchen table...

But then again this is Dawson's Creek

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




I don't know. Buffy was 17, right? Now British serieses there's examples - look at Skins, for example, and I'm pretty sure others - but their age of consent is 16. No other American examples spring to mind. I could look it up, but I... really don't want to, because I'm afraid of the internet. I feel creepy even having this discussion.

I mean the relevant question you're really asking is examples where it's shown as a positive ongoing relationship. I mean, I'm sure you could find examples where it's shown and it's a bad thing, which is much more acceptable to show, but Buffy's really the only one that springs to mind where it wasn't shown as a negative relationship. Before, y'know, Angel's soul got sucked out and he went evil, but that's unrelated to age.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Aug 13, 2012

Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Reene
Stop stomping out my hopes, guys. :(

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Lacerta posted:

Someone said that Sterek would be creepy because of the age difference. Just for a point of reference, how old was Buffy when she started swapping spit with a centuries-old vampire? I guess that's creepy, too.

Fine, we're all creepy for wanting Sterek.

I thought Derek was young too? Just played by a hilariously non-teenager actor like everybody else?

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




Pick posted:

I thought Derek was young too? Just played by a hilariously non-teenager actor like everybody else?

I don't think even Hollywood would pretend Tyler Hoechlin was 16.

He's older than the gang. Stiles remembered him from being years ahead Beacon Hills High before leaving after the fire.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
Tyler Hoechlin is 24. Tyler Hoechlin was just a wee looking child when he played Tom Hank's son in The Road to Perdition ten years ago.

I remember this because I find it amusing when they get like 29 year olds to play sixteen. Styles and Scott are two of the only people played by actually real teenagers when the show first started. Gage Golightly, Erica, probably the last person playing a teen as an actual teen now that they've hit their 20s.

If we go by the fact he was nailing Kate 6 years before the show started at the time of the fire, Derek has to be roughly his actual age. 22-24ish. So 17/24 hook-up? If we go by the half plus 7 age metric [Science]?

DENIED!

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




Then again Stiles said he was 'only like a few years older than us'.

Eh, who knows. He doesn't look it, but :TVLand:

Lacerta
Oct 17, 2005

Baby, tonight the world belongs to you and I.
When Derek's drivers license is seen, his birthdate is in 1988, which makes him about 24. Him hooking up with a 16 year old would be odd, but I blame the actors. Dylan O'Brien (Stiles) doesn't look 16.

Maybe they'll bring Danny into the main cast and give him a beau? We can hope!

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




Fake licence, though.

Lacerta
Oct 17, 2005

Baby, tonight the world belongs to you and I.

MikeJF posted:

Fake licence, though.

Good point.

Also: this is an interesting article where Jeff Davis talks about the finale of season 2 and some stuff they're going to explore in the first half of season 3, kinda. Not really spoilers, it's all in vague terms. Click this thing.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

quote:

AX: With Lydia, she seems to be the only person who doesn’t know what’s going on.

DAVIS: She will definitely know everything by the end of the season.

THANK. GOD.

KilGrey
Mar 13, 2005

You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? Just put your lips together and blow...

Pick posted:

THANK. GOD.

Bring on Evilydia!

Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Reene
What the hell am I gonna do with my #moondays now? :(

KilGrey
Mar 13, 2005

You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? Just put your lips together and blow...

Azure_Horizon posted:

What the hell am I gonna do with my #moondays now? :(

Watch Grimm. :)

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Azure_Horizon posted:

What the hell am I gonna do with my #moondays now? :(

Post pictures of Dylan O'Brian.

Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Reene

Pick posted:

Post pictures of Dylan O'Brian.

I don't even like twinky guys, but...



I'd be all ova dat. :allears:

Lacerta
Oct 17, 2005

Baby, tonight the world belongs to you and I.
Found the last episode really disappointing. Season peaked with Matt.

Also, I guess Erika and Boyd are dead now. Having Scott suddenly pull some over-complicated scheme to make Gerard swallow mountain ash and replace the pills when Gerard wasn't looking--when? Oh, we find that out in a flashback? loving lazy writing.

Finally Lydia got to find out what the gently caress was going on, though. At least there was that.

edited for continued bitching: My theory is that Jeff Davis wrote himself into a corner.

Lacerta fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Aug 14, 2012

Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Reene

Lacerta posted:

Found the last episode really disappointing. Season peaked with Matt.

Also, I guess Erika and Boyd are dead now. Having Scott suddenly pull some over-complicated scheme to make Gerard swallow mountain ash and replace the pills when Gerard wasn't looking--when? Oh, we find that out in a flashback? loving lazy writing.

Finally Lydia got to find out what the gently caress was going on, though. At least there was that.

edited for continued bitching: My theory is that Jeff Davis wrote himself into a corner.

Yeah... weak finale. Shame.

hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001

I didn't think it was that weak! A little bit rushed in the endgame. There was so much foreshadowing in Gerard's pills that it had to factor in somehow, and Scott's plan made quite a bit of logical sense.

Props to Allison's insane badass moment with those knives. That came out of loving nowhere.

The weakest parts for me were the brief next-season hooks. Not enough teasing. Oh look, an alpha pack sign. Daddy vet and school counselor in leather. The cuts between Scott and Alison, the lead-ins and Scott and Stiles were way too abrupt to give any of the scenes much weight. It's like they were going through a literal checklist of wrap this up - start this plot.

I wonder how they're gonna explain Jackson being magically alive. Dude was in a coroner bag. And what the hell is up with Gerard...



Dylan O'Brien, sustain us until next season.

hope and vaseline fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Aug 14, 2012

Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Reene
I don't get why he doesn't get shirtless with the rest of them. He's not muscley, but he's quite toned for a twink.

Season 3, now with shirtless Dylan O'Brian!




Okay, yeah, this show makes me gayverload.

Vhak lord of hate
Jun 6, 2008

I AM DRINK THE BLOOD OF JESUS

Azure_Horizon posted:

I don't get why he doesn't get shirtless with the rest of them. He's not muscley, but he's quite toned for a twink.

Season 3, now with shirtless Dylan O'Brian!




Okay, yeah, this show makes me gayverload.

There was a scene this season that actually made me think about that, they're in the locker room and Styles is changing his shirt but Scott's locker blocks the whole thing. But the locker is like perfectly timed to block out any of Style's chest, after he's done changing the locker is closed.

Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Reene

Vhak lord of hate posted:

There was a scene this season that actually made me think about that, they're in the locker room and Styles is changing his shirt but Scott's locker blocks the whole thing. But the locker is like perfectly timed to block out any of Style's chest, after he's done changing the locker is closed.

They interviewed him about it and he claimed it was because he didn't want to diet and exercise like 3 hours a day to match the other guys on the cast. But, well he doesn't need to. He totally has a six-pack.

KilGrey
Mar 13, 2005

You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? Just put your lips together and blow...

Lacerta posted:

Having Scott suddenly pull some over-complicated scheme to make Gerard swallow mountain ash and replace the pills when Gerard wasn't looking--when? Oh, we find that out in a flashback? loving lazy writing.

That was last episode that happened in. Or the episode before, I forget. It wasn't a never seen before flashback. It was pretty obvious with how many times we saw Gerard take the pills and then the weirdness of him dropping it and Scott giving them back that something was going to happen with them. Honestly, it kinda irritated me how obvious it was.

It was an okay finale. I didn't realize there were only 12 episodes in a season though. :( It kinda irritated me how Allison was just all, "Oops, sorry!" and Scott was like "hey, you just went psycho, tortured and almost killed my friends but no biggie!" The part with Jackson and Lydia wasn't as cheesy and corny as it could have been and I'm thankful for that. I was really dreading the "Jackson, remember who you are!" speech that I was sure was going to come. Glad they just did it with a sweet flashback. I hope Erika and...that guy whose name I can't remember because they've done jack poo poo with him aren't dead. They both had potential and if they are dead that's kinda sucky. Not to mention I wouldn't mind Erika going a bit ape poo poo on Allison. Now that would be an awkward hallway meeting between classes.

And I think they cover up Stiles because he's supposed to be the awkward, lanky nerd type. Him being all muscley hampers that.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




So I guess Derek is suddenly okay with Peter having deliberately killed Laura, then? Death and resurrection clears all manner of familicidal sin?

Vhak lord of hate posted:

There was a scene this season that actually made me think about that, they're in the locker room and Styles is changing his shirt but Scott's locker blocks the whole thing. But the locker is like perfectly timed to block out any of Style's chest, after he's done changing the locker is closed.

There were a few of those, apparently - the show runners said they inserted them deliberately to tease fans after they kept getting asked why Stiles never got shirtless.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Aug 14, 2012

hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001

Derp, what was the point of Stiles getting kidnapped again?

erazure
Oct 23, 2005

MikeJF posted:

So I guess Derek is suddenly okay with Peter having deliberately killed Laura, then? Death and resurrection clears all manner of familicidal sin?


This and the glaring lack of anybody addressing the Victoria Argent plot point even at the most dramatically appropriate moment, what the gently caress. I know this last episode was a little packed full, but jesus chris, USE THE MELODRAMA YOU CREATED, DAVIS.

Hope and Vaseline posted:

Derp, what was the point of Stiles getting kidnapped again?


I think Gerard was trying to antagonize Scott into something, based on dialogue, which would possibly explain why Stiles wasn't playing into his plans and spent the entire episode jerking off hiding it from Scott, but he and Lydia fell through a giant plothole that spit them out, Jeep and all, into the warehouse scene; maybe the explanation fell out along the way :v:

PappasKurtz
Jul 14, 2005
Amicus Triumvirate
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Papa Argent release Erica, Boyd, and Stiles?

I'm really disappointed they're moving production from Atlanta to Los Angeles. The only reason they were in Atlanta was because of a tax credit--really? Really? :(

I think the finale was a little rushed, too. I hope a full 23-episode season will help with fleshing out the minor story lines. The show seems to suffer from OMG-WHAT'S-GOING-TO-HAPPEN-NEXT-WEEK?!?! syndrome due to the short season, and with such anticipation building every week, it makes it really hard to satisfy all the hype for the finale.

I'm glad we finally see Jackson werewolf. :) Right before Scott made Derek bite Gerard, did Derek say something about Gerard becoming Scott's alpha or something?

KilGrey posted:

Not to mention I wouldn't mind Erika going a bit ape poo poo on Allison. Now that would be an awkward hallway meeting between classes.


Allison pisses me off, honestly. I think she gets away with everything because she's supposed to be innocent and manipulated, but it annoys me how dumb she can be sometimes.

PappasKurtz fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Aug 15, 2012

Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Reene
I was confused at first as to why Jackson's a werewolf but then I remembered that a kanima is an "incomplete werewolf", burdened by unresolved issues. I kind of wish it wasn't just Lydia, though. He had issues with everyone -- my favorite episode, "Frenemy", had that scene (I think) where he's in the police van and sheds a tear when Scott says that he has no one, no friends and such.

Wonder if this will lead to a better Jackson.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




PappasKurtz posted:

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Papa Argent release Erica, Boyd, and Stiles?

Erica and Boyd, Stiles was already gone by then.

PappasKurtz posted:

I'm glad we finally see Jackson werewolf. :) Right before Scott made Derek bite Gerard, did Derek say something about Gerard becoming Scott's alpha or something?

Just an alpha. He was going to turn and promptly kill Derek for his Alphahood.

Slamhound
Mar 27, 2010
This show is equal parts Carefully-Plotted-Character-Study, and Oh-poo poo!-We-Forgot-About-These-Things-And-People!

Like a final where you know the quadratic equation backwards and forwards, but completely forget the order of operations.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Son of a bitch, I hated this wrap-up. Jackson's been PURE poo poo to Lydia and she has dished zero back and suddenly it's twoo wuv again?! Go to hell! And I lost my bet, too :argh:. Plus, plus, where the gently caress was Danny when his BEST FRIEND DIED? Throw me a bone[r] here you assholes! And Scott and Stiles REMARKING that they're back at square one doesn't help the fact that you're back at square one! Boooooo.

Plus, I was loving SURE I was promised a death. And no one died. What is this poo poo? Not even Gerard, technically? When a new pack is in town AND Peter is now hanging around?

The only good thing was that Peter survived. Team Peter.

WTFers:

- What was with Jackson's whole "we" bit when tripping as the Kanima? Was this not important?
- What's with the eyesnake?
- What's with Jackson coming out of the water in the season starter?
- What has Lydia been doing in between this poo poo? Did she just walk home and be like "HEY MOM".
- Where was Danny when his best friend died?
- How are they going to explain Jackson's survival? People, like, saw him die???
- How did Matt get Harris' car?
- Where the hell is Harris? Wasn't he arrested when they thought he was a murderer?
- Did anyone notice Matt got loving murderdrowned? Like I guess this town is just retarded or something.
- Why is Isaac just hanging out? He's not 18, breet breet child services. His parents are deaaaadddd.
- Restraining order=forgotten?
- christ jesus

Pick fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Aug 15, 2012

erazure
Oct 23, 2005

Yeah, much the same with a lot of bitching about the loose ends being less some loose ends and more like a ... fringe. A fringe of plotholes and ignored details.

A few, though, were kinda vaguely covered, only not: Jackson coming out of the water was claimed to be "important to the future" in some Davis interview. Stiles and Magical Colored Person #2 refer to Matt's death during the counselling session opener of 2x11. Isaac, Boyd and Erica were referred to as "the three runaways" by... somebody, so they've been (presumably) dodging cops and school while dodging hunters and poo poo.

Also, one of the post-finale interviews with Davis claims they filmed an ending where Jackson doesn't survive getting DP'd by the Hales, and apparently not even Colton Haynes knew which they were going to use. So... there was a main cast death! It just, you know, got written out presumably near last minute, as "last minute" as major editing for the teevee can be.

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007




Grimey Drawer
I'm just now posting about this show and I have to say I'm baffled by the insistence in this topic of "Gay Wolf"-ing so much, at least with Stiles and Derek. Allow me to say this with the caveat that I am a confidently straight man (who likes pro wrestling, Glee, and this show; feel free to make your own jokes). To be clear, I have absolutely no qualms with there being a gay relationship on the show. It's like you guys say, I'm sure it appeals to the primary target audience (I enjoy the show primarily because I loving love any manner of supernatural action show: Buffy, Angel, this, Supernatural, Grimm, etc.; I just am a sucker for the genre. Oh, and Lydia :swoon:) and the fact that the actors/show creators seemingly want to do it is awesome and all. I guess I just always found "shipping" sort of silly, especially in instances where one of the characters in question at least APPEARS to be straight. Yes, I realize the closet is probably an extremely powerful thing, but unless there's some interview or something that I missed where Stiles is or may be gay (forgive me, I don't follow the behind the scenes stuff with this show) I haven't seen any indication at all with his characterization to suggest that.

Furthermore, I don't find it creepy because of any age difference, I more find it weird because any interactions the two characters have had has absolutely screamed big brother/little brother to me more than sexual or romantic tension. Someone help me out here if I'm missing something.

Oh and the thing that bothered me most was the Jackson/Lydia reunion because Jackson is a loving prick and what, all of a sudden she totally forgets Stiles? It's a terrible example and, more importantly, terrible characterization and writing, considering the entire first half of the episode seemed to be leading to something between Lydia and Stiles.

SamuraiFoochs fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Aug 15, 2012

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




SamuraiFoochs posted:

I guess I just always found "shipping" sort of silly, especially in instances where one of the characters in question at least APPEARS to be straight. Yes, I realize the closet is probably an extremely powerful thing, but unless there's some interview or something that I missed where Stiles is or may be gay (forgive me, I don't follow the behind the scenes stuff with this show) I haven't seen any indication at all with his characterization to suggest that.

Well, there were a few different scenes back in season one where he was speculating or straight-up asking Danny about how attractive he found him, but mostly the answer to this bit, as far as I can see, is that shippers tend to plain up ignore sexuality and plonk whoever they like together. To be fair, I suppose, taking a fictional character or two from straight to bisexual ain't hard, even if mainstream TV tends to forget bisexuality exists.

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007




Grimey Drawer

MikeJF posted:

Well, there were a few different scenes back in season one where he was speculating or straight-up asking Danny about how attractive he found him, but mostly the answer to this bit, as far as I can see, is that shippers tend to plain up ignore sexuality and plonk whoever they like together. To be fair, I suppose, taking a fictional character or two from straight to bisexual ain't hard, even if mainstream TV tends to forget bisexuality exists.

This is fair. I'm part of a minority (I'm physically disabled) and I can understand at least from that respect how it feels to pine for on-TV romantic relationships that I can relate to. And I also think it'd be cool for there to be more bi characters on TV, male or female. I feel for bi people (I have several bi friends) because I feel like half the world probably thinks it's a phase, and a fair portion of the rest just thinks they're in the closet.

I guess I'm just saying as a mostly impartial observer it seems kind of a stretch to me for Stiles and Derek to become involved all of a sudden. For what it's worth though, I personally really like the Stiles and Lydia dynamic. I'm a sucker for long-time crushes being realized. :3:

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MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




SamuraiFoochs posted:

I guess I'm just saying as a mostly impartial observer it seems kind of a stretch to me for Stiles and Derek to become involved all of a sudden.

They're two hotties who irritate each other, snipe at each other, are constantly sarcastic and threatening and Derek has a tendency to throw Stiles around and put him down - but keep on finding themselves having to work together or save each other's lives. It's a shipper match made in heaven. Think when Xander and Cordelia got together on Buffy.

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