|
The Imperium, as a whole, is pretty unintelligent, and ignorant about things. They are just normal people living in their hyperindustrialized religious cities, and they know only what they need to know. There has been reference made to the fact that most of them don't even know that the traitor astartes even exist. As you go up the heirarchy though, them more and more knowlege becomes availale. Even then, the higher ups probably don't know everything. Then you have the Inquisition. They are the ones who tend to know the most, as it is their duty to understand, investigate, and refuse the xenos, heretics and demons. It is also their duty to censor any information that they deem to be damaging to the Imperium, even if that means exterminating everything on a planet. (Like whiping out the citizens of Armageddon after the first war because they fought chaos.) By the way, what is the name of the book involving the Space Wolves during the first war for Armageddon? It seemed interesting to me, and I would like to pick it up. I just forget the name. jadebullet fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jul 22, 2012 |
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 17:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 17, 2024 00:14 |
|
|
jadebullet posted:By the way, what is the name of the book involving the Space Wolves during the first war for Armageddon? It seemed interesting to me, and I would like to pick it up. I just forget the name. The Emperor's Gift by Dembski-Bowden.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 17:14
|
|
|
Oh, awesome, it is written by Dembski-Bowden. That makes it even more desirable to me. Thanks man. Edit: Yup, found the book about the inquisitor. It is Chaos Child by Ian Watson. Writing wise, it really wasn't that bad, though the description of Emperor's Children raping people was a bit much, but fluff and story wise, it was pretty hosed up. By the way, what is this bit about a dancing dreadnaught. It must have been from the other two books in the series. jadebullet fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jul 22, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 17:21
|
|
|
Primarch Khan entered and got lost in the Webway, so clearly humans know something about it and how to enter it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 17:44
|
|
|
He wasn't lost so much as he was captured and subjected to, give or take, ten thousand years of torture by the Dark Eldar.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 17:53
|
|
|
Fried Chicken posted:Primarch Khan entered and got lost in the Webway, so clearly humans know something about it and how to enter it. Primarchs are legendary demigods from 10,000 years ago, not regular people.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 18:09
|
|
|
A question about Blanks: Blanks are repulsive to other humans, especially psykers, but what about each other? Can Blanks tolerate each other's presence? The Emperor once had a paramilitary force called the Sisters of Silence - if these blanks were able to form a group they must have been able to bond emotionally with each other.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 20:30
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:they must have been able to bond emotionally with each other. Let's not go too far here.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 21:26
|
|
|
As in comrades-in-arms. Soldiers need to bond with each other in order to form a cooperative group that can handle the rigors of war.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 21:36
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:As in comrades-in-arms. Soldiers need to bond with each other in order to form a cooperative group that can handle the rigors of war. Yes I know. But on the other hand, Warhammer
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 21:41
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:A question about Blanks: Blanks are repulsive to other humans, especially psykers, but what about each other? Can Blanks tolerate each other's presence? The Emperor once had a paramilitary force called the Sisters of Silence - if these blanks were able to form a group they must have been able to bond emotionally with each other. As I understand it, the feeling of wrongness a blank exudes expresses itself in many ways; the most powerful (think capital-P Pariah level) exude an aura of 'should not be' that makes them more terrifying than most daemons- at least daemons are part of the Warp, which is in itself part of the universe. Even if one does not have a soul, one can still feel that aura emanating from them. And at the other end of the scale is people like Ciaphas Cain's aide Jurgen, who while being able to disrupt psychic signals, is relatively 'un-blank' enough to simply come across as platemail-rumplingly scruffy. I guess the big E only plonked Jurgen-level ladies together in the Sisters, maybe?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2012 22:15
|
|
|
CommissarMega posted:As I understand it, the feeling of wrongness a blank exudes expresses itself in many ways; the most powerful (think capital-P Pariah level) exude an aura of 'should not be' that makes them more terrifying than most daemons- at least daemons are part of the Warp, which is in itself part of the universe. Even if one does not have a soul, one can still feel that aura emanating from them. I think Necron Pariah's have their 'blankness' amplified but most of the blanks from the fluff just seem to be normal human beings capable of working and connecting with other people. They're only seem to be extremely repulsive to pskyers but to normal humans, I always figured they just seemed weird or a bit off. The three most memorable Blanks from the fluff, Jurgen, Bequin and Frauka. All three were okay working with others but had characteristics that would put people off.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 00:30
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:Yeah, I know of that, but why couldn't they access it like the Eldar do? Why did they need to build that gateway on Terra? Why can't humans access the existing gates the Old Ones built? Because GW don't always remember if "The Old Ones" or the Eldar built the drat thing in the first place. Humans have been into it, it takes a Farseer to prevent a gate collapsing and this one time Gotrek and Felix got lost in it (no really). Baron Bifford posted:So how does the Imperium figure the Eldar move around? All they'd have to do is capture an Eldar outcast with a grudge against his people or who is so utterly selfish (every society has these types) that he would sell out his people in exchange for riches. CommissarMega posted:As I understand it, the feeling of wrongness a blank exudes expresses itself in many ways; the most powerful (think capital-P Pariah level) exude an aura of 'should not be' that makes them more terrifying than most daemons- at least daemons are part of the Warp, which is in itself part of the universe. Even if one does not have a soul, one can still feel that aura emanating from them. Now how would a black hole be able to find another black hole when it can't see the light?
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 00:44
|
|
|
Selling a nice lot of Dan Abnett books Books
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 02:33
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:So how does the Imperium figure the Eldar move around? All they'd have to do is capture an Eldar outcast with a grudge against his people or who is so utterly selfish (every society has these types) that he would sell out his people in exchange for riches. I think you're about 25 years behind on the fluff. It's not Rogue Trader 1st edition anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 04:59
|
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:
That wasn't the webway, and Warhammer Fantasy does not take place in the same universe as 40k. Also Teclis is not a farseer 
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 05:02
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:That wasn't the webway, and Warhammer Fantasy does not take place in the same universe as 40k. Also Teclis is not a farseer
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 15:54
|
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:It was when Bill King started writing for them and damned if he's giving up on it just because he's been told to. The magical network in Giantslayer is analogous to the webway (the same way that WHF elves are similar to 40k Eldar), but saying they're the same thing will only serve to confuse people who are new to the settings. Anyways, I'm about a third of the way through Luthor Huss and so far, it's very, very good -- Chris Wraight obviously enjoys writing in the Old World setting. It helps too that the book is more focused than some of his more recent works -- off the top of my head, Wrath of Iron was told from something like eight different perspectives and suffered for it. Luthor Huss basically sticks to Luthor and his companions, a witch hunter and his companions, and some flashbacks to Luthor's childhood and it is so much stronger for it. Speaking of Chris Wraight, Sword of Justice and Sword of Vengeance are being released in September as an omnibus called Swords of the Emperor. If you haven't read those books yet and haven't preordered the omnibus then you are a bad person. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jul 23, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 16:43
|
|
|
If the setting wasn't so confusing it'd probably be less fun to mock.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 17:49
|
|
|
The Fantasy world used to be "no really I swear you guys" not in the 40k universe (nudge nudge wink wink). This was borne out by the Albion campaign, which ended with magic items that were just 40k items (a Rosarius, a Bolter) being made available to numerous factions. It also included sketches of warriors of Chaos who came from the Realm of Chaos and were just Chaos Space Marines. Also the rumors that Sigmar was a lost primarch and that the whole Fantasy world was in the Eye of Terror as a training ground for aspiring Chaos champions. Basically GW's fluff has never not been hosed eight ways from The Feast of Saint Kiodrus and attempting to unfuck it is boring and lame.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 19:55
|
|
|
A chainsword also makes an appearance as a mystic artifact in one of the Mark of Chaos lore books that were released years ago. Still wish they would actually do more of those instead of just focusing on normal fiction.  The closest you get now is Imperial Armour but they're expensive as hell though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 21:46
|
|
|
DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Basically GW's fluff has never not been hosed eight ways from The Feast of Saint Kiodrus and attempting to unfuck it is boring and lame. I am a huge nerd and have no idea what that event was apart from Kiodrus being one of Saint Sabbat's aides?
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2012 22:15
|
|
|
Cooked Auto posted:A chainsword also makes an appearance as a mystic artifact in one of the Mark of Chaos lore books that were released years ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 01:21
|
|
|
Speaking of the missing primarchs. I know there isn't much detail about them but it seems like in Heresy they seem to hint pretty strongly that one of them killed the other and Russ was forced to sanction the aggressor. I think I got most of this impression from Prospero Burns.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 09:08
|
|
|
Therion posted:It's actually a Dune ripoff but the Starcraft thing is great to infuriate hardcore 'hams with. How is 40K a Dune rip off?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 13:36
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Anyways, I'm about a third of the way through Luthor Huss and so far, it's very, very good -- Chris Wraight obviously enjoys writing in the Old World setting. It helps too that the book is more focused than some of his more recent works -- off the top of my head, Wrath of Iron was told from something like eight different perspectives and suffered for it. Luthor Huss basically sticks to Luthor and his companions, a witch hunter and his companions, and some flashbacks to Luthor's childhood and it is so much stronger for it. I'm starting Luthor Huss on Friday when I finish the bar, so this is encouraging, thanks. I don't think I ever read Wrath of Iron - is it worth the read or hurts so badly it's a pass?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 15:03
|
|
|
Zhent posted:I'm starting Luthor Huss on Friday when I finish the bar, so this is encouraging, thanks. I don't think I ever read Wrath of Iron - is it worth the read or hurts so badly it's a pass? It's worth reading, and above average for Black Library simply because Wraight is a very capable writer. It's just a bit unfocused, and doesn't take advantage of a lot of the themes it introduces early on. In a way, it's refreshing to have a Battles book that doesn't try to show you how the featured chapter is "cool", but it's a really, really grim book.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 15:47
|
|
|
Aziraphale posted:How is 40K a Dune rip off? There is an Emperor, AI is prohibited, etc. The influence is definitely there, whether or not you want to call it a "ripoff" is on you I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 15:49
|
|
|
Aziraphale posted:How is 40K a Dune rip off? The God-Emperor (sequel book), the Navigators, and the ban on AI.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 15:54
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:The God-Emperor (sequel book), the Navigators, and the ban on AI. My understanding was that it used to be a lot more blatant in the Rogue Trader days but the lore sort of grew into its own after an edition or two. The basic concept is fairly derivative of Dune (Feudal far future with advanced technology being relatively scarce, powerful rogue trader houses vying for power and riches) and also of Warhammer Fantasy (basically all of the Rogue Trader-era aliens were counterparts to WHF races) but once the focus was taken off Rogue Traders the Imperium got developed into the unique and fascinating hellhole we've come to know and love.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 16:31
|
|
|
I don't get why the writers copied the AI ban. Why would AIs be incompatible with the Imperium of Man's themes?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 19:50
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:I don't get why the writers copied the AI ban. Why would AIs be incompatible with the Imperium of Man's themes? Because then the Imperium of Man uses cyborgized lobotomized dissidents instead of robots, which is way more grimdark.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 19:53
|
|
|
The AI thing is also related to some old fluff regarding Iron man from the period of dark age of technology.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 19:57
|
|
|
Dark, dark, darkety-dark. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 19:58
|
|
|
The fluff line is that AIs became self-aware and rebelled against humans during the Dark Age of Technology, and were eventually put down after considerable losses. The Emperor decreed that no true AIs could ever be built again, leading to the use of machine spirits and servitors.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 20:00
|
|
|
I know what the fluff says, but what purpose did the writers have in mind to establish that in the first place? Why did they decide that EDIs and HAL 9000s were unsuitable for their particular vision of the 41st millennium? It was just so that they could use servitors?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 20:06
|
|
|
They use AIs; advanced machine spirits are just that (more basic ones are expert systems, and lower is just general programming or not even a thing). However, they're not fashioned to think like humans, but instead be like sort of an animal sapience related to its task. You could say, for instance, that the AI that drives a Land Raider is like an attack dog in scope and personality. And that fulfills the edict: you may not fashion an artificial construct in the likeness of man.Baron Bifford posted:I know what the fluff says, but what purpose did the writers have in mind to establish that in the first place? Why did they decide that EDIs and HAL 9000s were unsuitable for their particular vision of the 41st millennium? It was just so that they could use servitors? Because 40k, and the Imperium in particular, is extremely human-centric in a xenophobic fashion. Humans, humans only, against everything and everyone else. Having talking computers or an android is not much more different from being pals with that big warrior poet guy with the ridged forehead, which is completely opposed with what they were aiming for since 2nd ED. The Imperium of Man is not the Federation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 20:14
|
|
|
I think a lot of these more general fluff questions that aren't related to a particular story might be better answered over in the 40k thread in TG, and we should try to keep this thread focused on Black Library content. Otherwise it will just turn into a 40k A/T thread.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2012 20:40
|
|
|
Aziraphale posted:How is 40K a Dune rip off?  Also the AI/Butlerian Jihad thing. They never *really* go into why AI is bad in 40k, but basically that's why. The Chaos stuff is straight out of Fantasy, which stuck names on a few new gods but otherwise lifted most of the world from Elric.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2012 05:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 17, 2024 00:14 |
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:Also the AI/Butlerian Jihad thing. They never *really* go into why AI is bad in 40k, but basically that's why. Yep. If anyone's interested, there's quite a bit of discussion on the AI issue in the Horus Heresy book Mechanicum, which is itself a very solid read.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2012 06:33
|
|