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An eighth person has died at the hospital and children and at least two pregnant women are amongst those injured. The tally of injuries has also been increased from 27 to 30.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:26 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 16:32 |
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poo poo's been getting tense with Iran lately. Will this be the powderkeg to set things off? Honestly I think Iran knows better than to do stupid poo poo like this. People call it a rogue state, and it certainly does have its share of problems, but I don't think it's in their prolonged interest to blow up a bus full of Israeli tourists in Bulgaria for no other reason than to just be dicks.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:26 |
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Creepy Goat posted:I'd me more inclined to believe Israel allowing it to happen as opposed to actually blowing up their own citizens on EU soil so they can go "HA! We told you Iran was nasty!". Seriously. Israel don't false flag their own people. Just doesn't fit their MO. It's easier to let a terrorist attack happen then blame it on a state actor you conveniently want to nuke.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:26 |
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GreenCard78 posted:Why attack Bulgaria? Easy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_AMIA_bombing Iran has an MO of hitting soft Israeli/Jewish targets abroad, yeah. They've done it before. I'd imagine it's much easier to get away with it in Bulgaria and Argentina, and it's not the World War III-inducing stuff an attack on Israeli or American soil would be. That said, of course I hope it wasn't their government  edit: gently caress, it's the anniversary of AMIA
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:30 |
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So is there any evidence that Iran is behind this besides Israeli war mongering? This is just another Gulf of Tonkin event. There's almost no evidence Iran was behind the AMIA bombing either. Any guess as to who perpetrated either attack is absolute speculation. There is no evidence either way in either case.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:35 |
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Iran and Israel don't share any borders. I don't see how Israel could start a war even if they wanted to. I don't think they have the resources for a sustained air campaign. The best they could do is drop a few bombs and hope for the best. The Post is running the story, I don't know about the other Canadian papers. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...e-dead-reports/
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:37 |
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Darth123123 posted:Not baseless, but perhaps unnecessarily inflamatory if you change AQ to Iran. Why even call out anyone this early. "We don't know what happened yet, we'll be investigating the cause and potential perpetrators immediately." Why is that? Iran has sponsored terrorist actions in the past and given their acrimonious relationship with Israel (and their sponsorship of some terrorist organizations) I don't find it hard to believe that it is a possibility. I'm reallylooking forward to the rampant anti-Israeli sentiment over that statement.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:38 |
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MrQwerty posted:I fail to see how ending the conscription waivers can't be both ending the religious right's ability to be utter leeches upon society and a boon to the number of bodies available to the military of a nation that's obsessed with provoking a war with a neighbor that is attempting to be a regional hegemon. Because if Israel were to go to war with Iran it would be via bombing campaign and not a land war where they would need even more conscripts than they already have.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:38 |
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wtftastic posted:Why is that? Iran has sponsored terrorist actions in the past and given their acrimonious relationship with Israel (and their sponsorship of some terrorist organizations) I don't find it hard to believe that it is a possibility. Name one. Be aware Hezbollah does not equal Iran.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:40 |
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ilc23 posted:Name one. Except that it does receive massive amounts of arms and money from Iran.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:42 |
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Mr.48 posted:Except that it does receive massive amounts of arms and money from Iran. It also receives massive amounts of arms and money from Syria. So why is it Iran that's responsible here?
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:43 |
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ilc23 posted:It also receives massive amounts of arms and money from Syria. So why is it Iran that's responsible here? Both Iran and Syria (who are incidentally, allies) are responsible for Hezbollah.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:43 |
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Hezbollah just denied any involvement though
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:44 |
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Istrian posted:Hezbollah just denied any involvement though Nobody is saying thats its Hezbollah in particular, just that Iran is known for sponsoring organizations like Hezbollah that occasionally carry out terrorist attacks. Therefore its not outlandish to suspect Iran's involvement just based on past experience, although it could be someone unrelated to Iran.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:46 |
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Mr.48 posted:Therefore its not outlandish to suspect Iran's involvement just based on past experience. It is however outlandish to immediately point fingers at Iran based on exactly no evidence other than general acrimony between the two.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:47 |
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Hell for all we know it could just be some right wing group based in Bulgaria, which has nothing to do with the middle east iran islam or any of that poo poo in any way.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:47 |
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Mr.48 posted:Nobody is saying thats its Hezbollah in particular, just that Iran is known for sponsoring organizations like Hezbollah that occasionally carry out terrorist attacks. Therefore its not outlandish to suspect Iran's involvement just based on past experience, although it could be someone unrelated to Iran. But it is, because it would indicate Iran carrying out terrorist attacks of it's own, not funding a political governing organization of a country that happens to carry out terrorist attacks. It would mean a significant shift in how Iran operates. Although considering how Israel and the USA have basically been committing acts of war on them via cyber terrorism (Something several congressmen have stated should be considered acts of war if they are carried out on us) it would make sense. Nonetheless there is zero evidence here. Just speculation. It could of as easily been a Bulgarian White Nationalist group. There's as much evidence that it was, whichi s zero.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:49 |
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ReidRansom posted:It is however outlandish to immediately point fingers at Iran based on exactly no evidence other than general acrimony between the two. How do you know there's no evidence? Are you there? Have you investigated the bomb blast, discovered who the bomber is, where he or she came from, what their motivations were?
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:51 |
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ReidRansom posted:It is however outlandish to immediately point fingers at Iran based on exactly no evidence other than general acrimony between the two. That was my point. They aren't suspecting, they are outright declaring. Also from the CNN article: "Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu pointed the finger at Iran, saying it has been behind a string of recent attempted attacks on Israelis in Thailand, India and Georgia, among others." Has anything ever been proven for any of these cases besides 'they said Iran is behind it'? I'd think that would be pretty major news. e: press for porn posted:How do you know there's no evidence? Are you there? Have you investigated the bomb blast, discovered who the bomber is, where he or she came from, what their motivations were? Thanks for making the point as well, we don't know it is yet, so we should say who it is.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:53 |
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press for porn posted:oh boy This is the state of American "journalism." Fox and other news outlets have used questions as a mechanism to sway popular opinion for a bunch of years now. Even entertainment gossip does this. "Did Mel Gibson get a tattoo of a swastika?" You know, things like that. It's planting a seed, and for something as delicate as Israel/Iran/US relations, I don't need to tell you how loving dangerous that is. I wish journalism had lived up to its potential but it's irreversible.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:54 |
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Joey_Redd posted:Hell for all we know it could just be some right wing group based in Bulgaria, which has nothing to do with the middle east iran islam or any of that poo poo in any way. I think this is the most unlikely scenario proposed yet. Right wing groups in Europe tend to focus on hating muslims and see Israel as a natural ally in that pursuit. Unless you mean neo-nazis or something, but they are almost never that organized and they tend to target muslims and "blacks" far more than Israelis. Bulgaria is about 10% muslim so its possible that some home grown Islamist fanatic did this, but considering that apparently one such attack was already stopped earlier this month in Bulgaria that seems exceedingly unlikely. In my opinion this is going to be one of the known anti-Israeli or Islamist groups.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:56 |
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press for porn posted:How do you know there's no evidence? Are you there? Have you investigated the bomb blast, discovered who the bomber is, where he or she came from, what their motivations were? Please. Take that poo poo back to the schoolyard or the Fox News messageboards. Netanyahu's first statement on the matter implicated Iran, even as the thing was still smoking. There is no evidence beyond it being the anniversary of another bombing they suspect Iran was behind. They'll put the pieces together over the coming days, I'm sure, but it's foolish to immediately place blame unless you've already decided on the conclusion you want to reach irrespective of evidence. e: in which case it makes you a belligerent rear end in a top hat ee: either of which is easily applicable to Israel
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:57 |
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A Pale Horse posted:I think this is the most unlikely scenario proposed yet. Right wing groups in Europe tend to focus on hating muslims and see Israel as a natural ally in that pursuit. Unless you mean neo-nazis or something, but they are almost never that organized and they tend to target muslims and "blacks" far more than Israelis. Bulgaria is about 10% muslim so its possible that some home grown Islamist fanatic did this, but considering that apparently one such attack was already stopped earlier this month in Bulgaria that seems exceedingly unlikely. In my opinion this is going to be one of the known anti-Israeli or Islamist groups. Neo-Nazis in Eastern Europe don't care for Jews or muslims alike. My point with that statement is no one really knows and all of a sudden it's Iran. Iran is going all around the world blowing up buses full of Israeli tourists. I just don't know if I can accept that as a solid answer.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 18:59 |
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Joey_Redd posted:Neo-Nazis in Eastern Europe don't care for Jews or muslims alike. It it was a bus full of gypsies (even muslims) and instead not blown but lit on fire, then most probably yes. But to intercept a charter flight from Israel and bomb it, not really...
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:03 |
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Istrian posted:It it was a bus full of gypsies (even muslims) and instead not blown but lit on fire, then most probably yes. But to intercept a charter flight from Israel and bomb it, not really... Valid point, but did Iran directly plot this? Like did Ahmadinejad just have all his best intelligence forces look up flights and planned trips to Bulgaria and say, plant a bomb on a bus full of tourists, just because..?
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:08 |
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Joey_Redd posted:Valid point, but did Iran directly plot this? Like did Ahmadinejad just have all his best intelligence forces look up flights and planned trips to Bulgaria and say, plant a bomb on a bus full of tourists, just because..? No one can say for sure at this early point, but yes almost definitely.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:13 |
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Gee, I find it completely unbelievable that anyone would ever attack Israelis anywhere in the world. It just staggers the imagination. People who believe this theory probably believe the official story behind 9/11, that the US landed astronauts on the moon, that there have been countless suicide bombings inside Israel proper, or that the Buenos Aires bombings 18 years ago were anything but a Mossad plot. Far more likely that there's a shadowy Zionist conspiracy behind this. William of Occam was a pussy.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:20 |
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God I wish Iran did have nukes so they would nuke Israel and Israel would Nuke them and we could get this god damned world over with. gently caress this gay earth. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:23 |
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So was this bus entirely filled with Israeli tourists or did it just happen to have like 3 Israelis on it?
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:26 |
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Macunaima posted:Gee, I find it completely unbelievable that anyone would ever attack Israelis anywhere in the world. It just staggers the imagination. People who believe this theory probably believe the official story behind 9/11, that the US landed astronauts on the moon, that there have been countless suicide bombings inside Israel proper, or that the Buenos Aires bombings 18 years ago were anything but a Mossad plot. I'm sorry that I don't believe every single thing Israel says, and that I find it hard to believe that Iran would DIRECTLY be involved in such a plot. I'm not disbarring that they could have been privy to the attack before it happened, but to say that they plot and plan every bombing on a country who has pissed off MOST of the muslim world is a bit of a stretch for me to believe.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:26 |
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It's sad innocent people were killed and injured.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:30 |
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Narciss posted:No one can say for sure at this early point, but yes almost definitely. "No one knows, but I'm 99% sure with no information that it was Iran." Congrats on contradicting the point of the first clause of your sentence with the second clause.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:31 |
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Wasn't the speculation that Israel was going to bomb those reactors this summer anyway? It doesn't seem like Israel needed this to happen, since all year people have been saying Israel will probably go after the sites as soon as the weather clears up. So, based on that I'd say a Mossad black flag or whatever is far less likely than a regular terrorist attack, since it would only create a pretense Israel doesn't even need. Best to wait for an investigation.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:35 |
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ItheWelp87 posted:So was this bus entirely filled with Israeli tourists or did it just happen to have like 3 Israelis on it? Entirely filled with Israeli tourists.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:35 |
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Yudo posted:It's sad innocent people were killed and injured. Of course it is. I don't think anyone was challenging that.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:37 |
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A Pale Horse posted:Entirely filled with Israeli tourists. And so the cycle perpetuates, what a shame
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:38 |
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Frosted Flake posted:Wasn't the speculation that Israel was going to bomb those reactors this summer anyway? It doesn't seem like Israel needed this to happen, since all year people have been saying Israel will probably go after the sites as soon as the weather clears up. I've heard speculation that Israel is bombing Iran's nuclear assets "within 6 months" for about 6 years now.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:41 |
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Un-l337-Pork posted:Yea, Fox and all of the other US propaganda outlets are running with this story. I don't see how or why when the real story of the day is the Syrian rebel attack. Rumors of this being an Israeli black flag operation are already flying... An Israeli black flag operation? Goddamn people are stupid.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:46 |
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Frosted Flake posted:So, based on that I'd say a Mossad black flag or whatever is far less likely than a regular terrorist attack, since it would only create a pretense Israel doesn't even need. Well of course it's best to wait for an investigation, but Israel doesn't let little things like that stop them. And sure, it's more likely that it was indeed a genuine attack rather than some false flag, though I wouldn't rule out that it was perhaps allowed to happen. Israel needs US support to go against Iran. There's just no way they could go it alone with an increasingly pissed off Egypt on one side, a not terribly happy Turkey just on the other, a civil war to their north, and a thousand miles of unfriendly sky between them and their target. It's not going to happen without us. And though there is political will here to do just that, it's not going to happen without either a change in administration or some increase in attacks and proof or at least strong signs that Iran is the culprit. Israel wants it to be Iran. They need it to be Iran. So they're going to encourage that idea no matter what the truth may be.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:47 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 16:32 |
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Idiot Kicker posted:Of course it is. I don't think anyone was challenging that. No one has to challenge anything to acknowledge the sadness behind it. All it's going to do is make people even more divided.
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| # ? Jul 18, 2012 19:55 |
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