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Goredema posted:Here's another video illustrating counter steering versus "body weight"/"leaning" when it comes to initiating a turn. That explain how I was turning last saturday, and also why I couldn't really make the turns. I noticed that I do this on my bicycle too, I steer right to make a left turn at speed (15mph ish). I'll have to practice this more.
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Apr 2, 2015 10:08
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Passed! Thank for the advice folks. I did manage to play around a bit more with counter-steering while doing laps, should've seen my face when I figured out that you can adjust the lean angle more while leaning. Time to go try on some bikes!
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Apr 5, 2015 23:07
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Congrats on passing. Post up in the other threads when you buy your first ride.
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Apr 5, 2015 23:26
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Dr. Jackal posted:Passed! Thank for the advice folks. I did manage to play around a bit more with counter-steering while doing laps, should've seen my face when I figured out that you can adjust the lean angle more while leaning. Congratulations! The best advice I could give at this point is to be smooth with everything. Don't do anything sudden on a motorcycle: smoothyl lean into a turn, smoothly apply throttle, smoothly squeeze the brakes. It makes everything much more stable and predictable.
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Apr 6, 2015 06:00
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Goredema posted:Congratulations! The best advice I could give at this point is to be smooth with everything. Don't do anything sudden on a motorcycle: smoothyl lean into a turn, smoothly apply throttle, smoothly squeeze the brakes. It makes everything much more stable and predictable. Seconding this, and also if you commit to do a thing, commit. Don't second-guess yourself, or you will probably fall over, which is what happened to me going up my drive at 4mph. I committed to going up, then had a sudden, "I should stop and get the mail!" thought and thud. Down I went.
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Apr 6, 2015 18:06
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I still remember taking my safety/training course. We were doing the counter steering practice, basically a big oval with cones to slalom through on the long parts. I was making a conscious effort to counter steer, resulting in rather excessive movements. To the point the instructor told me to just calm down for a lap or I was going to crash. So I stopped trying for a lap, and just rode through naturally, getting a thumbs up and a "Much better!" from the instructor. I just shook my head and stopped trying. Seems I was already doing it, so trying to do it more, was just exaggerating it, and too much.
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Apr 8, 2015 23:56
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I'm signed up for my BRC on May 9th. I'm pretty excited as I really want my license. I told my wife she should stop by and take a picture of my 6'6" rear end on those tiny bikes. I already picked up a bike and have done a little bit of practice on with my brother, a KLR650. That thing is so tall, it's going to be quite a shock to be on something so tiny.
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Apr 9, 2015 23:30
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Simply pick one of the dual sports if they have them. Te place I instructed at had a number of Yamaha TTR250s to choose from. It still makes me smile that when i took the MSF for the first time I was deathly afraid of the knobbies, height, and power of the TW200. Now i wish they weren't so rare/semi-expensive so I could have one as a around town run about.
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Apr 10, 2015 03:31
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Finally took and passed the MSF BRC! I signed up for it like 2 years ago, but I was exhausted and didn't show up. I got 2 points on the practical, though.  
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May 4, 2015 14:52
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Hey whatever, as long as you did it. I've had multiple friends signed up and just throw their money at the class because they didn't show up for it
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May 4, 2015 17:23
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Completed today, no points on the rainy test, felt like I was waiting for ever for this. Pretty depressed though; my dad went with me to get his for his retirement (he's 60). First day out on the field wiped him out and he dropped the bike twice. It was the Harley weekend (local CC classes filled up the day of scheduling), so we had the Street 500s with bumper bars all over them - so no harm done, but he was really discouraged.  He's down about it too, I'm thinking of ways to get his confidence back into it. Also, those 500s are nice enough to pique my curiosity on a 750. Revvik fucked around with this message at 04:53 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 04:50
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Revvik posted:Completed today, no points on the rainy test, felt like I was waiting for ever for this. Pretty depressed though; my dad went with me to get his for his retirement (he's 60). First day out on the field wiped him out and he dropped the bike twice. It was the Harley weekend (local CC classes filled up the day of scheduling), so we had the Street 500s with bumper bars all over them - so no harm done, but he was really discouraged. Get him a bike that weighs less than 500 lbs. Try for ~300. It will be lighter. That way when he wrecks he won't throw out his back picking it up.
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May 11, 2015 13:10
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Took and completed the MSF BRC this past weekend. Was stuck riding a lovely Kymco Venox. Holy crap it sucked. Wanted to stall just sitting with the clutch pulled in and shifting to second gear usually required me to kick the shifter a few times. I blame the bike on my practical score of 10.
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May 11, 2015 13:29
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Safety Dance posted:Low displacement dual sports are easy mode for the MSF. Not to downplay your having passed, but they're really forgiving. No argument here. Just completed the MSF this weekend and got my license. I picked a dual sport because I am 6' 5" and it had the highest frame and I didn't know anything because I hadn't ridden at all up until that point. Went home and put the plate on the SV650 I bought during the winter and hopped on. Immediately stalled, started it back up, let the clutch out too fast and stalled again, started it back up and tried to do a u-turn and dropped the bike (I didn't drop the bike during the MSF course at all). I've been practicing counterweighting in parking lots since them and have dropped my bike two additional times which isn't particularly surprising since I went out of the box during the test. At least I didn't drop it and fail during the test and there is only cosmetic damage to my bike at the moment. Still, the box and the rapid stop were horrible for me (I locked up my rear wheel during the rapid stop). Nailed the turn though and did decent on the swerve so that's something.
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May 27, 2015 20:28
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xanif posted:No argument here. Just completed the MSF this weekend and got my license. I picked a dual sport because I am 6' 5" and it had the highest frame and I didn't know anything because I hadn't ridden at all up until that point. Went home and put the plate on the SV650 I bought during the winter and hopped on. Immediately stalled, started it back up, let the clutch out too fast and stalled again, started it back up and tried to do a u-turn and dropped the bike (I didn't drop the bike during the MSF course at all). When I took the MSF the first time, I failed. The box and the cone weave killed me. I never dropped the bike, though. Here's the key: Going slow and learning slow is awesome, but the problem when you're new is that the balance is wonky as hell if you're not accustomed to it. Don't try to ride it yet. Just do those little boring starter things they did in the MSF. Do the clutch/friction point practice on a flat place, if you have one. Just duck walk it for a bit until it feels reasonably comfortable. Then work on going in a straight line and big, wide corners. Don't try to do The Box right off the bat. I tried, and I dropped my bike twice. Don't be like me! Pretend you're doing the MSF as much as possible. They get you comfortable with the weight and balance of the bike well before you ever put both feet on the pegs. Do that for your SV and you'll have a much easier time of it. You're fresh out of the MSF, too, so that's totally in your favor. Go slow, don't try to do stuff that was hard on a smaller bike. Just get comfortable doing slow, wide corners and turns, and get up to 15-20 mph and practice your swerves, gently. That'll help you some with the counterbalancing you need to not drop it when you do start working on The Box.
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May 28, 2015 00:20
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Lynza posted:When I took the MSF the first time, I failed. The box and the cone weave killed me. I never dropped the bike, though. Yea I've gone back and I'm practicing the slow stuff in parking lots. Once I adjusted to the friction zone on my bike (and the significantly more power/weight characteristics) I haven't had any problems on the road. My strongest areas on the test were the 135 degree turn and the swerve though the swerve could definitely use work. PA doesn't test on the weave though it teaches it. Just tests on the box, quick stop, 135 turn, and swerve. I've driven around on back roads for a couple hours a day the last few days to get over the whole "There's no metal cage around me!" fear and I love riding on the roads. I just need to keep working on counterweighting at low speeds which I will start trying again once I get a better feel. Getting there but still a long way to go. I'm loving riding so far and I have a friend with years of experience under his belt that is helping me in my weak areas now that I have passed the basic MSF training and got my license. He went riding with me on some empty residential streets (<25 mph) and some parking lot exercises and gave tips until I learned the very basic feel of the SV. He noted I need to work on my emergency stop and counterweighting which isn't all that shocking since those are the areas I got points on during the test. But, yea, I'm going to lay off the box exercises for a bit until I get a better feel for it all. I couldn't ask for a better location to learn, though. Within 15 minutes of my apartment I have a long and straight 4 lane highway (45 mph speed limit), a bunch of S curves in sequence, a section of interstate with the most forgiving on ramp and only a mile to the next exit (just to get a quick feel for interstate riding), and tons of office complexes with massive parking lots. Just got back from inspecting the damage from dropping it last night. Broke the very end off the front brake lever but it's only cosmetic damage as it still works fine. Suddenly I understand why the bikes at the MSF course have metal bars around the clutch and brake handles. How long were you riding for before you tried any real interstate riding? I'm hoping to commute to work in the near future but it's all I-476/95.
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May 28, 2015 01:45
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I think it took me 3 days of surface road riding before I started doing freeway commutes. Took my wife like a month though.
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May 28, 2015 02:04
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xanif posted:some bullshit It sounds like you're just trying to do the MSF drills on your SV. Stop doing that. Don't waste anymore time doing the MSF drills. You're trying to replicate drills that were designed with 250cc motorcycles in mind when instead you should be familiarizing yourself with what is an intermediate level bike's characteristics. Go to a parking lot and figure out how to do the following on your bike: 1) Turn at speed (countersteering) 2) Brake reasonably quickly 3) Launch without stalling (learn that friction point and gas that bitch) Once you can do these without loving them up go ride around streets and take it easy. Keep riding around until you feel comfortable. If you keep dropping the bike maybe you shouldn't ride.
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May 28, 2015 02:28
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Razzled posted:If you keep dropping the bike maybe you shouldn't ride. The student has become the master
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May 28, 2015 06:01
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Razzled posted:It sounds like you're just trying to do the MSF drills on your SV. Stop doing that. Don't waste anymore time doing the MSF drills. You're trying to replicate drills that were designed with 250cc motorcycles in mind when instead you should be familiarizing yourself with what is an intermediate level bike's characteristics. Go to a parking lot and figure out how to do the following on your bike: 1) Turn at speed (countersteering) 2) Brake reasonably quickly 3) Launch without stalling (learn that friction point and gas that bitch) The listed drills are all included in motorcycle education classes. Takeaway point should be "practice the fundamentals."
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May 28, 2015 06:11
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Razzled posted:It sounds like you're just trying to do the MSF drills on your SV. Stop doing that. Don't waste anymore time doing the MSF drills. You're trying to replicate drills that were designed with 250cc motorcycles in mind when instead you should be familiarizing yourself with what is an intermediate level bike's characteristics. Go to a parking lot and figure out how to do the following on your bike: 1) Turn at speed (countersteering) 2) Brake reasonably quickly 3) Launch without stalling (learn that friction point and gas that bitch) It could also be that the SV is notorious for the throttle being utter poo poo in low gears. It's grabby as hell, and causes no end of heartache when it comes to parking lot manuevers, slow-speed traffic, and other "not bombing down the highway" riding situations. Luckily, the problem is relatively easy to fix, and makes the bike much more forgiving at low speeds: Throttle Position Sensor adjustment guide Automatic Timing Retard Eliminator (aTRE) ...Or it could be that he's just not cool enough to feel the eagle of freedom that fills the heart of all true bikers. I'm sure it's probably that. 
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May 28, 2015 06:29
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I rode around my road for about 3 days before I got on the highway. It was puckertastic, but after about an hour of riding on a rural highway at about 50mph, I started feeling comfortable and took it on a "real" highway after that. Since then, I have had a burning need for speed.
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May 28, 2015 08:04
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Razzled posted:It sounds like you're just trying to do the MSF drills on your SV. Stop doing that. Don't waste anymore time doing the MSF drills. You're trying to replicate drills that were designed with 250cc motorcycles in mind when instead you should be familiarizing yourself with what is an intermediate level bike's characteristics. Go to a parking lot and figure out how to do the following on your bike: 1) Turn at speed (countersteering) 2) Brake reasonably quickly 3) Launch without stalling (learn that friction point and gas that bitch) Not sure if you were joking or not, but the MSF course is designed to be taught on every bike. The second level of class to the BRC is the BRCII, it's taking the BRC all over again at an accelerated pace on your own bike. The class wasn't designed around 250cc bikes, it's just less intimidating to do so.
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May 28, 2015 09:42
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When I bought my first bike I picked it up in a city 110km away and rode it home on the freeway the same day.
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May 28, 2015 10:16
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Razzled posted:It sounds like you're just trying to do the MSF drills on your SV. Stop doing that. Don't waste anymore time doing the MSF drills. You're trying to replicate drills that were designed with 250cc motorcycles in mind when instead you should be familiarizing yourself with what is an intermediate level bike's characteristics. Go to a parking lot and figure out how to do the following on your bike: 1) Turn at speed (countersteering) 2) Brake reasonably quickly 3) Launch without stalling (learn that friction point and gas that bitch) I like how you said to not do msf drills and then suggest alternatives that are msf drills. Also countersteering isn't a technique but a definition of a thing that happens when steering a two wheeled vehicle. Razzled posted:If you keep dropping the bike maybe you shouldn't ride. If you keep dropping your bike, maybe you should get comfortable with the basics first. In most cases, a drop happens when you are trying and falling to perform outside your skill set. This is especially true for bike maneuvers, since there are no environmental factors to account for.
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May 28, 2015 10:28
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If you keep dropping your bike you should get a set of frame sliders and lever protectors and then practice more. Remember the bike wants to stay upright when it's moving, so if you're falling over give it a bit more gas and it will straighten itself out. Also look where you want to go. Looking at the ground will put you on the ground. Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 11:07 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 11:05
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Collateral Damage posted:When I bought my first bike I picked it up in a city 110km away and rode it home on the freeway the same day. There is nothing complicated about freeways. Riding on the freeway is pretty much the safest and easiest thing to do on a bike. There are no skills to learn before taking your bike to the highway that aren't already taught in MSF. The barrier is purely mental; it's the fear of suddenly needing to do 70mph just to keep up with traffic when you have never gone over 40 before. Once you realize that your bike isn't actively trying to kill you highways become mundane. You're not going to hear too many stories of newbies wiping out on the highway when learning to ride. Sure it happens to squids zooming through traffic, unfortunate lane splitters who get lane changed into and the idiots who try to put their knee down on every oil and antifreeze soaked entry and exit ramp...but not to new riders trying to get from A to B with the flow of traffic. Dropping bikes during slow speed maneuvers is part of the learning process. Mastering the MSF basics is key to gaining the confidence in your bike, the figure 8 is the only exercise where your bike choice matters and having done it on a Triumph Sprint 1050, I'm pretty sure you can do it on an SV650 just fine. No, learning to do the figure 8 won't teach you to handle high speed turns well, but it will teach you to not be glued to the seat and to trust the traction on your bike, leaning it way lower than you thought possible and fine throttle control. Soo yeah practice the figure 8, practice quick starts and quick stops - if your rear is staying on the ground in an SV650 you aren't stopping hard enough and if you don't feel your front lift you aren't starting quick enough - practice this gradually obviously - or just go ham. Who cares if you drop it. It's a cheap bike and you're not going to truly wreck it dropping it in a parking lot.
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May 28, 2015 14:44
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It took me a couple of weeks of low speed stuff to feel comfortable enough to ride on the highway. After 1 minute on the highway it wasn't scary at all. It's actually a lot easier than stop and go riding.
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May 28, 2015 15:54
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This, exactly. Highway riding is actually pretty boring. Yeah, going 60-70 MPH is kinda neat, but just going straight forever while your head gets beat up with wind buffeting gets old. I was scared shitless to do it for the first time; it goes away quickly.
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May 28, 2015 18:00
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Nothing difficult about it after getting over the initial fear (gripping the controls too tight, mostly), but I like freeway riding about as much as freeway driving, which is to say not in the least. I will gladly take an extra %25-%50 more time and take back roads. You see interesting things and scenery, opposed to the mind-numbing monotonous drone of tires and wind pushing your helmet back. No thanks.
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May 28, 2015 19:00
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Gorson posted:Nothing difficult about it after getting over the initial fear (gripping the controls too tight, mostly), but I like freeway riding about as much as freeway driving, which is to say not in the least. I will gladly take an extra %25-%50 more time and take back roads. You see interesting things and scenery, opposed to the mind-numbing monotonous drone of tires and wind pushing your helmet back. No thanks. This, forever. I was taking the highway home at night on my way home from work, and then I realized I could take the fun route, which I can't take with my stupid electric car. Holy hell, what a difference that makes. It takes me about the same amount of time, but I'm driving through a gorgeous forested area, it smells amazing (unless I get behind yet another rear end in a top hat landscaping truck running diesel), and it's basically a zero-stress 100% fun twisty ride. Road less traveled, indeed.
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May 28, 2015 20:43
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I literally wheelied out of the MSF and immediately did triple digits on the ride home over a major freeway while 6 police cars exploded behind me.
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May 29, 2015 13:45
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I hope you were wearing your Icon protective vest
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May 29, 2015 14:45
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T-Shirt and Sandals.... what are you some kind of nerd?
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May 29, 2015 14:48
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It's okay! They were motorcycle sandals.
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May 30, 2015 02:57
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