|
If only we had even stricter gun laws and even more opinions about gun control, Then surely this would never have happened.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:00 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2013 22:01 |
|
|
Seymour Butts posted:If a guy showed up at my door and told me he was there to sell steaks and seafood I would find it extremely odd. If he wasn't wearing a stereotypical fishing hat with small, bright colored "flys" attached. Toting a huge white styrofoam cooler brimming with ice and fresh seafood and trying to sell his bounty with the largest most friendly and honest smile I would probably be alarmed. You are seriously making an issue about what he was selling? Hey here is a clue it doesn't matter. The issue at hand is the rear end in a top hat who executed this salesman.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:04 |
|
"
|
They need to start selling guns door to door. Give the seller some protection and give Americans the one commodity they seem to cry rivers about. gently caress the banks, corrupt government, the military complex, food prices, an obliterated environment, just give them a decent supply of guns and they'll keep on singing the anthem.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:05 |
|
|
Wicker Man posted:Ah that's pretty cool. For this guy's area, he could have just said "You jez' keep on walkin', BOY." That's something else that is disturbing about this case. Unless I read it wrong or Florida is vastly different than everywhere else, the guy wasn't even actually tresspassing. You don't need permission to go and ring someone's doorbell. I don't think a 'No Salesman' type sign would have made it tresspassing either, just harassment. I don't know the facts of the case but it seems pretty obvious that the shooter just wanted to kill someone and thought this was an opportunity to do so. I wonder if he really did have a CCW and what kind of class he had that didn't touch on when it is appropriate to shoot and what to do if/when the cops show up.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:05 |
|
|
Powercrazy posted:If only we had even stricter gun laws and even more opinions about gun control, Then surely this would never have happened. There is to be no discussion of things. Under no circumstances should you compare experiences and views on a subject. Communication regarding anything that is not utterly superfluous to your life must be avoided. Do not opine. Do not argue. Do not think. This message brought to you by the NRA.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:07 |
|
|
This poo poo is why gun registration is sounding like a great idea. Anyone who owns a dozen handguns and assault rifles really needs to be a on a list somewhere.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:09 |
|
|
Seymour Butts posted:"Hey, do you want to buy seafood and steaks?" Do they also call you the neighborhood whacko?
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:09 |
|
|
 So what's FBUser 24 saying at the bottom of the page - what kind of authority does a "do not tresspass or you will get shot" sign hold? Does it actually say tresspassers will get shot, is that legal? And if it is, seriously, what the gently caress? Does anybody just get to hang that in their front yard and then start sniping postmen and pizza delivery boys? And if the guy had no idea what the actual law is, what gave him the right to put that up? (Assuming it did say <<you'll get shot>>. Then again, the guy above might've just been typing out of his rear end. But I'm still curios.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:11 |
|
|
Agrajag posted:You are seriously making an issue about what he was selling? Hey here is a clue it doesn't matter. The issue at hand is the rear end in a top hat who executed this salesman. I think it does matter! That's why in my scenario I said I would be incredibly skeptical. Of course I wouldn' have that same feeling if it were a girlscout and her parent at my door selling cookies. I mean, was the guy wearing a uniform? I'm unaware of any company that has employees selling food door to door. I mean, even Jehovas Witnesses have a "uniform." Now, I assure you I think the shooter is a sick gently caress as much as you do, but still what the gently caress!!
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:11 |
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:There is to be no discussion of things. Under no circumstances should you compare experiences and views on a subject. Communication regarding anything that is not utterly superfluous to your life must be avoided. Do not opine. Do not argue. Do not think. Any incident that involves guns must occur because our gun laws aren't strict enough. People don't kill people, guns do.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:11 |
|
|
Pez posted:I'm not at all saying the shooter was right for shooting the salesman, but if there were "no trespassing" signs posted the salesman should have paid attention to them and not gone to the door. It's been my experience that people who post signs like that are itching for a reason to hurt someone who comes on their property, and he'd be alive if he had just skipped that house. If guns were illegal in FL, the crazy homeowner would have just come out with a bat or a knife and done the same thing. No. You don't get to shift blame to the victim.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:12 |
|
|
Seymour Butts posted:I'm unaware of any company that has employees selling food door to door. I mean, even Jehovas Witnesses have a "uniform." http://www.schwans.com/ They wear uniforms and have company trucks, but still. There you go. Massive door-to-door food distributor. They're so big they have contracts with Costco and poo poo.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:13 |
|
|
Seymour Butts posted:I think it does matter! That's why in my scenario I said I would be incredibly skeptical. Of course I wouldn' have that same feeling if it were a girlscout and her parent at my door selling cookies. I mean, was the guy wearing a uniform? I'm unaware of any company that has employees selling food door to door. I mean, even Jehovas Witnesses have a "uniform." Now, I assure you I think the shooter is a sick gently caress as much as you do, but still what the gently caress!! I guess it's just based on living in specific neighborhoods, because we get Mormons, Kirby's Vacuums, Steaks, Watermelons, magazines, and all kinds of salesmen and people in our neighborhood.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:13 |
|
|
Well, if something like this happens to a few more salesmen and a couple of Jehova's Witnesses maybe they would finally leave everyone alone. That would be good. Yes.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:15 |
|
|
Powercrazy posted:Any incident that involves guns must occur because our gun laws aren't strict enough. People don't kill people, guns do. And yet curiously it seems that in countries with more restrictive access to guns, homicide numbers sharply decrease. I am certain, however, that America is Exceptional, and much like universal health care and Not Bombing Third World Countries Into The Stone Age, It Couldn't Work Here.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:15 |
|
|
MrQwerty posted:http://www.schwans.com/ I do buy food from these guys every so often and its not that bad.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:15 |
|
|
Seymour Butts posted:If a guy showed up at my door and told me he was there to sell steaks and seafood I would find it extremely odd. If he wasn't wearing a stereotypical fishing hat with small, bright colored "flys" attached. Toting a huge white styrofoam cooler brimming with ice and fresh seafood and trying to sell his bounty with the largest most friendly and honest smile I would probably be alarmed. This guy makes me feel uncomfortable. BETTER SHOOT HIM TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE 
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:18 |
|
|
And I thought this was all make believe when I was a kid  poo poo seemed funny at the time! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCK2_vdjJ0U
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:18 |
|
|
Everyone knows that eating "so many shrimp I got iodine poisoning" is the first step to drinking sizzurp. Was this seafood salesman high on purple drank?Three Six Mafia posted:We eat so many shrimp, I got iodine poisoning
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:20 |
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:There is to be no discussion of things. Under no circumstances should you compare experiences and views on a subject. Communication regarding anything that is not utterly superfluous to your life must be avoided. Do not opine. Do not argue. Do not think. I believe it's the mods and admins that made that rule about "debates" regarding gun control in GBS rather than the NRA because it's the same song over and over. There may be some intelligent discussion from both sides at some point but by the time the threads are gassed they've become 50 pages of nothing but I DON'T OWN A GUN SO ANYONE WHO OWNS A GUN IS A RACIST SOCIOPATH versus ANYONE DISCUSSING ANY SORT OF GUN CONTROL IS A NAZI. It never goes anywhere and it's such a hot-button issue most people seem to be incapable of objective debate, everyone comes in with a preconceived notion and they're here not to discuss the merit of any argument so much as they are to just sling poo poo everywhere until the thread is mercy-killed. They just had to gas a loving thread in D&D because it did that.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:20 |
|
|
sleepyinsomniac posted:This reminds me...
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:21 |
|
|
Kavros posted:But plenty have a screening method that can effectively, in many cases, prevent the acquisition of firearms by people with the kind of history that this man likely had. Sorry if this has already been responded to, but it is a major assumption that this guy would have any mental health issues on his record. America is terrible in regards to getting it's citizens any of the health care they need, and mental health is pretty much at the bottom of that list. It seems that most people agree that the ones committing awful crimes with guns are straight up nuts, so why don't we focus on better programs to identify and help people with mental illness. Then the screening programs already in place would actually be more effective, and if they were successfully treated we'd have fewer people freaking out when we actually want to enact stricter gun control laws.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:22 |
|
|
Ghetto Prince posted:This poo poo is why gun registration is sounding like a great idea. Anyone who owns a dozen handguns and assault rifles really needs to be a on a list somewhere. Your name goes on a list with the Federal gov't when you buy you're firearm. So this nut is already on a list. Also, while it may shock you, owning a dozen guns really isn't that many guns. Particularly if you're a collector.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:22 |
|
|
I think the Jehova's Witnesses would need more of their members murdered before they stop visiting than salesmen. They are pretty dedicated.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:23 |
|
|
Nunya posted:If you are talking about the death of Bo Morrison, no charges were filed against the homeowner, probably because Morrison considered inside the dwelling (enclosed front porch) when he was killed. That's not what they are talking about. They are talking about Raul Rodriguez, a former firefighter who was known for brandishing his gun in the neighborhood, who videotaped himself inciting a violent confrontation while repeating "OMG IM SO SCARED IM AFRAID FOR MY LIFE" while brandishing a gun and shooting a teacher to death for having a loving party. He thought he'd get stand your ground, instead he got "you're a shithead who murdered someone."
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:24 |
|
|
Mr Underhill posted:
"Tresspasser will be shot" not only holds no legal authority, but it is a terrible idea legally to advertise that you will go loud and kill people right away. You may have a legal protection to do so, but it is unwise at best to state in writing that you will skip the whole 'asses threat and respond appropriately' step. Most signs like that are only meant as novelties for like a bar or whatever. I don't know of anyone outside military/law enforcement that uses those signs, means them, and legally gets away with it.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:24 |
|
|
MrQwerty posted:That's not what they are talking about. They are talking about Raul Rodriguez, a former firefighter who was known for brandishing his gun in the neighborhood, who videotaped himself inciting a violent confrontation while repeating "OMG IM SO SCARED IM AFRAID FOR MY LIFE" while brandishing a gun and shooting a teacher to death for having a loving party. He thought he'd get stand your ground, instead he got "you're a shithead who murdered someone." That's not what the poster I quoted was talking about. I mentioned the guy you are referring to earlier in the thread when discussing how long it would take to convict the nutjob who killed a salesman.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:25 |
|
|
Powercrazy posted:Any incident that involves guns must occur because our gun laws aren't strict enough. People don't kill people, guns do. You are absolutely correct. If that man didn't have a gun surely he would have beaten the man to death with his bare hands. Am I the only one that needs to keep taking breaks from this thread to look at pictures of puppies?
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:27 |
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:And yet curiously it seems that in countries with more restrictive access to guns, homicide numbers sharply decrease. Could you perhaps cite all these nations with sharp post-ban decreases in homicide? The two most common examples given are the UK and Australia but they enacted sweeping bans as a knee-jerk response to singular incidents, not because of widespread crime. Before they both enacted new restrictions they had very low homicide rates despite moderate gun control laws. To look at the low rates they have now and say "oh yeah, that's totes due to gun control" despite the trend predating the newer laws is ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst. The UK instituted their new tough gun laws January 1997 and actually saw a small but noticeable upswing in homicides that peaked in 2004 at 2.1 homicides/100,000, and only recently- more than a decade later- has it dropped close to the 1.17/100,000 mark it was at before the ban (latest data I can find from the Home Office puts it at 1.23/100,000.) No average decrease compared to right before the ban, rather a very small uptick. Australia began enacting new laws in 1996, ending their gun amnesty and buyback in August 1998 and fully implementing their new legislation after that point. According to the Australian Institute of Criminology the homicide rate in 1996 was ~1.8/100,000 and saw a peak of 2.0 in 1999-2000. The latest data they provide is from 2008 and shows a homicide rate of 1.3/100,000. There was a marginal overall decrease with no strong link connecting that to gun control when compared to the similar decrease in non-firearm related violent crime. We've previously discussed how the US doesn't stack up to most other industrialized nations in most socioeconomic aspects, simply saying "the only possible difference is gun laws" is terribly inaccurate and disingenuous. Most of the rest of the world has welfare systems to discourage career crime and higher social mobility thanks to heavily subsidized education systems. They have universal health care to provide widespread treatment of mental illness along with less societal stigmatization that discourages seeking said treatment. They aren't dealing with the colossal failure of the War on Drugs and the violence bred by black market it creates. They have prison systems that rehabilitate and educate prisoners rather than just warehouse people in terrible conditions until they're released, possibly more violent than before. Shall I go on?
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:27 |
|
|
Seymour Butts posted:I think it does matter! That's why in my scenario I said I would be incredibly skeptical. Of course I wouldn' have that same feeling if it were a girlscout and her parent at my door selling cookies. I mean, was the guy wearing a uniform? I'm unaware of any company that has employees selling food door to door. I mean, even Jehovas Witnesses have a "uniform." Now, I assure you I think the shooter is a sick gently caress as much as you do, but still what the gently caress!! I don't know if Florida is just a state full of anti-social dudes like yourself, but here in Alabama we have a ton of businesses and charity-raising events that sell food door to door. Have you never been involved with an organization that tried to raise money by selling Boston Butts door to door?
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:29 |
|
|
Pohl posted:No. You don't get to shift blame to the victim. I said at the start of my post that I don't excuse what the shooter did. But if someone goes to the trouble of posting multiple signs that say "don't come here" it's stupid to ignore them and go there anyway, it's pretty obvious they don't want your company.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:30 |
|
|
Seymour Butts posted:
I live in Tampa and these fuckers that sell seafood and steak out of a van are everywhere. I've seen them driving through my neighborhood going door to door as well. What happened to the good old fashioned guys selling stereo speakers out of a van in the strip mall parking lot. 
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:31 |
|
|
Why can't people just accept the fact that the majority of these gun nuts are totally amassing these stockpiles of weaponry out of a mixture of paranoia and power lust? For certain people, having a gun makes them feel more powerful and that feeling is intoxicating, and unfortunately, just like the intoxicating effects of alcohol, it makes some people more prone to make foolish decisions without thought of the consequences. I'm in favor of gun ownership (I own two handguns), but this should not be like the Old West where everyone walks around with a sidearm on their hip. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. It's just that when you are carrying a gun, it's a lot easier to kill someone than when you are unarmed. For some, when they carry a gun everything looks like a target.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:32 |
|
|
Pohl posted:It was actually a huge loving success. It also led to a huge spike in crime created to work around it.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:32 |
|
|
Professor Awesome posted:simply saying "the only possible difference is gun laws" is terribly inaccurate and disingenuous. You sure told Non-existent person that said that.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:33 |
|
|
rodbeard posted:Am I the only one that needs to keep taking breaks from this thread to look at pictures of puppies? You are not alone. I prefer Bunnies.
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:35 |
|
|
VendaGoat posted:You are not alone. No honest man needs more than one dog and one cat
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:37 |
|
|
Seymour Butts posted:I think it does matter! That's why in my scenario I said I would be incredibly skeptical. Of course I wouldn' have that same feeling if it were a girlscout and her parent at my door selling cookies. I mean, was the guy wearing a uniform? I'm unaware of any company that has employees selling food door to door. I mean, even Jehovas Witnesses have a "uniform." Now, I assure you I think the shooter is a sick gently caress as much as you do, but still what the gently caress!!
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:38 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2013 22:01 |
|
|
rodbeard posted:You sure told Non-existent person that said that. quote:And yet curiously it seems that in countries with more restrictive access to guns, homicide numbers sharply decrease. What else is one supposed to make of that, exactly?
|
| # ? Jul 27, 2012 18:39 |
|
