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NOT NOW GRANDPA posted:But these are both fantastic movies. Can't agree at all. They're the kinds of films where even many of the people who enjoy them will say that parts, large parts even, didn't work at all. Or that they work in spite of their overreaching, not because of it. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at Aug 4, 2012 around 11:06 |
| # ? Aug 4, 2012 11:02 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 05:44 |
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Oh god, it's happening again. I'm getting excited about an upcoming film. This time, it's Cloud Atlas. I'm not sure what the last film I anticipated in this fashion was, but this is certain: I am as nervous about this film as I am about the 2012 election. Mainly because the source material is so good and promising, and because of the Wachowski's awful post-Matrix 1 track record, a record which I think is the reason why so many people are hesitant to be excited about this film.
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| # ? Aug 5, 2012 04:59 |
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Pedro De Heredia posted:Can't agree at all. They're the kinds of films where even many of the people who enjoy them will say that parts, large parts even, didn't work at all. Or that they work in spite of their overreaching, not because of it. I don't know, it sounds like you're using anecdotal evidence to support an idea of objective "badness." I loved "The Fountain" and last I checked, I did none of what you described.
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| # ? Aug 5, 2012 05:41 |
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This movie does look kinda like The Fountain in that it'll have some nifty sci-fi stuff but be WAAAAYYYY too emotionally overwrought. Let's just see if the Wachowski/Twyker team-up can top Aronofsky for close-up shots of people crying.
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| # ? Aug 5, 2012 16:44 |
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Fayez Butts posted:Ohhhhhhhhh boy This is especially annoying because given the omnipresent plastic surgery in the story, there's no particular reason that character couldn't look white
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| # ? Aug 5, 2012 21:21 |
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Sargeant Biffalot posted:This is especially annoying because given the omnipresent plastic surgery in the story, there's no particular reason that character couldn't look white Instead of Vulcan? He is a Vulcan there, right? Then again, Hugo Weaving as a female nurse justifies this entire movie 
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 01:02 |
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I'm sad the Iraq War homosexual spy-thriller the Wachowskis wrote got rejected for funding. I want to live in a world where we can safely film and release a movie like that. Also for a director duo that gets a lot of poo poo for their movies, must we forget the absolute stranglehold the Wachowski Siblings had on action pop culture for a better part of a decade? I would kill grown men for that kind of memetic power.
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 11:36 |
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Armani posted:I'm sad the Iraq War homosexual spy-thriller the Wachowskis wrote got rejected for funding. I want to live in a world where we can safely film and release a movie like that. I have no idea what happened to that movie but a guy I knew from school was tentatively cast as the third lead and that would have been nuts.
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 13:05 |
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I really hope they release more stuff about that film in the future. The stuff with Jesse Ventura dressed as an alien and talking about Obama seemed cool as gently caress.
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 13:19 |
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Sargeant Biffalot posted:This is especially annoying because given the omnipresent plastic surgery in the story, there's no particular reason that character couldn't look white Yeah, I don't get why everyone has to look asian in an Orison for Sonmi-451. It's the far future and I'm plenty sure they could've gotten away with handwaving since Nea So Copros is all that's left of major civilization. I would expect there to be some sort of mass miscegenation going on. I'm not saying it's purposely racist or anything but Hugo Weaving as a Korean guy is dangerously close to some Charlie Chan/Dr. No stuff.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 07:52 |
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I don't think it would be acceptable at all if it weren't at least being done in the service of a valid thematic conceit. The contrast between the way we read yellowface and drag could be interesting as well. None of that lets it off the hook per se. It could be complicated, thoughtful, and still ultimately also be racist.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 13:09 |
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So what's the source on that Hugo Weaving picture? To me it looks like four different Photoshop jobs on the same photo, nothing to indicate that it's official, especially as there's no shots of Hugo Weaving as any of those characters in the trailer. Not that I wouldn't be laughing my rear end off at the audacity of having him play those roles in the film, I'm just a little skeptical about the origin of that picture.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 13:26 |
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Monkeyman1138 posted:So what's the source on that Hugo Weaving picture? To me it looks like four different Photoshop jobs on the same photo, nothing to indicate that it's official, especially as there's no shots of Hugo Weaving as any of those characters in the trailer. Haven't seen the trailer, but I've definitely seen production stills of him playing guys #1 and #4.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 13:29 |
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Hodgepodge posted:I don't think it would be acceptable at all if it weren't at least being done in the service of a valid thematic conceit. The thematic conceit deals with the "why can't you just cast an asian actor" problem but if people object to it because of the history of yellowface being used in racist roles then that won't help.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 20:43 |
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Hodgepodge posted:None of that lets it off the hook per se. It could be complicated, thoughtful, and still ultimately also be racist. I don't think the issue is whether the performance is nuanced or not but whether the casting of a white person as Asian significantly diminish Asian culture. I think Hugo's role can be overlooked since he's not a major character and (I assume) will be surrounded by Asian actors and it plays into the reincarnation theme. What's more troublesome is the role of Jim Sturgess playing Hae-Joo Im, who is a major character. I don't expect it to be Norbit levels of caricature, but that they couldn't cast a Korean actor in that role is unfortunate. Kodo fucked around with this message at Aug 8, 2012 around 02:43 |
| # ? Aug 8, 2012 02:30 |
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I would normally be right there with you guys, but the whole point was to have the actors change race, gender, etc. throughout the film. There is a literal artistic point being made and this is hardly white-washing. Whether it's a good idea or not is up for debate, but we won't really know that until the final product is out. It may well be that it comes across as racist as someone singing for their Mamee while wearing a face full of shoe polish, but I just don't see it at this point. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now based on the ideas behind the decision. Only time will tell if that's wise or not, but we at least know it's on purpose and that it fits into the movie thematically.
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| # ? Aug 8, 2012 03:07 |
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The thing that makes Jim Sturgess's role a real knife in the gut is that Sturgess was in 21, the first of three major rapid fire whitewashes which include Dragonball Evolution and The Last Airbender. I don't think any artistic point being made justifies this. The need for Asian representation on screen (in particular male roles) is simply too dire. What made The Last Airbender so dangerous was that it could have set a major precedent in the revival of whites brazenly playing asians again if it wasn't so awful. Part of the problem that PoCs have in getting postive representation in the media is the need to "justify" their presence in some way. If you lose the justification "the character is literally Asian"... you're in some really deep doodoo.
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 06:13 |
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I just wanted to say that the trailer is magnificent and seems really epic and ambitious and emotional and intense, and as a sucker for these kind of high-concept operatic epics, I'm very excited to see this. Even if the movie itself disappoints in some ways, I still feel like the whole thing will be visually fantastic.
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 07:23 |
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FatCatAttack posted:I don't think any artistic point being made justifies this. We're just going to have to disagree here. I had similar thoughts about Guy Pearce in old man make-up in Prometheus, but that was actually quite excellent because of the way it was used and the story being told. It isn't 100% the same thing of course, but this is the most recent example where I found this kind of swapping acceptable (and honestly, one of very few examples period). This is not even in the same league as Last Airbender for a whole variety of reasons. I'm not going to defend white-washing because I genuinely hate it and am often the type of person who brings it up in the first place, but this is a special case. You have actors and actresses swapping races, ages, genders and who knows what else for extremely important thematic reasons. This isn't a matter of deciding John Wayne is the best choice to play Genghis Khan. In fact, the very message that's intended is "We are all the same." They may fail completely and have some really uncomfortable and unintentional racism in this, but I'll reserve final judgement until I see it. It's certainly something to be concerned about and one can only hope that they realized this during the filming of the movie and were sensitive with how they handled it.
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 12:59 |
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I like the reasoning the brothers er silblings, wanted to put this movie together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MrotEnTUt0
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 13:46 |
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Geekboy posted:We're just going to have to disagree here. I had similar thoughts about Guy Pearce in old man make-up in Prometheus, but that was actually quite excellent because of the way it was used and the story being told. It isn't 100% the same thing of course, but this is the most recent example where I found this kind of swapping acceptable (and honestly, one of very few examples period). So it's a bunch of white people making a film with white actors in yellowface to prove a point of how we're "all human?" That's pretty drat disturbing, I have to say. Not surprising, but disturbing none the less.
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 14:02 |
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Doona Bae and Zhou Xun supposedly appear as caucasians in some of the segments.
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 14:41 |
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Halle Barry also swaps race and gender from what I've seen.
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 14:43 |
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http://www.firstshowing.net/2012/ex...cast-over-time/ You can see most of the swaps and things in here.
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 14:53 |
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Is Tom Hanks playing "Drexl Spivey meets Shaft" with Keith David in some bizarre blacksploitation movie? 
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 15:15 |
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Skeezy posted:http://www.firstshowing.net/2012/ex...cast-over-time/ Holy poo poo @ Hugh Grant. I'm now excited for Cloud Atlas solely to see him play what looks to be the bad guy from Apocalypto as a quirky charming Englishman and do it brilliantly.
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 16:53 |
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They're really laying all the cards on the table here. I can only see this being great or embarrassingly horrible.
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| # ? Aug 9, 2012 22:30 |
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I am now 1000% hyped for Cloud Atlas.
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| # ? Aug 10, 2012 18:37 |
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I adored the book, so I'm willing to give the movie a chance even if they wind up destroying it. But I'm actually kind of optimistic at what I've seen so far.
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| # ? Aug 10, 2012 19:21 |
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Young Freud posted:Is Tom Hanks playing "Drexl Spivey meets Shaft" with Keith David in some bizarre blacksploitation movie? YES! As soon as I saw that pic I knew I have to see this movie. I too am now 1000% hyped for Cloud Atlas.
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| # ? Aug 11, 2012 04:31 |
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Holy loving hell. That picture of Hugh Grant is something else.
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| # ? Aug 11, 2012 14:33 |
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There is a shot of him in the trailer in that getup, and I was like "HOLY poo poo, HUGH GRANT LOOKS LIKE A TOTAL BADASS."
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| # ? Aug 11, 2012 14:44 |
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Well the trailer pushed me into reading the book, and having just finished it 10 minutes ago, I have to say I'm extremely excited to see this when it comes out, mess or not. The book was fantastic and ambitious as hell, and I found myself enjoying every single 'story', even if some were better than others I would say 2, 3, and 5 were the strongest with the 4th story as the weakest and least on-point thematically. Rewatching the trailer again after reading the book, it seems like the film will be very faithful in its adaptation, and I feel like this may be one of those cinematic messes that I'll enjoy anyway because I've read the book while everyone around me is bored to tears. If anything, maybe the film will get more people to check out the source material. Edit: The reincarnation angle does seem much more explicit in the trailer than the book. As others have pointed out, the central theme of the book is human predation and the few individuals who try to stand up to it. It's nothing revolutionary idea-wise, but I thought the stories were well-crafted and I love the huge scope of the book and the cyclic structure. qbert fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2012 around 07:54 |
| # ? Aug 15, 2012 07:51 |
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I only first heard of this movie when I heard Jim Sturgess will be playing yet another Asian person. (Sorry, it's salt in the wound. gently caress 21.) Honestly, the idea of the movie being an anthology of six stories is intriguing; as someone who has barely heard of the book. I'm still not sold on the rationale for actors wearing makeup to play other races, even when it's happening in multiple directions. Maybe it could worked better animated. The arbitrary connection to 21 is enough to make me reluctant to invest the price of admission. (If they wanted to find a white dude, knowing he'll have wear yellowface, they should have not picked Jim Sturgess.) To me, it's more of a wait-and-see if it's worth seeing. The Wachowskis have a very mixed record IMO. This looks like they sort of got a creative blank check with this adaptation, which hasn't always worked out.
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| # ? Aug 15, 2012 08:16 |
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Am I the only one who really loved V For Vendetta? Sure, it wasn't a perfect film, but I found it to be an extremely enjoyable experience, and a great deal of fun to watch. I also feel that it's got arguably the most moving and affecting portrayal of homosexual persecution ever done in a mainstream film. That's partially because it's rarely (if ever) addressed in a mature and serious way in Hollywood, which is honestly pretty sad. But it doesn't take away from what V For Vendetta accomplished, in this respect. I have a lot of affection for the film just because of that. Anyway, that segment I'm referring to was very operatic, intense, dramatic, and extraordinarily effective, and despite lasting only 10-15 minutes it's basically the heart and soul of the entire film. While watching the trailer for Cloud Atlas, I was reminded more of that segment of V For Vendetta than anything else the Wachowski's have done, at least from a tonal point of view. This actually gives me a lot of hope that it could be great.
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| # ? Aug 15, 2012 10:17 |
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kaworu posted:Am I the only one who really loved V For Vendetta? Sure, it wasn't a perfect film, but I found it to be an extremely enjoyable experience, and a great deal of fun to watch. I also feel that it's got arguably the most moving and affecting portrayal of homosexual persecution ever done in a mainstream film. That's partially because it's rarely (if ever) addressed in a mature and serious way in Hollywood, which is honestly pretty sad. But it doesn't take away from what V For Vendetta accomplished, in this respect. I have a lot of affection for the film just because of that. I don't think the Wachowskis directed V for Vendetta. [edit] They wrote for it though
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| # ? Aug 15, 2012 10:27 |
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Zzulu posted:I don't think the Wachowskis directed V for Vendetta. You know, you're absolutely right. They wrote the screenplay and were 2 of 4 people who received producer credits, so I do suppose that's something. Apparently I never went over the credits carefully enough before! Oh, well.
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| # ? Aug 15, 2012 10:30 |
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kaworu posted:Am I the only one who really loved V For Vendetta? Nope, V for Vendetta is one of my favorite films, and it and The Matrix are the reasons why I'll give any Wachowskis movie a shot until they stop making movies.
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| # ? Aug 15, 2012 13:21 |
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kaworu posted:You know, you're absolutely right. They wrote the screenplay and were 2 of 4 people who received producer credits, so I do suppose that's something. Apparently I never went over the credits carefully enough before! Oh, well. Someone correct me if this is wrong, but I'm pretty sure V For Vendetta was directed by the Wachowskis long-time AD as his debut film. I believe the siblings were on set quite regularly advising McTeigue. I wouldn't say they "produced" the film in the same way Spielberg produced Poltergeist, but it's not exactly far off.
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| # ? Aug 15, 2012 13:33 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 05:44 |
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qbert posted:Well the trailer pushed me into reading the book, and having just finished it 10 minutes ago, I have to say I'm extremely excited to see this when it comes out, mess or not. The book was fantastic and ambitious as hell, and I found myself enjoying every single 'story', even if some were better than others I would say 2, 3, and 5 were the strongest with the 4th story as the weakest and least on-point thematically. It's been a long while since I read the book and maybe forgot the order but shame on you for dissing one of the best stories in the sequence. Timothy Cavendish rules.
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| # ? Aug 15, 2012 14:34 |
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