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drrockso20 posted:My main issue is that it just straight up kills you with no way out(have similar issues with executions being a thing), if it knocked you right into Bleeding Out instead it'd be a lot more tolerable and still be pretty dangerous, also screw whoever thought Phantoms, Engineer Turrets, or Possessed Scions were a fair and balanced idea It's actually pretty hard to get taken out of a round for good with a decent team and a full load of missiles, ops packs, and medigel. To get taken out without a sync-kill you usually have to be running around on your own somewhere and then choose not to medi-gel out of it. Sync kills add a needed level of difficulty to the game. I could perhaps agree with removing sync-kills from Bronze and Silver, but then you'd learn tons of bad habits there and have a really hard time moving up to gold. Felinoid posted:Praetorians' melee attack animation is about half of a second at most. Depending on lag you could conceivably be getting sync-killed on the host side before you even know they're hitting you at all on your end. To say nothing of the melee attack being powerful enough to stagger literally anyone, so you can't run anyway. They're also disturbingly silent when floating, so if you've got your back to a doorway... Granted, you should know to be looking around like you're the most paranoid person in the world if you're playing Collectors, for scion LoS and abominations as well as praetorians, but they can still sneak up on you very effectively so long as they don't come into line of sight. I dunno. I feel like Phantoms and Banshees sometimes get 'legit' kills on me where I play fairly well and still end up in a position where I eat a sync kill because I'm just out of options. With Praetorians, though, almost every time I've been sync killed by a Praetorian it was either lag or a case of me loving up by the numbers.
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Feb 2, 2016 01:57
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Khizan posted:I dunno. I feel like Phantoms and Banshees sometimes get 'legit' kills on me where I play fairly well and still end up in a position where I eat a sync kill because I'm just out of options. With Praetorians, though, almost every time I've been sync killed by a Praetorian it was either lag or a case of me loving up by the numbers. My point wasn't that praetorian sync kills are 'legit' (sorta the opposite), it was that they're not as rare as they ought to be, because it can happen so loving fast you may not even have time to react internally, much less do something about it.
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Feb 2, 2016 02:15
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I think the best way to make sync kills at least somewhat the user's fault is to at least fix the netcode so that you don't get sucked halfway across the map into the waiting arms of a banshee or at least give all sync killers a slight pause between a staggering attack so the user can get away if they have room. It's really the suddenness with no warning that makes it unfair. 90% of time sync kills are legit because you get cornered or you try to run around a teleporting banshee. 10% of the time you get things like the Praetorian's melee/sync kill combo or a banshee teleporting through a wall right on top of you. Even better would be if they made the game so that the staggering attacks like the Praetorian's gave you 90% DR but stunned you, made you crawl at 10% movement speed and the only way your rear end would get saved is if you had a teammate that knocked the attacker out of their "I'M GONNA GET YA" sequence.
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Feb 2, 2016 02:27
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John Murdoch posted:(like you sometimes can by stunning a boss out of it or apparently by breaking Phantoms' swords as the loading screen helpfully tells me every other game) I actually did this for the first time recently. I didn't even know it was a thing that could really happen. I forget which character I was using, I think the Batarian Skeet Shooter/Vanguard, but I had the Piranha and was just blasting away and saw the blade break off, which was the first time I'd ever seen that happen. Then I did it a few more times.
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Feb 2, 2016 06:31
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It happens a lot more often with a heavy sniper rifle with piercing on it, but also ends up being a lot less helpful. At least half of my phantom sword breaks have happened in the same shot I put through their head to end them. As well I'm fairly sure at least a handful of them have been at angles where I couldn't have possibly hit the sword too, so maybe there's also some sort of damage threshold thing going on.
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Feb 2, 2016 09:46
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Felinoid posted:It happens a lot more often with a heavy sniper rifle with piercing on it, but also ends up being a lot less helpful. At least half of my phantom sword breaks have happened in the same shot I put through their head to end them. As well I'm fairly sure at least a handful of them have been at angles where I couldn't have possibly hit the sword too, so maybe there's also some sort of damage threshold thing going on. Yeah, I did some digging to double check if it was even possible to do in MP to begin with, and found a lot of reports that the sword is strong enough/hard enough to hit that you're almost always better off just killing the Phantom. Also, naturally, it either was or is possible to get sync killed by a broken Phantom sword!  Khizan posted:Brutes, Atlases, Praetorians, and Scions won't sync kill until the very end of their melee attacks sequence, so they should very rarely get these off on you. This kind of stuff (and the aforementioned wonky detection on Brutes and such) is the reason why I don't agree that sync kills as they currently exist are necessary for game balance. If you can ignore them that easily (or completely by just fighting Geth, oops!), then their use as some kind of important balance lever is bunk. The ramp thing in particular bugs me because that trick can easily be the difference between dying literally every round as the Warlord or never dying ever. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 12:29
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Felinoid posted:It happens a lot more often with a heavy sniper rifle with piercing on it, but also ends up being a lot less helpful. At least half of my phantom sword breaks have happened in the same shot I put through their head to end them.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:39
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John Murdoch posted:This kind of stuff (and the aforementioned wonky detection on Brutes and such) is the reason why I don't agree that sync kills as they currently exist are necessary for game balance. If you can ignore them that easily (or completely by just fighting Geth, oops!), then their use as some kind of important balance lever is bunk. I think you're thinking about sync kills the wrong way. Sync kills aren't powerful because they kill you, they are poweful because they force you to react. Forget about Brutes, Atlases, and Scions. The deadly sync killers are the Banshees, Phantoms, and Praetorians. Not because their sync kills are the easiest to land or have the best animations, but because they've got the most mobility. They can get up in your face and the sync kill threat forces a reaction out of you. When a Banshee teleports up into your face and you've got to blow a missile cause you're boxed in by a turret, that was their sync kill drawing out one of your consumables. When a Praetorian lands near you and you run out into Scion fire, that was their sync kill forcing you out of position. Their ability to force you to scramble is what makes them so dangerous. Geth don't have that ability and that's why the geth are universally regarded as the easiest enemies in the game. They don't have anything that can shake you up.
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Feb 3, 2016 00:49
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Khizan posted:Geth don't have that ability and that's why the geth are universally regarded as the easiest enemies in the game. They don't have anything that can shake you up. I have to disagree on the geth being universally regarded as the easiest. Most people I talk to think of cerberus or reapers as the easiest. Geth may not have sync kills, but they've got assloads of stagger that can turn a single tiny mistake into a death (with nothing you can do to stop it) even easier than a sync kill can. They also have pyros, hunters, and bombers to flush you out of position.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:07
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Felinoid posted:I have to disagree on the geth being universally regarded as the easiest. Most people I talk to think of cerberus or reapers as the easiest. Geth may not have sync kills, but they've got assloads of stagger that can turn a single tiny mistake into a death (with nothing you can do to stop it) even easier than a sync kill can. They also have pyros, hunters, and bombers to flush you out of position. I second that- Reapers certainly have the least amount of shielded enemies, which makes dealing with them using anything with a Flamer or Snap Freeze a walk in the park. Husk and Cannibal groups tend to show up together and is a fast way to burn through the spawn budget.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:29
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Felinoid posted:I have to disagree on the geth being universally regarded as the easiest. Most people I talk to think of cerberus or reapers as the easiest. Geth may not have sync kills, but they've got assloads of stagger that can turn a single tiny mistake into a death (with nothing you can do to stop it) even easier than a sync kill can. They also have pyros, hunters, and bombers to flush you out of position. They are all tough in their way, though I think Cerberus has the biggest potential to become nightmarish when playing with pubs, because when your team stops killing, they start laying down turrets. Also those 4-spawn phantoms are just bullshit. I think the geth punish the poo poo out of players who don't keep looking in all directions. Pyros kill up close, hunters are invisible, and bombers are almost silent.
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Feb 3, 2016 02:19
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Khizan posted:I think you're thinking about sync kills the wrong way. Except that you already scramble against those enemies because even if they don't get right in your face for the sole purpose of performing an instant kill move, they'll either stagger you out in the open with their close range ability or completely ruin your day with their ranged one. And depending on the map, they can always just physically box you in. Ultimately, what's the difference between the threat of a boss forcing you to use a missile and hypothetically being able to medi-gel out of a sync kill? Either way you're spending a resource. What's the difference between getting caught in a bad spot so a Praetorian can death beam you to death and getting caught in a bad spot so the same Praetorian can instantly kill you, no take-backsies? Like I originally said, I'm not actually 100% against sync kills, but in practice they're a random roll (thanks to latency, glitches, and animation quirks) to see if you just instantly and permanently die to a boss in melee. The mechanic clashes wildly with having classes that need to be in melee to actually function (and they can't simply act as de facto "mook killers" because higher difficulties spawn almost nothing but bosses). Honestly, if there just were no melee classes and it was a hard rule that you never have a good reason to be in melee range of a boss, I wouldn't mind sync kills nearly as much. But then the mechanic is stifling possible creative class types... John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 13:22
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Sync kills are fun. If they are a problem for you, git gud.  (The mechanics may be a bit opaque, but they're completely avoidable if you know what you're doing)
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Feb 3, 2016 13:26
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In my mods I've made waves of enemies that are only ranged or close range. Without sync kills ranged only is a cakewalk (no sync kills) and close range only is still actually really easy as you can outrun everything. You won't have to watch your back for a phantom that snuck up since you will never die in just one hit. The mix of ranged that pin you down and the melee that force you out is key... It is surprising how difficult it is to mix enemies up but keep similar difficulty. I feel like a sync kill should force another player to revive you instead of certain death, and maybe have a half-time bleedout period.
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Feb 3, 2016 16:30
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I don't know why but outside of the turrets I find Cerberus to by far be the easiest. You can easily see Dragoons coming from miles away, basic mooks are trash, if you get to the assault engineers early enough you can negate the turret altogether, Atlases are slow as gently caress and rarely a huge threat, the ballistic shield guys are negated by armor piercing or hitting them in the mail slot.......
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Feb 3, 2016 16:55
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Leif. posted:I don't know why but outside of the turrets I find Cerberus to by far be the easiest. You can easily see Dragoons coming from miles away, basic mooks are trash, if you get to the assault engineers early enough you can negate the turret altogether, Atlases are slow as gently caress and rarely a huge threat, the ballistic shield guys are negated by armor piercing or hitting them in the mail slot....... If I were those guardian dudes I'd be on strike. The shield *does* protect against a Warlord's hammer, but everybody else blows right through it. Let's not even mention the indignity when some biotic alien just tugs the shield away via pull They may have one of the best guns in the game, but it's just *not enough*
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Feb 3, 2016 17:24
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I still think it's the speed at which you get sync killed that makes people want it removed from the game. Whether that's phantoms sliding up to you to sword stab you immediately or a Banshee lag sucking you across the room, it's the same helpless feeling. Sync kills should function a lot like the Atlas, Brute, or Scion sync kills which either have a tell before hand or put you in a situation where you can actually go "Oh poo poo, I'm hosed" before you get your head smashed in and at least gives your team a chance to save your stupid rear end.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:31
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man platinum matches sure can be tough, especially if you get a hack for your wave 10 two times in a row. That poo poo is hard
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Feb 3, 2016 20:45
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Leif. posted:I don't know why but outside of the turrets I find Cerberus to by far be the easiest. You can easily see Dragoons coming from miles away, basic mooks are trash, if you get to the assault engineers early enough you can negate the turret altogether, Atlases are slow as gently caress and rarely a huge threat, the ballistic shield guys are negated by armor piercing or hitting them in the mail slot....... Phantoms are the main issue there(the game really shouldn't be allowed to spawn more than one of those at a time on difficulties below Gold, same with Scions, those Cannon Reapers, and Geth Primes), as well as those times where more than one Dragoon can get close to you, or the Engineer does get a turret up
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Feb 3, 2016 22:11
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Maybe it's just my playstyle -- I find I'm much more likely to die frustratingly on Plat (sometimes Gold) from random stray gunfire from mooks and guys like Captains or Scions, than I am from a sync kill. There are just frustratingly times when the TTK on you is far less than the time to react and get to nearest cover; unless you're playing a class with some way of dealing with it (stimpacks/energy drain/teleports etc.) it can be unavoidable.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:30
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Well, sure. If you're good at the game the basic enemies are no problem. You know how to avoid sync kills from the big ones. But those loving Marauders just shoot you to death. 
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Feb 3, 2016 22:34
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Leif. posted:Maybe it's just my playstyle -- I find I'm much more likely to die frustratingly on Plat (sometimes Gold) from random stray gunfire from mooks and guys like Captains or Scions, than I am from a sync kill. There are just frustratingly times when the TTK on you is far less than the time to react and get to nearest cover; unless you're playing a class with some way of dealing with it (stimpacks/energy drain/teleports etc.) it can be unavoidable. That's what the Banshees, get bombers, dragons etc are supposed to do. They force you out of cover to be shot by the long range enemies.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:35
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Yeah, I get that. It's just funny to me that the overwhelming majority of my deaths come from mooks like that -- and not even in terms of "I got flushed out by a bomber"; it's more like "I popped out of cover to take a shot, my shields got dropped instantly because two mauraders or cannibals firing at you is death within .75 seconds." I can't remember the last time I died to a Phantom except if they sniped me from afar with a gunshot. And the only sync kills I regularly get hit by are Praetorians and Banshees.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:10
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Psion posted:Well, sure. If you're good at the game the basic enemies are no problem. You know how to avoid sync kills from the big ones. But those loving Marauders just elbow you to death.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:43
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Well I finally cracked and bought the PC version(the Trilogy set was on sale), and research indicates that my laptop more or less meets the minimum requirements so hopefully it'll run decently enough to be worth playing
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Feb 4, 2016 04:41
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drrockso20 posted:Well I finally cracked and bought the PC version(the Trilogy set was on sale), and research indicates that my laptop more or less meets the minimum requirements so hopefully it'll run decently enough to be worth playing I could run ME3 on my desktop that I purchased in january of 06 (with only an upgrade to a GTS 8800 video card along the way) and my laptop with some geforce go card (7700 or something?). It runs nice even on poo poo computers, is my point.
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Feb 4, 2016 06:13
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Pander posted:I could run ME3 on my desktop that I purchased in january of 06 (with only an upgrade to a GTS 8800 video card along the way) and my laptop with some geforce go card (7700 or something?). Yeah it's a pleasant surprise really
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Feb 4, 2016 06:24
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drrockso20 posted:Yeah it's a pleasant surprise really ME2 also ran great on my ollllld desktop after they patched the single core processor issue that made the game unplayable. ME2 and ME3 have insanely good graphics for how well they run on crap machines, which is very surprising considering how much the opposite was true for ME1. My desktop ran ME2 and ME3 flawlessly, but made ME1 a chore with it's stuttering choppy gameplay even on the lowest graphical setting.
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Feb 4, 2016 07:16
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Khizan posted:Their ability to force you to scramble is what makes them so dangerous. Yeah, this. I recently had a Banshee chasing me through the back hallway on Giant, and as she got closer I would move, but then as she's forcing me back, a Brute blindsides me by charging out of the front hallway door, forcing me to dodge again when it tried to sync kill me, back into the arms of the Banshee, who sync killed me. quote:Geth don't have that ability and that's why the geth are universally regarded as the easiest enemies in the game. They don't have anything that can shake you up. Having three Primes staggering you at once is worse than getting sync killed.
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Feb 4, 2016 10:10
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As a melee class, Krogan Warlords should be able to revive after a sync kill I reckon. That would play into the "backup organs" codex lore. I just want to get some decent charges and hammer swings in on a Banshee man 
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Feb 5, 2016 10:41
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Wait until they drop the warp-aura-teleporty thing and then hammer away.
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Feb 5, 2016 11:04
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Khizan posted:Wait until they drop the warp-aura-teleporty thing and then hammer away. I always loved playing against the Geth with my Krogan Warlord. Best game was "Name that tune using the Geth Prime's face". I could usually do it in 6 notes (2 - three hit combos). 
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Feb 5, 2016 18:30
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My Q-Face posted:Having three Primes staggering you at once is worse than getting sync killed. Maybe it's just because I play the Ghost most of the time, but I'd rather get staggered cause then I at least have the chance of stimming/cloaking my way out of it.
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Feb 6, 2016 01:12
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I've seen Atlases get stuck on roofs in Giant, enemies get stuck on the railings above White, and Phantoms flip off the ledge and die on Glacier, but I've never encountered this before. https://i.imgur.com/fYxwg0g.gifv
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Feb 8, 2016 05:43
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My Q-Face posted:I've seen Atlases get stuck on roofs in Giant, enemies get stuck on the railings above White, and Phantoms flip off the ledge and die on Glacier, but I've never encountered this before. HE'S AT THE THIRTY, THE TWENTY, THE TEN, HE IS GONE!
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Feb 8, 2016 05:47
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My Q-Face posted:I've seen Atlases get stuck on roofs in Giant, enemies get stuck on the railings above White, and Phantoms flip off the ledge and die on Glacier, but I've never encountered this before. Pander posted:HE'S AT THE THIRTY, THE TWENTY, THE TEN, HE IS GONE! Did he do the Dab when he scored?
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Feb 8, 2016 09:37
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Looks like the host went AWOL. Did everyone else freeze in place at the same time?
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Feb 8, 2016 09:39
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Wasn't my game, but it does look like the other player ran into a wall and kept running. I play PS3 though, I've seen where everybody freezes but me, but I've never seen everybody keep moving like that.
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Feb 8, 2016 10:27
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My Q-Face posted:Wasn't my game, but it does look like the other player ran into a wall and kept running. That happens to me all the time on 360. Everyone just keeps walking.
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Feb 8, 2016 14:51
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I killed a phantom when as a Batarian Vanguard she melee'd me and killed herself on my blade armor. That is all
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Feb 29, 2016 22:06
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