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Cyphoderus
Apr 21, 2010

I'll have you know, foxes have the finest call in nature

Scrape posted:

-Finally, and both ApocWorld and Dungeon World lay this out, but I made a big sign on my homemade GM screen that says "Fiction Trumps Everything." One of my players was debating whether his DungeonWorld character should take a shield or not. He was like "it's only +1 armor..." and I thought about it and replied: "Sure, it's +1 Armor, but it's also a shield. You can carry things on it,you can block portals with it, you can keep the hail off you in a storm, and most importantly, you can block an attack. Don't worry about the armor, worry about whether or not your warrior would carry a motherfucking shield." And that sold him on it, right there.

More importantly, a shield has immense psychological value. For some reason, if a strag (strag: non-adventurer) discovers that an adventurer has his shield with him, he will automatically assume that he is also in possession of a toothbrush, face flannel, soap, dungeon rations, flask, compass, map, rope, ten-foot pole, wet weather gear, leather corset etc., etc. Furthermore, the strag will then happily lend the adventurer any of these or a dozen other items that the adventurer might accidentally have "lost". What the strag will think is that any man who can explore the length and breadth of the realm, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through, and still knows where his shield is is clearly a man to be reckoned with.

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RyuujinBlueZ
Oct 9, 2007

WHAT DID YOU DO?!
Man, the more I read about *World games the more interesting it sounds. I do have a question, though.

I've been wanting to run a Persona game (I'll explain what that is if nobody knows), and been looking at a couple systems. But now, well, ApocWorld and Dungeon World both sound like they'd be fun for that too with a little modding and hacking done. What do you guys with more experience think? Persona's a lot about the socialization aspect, and it seems like that could be expressed really well in the *World system.

sighnoceros
Mar 11, 2007
:qq: GOONS ARE MEAN :qq:
I think they would be a great fit for a Persona game. As said before, you aren't going to have realistic tactical combat but I think that's fine for that style of game. I'm not sure how to best model the Personas (it would depend on if you have it set up so everyone has a single Persona or they can switch them, whatever...), but I could see them modeled how the Druid is in Dungeon World.

For the Druid, whenever they shapeshift, they roll+Wis, and the result gives them a certain amount of "hold", which is like currency you can use to do awesome things. So a good success gives you like 3 hold. Then they also get a move or two based on the form they shapeshifted into. Each time they want to use a move, they spend a hold, and it just happens. When they're out of hold, they transform back.

So when someone summons a Persona, they could get a couple moves based on what the Persona represents, and use hold to perform them.

That's one way to do it, but I would expect since the combat will basically be the Personas fighting, you probably want something more detailed. So I would suggest coming up with some moves for each Persona, or just making a bunch of default "Persona moves" or something that all of them can pull from.

Post your progress here, I would love to see it, big fan of the games.

Edit: The other benefit of these games is that modding/hacking them is so EASY. There's no complex math behind the system that you need to fix, there's not a ton of options for each character that you need to replace, basically just figure out stats (where characters get their bonuses to rolls, these can be abstract like "hard" or "cool" or "weird" or they can be more concrete like D&D stats), then come up with some setting-appropriate moves for people to do and you're off to the races.

sighnoceros fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Aug 14, 2012

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Scrape posted:

EDIT: to be completely fair, though, there are a few things that *World does NOT excel at: realistic combat, and "leveling up." Characters start powerful and learn new tricks, but they don't get tougher or ever reach god-like status, if that's your thing. *World is simply amazing for storytelling, inter-party conflicts that remain fun intead of frustrating, and moving a story along in unpredictable ways. If you want tactical, realistic combat, do NOT reach for ApocWorld.

To be fair, it's not trying to be "realistic". It's unapologetically cinematic.

Scrape
Apr 10, 2007

i've been sharpening a knife in the bathroom.

InfiniteJesters posted:

Well, some classes in Dungeon World CAN get tougher, namely the Fighter who gets better at making the most of his armor, but I see your point. :v:

This is true, classes definitely improve, but I had to explain to my players that their HP would stay roughly the same throughout their careers, but that they should NOT consider that being "gimped" by any means. It's a different sort of game.

Cyphoderus posted:

More importantly, a shield has immense psychological value...

This is exactly what I was geting at, for sure. And my players got the point, too, and were very excited. The idea that your equipment says something about you is really cool to me. Not just a boring +1 bonus climb checks... if you are carying grappling hooks, pitons, harnesses, ropes, we all know what you can do. And you know what? I'ma let you do it, so forget about pumping points into a Climb skill like a chump.



Overally, ApocWorld and then Dungeon World was like a breath of fresh loving air after years of Initiative Checks and Defense Scores and poo poo. I LOVE LOVE LOVE these games. So much that I'm downloading all the Hacks and writing my own and I can't stop scouring the forums. Love this systems and love these games!


Evil Mastermind posted:

To be fair, it's not trying to be "realistic". It's unapologetically cinematic.

Yeah yeah, definitely, and I love that. I was just pointing that out to anyone that thinks "gritty post-apocalyptic world" and their idea of gritty is some bullshit verisimilitude involving hit locations and poo poo. I am 100% for their cinematic angle, but it's good to be honest with people so they know what they're buying.

MrQueasy
Nov 15, 2005

Probiot-ICK
Oh man, I love me some Apocalypse World.

I love it so much that I like to create character art for my players:

My quickly defunct pbp game on another forum.
My ongoing -but currently on-hiatus due to the birth of my son- campaign.

The two-tone effect is actually pretty simple. Just find a stock image/images you like, photoshop in details, and then fill a layer with black and a layer with white, and use the lasso to cut out pieces of one to show off the other. Go for big sections of white or black... it's surprising how much detail can be suggested by just the edges of negative space.

RyuujinBlueZ
Oct 9, 2007

WHAT DID YOU DO?!

sighnoceros posted:

I think they would be a great fit for a Persona game. As said before, you aren't going to have realistic tactical combat but I think that's fine for that style of game. I'm not sure how to best model the Personas (it would depend on if you have it set up so everyone has a single Persona or they can switch them, whatever...), but I could see them modeled how the Druid is in Dungeon World.

For the Druid, whenever they shapeshift, they roll+Wis, and the result gives them a certain amount of "hold", which is like currency you can use to do awesome things. So a good success gives you like 3 hold. Then they also get a move or two based on the form they shapeshifted into. Each time they want to use a move, they spend a hold, and it just happens. When they're out of hold, they transform back.

So when someone summons a Persona, they could get a couple moves based on what the Persona represents, and use hold to perform them.

That's one way to do it, but I would expect since the combat will basically be the Personas fighting, you probably want something more detailed. So I would suggest coming up with some moves for each Persona, or just making a bunch of default "Persona moves" or something that all of them can pull from.

Post your progress here, I would love to see it, big fan of the games.

Edit: The other benefit of these games is that modding/hacking them is so EASY. There's no complex math behind the system that you need to fix, there's not a ton of options for each character that you need to replace, basically just figure out stats (where characters get their bonuses to rolls, these can be abstract like "hard" or "cool" or "weird" or they can be more concrete like D&D stats), then come up with some setting-appropriate moves for people to do and you're off to the races.

Thank you so much for this, and I'll absolutely keep you updated. At the moment I've been looking at converting Magical Burst to Persona, but finding myself uneasy about it. A *World game, especially Dungeon World, sounds so much better and more fun.

What I'm actually thinking of doing is mimicking the games a little, in having the human aspects do a fair bit/most of the combat with Persona being called out for special moves/spells and really cool poo poo. Though it's tempting to draw on more of the feel of P4: Arena too. I'll have to decide, though I can already say I'd probably tack the Persona summoning as a bonus on top of whatever other class anybody took so nobody'd be locked into being a Druid or something.

I've got the PDF off that site on my Kindle, so I'm definitely going to read up on Dungeon World and dive into that. I already have a good plan for a Social Link system that I think'll be great fun.

FewtureMD
Dec 19, 2010

I am very powerful, of course.


RyuujinBlueZ posted:

Thank you so much for this, and I'll absolutely keep you updated. At the moment I've been looking at converting Magical Burst to Persona, but finding myself uneasy about it. A *World game, especially Dungeon World, sounds so much better and more fun.

What I'm actually thinking of doing is mimicking the games a little, in having the human aspects do a fair bit/most of the combat with Persona being called out for special moves/spells and really cool poo poo. Though it's tempting to draw on more of the feel of P4: Arena too. I'll have to decide, though I can already say I'd probably tack the Persona summoning as a bonus on top of whatever other class anybody took so nobody'd be locked into being a Druid or something.

I've got the PDF off that site on my Kindle, so I'm definitely going to read up on Dungeon World and dive into that. I already have a good plan for a Social Link system that I think'll be great fun.

If you feel like emulating the whole "user and Persona are intimately connected" feeling, why not try Monsters and Other Childish Things? It evens explains how you can use stats and descriptions to fully flesh out a persona/monster. It even has a social link system!


For content: Dungeon World was the first time I had fun/felt useful while playing a Fighter in an RPG.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Yeah, MAOCT is exactly what I would use for a fighting-centric Persona hack. It's got relationship-powered attacks and everything.

Don't Rest Your Head would probably be my first choice overall for a hack-base, though, what with the questions of exhaustion and pain and insanity already built in.

E: more generally, please, when making a hack, ask yourself what it will be about, and what the characters will do, and how any given rule will support those goals, discarding any for whom you can't come up with a good answer, and choosing a different base-game if you get rid of everything. AW is a great game and eminently hackable, but that doesn't make it perfect for every possible use.

Let's not make this the new Sorceror.

Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Aug 15, 2012

Scrape
Apr 10, 2007

i've been sharpening a knife in the bathroom.

Doc Hawkins posted:

More generally, please, when making a hack, ask yourself what it will be about, and what the characters will do, and how any given rule will support those goals, discarding any for whom you can't come up with a good answer, and choosing a different base-game if you get rid of everything. AW is a great game and eminently hackable, but that doesn't make it perfect for every possible use.

This is a really, really important point. *World games excel with interpersonal relationships where characters have influence and control over the world, but consistent interpersonal conflicts. Having contrasting agendas is practically what the game is written for. It's also a game of tough choices (which is why it works for epic fantasy so well).

Using a *World hack for Ars Magica would probably be a mistake, but a game of espionage would be perfect.

My Shadowrun Hack definitely downplays combat quite a bit, and focuses on negotiation, double-crossing, and infiltration. To that end, it works really well. If you wanted a game of firefights and car chases, I'm pretty sure that Cyberworld would not fit the bill.

Kestral
Nov 24, 2000

Forum Veteran

Scrape posted:

This is a really, really important point. *World games excel with interpersonal relationships where characters have influence and control over the world, but consistent interpersonal conflicts. Having contrasting agendas is practically what the game is written for. It's also a game of tough choices (which is why it works for epic fantasy so well).

The interpersonal conflicts part of that description is something I'd really like to see fleshed out in an Apocalypse engine game. Monsterhearts has its neat Strings mechanic and some nasty interpersonal Moves, but even in that system it's all over in a flash. I want the back-and-forth feel of a good argument, with lots of room for damage and compromises, like the gang warfare rules with more impassioned speeches. I wouldn't use it in vanilla Apocalypse World, but something like epic fantasy just wouldn't feel right without it.

SlimGoodbody
Oct 20, 2003

I haven't had occasion to use the advanced combat rules in AW yet, but I imagine they would increase tactical grit by some amount. Has anyone used them yet? How did you like them?

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Scrape posted:

This is a really, really important point. *World games excel with interpersonal relationships where characters have influence and control over the world, but consistent interpersonal conflicts. Having contrasting agendas is practically what the game is written for. It's also a game of tough choices (which is why it works for epic fantasy so well).

I wouldn't say so much that it's about choices as the consequences of your actions for good or bad.

Yeah, I wouldn't try to make a superhero hack, but something sci-fi-ish would probably work.

RyuujinBlueZ
Oct 9, 2007

WHAT DID YOU DO?!

Doc Hawkins posted:

E: more generally, please, when making a hack, ask yourself what it will be about, and what the characters will do, and how any given rule will support those goals, discarding any for whom you can't come up with a good answer, and choosing a different base-game if you get rid of everything. AW is a great game and eminently hackable, but that doesn't make it perfect for every possible use.

This really is a good point, and what I'm trying to do as much as I can. I've kind of been looking through several systems and mulling over both how I feel about the system in general, how much I'd need to change to actually make it feel right, and why I'd need to change something in a system.

So far, Dungeon World is actually looking pretty good for what I actually want to do with a Persona game but I will look into the others suggested as well. If I think I need more help in general, I might actually start a thread for it.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
Time to write some moves for my DW setting!

History goes that the dragons made the kobold as a slave race, but the kobold eventually rose up against them and exploited the knowledge they'd been privy to as slaves to kill most of the dragons. Today, they roam the world in small tribes, slaying dragonspawn wherever they find them and hunting down the last of the dragons.

Kobold are fairly small and wiry, so they use a lot of teamwork while fighting - draw the dragonspawn's attention to one or two kobold while the others flank it, then attack all at once for a killing blow.

Here's the kobold Fighter move:

TEAM PLAYER

When you attack the same creature as one of your allies, you can choose to roll +[stat]. If you do:
  • on a 10+, you co-ordinate perfectly; both you and that ally take +1 forward.
  • on a 7-9, you distract the enemy but you're off-balance - your ally takes +1 forward and you take -1 forward.
  • on a miss, you've over-extended and put yourself in danger - the GM will tell you how.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Aug 15, 2012

Doctor Shadow
Dec 12, 2008
I like that Lemon. I am also very late to the DW party, but I'll be grabbing a copy of this when it comes out in print for certain!

weirdspaceships
Jan 26, 2012

SlimGoodbody posted:

I haven't had occasion to use the advanced combat rules in AW yet, but I imagine they would increase tactical grit by some amount. Has anyone used them yet? How did you like them?

We've tried them once or twice. Didn't really dig them. They weren't bad, and they add a small layer of strategy to combat, but two things: a) they didn't do much (that we needed them to do) that the basic moves didn't already accomplish, and b) they made things a little more hectic.

It felt more dangerous, to be sure, but it also felt a little more constrained for our tastes.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

The Dungeon World guys just linked this nice little 1st-level adventure on their G+ stream.

The Indigo Galleon

Scrape
Apr 10, 2007

i've been sharpening a knife in the bathroom.

Evil Mastermind posted:

I wouldn't say so much that it's about choices as the consequences of your actions for good or bad.

Yeah, I wouldn't try to make a superhero hack, but something sci-fi-ish would probably work.

While the campaigns are definitely built on consequences, I think of the *World games as games of choices, basically because so many of the moves have player choices baked right into them. There are so, so many moves that say, "On a 10+, choose 3. On a 7-9, choose 1" and that, to me, emphasizes choice in a way that other RPGs do not.

The typical move setup is something like this...
Choose two of the following three choices:
-Learn something important
-Gain something useful
-Remain safe and out of danger

It forces the player to prioritize their desires, which most pass/fail mechanics don't, and in the process I think it encourages better roleplaying: what does my character value more in this situation? What does it say about my character that he's willing to endanger himself to get what he wants?

You absolutely could say that this is a matter of consequence instead of choice, I'd totally accept that. But either way, I absolutely love that the game has no "Nope, you failed your roll, next person's turn" moments. Every failed roll leads to some new interesting situation (a consequence, like you say).

MrQueasy
Nov 15, 2005

Probiot-ICK
And as a game, by reducing the MCs role to a seemingly "reactionary" role (responding with logically following moves to the moves the players make) it makes my job as a GM both easier from a prep standpoint, but easier from a "Well, you freely chose the bad stuff when I made the move Offer a Hard Choice, so here's the whole world of poo poo you find yourself in" perspective.

As a GM I struggle with the insecurity that I'm killing people's fun by inflicting negative consequences on their characters. With the burden of choice a little more evenly distributed throughout the group, I'm more confident in following through on the nastiness I foreshadow.

(My other favorite part is keeping everything in the crosshairs. "What happens when I shoot this person/vehicle/thing?" "To do it, do it!" "Ok" "It dies/explodes/sends ricochets careening wildly through the innocent bystanders.")

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Scrape posted:

-Finally, and both ApocWorld and Dungeon World lay this out, but I made a big sign on my homemade GM screen that says "Fiction Trumps Everything." One of my players was debating whether his DungeonWorld character should take a shield or not. He was like "it's only +1 armor..." and I thought about it and replied: "Sure, it's +1 Armor, but it's also a shield. You can carry things on it,you can block portals with it, you can keep the hail off you in a storm, and most importantly, you can block an attack. Don't worry about the armor, worry about whether or not your warrior would carry a motherfucking shield." And that sold him on it, right there.
This is a good point, and it's one of the things I have really grown to love about AW and other story games like it.

For instance, in a PbP game I recently started, one of my players was creating his Gunlugger and wasn't sure if he should take the Big rear end Knife (2-harm hand) or Many Knives (2-harm hand infinite) as his back-up weapon. He couldn't figure out the advantage of choosing a Big rear end Knife over Many Knives since they were so mechanically similar. I told him, the advantage is that it's a big rear end knife.

He wound up going with Many Kinves, not because it's mechanically superior, but because that's what his character would have.

Scrape
Apr 10, 2007

i've been sharpening a knife in the bathroom.

BlurryMystr posted:

For instance, in a PbP game I recently started, one of my players was creating his Gunlugger and wasn't sure if he should take the Big rear end Knife (2-harm hand) or Many Knives (2-harm hand infinite) as his back-up weapon. He couldn't figure out the advantage of choosing a Big rear end Knife over Many Knives since they were so mechanically similar. I told him, the advantage is that it's a big rear end knife.

I love this anecdote, man! Both of those (mechanically identical) choices are so, so different in a game of AW. A Big rear end Knife is threatening as hell, you can really scare a dude with that. Many Knives are not nearly so threatening, no one cares about your dumb little dagger, but it sure is useful when you've been captured and you can say to the MC, "No, I'm not unarmed. They forgot about my boot knife... knives."

Or, like, are you the kind of guy who carries a sawed-off shotgun or a magnum? They are identical on paper, but when we play the game you bet your rear end they are very different things and say very different things about who that character is.

Scrape
Apr 10, 2007

i've been sharpening a knife in the bathroom.

SlimGoodbody posted:

I haven't had occasion to use the advanced combat rules in AW yet, but I imagine they would increase tactical grit by some amount. Has anyone used them yet? How did you like them?

I actually think the advanced combat rules are kinda hokey, myself. I've never had cause to bring them out. Mostly they seem useful for massive firefights when you think there's a good chance of everyone taking a bullet at some point, but I feel like that is covered by regular hard moves anyway.

Cyphoderus
Apr 21, 2010

I'll have you know, foxes have the finest call in nature

Evil Mastermind posted:

I wouldn't say so much that it's about choices as the consequences of your actions for good or bad.

Yeah, I wouldn't try to make a superhero hack, but something sci-fi-ish would probably work.

What? A superhero game that focuses on the consequences of the characters' actions, for good or bad? Sounds like an incredible superhero game to me!

pre:
Good Shall Prevail
When you make a speech to a villain about the error of his ways, gain +1 ongoing against him for the remainder of the altercation. Additionally, roll+amazing:
On a 10+, the villain completely ignores your words.
On a 7-9, choose one:
- The villain does not use the opportunity to prepare himself against you (making an escape plan, taking someone hostage, etc.)
- The villain does not use the speech to discover one of your personal weaknesses

Collateral Damage
When you directly or indirectly cause a massive amount of destruction in a civilian area, roll+luck:
On a 10+, no one is seriously harmed.
On a 7-9, choose two:
- Not many civilian casualties occur
- Your reputation and status do not take a hit
- You don't traumatize one specific person who will play a role in your future
Edit: Thinking about it now, you can get a lot of mileage for superhero stories just from the "name everyone" and "put everything in crosshairs" principles.

Cyphoderus fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Aug 18, 2012

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

For moves, yes it's pretty straightforward. Playbooks would be a little trickier, though, because while you could stick to "Brick/Speedster/Gadgeteer" and so on, you want to have enough customization for people to play the type of Brick they want.

HitTheTargets
Mar 3, 2006

I came here to laugh at you.

Evil Mastermind posted:

For moves, yes it's pretty straightforward. Playbooks would be a little trickier, though, because while you could stick to "Brick/Speedster/Gadgeteer" and so on, you want to have enough customization for people to play the type of Brick they want.

How so? Do you mean, like, the way any given Gunlugger could be a sniper or a machinegunner or a grenade launcherer? That seems doable with superheroes. Like, instead of Gear everyone gets minor powers that grant extra tags for when they do whatever they do.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
So in the indie RPGs thread this was briefly discussed, but I am interested so I'll be ruminating on it: CyberWorld! Basically, Gibson/Stephenson/CP2020 (but not Shadowrun) using the AW engine.

The best part of that is that you don't even need to do much work, as most of the AW playbooks work. The only exception is the Brainer, because Weird makes more sense as Cyber. Instead of the Brainer, there will probably be a Decker playbook. I'm also thinking of replacing sex moves with Upgrade moves for each class that add stuff you can do with +cyber.

Anyway, here's the decking move:

When you access a secure system, roll +cyber. On a 10+, choose 3; on a 7-9, choose 1; on a miss, choose 1, but security is already on its way and you have to leave now:
- You have admin rights.
- The hack is quick.
- The hack is careful - no one knows you're in the system.
- The hack is untraceable (no one will go looking for you when the breach is found, but you can still be caught on the scene).

There'll probably be a move you can take called Console Cowboy that lets you hold +1, too.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Aug 19, 2012

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Isn't hold usually, uh, held in reserve for the future? This sounds more like the "pick 3" thing that comes up with, say, seizing by force.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

Glazius posted:

Isn't hold usually, uh, held in reserve for the future? This sounds more like the "pick 3" thing that comes up with, say, seizing by force.

You're correct! Making it "choose X" also works better in general.

Thanks.

RyuujinBlueZ
Oct 9, 2007

WHAT DID YOU DO?!
Don't the choices contradict the failure? You can still choose one on fail, and one of the options is "nobody knows you're in the system" but yet security is still coming.

I guess the fiction could fill in the details, I suppose.

Tasoth
Dec 13, 2011
I'm actually in the process of setting up a Cyberworld AW game. I think the only real changes I had to make was what the Maelstrom really is and the fluff bits for the playbooks. And the Brainer is easy, at least for me, with the Maelstrom being the network almost every human and machine is a part of at all times, they're the individuals that hack people's brains. No muss, no fuss, just some fluff conversion.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

RyuujinBlueZ posted:

Don't the choices contradict the failure? You can still choose one on fail, and one of the options is "nobody knows you're in the system" but yet security is still coming.

I thought of this, but the idea is actually that on a miss you still get what you came for, you just don't have the time to do anything else unless you picked "the hack is quick;" they know that someone is accessing the network from the location you're currently at, so you have to leave the place you're at or suffer the consequences.

By contrast, "the hack is untraceable" means that they don't have evidence to pin it on you after the facts - if you leave before security shows up, you got away clean.

RyuujinBlueZ
Oct 9, 2007

WHAT DID YOU DO?!

Lemon Curdistan posted:

I thought of this, but the idea is actually that on a miss you still get what you came for, you just don't have the time to do anything else unless you picked "the hack is quick;" they know that someone is accessing the network from the location you're currently at, so you have to leave the place you're at or suffer the consequences.

By contrast, "the hack is untraceable" means that they don't have evidence to pin it on you after the facts - if you leave before security shows up, you got away clean.

I was more talking about "the hack is careful" option. As written it specifically notes that nobody knows you're in the system.. Untraceable is obvious, yes, that so long as you get out in time you're clear. And quick would let you get away from security more easily but probably leave evidence behind. But the apparent point of "the hack is careful" is to keep anyone from knowing you're there in the first place, which contradicts the failure automatically having security know you're there.

I mean, I guess you could just make players pick something else but I always find that distasteful personally.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

HitTheTargets posted:

How so? Do you mean, like, the way any given Gunlugger could be a sniper or a machinegunner or a grenade launcherer? That seems doable with superheroes. Like, instead of Gear everyone gets minor powers that grant extra tags for when they do whatever they do.

Hmm, good point. I wonder what kind of customization options you'd need, though.

Scrape
Apr 10, 2007

i've been sharpening a knife in the bathroom.
This is interesting, I'm also working on a Cyberworld hack for AW, and so are a few other people on the AW forums. Seems like an easy and obvious hack- as mentioned, there really isn't much that you need to change. Except I changed the Weird stat to Wired, which I like better than Cyber because it's a play on the original. I also changed Hot into Sleazy, but that's strictly flavor, for a more grimy feel or whatever. My hack is pretty explicitly Shadowrun-based, as you'll see.

Here was my hacking move:

When you Hack a Network, roll +Wired.
On a 10+, you slide past security and get what you came for.
On a 7-9, choose one:
...you got what you came for
...you weren't identified
On a Miss, neither, and now you've got a problem.


I also changed Open Your Brain, but only in flavor. I'm kinda using the new Shadowrun idea of the Matrix as Augmented Reality, so everyone has access:

When you Search the Matrix for Answers, roll +Wired.
On a 10+, the MC will tell you something new and interesting about the topic of your choice.
On a 7-9, you get a little info but it's pretty cryptic, or your search was too public.
On a Miss, you were caught snooping where you don't belong.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


Tasoth posted:

I'm actually in the process of setting up a Cyberworld AW game. I think the only real changes I had to make was what the Maelstrom really is and the fluff bits for the playbooks. And the Brainer is easy, at least for me, with the Maelstrom being the network almost every human and machine is a part of at all times, they're the individuals that hack people's brains. No muss, no fuss, just some fluff conversion.

Huh. That's a really good point. I've been watching the Ghost in the Shell TV show lately, and you're absolutely right, a lot of the moves map one-to-one. "Opening your brain" is doing research or hacking security cameras, just like anyone can do. BrainersHackers can disable, control, or rewrite people.

The big changes seem to be fictional, in that MC Moves prompted by misses would be different. I think you'd also want to change the rules for requiring line of sight and time and intimacy. Maybe give a move or mechanic to Brainers where you can spend hold to use someone you've hacked as a brain relay. Also a move that lets you outright possess people with a high Wired.

(e: then again, the characters in the show have super-duper custom gear, so maybe the rules as written work better for the people of The Street)

Calling the stat "Wired" is a great idea, Scrape.

Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Aug 19, 2012

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Doc Hawkins posted:

(e: then again, the characters in the show have super-duper custom gear, so maybe the rules as written work better for the people of The Street)

Calling the stat "Wired" is a great idea, Scrape.

I don't see a problem with putting custom gear in playbooks. AW itself does it and so do some of the hacks out there; the Rogue Trader: Apocalypse hack has custom gear, new options for gangs and a shipbuilding system I'm totally stealing for Spinward Worlds.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

RyuujinBlueZ posted:

I was more talking about "the hack is careful" option. As written it specifically notes that nobody knows you're in the system.. Untraceable is obvious, yes, that so long as you get out in time you're clear. And quick would let you get away from security more easily but probably leave evidence behind. But the apparent point of "the hack is careful" is to keep anyone from knowing you're there in the first place, which contradicts the failure automatically having security know you're there.

I mean, I guess you could just make players pick something else but I always find that distasteful personally.

Crap, you're right. :downs: Let's try this again.

When you access a secure system, roll +cyber. On a 10+, choose 2; on a 7-9, choose 1; on a miss, choose 1, but security is already on its way and you have to leave now:
- You have admin rights and can do whatever you want with the system.
- The hack is quick - you've got plenty of time left.
- The hack is careful - they don't get anything that links to you specifically when they find the intrusion.

Scrape posted:

Here was my hacking move:

When you Hack a Network, roll +Wired.
On a 10+, you slide past security and get what you came for.
On a 7-9, choose one:
...you got what you came for
...you weren't identified
On a Miss, neither, and now you've got a problem.

The reasons I don't like this are that it's possible to fail completely, and that your 7-9 feels like a "non-choice" - basically, on anything other than a 10+ you've most likely wasted a die roll. It'd be much better if your 7-9 were something like "you get what you came from, but choose one" and then offered "you weren't identified" and something else as the choices.

Also, I am stealing the hell out of +wired, that's a great idea. :toot:

e; also love your opening your mind to the Matrix move, I may also steal the hell out of that.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Aug 19, 2012

Cyphoderus
Apr 21, 2010

I'll have you know, foxes have the finest call in nature

HitTheTargets posted:

How so? Do you mean, like, the way any given Gunlugger could be a sniper or a machinegunner or a grenade launcherer? That seems doable with superheroes. Like, instead of Gear everyone gets minor powers that grant extra tags for when they do whatever they do.

Powers as gear, with tags, is the best idea. Each playbook gets to pick their powers at the end from a list of options just like AW and DW do with equipment. Hulk Smash (3-harm, hand, messy).

I was thinking about superhero playbooks on the bus yesterday. Playbooks could be more general 'roles' performed by superheroes when they are in teams. You could have a 'Commander' playbook for those who lead and inspire other heroes (Captain America, Superman, etc). A 'Lurker' playbook similar to the Thief that excels at getting into places and fighting from unexpected positions. And in the power selection category of the lurker, you could for instance have your pick between a speedster, an invisible person or a teleporter. Then you could have advanced moves that let you pick another power from your playbook list or from another playbook, a form of 'multiclassing'.

There is also nothing wrong with reducing the number of playbooks options. AW does this, as well as DW with its super-traditional classes. No one said a superhero game had to be a generic superhero game. It's a wonderful way to tighten up the thematic design of your game, too. Maybe you make a 'Handicapped' playbook that creates blind or one-armed or what have you heroes whose powers offset their handicap, and a couple of other tightly-focused playbooks. Nothing wrong with that.

Not that I'm planning on making a superhero hack or anything, but this stuff is very fun to think about.

Cyphoderus fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Aug 19, 2012

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ThreeStep
Nov 5, 2009

Lemon Curdistan posted:

Crap, you're right. :downs: Let's try this again.

When you access a secure system, roll +cyber. On a 10+, choose 2; on a 7-9, choose 1; on a miss, choose 1, but security is already on its way and you have to leave now:
- You have admin rights and can do whatever you want with the system.
- The hack is quick - you've got plenty of time left.
- The hack is careful - they won't be able to pin it on you when they find the intrusion.

I'm seeing a bit of a weird contradiction with a miss meaning "security is already on its way and you have to leave now" yet being able to choose "you have plenty of time left."

These are all awesome ideas. I was brainstorming a cyberpunk-ish AW hack too, but it was more Deus Ex-inspired and based on everyone being cybered up to varying degrees.

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