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You could just leave the consequences of a miss unspecific, like with the Open Your Mind move. A miss always tells the MC to make as hard of a move as they want, and keeping it open lets the fiction drive things more fully. mllaneza posted:I don't see a problem with putting custom gear in playbooks. AW itself does it and so do some of the hacks out there; the Rogue Trader: Apocalypse hack has custom gear, new options for gangs and a shipbuilding system I'm totally stealing for Spinward Worlds. Oh, the only "problem" is not being able to do a straight fluff re-write, and needing to decide on the mechanics of new custom gear, if you wanted the characters to have default access to it, rather than needing to describe what they need, and then wander through the hardhold's markets, or build it. I wasn't trying to say that one shouldn't do that, just that it'd take more effort. Personally, my instinct with hacks is to start a game with a "Minimum Viable Product," with as few changes as possible, then make up new stuff to as oddities come up in play, then after the fact formalize the changes into a new document. Design can be fun, but I'm suspicious of everything I write that isn't built on feedback from play.
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Aug 19, 2012 20:22
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Doc Hawkins posted:Oh, the only "problem" is not being able to do a straight fluff re-write, and needing to decide on the mechanics of new custom gear, if you wanted the characters to have default access to it, rather than needing to describe what they need, and then wander through the hardhold's markets, or build it. I wasn't trying to say that one shouldn't do that, just that it'd take more effort. Personally, my instinct with hacks is to start a game with a "Minimum Viable Product," with as few changes as possible, then make up new stuff to as oddities come up in play, then after the fact formalize the changes into a new document. Design can be fun, but I'm suspicious of everything I write that isn't built on feedback from play. I have to agree with keeping it small. Even adapting one playbook that you mainly lifted from another set is a lot of work. I think I'm going to hold the hack I'm working on to just five playbooks until a playtester complains they need a new one.
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Aug 19, 2012 20:31
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ThreeStep posted:I'm seeing a bit of a weird contradiction with a miss meaning "security is already on its way and you have to leave now" yet being able to choose "you have plenty of time left." I think the idea is that "plenty of time" is subjective here. You get the hack done nice and fast so while you know security is on their way you still have time to get out of there before they show up while getting more or less what you came for.
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Aug 19, 2012 20:42
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Doc Hawkins posted:Huh. That's a really good point. I've been watching the Ghost in the Shell TV show lately, and you're absolutely right, a lot of the moves map one-to-one. "Opening your brain" is doing research or hacking security cameras, just like anyone can do. Looking at the Brainer playbook, the only move I would really change is probably In Brain Puppet Strings, and even then, I would probably knock it down so you don't have to have physical intimacy, but be within close range, such as following them on the streets or sitting near them in a cyber-cafe/restaurant/bar. Using someone else as a relay is avoidable as you just have your player take brain relay and call it a remote broadcast station or some such. I think the focus on the game, if I run it, is going to be how the characters see and change the world from outside lights and technology of the Megacorporate holds.
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Aug 19, 2012 20:44
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:I think the idea is that "plenty of time" is subjective here. You get the hack done nice and fast so while you know security is on their way you still have time to get out of there before they show up while getting more or less what you came for. Yeah, this is exactly the idea.
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Aug 19, 2012 21:23
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Lemon Curdistan posted:
Good point, I'll adjust that. Also, I'm glad everyone likes Wired. I've got some other good playbooks moves, especially for the Fixed, that I will post later Edit: what other consequences could there be? "Your gear is not damaged" maybe? Scrape fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Aug 20, 2012 |
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Aug 20, 2012 06:13
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I was wondering which playbooks would adapt best to a cyberpunk setting and I had a momentary stumbling block with the Chopper. And then I had a wonderful, wonderful idea. We've all seen "Akira" here, right? 
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Aug 20, 2012 07:44
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InfiniteJesters posted:We've all seen "Akira" here, right? Or played Shadowrun, which has an archetype dedicated to remote-controlling drones/blowing all your cash on turning a panel van into a tank. 
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Aug 20, 2012 14:28
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InfiniteJesters posted:I was wondering which playbooks would adapt best to a cyberpunk setting and I had a momentary stumbling block with the Chopper. Cyberpunk 2020 also had the Nomad, which fits a Chopper pretty well.
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Aug 20, 2012 15:02
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InfiniteJesters posted:I was wondering which playbooks would adapt best to a cyberpunk setting and I had a momentary stumbling block with the Chopper. Go Ganger. All about speed, thrills and mashing people's face in. The only playbook I can think of that would difficult to port over is The Marmot.
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Aug 20, 2012 16:38
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You know, we've talked about Apocalypse World, Dungeon World, even Monsterhearts, but we haven't talked about Monster of the Week yet. MotW is paced a little differently from the other *World games. See, while the other games are designed to "keep going", MotW is more episodic. Instead of Fronts that are designed to keep threatening the PCs over long periods of time, WotW uses Mysteries as its framework. Mysteries are basically the monster that the PCs are rolling into town to kill, so they're not designed to be long-term threats. Yeah, they have countdown clocks and such, but they're intended to be paced faster. Mysteries are the monsters, but are also the "boss" monster's minions, the red herrings, and the Weakness. A big bad's Weakness is the condition that has to be met before it can be killed once and for all. It might be something physical (silver bullets for a werewolf), or more conceptual (a ritual must be performed to make the demon manifest). Of course, the quickened pace means that fights can be pretty deadly, and for that we have the Luck mechanic. Each character starts with 6 Luck boxes. You can mark off a box at any point to do one of two things: Decrease a wound you just suffered to 0-harm. After you roll, retroactively change the result to a 12. Pretty cool, huh? Especially since WotW has the "upgrade basic moves" advances. Problem is, if you use up all your Luck, the Keeper is allowed to make hard moves at you as much as he wants. In addition, some playbooks have things trigger when your Luck runs out (like Here's the thing, though. Luck doesn't refresh. At all. Let's face it. Hunting monsters for a living is not a job with long-term prospects. Even if you're The Professional and have the backing of a full-blown government agency, odds are you're not going to be wasting time worrying about your 401K. Sooner or later, the job's gonna catch up with you. You know how Fronts are the countdown clocks for the campaign; it's the mechanic the MC uses to drive the action in the game. Luck, however, is the countdown clock for the characters, driven by the characters. Everybody's story ends. It's just a matter of when. How long do you think you can hold out?
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Aug 20, 2012 16:40
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Tasoth posted:Go Ganger. All about speed, thrills and mashing people's face in. The only playbook I can think of that would difficult to port over is The Marmot. The Cyberdaemon: you are an AI construct that lives in the Matrix. You investigate poo poo. e; so basically MotW is Supernatural World? 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Aug 20, 2012 |
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Aug 20, 2012 19:17
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Lemon Curdistan posted:The Cyberdaemon: you are an AI construct that lives in the Matrix. You investigate poo poo. That's actually more fitting than what I had in mind. I figured Uplifted Animal would be what I went with.
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Aug 20, 2012 19:43
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Lemon Curdistan posted:The Cyberdaemon: you are an AI construct that lives in the Matrix. You investigate poo poo. Haha, you eat input instead of food, and 'sex' makes you likely to bud off a bunch of hybrid 'children' who spread out into the net, that's perfect. You might need to adjust the hardboiled detective moves, though. I mean, they're hilarious, and perfect for a hardboiled detective, but that really doesn't seem like an inherent theme for a wintermute.
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Aug 20, 2012 23:33
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Tasoth posted:Go Ganger. All about speed, thrills and mashing people's face in. The only playbook I can think of that would difficult to port over is The Marmot. Ein from Cowboy Bebop? Edit: wait, just got to the Cyberdaemon, that's even cooler. SlimGoodbody fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Aug 20, 2012 |
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Aug 20, 2012 23:36
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Doc Hawkins posted:You might need to adjust the hardboiled detective moves, though. I mean, they're hilarious, and perfect for a hardboiled detective, but that really doesn't seem like an inherent theme for a wintermute. Self-improvement: when you spend time modifying your core programming, assimilate all of your data and roll+data assimilated. On a 10+, the MC chooses 3. On a 79, the MC chooses 2: You maintain some unassimilated data after all. Keep 1-data. No NPCs gently caress with your poo poo. You have strange dreams. Open your brain to the matrix, but roll+wired+data assimilated(!). Your subroutines grapple with your experiences. Mark experience. Your subroutines piece things together. Get 1-clue. On a miss, the MC chooses 1 anyway, but you wake up starved for input. Take -1 ongoing until you spend significant time browsing the matrix in search of new experiences. When you miss a session, you automatically self-improve. The MC rolls for you. I'm the matrix: when you take harm, make this move instead of making the normal harm move. Roll+harm taken. On a 10+, choose 2. On a 79, choose 1: Its not so bad. Take -1 harm. Someone present lets slip 1-clue. Take +1 forward against your attacker. Treat a miss on this move as a 79 hit on the normal harm move. On it: you get moonlighting and 2 gigs: data-hunting (1-data / starved for input) and investigating (1-clue / in too deep). You can add 1-juggling and an obligation gig if you like. We don't go there anymore: when you trawl the seedy depths of the matrix, roll+cool. On a 10+, choose 3. On a 79, choose 2: You get 1-data. Someone present lets slip 1-clue. You dont end up in a difficult sitch. You dont suffer the after-effects (-1 ongoing for the entire next day). On a miss, hell, choose 1 anyway. Search algorithms: when you sniff out a clue or follow a lead, roll+sharp. On a 10+, the MC chooses 1: An accomplice or witness confesses their guilty conscience to you. The guilty party confesses to you or attacks you. Choose 2 from the 79 list below. On a 79, the MC chooses 1: You uncover the next clue. Get 1-clue. Someone threatens you or acts guilty. Someone leaves you a message or asks to talk with you in private. Someone offers you a bribe worth 1-barter. On a miss, you get nothing but the attention of bad people. Yeah, so it's not perfect and it could do with some work, but it maps surprisingly well. Not so much Wintermute as an AI construct designed to investigate stuff on the net. e; If you and another character have (cyber) sex, you both take -1 forward for shame, unless theyre also a cyberdaemon or its true love. If you and another character have (cyber) sex, roll+current data. On a hit, you scan enough of them to spawn a new construct. On a 10+, the construct is a fully-functional merge of you and them released into the matrix, but it develops its own personality. On a 7-9, it is merely a keepsake; it parrots a few soundbytes but that's it. If they also have data, they might spawn a construct too, on the same terms. e2; the biggest obstacle here is how do you have a character with no physical presence in AW? It can't be threatened in normal fights unless you're attacking the PCs' base. At least in "cyber-combat" you can have harm represent damage to the PCs' reputation/accounts/whatever. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Aug 21, 2012 |
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Aug 21, 2012 10:07
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What are the limits of the seduce/manipulate move? I have a character in my PbP attempting to use it to get somebody to stop picking a fight and I don't think it works the way they're trying to use it e.g. trying to reason with a person. Hell, is there a mechanically supported way to reason with people in AW? Tone-wise it seems out place; if sex, violence, and power (backed by more violence) are the only ways to exert influence the system seems much tighter.
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Aug 21, 2012 16:12
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If you're doing an AI character, I would suggest letting them just have some form of physical body. I think I told my player who is interested in being a Skinner that they could just be a rogue corp AI that was used to determine what was popular fashion that had found a vat grown body. Given they're not a part of the corp that spawned them anymore and it's a vat grown body, there is incentive to not get murdered rapidly. Also, allowing a Savvyhead, Chopper, Operator or Driver apply the remote or alive tags to their equipment would make for good riggers and such that are toting around robots, AIs or remote controlled equipment. Tollymain posted:What are the limits of the seduce/manipulate move? I have a character in my PbP attempting to use it to get somebody to stop picking a fight and I don't think it works the way they're trying to use it e.g. trying to reason with a person. Sounds like they can do it. Manipulate is anytime you use something other than sex to get someone to do what you want. If they want them to stop being an aggressive rear end but don't want to use the threat of violence (Going Aggro), Manipulate is your best option.
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Aug 21, 2012 16:20
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You can definitely use it to get someone to stop picking a fight, but probably not by reasoning with them. By offering them something, yeah. To use the move, you need leverage over the NPC - a threat or a promise, that would make them want to go along with it. Seduction obviously gives the most blatant promise, that of sex, but as long as you're offering them something they want, it works. If the threat is violence, you need to decide if this is Manipulate Someone or Go Aggro. If you're just talking to someone, without leverage over them, then it's just talking. You determine whether the NPC will agree or disagree based on how you've played them, and what you think will be interesting and real.
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Aug 21, 2012 16:23
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So, I finally finished reading Dungeon World and am starting my way through trying to convert it into a Persona game. I want to get a bit more done before I start posting it, and I might end up dropping the *World system in the long run anyway. My question is, should I post my progress in here or should I make a thread for the hack in general? If I switch systems, obviously I wouldn't want to clog this lovely thread up with my poo poo.
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Aug 21, 2012 17:40
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:So, I finally finished reading Dungeon World and am starting my way through trying to convert it into a Persona game. I want to get a bit more done before I start posting it, and I might end up dropping the *World system in the long run anyway. Personally, I'm completely okay with people posting hackwork in here.
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Aug 21, 2012 17:45
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I would say either here or the Homebrew thread. But I don't follow the homebrew thread as closely (not sure if it's even still around), so I think you should post it here.
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Aug 21, 2012 17:52
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GOONS ARE MEAN
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Yeah, def post it here.BryanChavez posted:You can definitely use it to get someone to stop picking a fight, but probably not by reasoning with them. By offering them something, yeah. To use the move, you need leverage over the NPC - a threat or a promise, that would make them want to go along with it. Seduction obviously gives the most blatant promise, that of sex, but as long as you're offering them something they want, it works. If the threat is violence, you need to decide if this is Manipulate Someone or Go Aggro. Exactly this, except I doubt I'd accept a threat of violence to be a tool of Manipulate: it's supposed to be something they want which you can promise them. You could maybe just be holding a gun on someone and also be calmly promising them something, in which case Manipulate away.
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Aug 21, 2012 17:52
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Sounds like I'll just start in here, then. I'll make up a big post here in a few hours once I've got a bit more of it pinned down. It's definitely looking like a lot of work, but I figure if I'm going to do a hack I might as well not half-rear end it.
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Aug 21, 2012 17:56
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Doc Hawkins posted:Exactly this, except I doubt I'd accept a threat of violence to be a tool of Manipulate: it's supposed to be something they want which you can promise them. You could maybe just be holding a gun on someone and also be calmly promising them something, in which case Manipulate away. For manipulating, you'd have to offer them something, but I could see that "something" being along the lines of "we have to get out of here now before more guards show up". In that case, what's being offered is a way out.
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Aug 21, 2012 17:58
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Doc Hawkins posted:Exactly this, except I doubt I'd accept a threat of violence to be a tool of Manipulate: it's supposed to be something they want which you can promise them. You could maybe just be holding a gun on someone and also be calmly promising them something, in which case Manipulate away. The book definitely allows for threats of violence being a point of leverage, but I'd agree that there need to be extenuating circumstances to allow for a Manipulate instead of Go Aggro. And you can always mix together a threat with a promise, yeah - the Skinner who promises that the Gunlugger won't give you any more poo poo is also threatening that if you don't go along with what they want, they most certainly will.
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Aug 21, 2012 18:02
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:So, I finally finished reading Dungeon World and am starting my way through trying to convert it into a Persona game. I want to get a bit more done before I start posting it, and I might end up dropping the *World system in the long run anyway. I'd say post it here, every custom move furthers the discussion of the system. I love love love reading *World hacks anyway, such a versatile and awesome game.
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Aug 21, 2012 18:33
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Evil Mastermind posted:Pointing a gun in someone's face to get them to stop doing something Right, I was imagining a situation where the guns werent really central to the interaction. Like, when the Bride in Kill Bill pt. 2 convinces the assassin to leave her alone because she's pregnant. ...though now that I think about it, that's not really an offer either. I guess the rules only help you manipulate people using things that they want from you, unless you're the Touchstone. The Bride should probably be a playbook. Lots of left-for-dead avengers in fiction, it'd be fun to play one.
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Aug 22, 2012 00:05
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Doc Hawkins posted:Right, I was imagining a situation where the guns werent really central to the interaction. Like, when the Bride in Kill Bill pt. 2 convinces the assassin to leave her alone because she's pregnant. She's offering a chance to not murder an innocent baby. e: Hmmm... When you go aggro or manipulate someone know knows where your Target is, you get +1. This is between you and me - When you confront someone who wronged you or his lieutenants, roll +Hard. On a 10+ pick two, 7-9 pick one.
Evil Mastermind fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Aug 22, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 00:47
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Doc Hawkins posted:...though now that I think about it, that's not really an offer either. I guess the rules only help you manipulate people using things that they want from you, unless you're the Touchstone. It might be, as EM mentioned. I think, like the Hack n' Slash example in Dungeon World that swinging a mundane sword at a dragon or ghost isn't Hack n' Slash, whether something is Leverage or not is a conversation between GM and player. I think the GM should be generous in this conversation, especially since that could just be indicated by a miss on the manipulation or parley or whatever. If the threat were sufficiently escalated and properly broadcast with soft moves, a good hard move if the Bride rolled a miss, and appropriately brutal to AW, might be a particularly villainous blow to the belly. edit: After reading recent goings-on in the Notable Stories thread, I feel that I should mention that I would only feel such a move to be appropriate to AW and similar games (or Kill Bill itself) that focus on the harshness and scarcity of such an environment and the people it breeds, and, through the Special Move rules, deal directly with those sorts of issues. Even villains in heroic fantasy shouldn't be doing things like that. edit 2: And a good roll from an Angel should clear it right up. Lunatic Pathos fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Aug 22, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 01:30
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In my games, the difference is categorized by the means you wish your will to be imposed. All three may have similar effects, but the fallout will be different. If you're just trying to get someone to do something then you use Manipulate. ("Hey, Joe, toss me some jingle!") If you're trying to get someone to do something with sex, you use Seduce. ("Hey there, beautiful!" *makeouts* "Can I have a few jingle?") If you're trying to get someone to do something with the threat of violence, you use Go Aggro ("GIVE ME THE JINGLE OR I START SHOOTING!") If you're trying to take something with the threat of violence or out-and-out kill someone, you use Sieze By Force. (*Joe is shot. Jingle is taken.*)
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Aug 22, 2012 02:11
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jonthegm posted:In my games, the difference is categorized by the means you wish your will to be imposed. All three may have similar effects, but the fallout will be different. The important thing about Go Aggro is that you gotta commit to the violence if you don't get your way. If you are threatening to shoot a guy if he doesn't give you something, you have to be okay with shooting him if he doesn't give it up. If you aren't, then it's not Go Aggro.
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Aug 22, 2012 02:26
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Evil Mastermind posted:She's offering a chance to not murder an innocent baby. I'd do this with +Cool. It's not your character flipping poo poo and bellowing angrily at someone that it's personal, it's them stepping forward, weapon held down and ready and calling them out to their face. That's about as Cool as it gets.
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Aug 22, 2012 02:36
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Tasoth posted:I'd do this with +Cool. It's not your character flipping poo poo and bellowing angrily at someone that it's personal, it's them stepping forward, weapon held down and ready and calling them out to their face. That's about as Cool as it gets. I'll admit, I couldn't decide between Hard or Cool for that. I looked at it as you're utterly focused on taking this rear end in a top hat down, and not giving two shits about anything else. Sounds pretty Hard to me. I also came up with another idea: when you create your character, you pick your Target. The Target is the guy ultimately responsible for what happened to you, and is the focus of your revenge. Tell the MC what happened between you and your Target; he'll write the guy up as a Front. Your Target works like a normal Front, with two exceptions: 1) The Target will have a few Lieutenants. There are guys who enforce the Target's agendas and do some of his dirty work. They'll all be tricky to get to, and have a gang or two you'll have to kill your way through. Lieutenants might be small Fronts on their own, too. 2) The Target doesn't have a countdown clock. Instead, he has a Lead on you. Lead starts at 6. Every time you defeat a Lieutenant or learn an important bit of information about the Target, you reduce the Lead by one. When the Lead reaches zero, you can finally confront the Target once and for all. If you confront your Target before you close the Lead, then he'll get away somehow. Trapdoor, body dragged away to a secret medical facility, whatever.
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Aug 22, 2012 03:00
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Evil Mastermind posted:When the Lead reaches zero, you can finally confront the Target once and for all. If you confront your Target before you close the Lead, then he'll get away somehow. Trapdoor, body dragged away to a secret medical facility, whatever. This is a really neat idea, but I think it bothers me that it might not match the fiction. Like, what if the player sets up a situation where they can take down their Target, regardless of the Lead? My AW instinct would be to let the fiction take over and allow them their victory, Lead number be damned.
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Aug 22, 2012 03:22
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That's a good point. I was thinking more of modeling the genre and combining it with the countdown clock mechanic, but yeah that feels forced. I still like the idea of having to work your way "up the ladder", though. How about "when you confront your Target, you take -Lead ongoing until one of you is defeated or withdraws"?
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Aug 22, 2012 03:36
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Evil Mastermind posted:That's a good point. I was thinking more of modeling the genre and combining it with the countdown clock mechanic, but yeah that feels forced. I still like the idea of having to work your way "up the ladder", though. Could just leave the target undefined until you hit zero lead. Reflecting that you have a general idea of the person who did it, but nothing concrete. Good reference for this would be Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang, Dark City and Hot Fuzz. In all those movies, the protagonists start with or pick up on a target early on, but don't work it out until the end. And then everything goes to hell. EDIT: What you could define at the start of the game is what they did to you. Did they leave you for dead? Did their goons ride in, destroy and/or violate your family and leave everything in flames? Did they kill a loved one while you were away and now you're back? That kind of thing.
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Aug 22, 2012 05:03
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Evil Mastermind posted:That's a good point. I was thinking more of modeling the genre and combining it with the countdown clock mechanic, but yeah that feels forced. I still like the idea of having to work your way "up the ladder", though. I could totally see this. Also, Tasoth's idea is neat too. Maybe your Target could be defined, even, but you just have no idea where he/she is until the final Lieutenant falls and gives you that last clue. As long as you don't have a chance of meeting them in person then you're not plot-armoring them. They just work behind the scenes until you uncover their hidey hole.
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Aug 22, 2012 06:01
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Yeah, but sometimes it's exactly the opposite, and The Fucker ("Target" is way too dry) is obvious, but your history with them isn't, and there's something besides a roster of goons that keeps you from killing them right away. Look at Once Upon a Time in the West and The Quick and the Dead. I do think the -Lead ongoing idea can do something super-hot with that idea. It's possible that this kind of thing just isn't possible in an RPG without somehow stealing from Mountain Witch. 
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Aug 22, 2012 06:07
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Is any form of Monster of the Week available anywhere yet?
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Aug 22, 2012 06:17
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