|
Evil Mastermind posted:For those of you who want to read up on Dungeon World, someone made a web-readable book pulled right from the GitHub. So now you can see what all the fuss is about. Thank you for this. I was trying to decide if I wanted to drop the money for a PDF version of one of the books so I could see how interested I was, and being able to read through even a mod of Apocalypse World for free is a big help. I'm definitely finding it interesting so far, though if I ever ran a game it'd be PbP and that does seem like it'd be a lot harder to do than traditional.
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2012 19:55
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 15:20 |
|
|
Man, the more I read about *World games the more interesting it sounds. I do have a question, though. I've been wanting to run a Persona game (I'll explain what that is if nobody knows), and been looking at a couple systems. But now, well, ApocWorld and Dungeon World both sound like they'd be fun for that too with a little modding and hacking done. What do you guys with more experience think? Persona's a lot about the socialization aspect, and it seems like that could be expressed really well in the *World system.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2012 23:32
|
|
|
sighnoceros posted:I think they would be a great fit for a Persona game. As said before, you aren't going to have realistic tactical combat but I think that's fine for that style of game. I'm not sure how to best model the Personas (it would depend on if you have it set up so everyone has a single Persona or they can switch them, whatever...), but I could see them modeled how the Druid is in Dungeon World. Thank you so much for this, and I'll absolutely keep you updated. At the moment I've been looking at converting Magical Burst to Persona, but finding myself uneasy about it. A *World game, especially Dungeon World, sounds so much better and more fun. What I'm actually thinking of doing is mimicking the games a little, in having the human aspects do a fair bit/most of the combat with Persona being called out for special moves/spells and really cool poo poo. Though it's tempting to draw on more of the feel of P4: Arena too. I'll have to decide, though I can already say I'd probably tack the Persona summoning as a bonus on top of whatever other class anybody took so nobody'd be locked into being a Druid or something. I've got the PDF off that site on my Kindle, so I'm definitely going to read up on Dungeon World and dive into that. I already have a good plan for a Social Link system that I think'll be great fun.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 15, 2012 00:59
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:E: more generally, please, when making a hack, ask yourself what it will be about, and what the characters will do, and how any given rule will support those goals, discarding any for whom you can't come up with a good answer, and choosing a different base-game if you get rid of everything. AW is a great game and eminently hackable, but that doesn't make it perfect for every possible use. This really is a good point, and what I'm trying to do as much as I can. I've kind of been looking through several systems and mulling over both how I feel about the system in general, how much I'd need to change to actually make it feel right, and why I'd need to change something in a system. So far, Dungeon World is actually looking pretty good for what I actually want to do with a Persona game but I will look into the others suggested as well. If I think I need more help in general, I might actually start a thread for it.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 15, 2012 03:54
|
|
|
Don't the choices contradict the failure? You can still choose one on fail, and one of the options is "nobody knows you're in the system" but yet security is still coming. I guess the fiction could fill in the details, I suppose.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2012 17:24
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:I thought of this, but the idea is actually that on a miss you still get what you came for, you just don't have the time to do anything else unless you picked "the hack is quick;" they know that someone is accessing the network from the location you're currently at, so you have to leave the place you're at or suffer the consequences. I was more talking about "the hack is careful" option. As written it specifically notes that nobody knows you're in the system.. Untraceable is obvious, yes, that so long as you get out in time you're clear. And quick would let you get away from security more easily but probably leave evidence behind. But the apparent point of "the hack is careful" is to keep anyone from knowing you're there in the first place, which contradicts the failure automatically having security know you're there. I mean, I guess you could just make players pick something else but I always find that distasteful personally.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2012 18:37
|
|
|
ThreeStep posted:I'm seeing a bit of a weird contradiction with a miss meaning "security is already on its way and you have to leave now" yet being able to choose "you have plenty of time left." I think the idea is that "plenty of time" is subjective here. You get the hack done nice and fast so while you know security is on their way you still have time to get out of there before they show up while getting more or less what you came for.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2012 20:42
|
|
|
So, I finally finished reading Dungeon World and am starting my way through trying to convert it into a Persona game. I want to get a bit more done before I start posting it, and I might end up dropping the *World system in the long run anyway. My question is, should I post my progress in here or should I make a thread for the hack in general? If I switch systems, obviously I wouldn't want to clog this lovely thread up with my poo poo.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2012 17:40
|
|
|
Sounds like I'll just start in here, then. I'll make up a big post here in a few hours once I've got a bit more of it pinned down. It's definitely looking like a lot of work, but I figure if I'm going to do a hack I might as well not half-rear end it.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2012 17:56
|
|
|
ravenkult posted:Maybe I should finish the thing then. It's basically B.P.R.D: The RPG, but everyone is possessed by a demon. HitTheTargets posted:My hope is to one day make a mecha game where pilot skills and robot abilities are each half a playbook. Hot-blooded snipers and girly girl Supers, huzzah! I want both of these things, right now. Why the hell aren't you both making these? I don't want to hear any petty excuses about jobs, or loved ones, or needing "food" and "water". In other news, my lazy rear end is slowly working through making Dungeon World look vaguely like Persona World.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 28, 2012 03:07
|
|
|
mllaneza posted:By add-ons I mean that these stats aren't part of the standard set of stats and most particularly aren't going to be balanced in the various statlines available. They're extra. I'm actually doing something similar myself, using Persona (3, specifically) social stats. I haven't hammered out the details but they'll tie to a different progression, deal with some different things, and have more impact on interpersonal relationships and Social Links.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 28, 2012 20:26
|
|
|
HitTheTargets posted:The original idea was for OYW Gundam, actually. And I separated the two parts with the idea that the mechs would be swappable between missions, for mid-series upgrades or else just because. If I don't go generic to take advantage of * World's story gaming strengths the trick will be figuring out a balance between player specialness and the grim capriciousness of death in a Tomino story. I'd say try and go generic, instead of leaning on any specific Real Robot story. Have references and homages and poo poo, sure, but if you go generic there's a decent chance you might be able to make it a full product. My only regret in trying a Persona hack is that if I ever wanted to sell it, I'd bare minimum have to get Atlus to grant their blessing.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 28, 2012 22:53
|
|
|
You never know what can get pulled off, once in a great while. More importantly, if you avoid tying it to any properties if it gets finished it could become something marketable to at least some people. And if it doesn't get finished, well, it's no more or less of a loss either way.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 28, 2012 23:07
|
|
|
MadRhetoric posted:Why not just use 'em as your primary stats? You've got 5: Diligence, Courage, Understanding, Knowledge, Charisma. Charisma and Knowledge (or Understanding) are pretty easy Hot and Sharp. Courage and Diligence can both eat parts of Hard and Cool and whichever one of Knowledge or Understanding you didn't use for Sharp would be Weird or work like D-World's Int. Yeah, looking through straight AW that actually occurred to me. What I've done is actually cut Dungeon World back down to five stats (Strength, Agility, Endurance, Magic, Luck) based on the five combat stats in the games (or, at least, P3 and P4) and so far it's working pretty well. Int and Wis combine smoothly into Magic given 90% of what they do in-system is magic anyway. The only oddity is Charisma into Luck, but if nothing else I can hand wave that by explaining Luck as sort of a The Secret-esque positive energies field because I hate happiness. So, going further off that with stats, I'm looking at just doing the trio of social stats in Persona 3 (gently caress you P4 and your five goddamn stats) at Charm, Academics, and Courage. All I've done with those so far is change some of the less fight-y basic moves to run off them, like Spout Lore using Academics and Discern Realities using Charm. For Persona, I'm basically ripping out Druid's Shapeshifter and changing it to basically be a summon. Persona will have a list of moves and spells of their own they can use, but everything they do runs off your normal stats and none of their new moves and poo poo override anything you've already got. I considered using Animal Companion, out of Ranger, but I like how Shapeshifter deepens the connection between Persona and User by giving them the same stats. There's a bit more I've done, and hopefully within a few days I'll have a (half-assed) PDF I can post and get some feedback on. MadRhetoric posted:And I really want to make a sorta JRPG heartbreaker based on hearsay and a heavily modded version of the -World system. I'm talking screwing with the probabilities, changing around the tiers of success, getting rid of the straight vertical advancement Moves and then vomiting the bastard child of Unknown Armies, Nasuverse, MegaTen and Baudillard's simulacra theory all over it. Are you...Are you talking about a TTRPG dating sim? Because I'm not sure how I feel about that.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2012 01:06
|
|
|
MadRhetoric posted:Monsterhearts exists and is an A-World hack; how do you feel about that? You also gain power and experience through loving in A-World. poo poo, it would probably be really easy to make an Eroge World hack, if you used Nasu and Muv-Luv as your base. EDIT: And since you're basing your game off of P3 and P4, Doc Hawkins kinda has you dead to rights. Okay, okay. You guys got me. Though I will admit I was thinking more straight visual novel dating sim, like Muv-Luv or something, then Persona. But yeah, basing it off P3 and P4...I don't have much room to talk. Also the fact that I'd probably play a visual novel-style TTRPG. I'll admit that I somehow totally glazed over the entire loving mechanic in AW, but I didn't read most of it either. That actually sounds pretty interesting. I love the poo poo out of urban/modern fantasy. All myths are true and all that jazz. Anime that up to eleven and you're going to have something absolutely mad, hopefully in a good way. There's a very good chance I'll end up going with something more like that, using the P4 stats and merging the combat and social aspects. For now I'm mostly keeping them separate because Tradition. I've literally got nothing but free time right now, though, so hammering this out and then throwing it out isn't a big deal. All it means is that I get a little experience at loving with systems.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2012 17:42
|
|
|
Personally, I like the whole "only one person in each role" thing. It can be a bit annoying if you're playing a big game with a lot of players, but with just a couple it encourages it away from everyone going for badass Fighters or Gunluggers.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2012 21:41
|
|
|
mllaneza posted:The role protection in AW is mostly a narrative conceit based on the characters being the paragons of whatever it is they do. Dungeon World doesn't have this, so the underlying engine works without it. I was going to argue with you on this, but come to think of it you're right. Though, honestly, I actually like applying it to Dungeon World too. Hell, I'd consider applying it to D&D or something just because it helps ensure some party flexibility. My hack'll probably use the same role protection, despite being based on DW.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2012 21:48
|
|
|
mllaneza posted:Make all your playbooks cool enough that nobody thinks getting their second choice sucks. This is basically what I'm aiming for. More importantly, I'm trying to make each class cool enough that I would want to play it. I'm exactly the type to always pick Fighter and stick with it, and never play a Cleric or something. I figure if I make the playbook in a way where I'd be excited to play it myself, then hopefully so will other people.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2012 22:08
|
|
|
I see where you're coming from, Rhetoric, but ultimately I think it's just a difference of opinion. What I like about it is that it makes the The part of the playbook names important. You're not A Battlebabe. You're The Battlebabe. There might be a thousand more like you, but at the end of the day you take it a step further. You're on a different level. I like how that makes the characters feel special, even in DungWorld, unlike say D&D or something where your paladin is just another paladin like every other paladin and it's totally possible for any paladin in the world to reach the same level as you. Even if the inhabitants of the world don't recognize it (yet), the world itself has.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2012 03:43
|
|
|
MadRhetoric posted:Exactly. If A-World were more distinctly a team game (like Leverage or Guy Ritchie World) (seriously someone make these) it'd make more sense. You know, that's an interesting thought. How would you go about reinforcing the idea of a team in a World game? Story is easy, obviously. You can fiction up anything you goddamn well please. But mechanically? How would you encourage that sense of being a team? Honestly, thinking about it, I'm not sure I've played a TTRPG that's given me a sense of "you're part of a team".
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2012 17:08
|
|
|
Tollymain posted:I hear Mouse Guard is great for that. Not that I've ever had the chance to play it I have heard good things about Mouse Guard, but yeah not the right thread for it. I was more brainstorming how to get that feeling from a World game. InfiniteJesters posted:As for ApocWorld, I'm thinking combo moves. To whit: This is an interesting idea. Maybe both general combo moves, and then perhaps also dual or triple tech style moves? I'm not as familiar with ApocWorld, but with the more free and open flow of combat having each playbook share a move that's something like: When you and your Gunlugger buddy both Seize By Force roll+Whatever. On a 10+ you both do something loving awesome, and surviving enemies are stunned by it. On a 7-9 same as 10+ but no stun. On a 6- you gently caress up and everybody laughs at you.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2012 17:44
|
|
. This is a little off-topic though, Mouse Guard discussion fits better in the general Indie Games thread.
|
InfiniteJesters posted:I was actually thinking of Chrono Trigger when I posted that. I actually have something like this planned for my Persona hack. Basically, the way I'm handling Social Links is as a role playing thing and similar to the games. When you spend time with someone, one-on-one, you gain Social Link experience. When you get enough, your bond grows stronger. Which is all a nice way of saying "play nice with others and eventually the GM gives you poo poo". Each level of the SL gives you some kind of bonus, which ultimately should be pretty modular for whoever wants to run it. But, I've also been thinking of adding special combo moves for Links at high levels. Now, that would only work for SLs between PCs. NPC links would probably give special super-moves, possibly only at max link, as a reward for spending your time doing something else. Of course, a lot of that is also probably going to basically be homework for players. In PbP it works decently, as players can PM each other or something for some quick story bits and then toss the GM a log. For non-digital, it gets a bit iffier and might require a session here and there (as players want) to kick back and just gently caress around some with personal side stories. The idea, really, is to help build up bonds between the characters and make them feel like both an important part of the world and part of a team of people they actually like. Or at least respect.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2012 18:09
|
|
|
MadRhetoric posted:*-World already has the Bonds mechanic; just use that and be more lenient on them getting it during downtime. Or give them a shonen anime bullshit Move. See, my problem with the Bonds mechanic for what I'm trying to do is that it seems to me like you just say what the Bond is. You say "me and this dude are buddies, because of such-and-such." I want to encourage people to actually play that. Of course, it's not like I'm making it a required part of the game or anything. The way I see it you'd have the Party Social Link, like the SEES or Investigation Group, which would give bonuses just like any other. Stats, gear, etc. But aside from that, which would progress along with the story, nobody would have to gently caress with it at all. If they just all want to be dudes who work together, cool. Maybe I'm weird, though. I like watching bonds forge and grow, instead of just being stated.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2012 18:54
|
|
|
You know, using the old school names for the suits I totally expected you to toss in some major arcana action to go with that. That aside, it sounds interesting. I assume that's a part of character building. Reminds me, some how, of something like PDQ or FATE. Course there's probably a lot more still coming. Really dig the Page through Ace bit.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2012 01:44
|
|
|
Not to throw out every last pretense of this conversation being on topic, but I gotta ask. Are you a game designer, Doc? You just seem to be addressing things as someone who makes game systems for a living. Hell, I'd think you were Vince himself if you didn't refer to him in the third-person. So...Yeah. On the topic of World games, and hacks, I'm hoping things will settle down a bit and I can get enough work on mine down to toss up a Google Doc or something and get some feedback on things as a whole. RyuujinBlueZ fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Aug 31, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2012 03:55
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:Mad Rhetoric is the designer in this conversation. I'm just a living warning of what years of Forge-chat does to a man. Fair enough. My buddy Rhetoric's obviously got mad design chops, there's a reason I'm taking so much of what he's said to heart, but you two were going back and forth like pros and I was curious about cred. Also, I really need to pick up Monster of the Week. It sounds like such a fun "pick up and gently caress around" game. Good for just one shots or dicking off between sessions of something bigger.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2012 20:31
|
|
|
MadRhetoric posted:I want to do that, but Monsterhearts. I'm uneasy about Monsterhearts, but that's mostly because I have an unnatural hatred of vampires. While I can still think of a few things to do with it, dropping ten bucks on it sight unseen doesn't sit with me.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2012 20:36
|
|
|
HitTheTargets posted:*Oh hey, I'm not even into One Piece but a conversion would be great. gently caress you. ...Now I know what I'm doing when I'm done with Persona.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 4, 2012 05:01
|
|
|
MadRhetoric posted:I feel like it should bother me more that this move made me thing of PSG. I've been toying with the idea of running a quick-and-dirty ApocWorld PbP game just for giggles. Some kind of silly one-shot, or series of one-shots (with revolving GM, maybe), because I like the sounds of it. Also I suspect my Persona hack's going to end up looking more like it than DungWorld by the time I'm done with it. Maybe make it faintly Borderlands flavored, in honor of Borderlands 2 coming out soon.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 5, 2012 01:09
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:I would argue that dungeon world should be part of the family too, but one too many times I've seen someone post "dungeon world is great, I can't fukken stand how Baker writes." I'm pretty much the opposite of this, as I actually like how Baker writes over what's in Dungeon World. Don't get me wrong, DungWorld's got some decent poo poo in it but Baker has a lot more charm and enthusiasm. Also, I'll come up with some basics and get a thread tossed up for an ApocWorld game either later tonight or tomorrow. I'll post the link here when I do. Probably do four or five people. Think I'll shoot for a short story, maybe swap GMs after so more people can get a chance to both run and play a game. Or not, we'll see how poo poo goes.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 5, 2012 02:18
|
|
|
Tasoth posted:Then help me fix it. I really don't want that much japanimation. Robo's an American comic book series. Also, the only decent name reference I can think of would be Jenkins. Though that might well be better as a playbook or move.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 8, 2012 04:08
|
|
|
Cyphoderus posted:I am just about to start a recruiting thread for AW. Just gotta do the last bit of rereading the core book. I might well give this a look. I've been trying to do a reread of the core book myself, but I never get more than a few lines in before something comes up and I have to leave.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 12, 2012 01:26
|
|
|
I've got a Borderlands-style PbP ready to go myself. As I mentioned in Cy's, I think I'll wait a few days and see if he ends up with a lot of duplicates. Then when he makes his picks, I can toss up my game and the people who didn't get picked still get a chance to play a game. Everybody wins! Except the people who don't, because this is Apocalypse World we're talking about.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 16, 2012 18:28
|
|
|
ravenkult posted:I might hold off for this game, actually. I don't want to steal people from Cy's game, mind. I'm only bringing it up now as sort of a "don't worry if you don't make the cut, there's another game in the pipes!" deal.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 16, 2012 19:00
|
|
|
Scrape posted:I like the idea of playbooks being largely based on species, instead of being like, "well what race is your Soldier?" AW playbooks are usually iconics, so maybe if you wanna be an Adept, you're gonna be Asari. The Gunlugger analog is a Krogan Warrior, and he is the Official Badass playbook. Maybe a few playbooks have different species options, but like The Engineer is just a Quarian and that's that. I know some people are put off by that, but I like that kind of thing. Or you could do like Dungeon World and make the races amount to little more than unique moves. So a Krogan, Human, and Asari Vanguard are all going to have a unique move that relates to their race in some way.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2012 03:56
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:Apocalypse World rocks because it's tabletop Borderlands. Speaking of, I'll try and have that up sometime either tonight or tomorrow. I would have sooner, but, uh...Well, you see, Borderlands 2 came out and... Anyway, tonight or tomorrow. Maybe even just while I'm eating lunch.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 19, 2012 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 15:20 |
|
|
Oh poo poo guys! I did a thing! A sexy, blue, furry thing! Wait, no. Wrong Pandora. Hopefully this'll be at least half as fun as I think it'll be. Seriously though, thread's over this way if anybody's interested.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 19, 2012 18:07
|
|