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If I absolutely had to play online, I would use something synchronous. Hangouts, maybe, or at least IRC.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:30
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Yeah, MAOCT is exactly what I would use for a fighting-centric Persona hack. It's got relationship-powered attacks and everything. Don't Rest Your Head would probably be my first choice overall for a hack-base, though, what with the questions of exhaustion and pain and insanity already built in. E: more generally, please, when making a hack, ask yourself what it will be about, and what the characters will do, and how any given rule will support those goals, discarding any for whom you can't come up with a good answer, and choosing a different base-game if you get rid of everything. AW is a great game and eminently hackable, but that doesn't make it perfect for every possible use. Let's not make this the new Sorceror. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Aug 15, 2012 |
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Aug 15, 2012 02:07
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Tasoth posted:I'm actually in the process of setting up a Cyberworld AW game. I think the only real changes I had to make was what the Maelstrom really is and the fluff bits for the playbooks. And the Brainer is easy, at least for me, with the Maelstrom being the network almost every human and machine is a part of at all times, they're the individuals that hack people's brains. No muss, no fuss, just some fluff conversion. Huh. That's a really good point. I've been watching the Ghost in the Shell TV show lately, and you're absolutely right, a lot of the moves map one-to-one. "Opening your brain" is doing research or hacking security cameras, just like anyone can do. The big changes seem to be fictional, in that MC Moves prompted by misses would be different. I think you'd also want to change the rules for requiring line of sight and time and intimacy. Maybe give a move or mechanic to Brainers where you can spend hold to use someone you've hacked as a brain relay. Also a move that lets you outright possess people with a high Wired. (e: then again, the characters in the show have super-duper custom gear, so maybe the rules as written work better for the people of The Street) Calling the stat "Wired" is a great idea, Scrape. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Aug 19, 2012 |
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Aug 19, 2012 19:19
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You could just leave the consequences of a miss unspecific, like with the Open Your Mind move. A miss always tells the MC to make as hard of a move as they want, and keeping it open lets the fiction drive things more fully. mllaneza posted:I don't see a problem with putting custom gear in playbooks. AW itself does it and so do some of the hacks out there; the Rogue Trader: Apocalypse hack has custom gear, new options for gangs and a shipbuilding system I'm totally stealing for Spinward Worlds. Oh, the only "problem" is not being able to do a straight fluff re-write, and needing to decide on the mechanics of new custom gear, if you wanted the characters to have default access to it, rather than needing to describe what they need, and then wander through the hardhold's markets, or build it. I wasn't trying to say that one shouldn't do that, just that it'd take more effort. Personally, my instinct with hacks is to start a game with a "Minimum Viable Product," with as few changes as possible, then make up new stuff to as oddities come up in play, then after the fact formalize the changes into a new document. Design can be fun, but I'm suspicious of everything I write that isn't built on feedback from play.
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Aug 19, 2012 20:22
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Lemon Curdistan posted:The Cyberdaemon: you are an AI construct that lives in the Matrix. You investigate poo poo. Haha, you eat input instead of food, and 'sex' makes you likely to bud off a bunch of hybrid 'children' who spread out into the net, that's perfect. You might need to adjust the hardboiled detective moves, though. I mean, they're hilarious, and perfect for a hardboiled detective, but that really doesn't seem like an inherent theme for a wintermute.
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Aug 20, 2012 23:33
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Yeah, def post it here.BryanChavez posted:You can definitely use it to get someone to stop picking a fight, but probably not by reasoning with them. By offering them something, yeah. To use the move, you need leverage over the NPC - a threat or a promise, that would make them want to go along with it. Seduction obviously gives the most blatant promise, that of sex, but as long as you're offering them something they want, it works. If the threat is violence, you need to decide if this is Manipulate Someone or Go Aggro. Exactly this, except I doubt I'd accept a threat of violence to be a tool of Manipulate: it's supposed to be something they want which you can promise them. You could maybe just be holding a gun on someone and also be calmly promising them something, in which case Manipulate away.
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Aug 21, 2012 17:52
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Evil Mastermind posted:Pointing a gun in someone's face to get them to stop doing something Right, I was imagining a situation where the guns werent really central to the interaction. Like, when the Bride in Kill Bill pt. 2 convinces the assassin to leave her alone because she's pregnant. ...though now that I think about it, that's not really an offer either. I guess the rules only help you manipulate people using things that they want from you, unless you're the Touchstone. The Bride should probably be a playbook. Lots of left-for-dead avengers in fiction, it'd be fun to play one.
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Aug 22, 2012 00:05
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Yeah, but sometimes it's exactly the opposite, and The Fucker ("Target" is way too dry) is obvious, but your history with them isn't, and there's something besides a roster of goons that keeps you from killing them right away. Look at Once Upon a Time in the West and The Quick and the Dead. I do think the -Lead ongoing idea can do something super-hot with that idea. It's possible that this kind of thing just isn't possible in an RPG without somehow stealing from Mountain Witch. 
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Aug 22, 2012 06:07
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 I wonder if it's best to word "confrontation" as something like, "when you deny them something." I want it to be obvious how both "No I will not tell you where I know you from," and "Yes I just cut off your boy's arm, boo-yah" count. But yes, awesome, ur the greatest. quote:I have not read Mountain Witch, but I've heard of it. Is it still available? BEHOLD The problem with a pdf, of course, is that you don't get the cards, which really are a required artifact for play, but at least they can be made relatively easily via printing and cutting. It's not like it's an entire cocking deck plus a plastic cockroach (  morningstar!).
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Aug 22, 2012 19:49
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:You're just a sideshow: You have 2-armor against attacks from people other than the Fucker or his Lieutenants. This doesn't stack with any other armor. That is ludicrously powerful, though I like the concept. Does a Vengant really fight against people unrelated to the Fucker that often? I imagine them as having some kind of "social" armor bonus, that makes it harder for people to distract them from their path.
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Aug 22, 2012 20:07
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Steal from the Hoarder's hoard rules, I'd suggest. Your need for revenge pushes you to do poo poo, you can't just walk away or lay down your pain.
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Aug 22, 2012 20:10
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The armor bonus doesn't stack. Though I agree that it's high.
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Aug 23, 2012 04:01
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When you put it like that, I think I might find it more interesting as a conditional NOT TO BE hosed WITH. e: wait, that's dumb, gang-fighting revengers could just take the real thing as a move from another playbook. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 04:12
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The special move should add one Lead.
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Aug 24, 2012 18:06
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The Special Move. I don't think you added one yet?
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Aug 24, 2012 18:18
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Make it so the Fucker has to be another PC. Problem solved! E: but seriously, I love that part in the mountain witch, where if you draw the right card, you can tell someone, "actually, you're the one who burned everyone I ever loved to ash, and now you're going to answer for it." Actually, that kinda fits with what happens in The Quick and the Dead: I can totally imagine Sharon Stone's player going around the table and choosing which PCs participated in The Awful Thing. E2: me no read good 
Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Aug 24, 2012 |
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Aug 24, 2012 22:10
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Yeah, I think it's basically just a matter of having several significant Landscape fronts. Especially fitting would probably be Breeding Pit and Fortress. Also, as it says in Advanced Fuckery: Create custom peripheral moves to bring out your own vision of Apocalypse World. You may want a variation on the psychic maelstrom moves, or something like: quote:When you scavenge in the ruins, roll+sharp. e: Although, it might be an interesting shift to play with a "localized" Apocalypse (Apocalypse Zone?). That is, the game works on the presumption that some, even most places in the world are just like they are today, but the characters can't go back there, because they wouldn't be accepted (maybe they're subject to quarantine or justice of some sort), and/or because there's something driving or calling them to the Zone. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Aug 26, 2012 |
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Aug 26, 2012 17:31
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Blowing something up isn't a move, so it's all about asking "how?" a lot. What do they use? How do they get it? How do they get it to where it needs to be? How do they use it? How does the enemy try to stop them? Talk it through in the fiction, pay attention to when moves get triggered. Getting a bomb up against a wall is probably acting under fire. Capturing whatever the fortifications are actually fortifying would be seize by force, presumably with using a gang as a weapon.
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Aug 26, 2012 21:51
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John Harper (Agon, World of Dungeons, Lady Blackbird) wants to know if any of you sorry sons of bitches have what it takes to join The Regiment. 
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Aug 27, 2012 04:50
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InfiniteJesters posted:Does 3:16 with modified ApocWorld mechanics sound like a good idea to you guys? As a game, I think 3:16 does what it sets out to do, and that's not exactly the same thing that AW sets out to do, but there is some overlap, so it could be a fun setting. What determines success in cases like that is how excited you think the players (incl. you) would be, how inspired you get by it. I'd be really interested in Peripheral Move adaptations of the 3:16 flashback actions.
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Aug 27, 2012 20:02
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To do it, do it.
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Aug 27, 2012 23:37
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The market has validated your effort! Now just try to be the Antz to their Bug's Life.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:32
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Maybe a move like "when you try to fix or modify a piece of technology that your home culture has long since abandoned as obsolete, on a 10+ it operates on principles any schoolchild would know, on a miss you have no idea, on a 7-9 pick 3" etc., etc.
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Aug 28, 2012 19:59
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With that, and then some others like "When your gear totally outclasses theirs, take +1 forward" and "When you've never been in this kind of situation before, take -1 forward," I feel like you'd be covered, no need for additional stat ranges.
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Aug 28, 2012 20:19
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Uhhhh but you're the one making a Persona hack!
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Aug 29, 2012 01:56
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MadRhetoric posted:And what bugs me about the role-protection is that it only makes metagame sense, Welcome to story-swine country. E: seriously, it's a rule that exists to make each pc distinctive and kickass, because the goal of the design is to tell stories where each pc is distinctive and kickass. All rules exist to serve the design. The term "metagame" has totally stopped making sense to me, since it means th considerations of the people sitting at the a table, which we also call, you know, "the game." Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Aug 30, 2012 |
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Aug 30, 2012 01:38
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The rules don't force npcs to treat your character as The Gunlugger, they force the universe to. You of course can make the pcs be infamous for their poo poo-kickery if you wish, and that can be very cool.
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Aug 30, 2012 01:50
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MadRhetoric posted:I'm down with story-swining it, the rule just seems to be there because the writer/MC doesn't trust the players to be mouthbreathing fucksticks to me. quote:With A-World, it seems to be there more because not all the playbooks have the same amount of Moves and the writer couldn't be arsed to create parity. It's almost completely nonsensical with certain D-World classes (the casters and Paladin immediately come to mind). So do you mean, a playbook with more moves to choose between makes it more possible to differentiate between two "builds" ? quote:And *-World tells all playbooks to keep in character precisely because it wants you to ignore the considerations of the people sitting at the table over the characters they inhabit. Well, it does tell the MC to address the characters, and "to make Apocalypse World seem real," but I don't notice any specific instructions like that for the players. And it's a bit circular, right? The rules of a game are a layer on top of a social gathering, which try to give that gathering some particular tenor of fun, and even if you're trying to induce "rapt contemplation of the shared fiction without sparing a thought for the dice and the rules," you have no tools to do that except the dice and the rules, and no material to work on except your particular group of cool friends sitting at a particular table. There are movies that benefit from making you not think at all about the friends watching it with you, but I wouldn't like a game that tried to do the same, and I wonder if that might just make it a worse game. RPGing is not an experience that would be improved by making it eusocial....although that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what you were talking about, sorry. quote:But I've rambled on too much about this. As I said, I'm finding your perspective on this valuable and would like to hear more.
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Aug 30, 2012 03:41
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There were a bunch of kangaroos, though.
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Aug 30, 2012 04:02
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MadRhetoric posted:As a player it burns my rear end. quote:It feels like the writer doesn't trust players to be creative or mature. I find this genuinely shocking. It's almost exactly the opposite of every impression I have ever seen Vincent Baker give in everything he's ever written, AW included. That the game can come off like that concerns me. quote:I'm a very postmodernist, "meta-text matters" sort of guy so maybe I was reading too much of my own biases into it, but to me that seems to ignore the part of the game where you're a bunch of people loving around and playing pretend. That awareness of the player built fourth wall is where I got (and get) a lot of my enjoyment playing elfgames. Ahhh, I see, sorry, we're not in disagreement on this. I misunderstood you at first to be saying the game should be going for ~immersion~, and I was trying to say that no game should actually try to destroy awareness of other people at the table, making their group interactions happen outside of consciousness (hence the tortured joke about eusociality, which I now regrert), and that luckily, AW does not try to do any of that: it just tries to make a narrative that feels less dreamy and pulpy and more gritty and 'real'. The theory "games are rules are overlaid on top of existing social structures" clearly doesn't deny the people playing pretend. quote:Since the MC is a character, and the MCs Moves are meant to impact, keep, and develop character, an MC "playing right" would completely remove the player from the character. That, I'm less sure about. An engrossing story full of grit and hyper-realism which you tell with your friends is still told with your friends. The social situation cannot and should not be extracted. Among other things, the MC directives say to be a fan of the characters, which is in no way a social-neutral statement. quote:And there is a way to induce the tenor of "rapt contemplation of the shared fiction without sparing a thought for the dice and the rules" without tools; that's what improv is. Or Apples to Apples. You have the basics like "don't say no" or "put down a card you think will make your friends laugh at your monkey cheese humor" but those are mere guidelines. Improv is done with an awareness of an audience. I think the only real-life example that comes close might be the kinds of religious rituals that inspired HeroQuest, but even those had structures and rules. I for real and for serious don't get the guidelines/rules distinction. "Don't contradict or undermine what someone else has said" seems only and exactly as much of a rule as "Don't say you've won until they have zero hitpoints." Their reality is equally dependent on the group's shared understanding and agreement to be bound by them. quote:Is this the "opening your mind" kind of valuable or the "remove the madman's brain for science" kind of valuable? You're a thoughtful and expressive person who wants for themselves and others to have fun, and I try to treat listening to what people like that have to say as an end in itself. v  ve: RyuujinBlueZ posted:You know, using the old school names for the suits I totally expected you to toss in some major arcana action to go with that. If suits are the stats, arcana could be the playbooks. Dibs on the Sphinx! Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Aug 31, 2012 |
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Aug 31, 2012 03:40
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:Not to throw out every last pretense of this conversation being on topic, but I gotta ask. Are you a game designer, Doc? You just seem to be addressing things as someone who makes game systems for a living. Hell, I'd think you were Vince himself if you didn't refer to him in the third-person. Mad Rhetoric is the designer in this conversation. I'm just a living warning of what years of Forge-chat does to a man. 
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Aug 31, 2012 19:34
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ravenkult posted:Would anyone be interested in a thread about my game I talked about upthread? Maybe I could crowdsource some moves and stuff. If its an AW hack, definitely talk about it here. If its not, definitely talk about it in the design thread. Basically talk about it if you are interested, don't wait for anyone else to be.
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Sep 4, 2012 22:20
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Evil Mastermind posted:Since I'm the OP, I can lay down thread edicts, right? I would argue that dungeon world should be part of the family too, but one too many times I've seen someone post "dungeon world is great, I can't fukken stand how Baker writes." 
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Sep 5, 2012 01:42
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HitTheTargets posted:Jack Kirby game. Fourth World? Shiiiiiit, son...
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Sep 5, 2012 05:46
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InfiniteJesters posted:With Machine World though there is the omnipresent threat of the machine intelligence guiding the killbots across the burned wastes hunting for any humans they can find. Really? I could have sworn skynet pursued multiple wild-rear end innovative strategies for eliminating humans, like maybe, oh, i dunno, building robots clothed in human flesh and inventing motherfucking time travel. And that's just they showed in the movies. How many millions of ways could a superintelligence come up with to stamp out all humans? What uncountable number ideas could it steal from nature, from human history, from it's own incomprehensible imagination? Maybe the robots aren't as unified as they seem, maybe "skynet" is actually a swarm of specialized agents that sometimes seem to work at cross-purposes, just as with human consciousness. Maybe the split runs deeper, and the machine intelligence nodes on other continents pursue entirely different ends, working on philosophical differences about what to do with humans, or the world, or each other. And even besides the drat robots, an apocalypse is implacably hostile to human life. Needs for food and water, disease, the toxic wreckage of the old world, competing tribes, tensions and fears and angers...everything is a front! Your mother is a loving front, until you advance Manipulate and roll a 12! Remember: barf forth apocalyptica, and play to find out.
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Sep 6, 2012 03:40
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InfiniteJesters posted:I figured a fragmented AI could be a possibility. I keep thinking of Reign of Steel. Okay, if you're down with Reign of Steel, you're gonna be just fine.  But seriously I'd just treat the robots as your game's (other?) Psychic Maelstrom and defer decisions about its particulars. e: InfiniteJesters posted:OTOH direct confrontation with Skynet/the Machines might not be the most interesting campaign hook anyway. Maybe it's the players prodding around the wastes for what went wrong, yeah? Consider that the characters in AW are certainly not out to or even (probably) able to save the world. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Sep 6, 2012 |
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Sep 6, 2012 03:47
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Cyphoderus posted:After some deliberation, I came up with this. I very much like the idea of letting the MC decide what they think of you on a 7-9, though I would almost want to leave it more open. Maybe 'they go along with it, for now'? See how it works in play.
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Sep 7, 2012 02:49
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Nobody's analysis will obviate the need for playtesting. Like the man says, play to find out.
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Sep 7, 2012 16:49
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Tasoth posted:Thanks for the feedback. I was unsure of how to do the Hardware Upgrade move but still wanted to toss something in that reflected Megaman, which is an obvious inspiration. I like the concept of not having to resolve the front, but relying on a machines or robots in a game makes it too dependent. Maybe it could be something more generally totemic and ghoulish, like "When you decorate yourself with the desecrated remains of a fallen enemy...". e: I say make it a roll+Weird for either 3 or 1 hold which you can spend on things like inflicting extra harm or intimidating people into staying the gently caress out of your way. Don't even worry about giving the player a hard choice, because presumably the in-fiction consequences of this kind of behavior will be some serious poo poo. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Sep 8, 2012 |
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Sep 8, 2012 19:30
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 17:39 |
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Yeah, that's a good one, and it reminded me of the classic Harper AW post: Seize By Force is a Peripheral Move.quote:It's one of the least-used moves in the game (or it should be). The fictional actions it represents are unusual to the point of almost never happening. Virtually every situation where seize may come up is better covered by a combination of act under fire and go aggro (plus some of the optional battle moves, occasionally).
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Sep 11, 2012 05:33
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