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BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Scrape posted:

-Finally, and both ApocWorld and Dungeon World lay this out, but I made a big sign on my homemade GM screen that says "Fiction Trumps Everything." One of my players was debating whether his DungeonWorld character should take a shield or not. He was like "it's only +1 armor..." and I thought about it and replied: "Sure, it's +1 Armor, but it's also a shield. You can carry things on it,you can block portals with it, you can keep the hail off you in a storm, and most importantly, you can block an attack. Don't worry about the armor, worry about whether or not your warrior would carry a motherfucking shield." And that sold him on it, right there.
This is a good point, and it's one of the things I have really grown to love about AW and other story games like it.

For instance, in a PbP game I recently started, one of my players was creating his Gunlugger and wasn't sure if he should take the Big rear end Knife (2-harm hand) or Many Knives (2-harm hand infinite) as his back-up weapon. He couldn't figure out the advantage of choosing a Big rear end Knife over Many Knives since they were so mechanically similar. I told him, the advantage is that it's a big rear end knife.

He wound up going with Many Kinves, not because it's mechanically superior, but because that's what his character would have.

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BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

jonthegm posted:

In my games, the difference is categorized by the means you wish your will to be imposed. All three may have similar effects, but the fallout will be different.

If you're just trying to get someone to do something then you use Manipulate. ("Hey, Joe, toss me some jingle!")
If you're trying to get someone to do something with sex, you use Seduce. ("Hey there, beautiful!" *makeouts* "Can I have a few jingle?")
If you're trying to get someone to do something with the threat of violence, you use Go Aggro ("GIVE ME THE JINGLE OR I START SHOOTING!")
If you're trying to take something with the threat of violence or out-and-out kill someone, you use Sieze By Force. (*Joe is shot. Jingle is taken.*)

The important thing about Go Aggro is that you gotta commit to the violence if you don't get your way. If you are threatening to shoot a guy if he doesn't give you something, you have to be okay with shooting him if he doesn't give it up. If you aren't, then it's not Go Aggro.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

That Rough Beast posted:

To offer some gentle dissent, the Revenant feels conceptually problematic for your typical AW game. It's like, okay, the Driver mainly focuses on his car, and the Gunlugger has his guns, and the Chopper his gang and so on, but those are all things that can be applied in a variety of situations towards a variety of goals. The fact that this character has the Fucker (and especially because virtually all their moves tie into pursuing same) makes it extremely one-note and likely to clash with other PCs.

At best, it's going to be "Well, okay, now you do your thing with this NPC you have a hate boner for and around which all your mechanics resolve for a while and I guess we'll do... something else?" and at worst it's going to be "Why can't I just kill the Fucker myself?" This is really the only front your guy is going to be able to deal with using anything beyond basic moves, so is it going to be the focus of the game? It really requires a lot of front-loading of the setting, even more than the Hardholder or the Quarantine or the Maestro D, all of whom's assets also give the other PCs something to play around with. With this, it's like if they help you, they're stepping on your playbook concept, and if they don't, it's just you jerking off while everyone else stands aside.

I guess you could set up PC-NPC-PC triangles with the Lieutenants or the Fucker, or even have another PC be the Fucker. It would work for an antagonistic style of game, which AW handles decently, but I'm not sure most campaigns could sustain this for long. Great for a one-shot, though.

I don't want this criticism to come off as too harsh. I really like the concept of Lead and I think Evil Mastermind has done some great work here; the moves feel great for playing the Bride or some other wronged party. This playbook would be a blast in a solo game. I'd just caution that emulating a classic revenge story is not always a great choice when you're dealing with more than one protagonist. Just something to consider.

EDIT: Oh, and that one move you haven't filled in yet (I mean the one already on the sheet, not the Special) should let the Revenant turn any miss into a weak hit or any weak hit into a strong hit while adding +1 Lead. If Lead ever surpasses X, the Fucker escapes retribution forever, choose another playbook.

It does seem like the kind of playbook that a campaign should be built around, at least at first. Same thing kinda happens with the Hardholder and (sometimes) Maestro'D playbooks, too, so it's not necessarily a BAD thing, just something that everyone at the table should be aware of and agree to.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.
Someone on Story Games came up with a hack/scenario to give AW a starting situation like Fallout, with all of the characters emerging from a Vault and discovering the post-apocalyptic world around them. The characters share a playbook that adopts the Bonds mechanic from DW (with an option to use regular Hx if that's what you prefer). There's a lot of emphasis on exploring the world outside of the Vault and how it has all changed. Eventually they can "go native" and adopt an official playbook as they are integrated into Apocalypse World.

Here's the thread and here's the PDF.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

ThreeStep posted:

Was looking for good "apoc"-y photos for inspiration and I found a treasure trove of abandoned places and things. So many ideas for places.

Speaking of which, any interest in a newbie PbP game of AW? I know there's 3 or 4 running at the moment so I'm not sure how many people here haven't played AW yet but want to get in on it.

Its that or trying my new copy of Monsterhearts out.

I'm dying to get into an AW game. I'd be game.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Tollymain posted:

Chopper move:

How did I even GET HERE, son!?!?: when you inexplicably show up wherever members of your gang may be, roll +weird. On a 10+, you're there, no questions asked. On a 7–9, choose 1:
• you show up barely on time, huffing and puffing, taking -1 forward.
• you're there, but your gang is distracted by your sudden presence and takes -1 forward.

I need a result on 6-. Also kudos to those who get the joke.

One note: unless the gang is made up of PCs, giving them -1 forward doesn't work because the GM doesn't roll.

Maybe instead you have to Act Under Fire the first time you tell the gang what to do, a miss means they royally gently caress it up.

BlurryMystr fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Nov 24, 2012

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Lady Gaga posted:

I had a chance to play Monsterhearts this past weekend and it was spectacular. I've noticed there isn't a ton of chatter about it in this thread but I would recommend it. Our game was sort of a supernatural version of Mean Girls. I don't think I've ever had so much fun with a roleplaying game before. Has anyone else here tried it?

I might do a write-up of Monsterhearts for the obscure RPG thread since it seems to be a pretty low-profile game.

I gotta admit, I wasn't really interested in it because, ew, Twilight. Then I realized that not only does Monsterhearts not have to be Twilight-y at all, but if you want to take it in that direction then it can be Twilight done right.

Now I really want to give it a try.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.
When you act on advice from the guy who has a supernatural sense of how things work and fit together, things go a lot easier for you. It's like a savvyhead with Oftener Right can understand situations with as much clarity as he has for machines.

BlurryMystr fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 28, 2013

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.
Ride the rails, play Ghost Lines.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

JoeCool posted:

I'm about to MC an Apocalypse World game for the first time (or any RPG for that matter) on Saturday. I have read through the rulebook a few times now,but I was wondering if someone could walk me through an example of how a basic fight would go down. Like what rolls to call for in what basic situations, how I would translate that into storytelling, etc.

Let's say a PC Keeler is in a bar and sees Bulldog, a dude he really wants to kill. Keeler has a 9mm and is in range to shoot Bulldog. Bulldog also sees Keeler, so it is not a complete surprise attack on him, and he knows Keeler may be dangerous, but doesn't expect Keeler to pull a gun on him. Bulldog is prepared to retaliate, and calmly keeps his hand on his own 9mm just in case. Keeler wants to shoot this guy at the distance he is at, so does he roll for going aggro, seizing by force, or just trade harm for harm? Also, there is nobody that is going to help Keeler nor Bulldog.

I'm sorry if I left out any information that may be vital to understanding the situation and what to roll. This is my first time getting into these kinds of games, and it seems like a whole ton of fun to play.

I'd say in this situation it's Go Aggro. You're looking through the crosshairs, right, and Bulldog isn't expecting to get shot just like that. Now, if Keeler pulls the gun but doesn't fire right away... I think it'd be Seize By Force since it gives Bulldog time to react.

Or if you REALLY want to look through crosshairs, don't even make it a move, just deal the harm.

Of course, if Bulldog has friends in the bar, it might be Seize By Force no matter what.

BlurryMystr fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Aug 23, 2013

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Bucnasti posted:

The way I've always seen it, if the character's intention is to just shoot somebody it's Seize by Force (the thing you're seizing is their life) or trade harm for harm (if they know it's coming). If their intention is to "shoot them unless X happens" then it's Go Aggro.

Success in Going Aggro results in the target getting a hard choice between giving up or taking the the hit.
Success in Seizing by Force results in the target losing what was seized, in this case their life.

Not quite. Here's what it says in the book:

quote:

Seizing by force is very strictly only for fights, times when
characters move with violence directly against people able
to defend themselves. If the situation doesn’t allow for a full
exchange of blows, attack for attack, harm for harm, toe to toe,
it’s not seizing by force.


Going aggro is the more general move. It’s for direct threats
when the character can and will follow up with violence. The
victim may or may not be able to defend herself, that’s fine either
way — what’s crucial is that the victim isn’t defending herself
yet.
It may or may not include preliminary violence, to get the
victim’s attention and make the point, that’s fine either way too.
It may be just that the character wants to murder the victim
without giving him the chance to fight back.

Bluffing counts as seducing or manipulating, using the threat of
violence for leverage. It’s legit for you to ask the player whether
the character’s bluffing before letting her make the roll.

Also read John Harper's post about Seize By Force, if you haven't already: http://mightyatom.blogspot.com/2010/11/aw-seize-by-force-is-peripheral-move.html

EDIT: Go Aggro is when you want someone to do something and are willing to back it up with violence if they don't. Seize By Force is for when the talking is done and it's time to get down to some violence against someone who is able to fight back.

BlurryMystr fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Aug 23, 2013

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Captain Foo posted:

I actually wasn't sure at some points if we were disagreeing, haha. I'll have to check some of Harper's stuff out. Do you have any recommendations in particular?

He wrote this blog entry about Seize By Force, but I think you and Scrape have done a better job of explaining specifically what the difference is between it and Go Aggro.

Not related to GA/SBF, but there's also this entry about moves that cross the line between the players' role and the MC's role in the game.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Cyphoderus posted:

e: actually, the idea of a compulsive collector of different fighting styles, with a quasi-sentient, hungry hoard he can borrow styles from is probably my new favourite character concept of anything ever

My interpretation of this is essentially a less sane Batman. I like it.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Fenarisk posted:

I'm running a one shot based on Fringe but in the 40's, and the players are mostly used to PbtA games. I don't really want to use my copy of Tremulus since it's not my favorite, so I'm wondering if anything else is similar. Also thinking of going without moves like World of Dungeons but I'm not sure what the stats would be.

Maybe check out Black Stars Rise? I think it does what tremulus tries to do, but better and more efficiently.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.
The ZIP file of Apocalypse World: Dark Age is 666 KB. I love it already.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.
My favorite Dark Age change is that helping another character is retroactive instead of something you do before someone else rolls. This makes helping actually viable in a play-by-post format.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.
Can I just say how awesome it is to watch games grow and develop here? Between this thread and the Dungeon World thread, there's been so much cool content created and/or revised for the better. This board has really become my go-to place to watch game design happen.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.
Vincent has said that his primary influence was Vikings, so I doubt it'll be as easy to draw comparisons between Dark Age playbooks and GoT characters as it is with AW playbooks and Firefly characters.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.
He had a good round of Q&A about a month ago with some good info on what to expect with the new version of the rules.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Cocks Cable posted:

Are there any *World hacks that would work wonders for a futuristic space setting of exploring the galaxy on ship with weird aliens and unknown planets? Looking for something that could capture the feel of a pulply Star Trek or FTL-like adventure. Playbooks would be something like Pilot, Engineer, Science, Security, etc. And maybe the group's ship could be a collectively-owned playbook.

It's not a *World hack, but whenever someone asks about an RPG that emulates old school Trek, I have to recommend Lasers and Feelings. It's free and it fits on one page.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.
Interesting! Stat highlighting works for Apocalypse World but it never fit well with more action-oriented games like DW or MotW. Glad to see the DW system being used here.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Evil Mastermind posted:

You also have the right to the Mass Battle rules.

I am in love with the way that Lead an Attack and Come Under Attack work together. And except for "striking hard" and "defending well," the options are all about fictional positioning. I am getting really excited to try this out.

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Captain Foo posted:

someone start an AW PbP thanks, I have a Maestro 'd I want to try

I'm tempted...

BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.
I will say that the art and layout in the revised edition is a lot better than the original, so points there.

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BlurryMystr
Aug 22, 2005

You're wrong, man. I'm going to fight you on this one.

Strontosaurus posted:

I just started running a *World game with a new group (my roommates and gf) last night and, at the urging of the only player who had any real opinion on the matter, decided to try my hand at a Firefly-esque space cowboys game using the Uncharted Worlds hack (http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?board=49.0).

It seemed to go all right, though character creation took like an hour and a half for only 3 players. I'll chalk that up to them all being complete noobies and not having the PDF in front of them. Anyone have any experience with this hack, or recommendations for a better sci-fi setup?

We're planning to continue next week with two more players and the only thing I'm wary of is the lack of defined playbooks makes it difficult to establish everybody's role in the party. I had a great time GMing, though; rambling science fiction bullshit is one of my favorite things. The first planet they ended up on was a backwater world tidally locked with both its sun and its moon, leaving the only habitable zone the umbra and penumbra of a permanent eclipse.

This post is from a while back but I wanted to dredge it up because the Kickstarter for Uncharted Worlds has launched. I've been watching its development for a long time and I'm happy to finally get a chance to back it.

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