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Man, everyone wants to see you get slaughtered. I've been playing this since it came out. The move to make Denam a berserker is a pretty good one, overall. Sanguine Attack, one of the two Berserker special attack abilities, kicks rear end even though it seems anemic compared to Warrior specials early on. It increases your Strength for your next attack while it's active, by something like 50% I think. Bearing in mind that Berserkers can only wield weapons that calculate damage purely from strength (hence, no swords, no daggers) and that it's still possible to get a critical hit - which is the only edge of Tremendous Shot and Mighty Strike, being automatic critical abilities - your Berserker can end up hitting a lot harder than your Warrior for the tradeoff of a slightly smaller defensive base score. Kick the Necromancer's teeth in, but pick up Coax on a wizard and score yourself a lizardman first. Give him a hammer and send him out to play. Also, never learn Fortify or Strengthen, they only apply when dealing with targets of lower level than yourself and thus basically don't matter. Save your SP for things that do.
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Sep 17, 2012 06:11
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Leal posted:Wait, so I don't get additional damage bonuses/migitation for things that are on my level and above? So all these fortify II and strengthen II units have a wasted skill slot? Gabriel Pope posted:It's a little more complicated than a simple level comparison, and you will occasionally get a boost. Suffice to say it's weird and arbitrary and doesn't kick in as often as you'd expect. Yeah, it's not as simple as just "it only works on lower level targets" but it's still essentially a wasted skill slot. It updates your numbers on the stat page but if you unslot the skill vs even-level encounters you'll see very little (if any) difference in the damage you deal or take. Why this is is a bizarrely complex system involving those little attack and defense numbers you see on the Class Analysis page of your roster, where you see their current additions to stats and base RT and stuff? Strengthen will basically never take effect against anything with a 5 or greater defense modifier, which is to say... against the stuff you want it to work on, it doesn't work. Weapon skill level, Augment skill level, and Anatomy/Draconology/Golemy/etc have way more influence on how strong your effects are against others. Defensively speaking, stacking on Constitution, Dodge, and Sidestep will do you favours in the long run, especially if a unit's got really good AVD - which there are cards and food for. By the way, I'm serious about that lizardman~  
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Sep 17, 2012 15:54
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Don't feel bad. I had Strengthen IV on two units before I read about it, tested it, and kicked myself real, real hard. e: ffs, I was on Floor 63 of somewhere when I found this out too. But, anyway, the thing is the game itself basically lies to you about the efficacy of these things. I still use Spellcraft, though - I think its increased spellpower works at all levels, or at least it feels like it does. And Truestrike/Trueflight is somehow useful, if only for when you're levelling weapons you have low skill in or targeting enemies with high AVD.
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Sep 17, 2012 22:12
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Ghosts can be pretty good in this version but they're a pain in the rear end to recruit. Master Undead, the skill that you use to recruit them, can only be purchased on one class and it's a doozy to pick up. I literally just turned my one Ghost into a Divine Knight.
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Sep 18, 2012 06:58
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I can do that, yeah. There... might? be a better explanation of how those skills work floating around. My recommendation for a unit that's physical at that exact moment - check out your active abilities for that class, most of them don't suck! The ranked ones tend to fail a lot at low rank but with some attention devoted to them turn into fairly low-TP high-utility abilities by, like, rank 2 or 3. The nonranked ones, the ones that automatically succeed, are always great. Alternatively there's always the ability to use more varied consumables, swiftfoot/jump/wade, etc. All of these are game-changers in your tactical options (depending on map, of course). SP isn't normally such a limited resource that it's an issue to check these skills out until skills start costing 600-800 SP. I don't use it often myself but for the story missions, Anatomy is a safe bet - it boosts damage and heals vs humanoids, which is to say a good 80% of what you deal with. Random encounters and side-dungeons are a different matter, which is why I stopped using that category of skills. I'm trying to avoid specifics wherever possible, so H10W if you want me to button up on the mechanics discussion or avoid mentioning certain classes or skills, please let me know.
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Sep 19, 2012 18:37
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That's interesting. It might be worthwhile for me to start a new save file and run two characters with identical stats, RT, and gear and compare their numbers with/without Strengthen and Fortify, because I've been living without them for ten levels now, fighting higher-level opponents with very high defenses on some maps, and not missing them. If there's a floor, there's probably also a ceiling, or something, since swapping on Strengthen IV with 700+ melee attack before doesn't really seem to change actual damage much. Spells do not seem to follow this rule. e: About twenty minutes of testing is reaffirming my stance that Strengthen and Fortify are not worth it. Defense/damage adjustment and level have a far greater effect on your damage output than Strengthen and high base damage can account for. For the test I had characters with "natural" 681 and "strengthened" 684 damage attacking the same target. The character with strengthen hits for 7 damage, the one without, 126. I've yet to do a test run without Augment Dark on the harder-hitting character but I suspect its impact will be much less. Similarly, Fortify seems to mean absolutely nothing in terms of defense. I guess I'm just not sure what role they meant for Strengthen and Fortify to play in the damage calculation, but it doesn't seem to be a meaningful one! doomfunk fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Sep 19, 2012 |
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Sep 19, 2012 19:06
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No, I mean that despite the listed attack ratings being near to identical, the character with strengthen slotted hit for 7 damage. I'm not saying twenty minutes is an exceptionally final test of this, but my experience has been that strengthen and fortify make little to no difference in the end.
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Sep 19, 2012 19:37
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Even late-game wizards can remain competitive because of a certain TP skill they have that I am not certain the other casting classes can even equip. (This does not mean I use them.) Water and Ice are useless, everything else is pretty tops. I'm running somebody as a water specialist right now, though, and I gotta say removing indecision as to what to cast has really sped up my "kill them all with a massive watery nuke" playtime.
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Sep 20, 2012 01:05
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Okay, so there's one thing about Water that I have to give it credit for. Quench is an AOE heal/poison cure. It's not just a heal.
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Sep 20, 2012 07:11
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Hey, you did it! And hey, I'm a Bakram! Bakram's a pretty cool group of people, I guess, considering. Completely understand not wanting to grind the SP. I took a similar approach, but I think I also used a certain item to blink one of my other characters up there with Canopus - he's really tough but I don't like isolating any of my units.
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Sep 25, 2012 03:55
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This is true of any battle featuring undead in any quantity. This battle is also sort of important.
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Sep 25, 2012 20:58
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Rune Knights make better clerics than clerics.  The lobber and Field Alchemy kind of reduce them to meaningless fluff.I levelled the class to 46 recently, and I don't even know why. I haven't used a cleric since my army was in the early teens. There are... other ways to remove undead without using items but I suppose I shouldn't say anything about that until it comes up.
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Sep 30, 2012 20:00
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Gabriel Pope posted:They do get AOE healing, so... there's that, I guess. There's a much better place to put Sanctuary but it's pretty much postgame so I'll hold off on anything about that until H10W gets there. Knights, man. All Knight variants are pretty great, IMO, speed issues aside. A Knight is also a better cleric than a cleric.
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Oct 1, 2012 00:05
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Helmet 10 Warehouse posted:By the way I forgot to mention it last time; you’re a wizard doomfunk. A wizard who specializes in pyromancy and talking to lizards, you know the best kind of wizard. I got zero complaints about this. It's not my favourite magic skill but Fire is absolutely no slouch and I love the fx for it. Hence the loyalty! Helmet 10 Warehouse posted:Joins me next time for I double dog dare you to get as many titles from this one as you can.
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Oct 7, 2012 05:33
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There are pure monsters. Also, every non-human has some non-human classes that it uses, we just don't have classmarks for the reptilian-specific ones yet.
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Oct 7, 2012 17:11
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e: Since you mentioned innate Wade, I think - I think - lizardfolk have innate Wade on most of their classes. Reptilian supremacy. If you're going to have any generic be a Rune Fencer, make it a winged generic. Mobility is already one of the class's strong points and with winged's already fairly... diverse base stats, it's a clear fit. Interestingly, I was comparing the base stat spread for Rune Fencers to other normal classes and overall they're very low; this is, I think, why they're as maligned as they are. Their keystone stat is Res, so sure, they resist magic really well but they're pretty much garbage at everything else. They'd be better off with even attack/defense scales (versus the really, really heavy scale toward defense most knights have) and just a bit more strength and intelligence; that would make them more viable as the 'flexible attack unit' early-mid-game than they currently are. As it stands, you're lucky if yours does spell damage in the double digits most of the time. The class of magic they have access to later on, though, is a real doozy. Basically my favorite spells, right there. I can only think of two, maybe three, other classes that have access to them. Also... doomfunk posted:I double dog dare you to get as many titles from this one as you can.
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Oct 14, 2012 01:31
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It's surprising to me how few classes can actually use spears. Pity, too, considering how radical their finishers are.
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Oct 14, 2012 02:18
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I do the same thing. It's really quite effective.
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Oct 14, 2012 04:01
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That's the case here as well.
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Nov 10, 2012 08:43
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Yeah, there's one in CODA that's basically utter horseshit. I only made it to the NPC before he got one-shot by cheesing the mission completely. e: I've done the naked unit maneuver once, more often I just have everyone eat Wheels of Fortune and blitz the battlefield.
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Nov 10, 2012 17:28
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Also, characters have a number of 'hearts' that indicate times they can be incapacitated and have their timers run out. Basically everyone has three lives, it's really quite forgiving. It's also a pain in the rear end if you want to scavenge off of a character.
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Nov 10, 2012 19:50
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So many lines in this game are killer. It's a long way off but there are a couple bros in white I hope H10W brings to a specific fight because the trash they talk is icy-hot.
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Nov 11, 2012 05:24
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I felt he was a pretty decent guy in one path. Vyce is just so radically different based on how the story goes, it's really hard to consider him anything but several characters in one.
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Nov 11, 2012 05:38
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It bears mentioning that Phalanx is one of the most effective defensive skills in the game. Any class that can use Phalanx is capable of being a complete brick wall to any enemy that doesn't have the ability to bypass Rampart Aura.
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Nov 19, 2012 17:23
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The other knights have even badasser female artwork, IMO. But that'll come in time.
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Nov 19, 2012 20:06
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In addition to the many ways this fight can play out, it's also got a really unusual number of titles you can earn from completing it for a single map this early in the game. Of note, and the one I was trying to get H10W to try for earlier, is the title for not supporting Cistina with magic or items, just letting her cope with her own injuries and still managing to save her. It's not so hard if you, say, stock your army full of winged units who are all archers, as an example, but it's still a right bitch to get the "normal" way of tackling a map.
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Nov 21, 2012 21:18
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Have you made the choices you will make over the course of this LP in advance, or are you putting it to the thread to vote?
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Nov 27, 2012 20:46
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Yep, a statistic that is completely hidden until way, way, way later in the game also accounts for that to some degree as well. Being Bakram is also something I have no problems with.
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Nov 29, 2012 04:48
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Hammers are some of my favourite weapons. Just gonna point that out, they stomp on all kinds of rear end. In previous TO games, spears and fist weapons were my top choices for various weird reasons, but here... Goddamn, pretty much any hammer user with decent strength is going to blow anything they hit away.
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Dec 3, 2012 20:25
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He has less specific restrictions on a lot of other equipment types, one category of which offers a great deal more flexibility in its use when the user is able to fly. Also: Most reptilian classes can use any hammer.
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Dec 3, 2012 22:01
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theshim posted:I think this one should be pointed out. And kept. Definitely kept. Hey, I wasn't going to say anything.
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Dec 12, 2012 22:07
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Helmet 10 Warehouse posted:Also doomfunk, I need you to pick a type of magic (besides fire).  Uh, dark! It's flexible and I enjoy its utility (until a dark-exclusive caster runs into undead).
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Dec 13, 2012 01:09
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Actually, we already have one in the goonliest knightly order. It's the whole reason I was recruited in the first place, I think. They're pretty brutal.Leal posted:You don't know how much that surprised me, since your starter wizard is dark exclusive. The aspire- line of spells still works normally on undead units, giving them at least something to do. As for beast units, yeah, they're rough. Especially octopi. Motherfucking octopi.
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Dec 13, 2012 16:10
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No... but we can jump on them.
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Dec 14, 2012 08:36
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I understand.
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Dec 17, 2012 23:02
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Miles Vorkosigan posted:I understand. Look at it this way, the Resistance is vastly outnumbered by the Galgastani. To have any hope of winning they are going to have to play dirty. This decision isn't about Denam, it's ultimately about the fate of the Galgastani and Wallister people. You can't things like individual morals interfere in something of that magnitude. The thing I love about this game is you can reason very well for either side of this argument. I've played through 2/3 of the branching gameplay paths and really question whether I can ever do that third one without it simply being to collect those characters with names and faces that I don't have already, because of the means by which you arrive upon that branch. I'll say more on it (much, much) later, I guess. Ultimately, like H10W says, both of these choices right here, right now, are totally valid. In the immediate context of the decision the best way to boil it down is: 1. I understand. I am willing to serve what my superiors have decided is in the interests of the greater good, acknowledging our situation is as dire as it is, we must dirty our hands to meet our noble goal. 2. Stop this lunacy! If we discard our individual morals, what good is our side in this conflict at all? To lower ourselves so far, we would be no better than they are. With both, they serve just as well as knee-jerk reactions and as strongly, laboriously considered ones. It's a difficult choice! e: Also since Staticpulse and I evidently disagree you can totally picture the party wizard and party warrior bickering over this, if you like.
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Dec 17, 2012 23:48
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Unless I miscounted, it's a really close vote; 20-17 in favor of slaughtering the innocent people, you monsters. Interestingly, the game itself almost seems to suggest the ending the player will get from this first choice. I say 'almost' because the endings are determined by other actions on the part of the player way later on, but this choice suggests a mode of play that will likely lead to certain endings for a first playthrough.
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Dec 18, 2012 15:00
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There are three. This choice doesn't directly affect any of them.
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Dec 18, 2012 15:59
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I had trouble going back and saying "stop this lunacy" because I'd done so before on PSX and had just finished the game having said "I understand." 
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Dec 18, 2012 23:09
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We're sitting at 32-31 in favor of burning down the house, unless I miscounted.
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Dec 19, 2012 20:23
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