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Deep Dish Fuckfest
Sep 6, 2006

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President Ark posted:

e2: Bonus bonus points if you can set pipes to be completely transparent while still being able to see things travelling through them so it looks like there's just a bunch of bricks/pigs/urchins/iron bars flying through the air from factory to factory.

e3: Make that a megaproject.

The Crystal Pipe-Lace!

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Shadowmorn posted:

So, gorging myself on dwarf fortress letsplays has made me want to play something like it, but dwarf fortress itself? Gaahha, No. I dont know how you folk do it, seriously. AND i was trying that "lazy newb pack" or whatever it is.

Oh, that's easy. You start five or more years ago when the game was simpler than it is now, and then you keep up with changes by playing it from time to time. And if, like me, you're someone who can't seem to learn the UI for the tools you use everyday, then it's a good idea to take up drinking to cope with the fact that you've somehow managed to learn the labyrinthine DF interface but still can't loving use vim or any other text editor anywhere near as fast.

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nvining posted:

Please note the thought icon for "thinking about the sea." This is important.

That's the one which is "thinking about the sea" much in the same way as one would "think about the mountain" as torrents of flaming magma are coming down towards the colony?

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nvining posted:

"Thinking in the sea" in the sense that one might think about the sea if one was laden with certain thoughts of a certain persuasion.

Also, I don't know if we actually have a plan for volcanos.

That's what I figured, but the icon looked sort of like a tsunami to me. Which I'd only describe as "thinking about the sea" if you think of the sea as of this horribly destructive source of death and misery. Which, granted, might be pretty accurate here.

As for volcanoes, I think it's wise not to include them. After all, they seem exactly like the sort of place Cultists would go to Perform Rituals Most Dire. We certainly wouldn't want that.

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Can't be anything good if it involves php. php is the tool of the devil Trickster God Loki. Usually involves web development Cultists and databases Communism too, like some Unholy Trinity.

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Let's be fair here, the whip economy in Civ IV was objectively the most effective way of kickstarting your civilization's long term growth. Hell, if you had cities with tons of unhappy citizens, your (surviving) citizens sometimes ended up being happier for it!

In unrelated matters, googling "baleful star" now shows the page for the tag "the Unblinking Eye of the Baleful Star watches over all subjects of the Clockwork Queen" as the ninth result for me. I certainly didn't find that out when I googled for the definition of "baleful".

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Bernardo Orel posted:

Ummmmm....



Bon appetit?

Earlier I started a colony, laid down a field, and the one colonist that immediately went to work in it planted pretty much nothing but Clawbulbs.

Then before I could fix the problem through liberal application of Frontier Justice, fishpeople started killing everyone. Which I suppose does technically fix the Clawbulb Situation in the long term.

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nvining posted:

I will also note, for the record, that writing a DF-alike or colony builder is incredibly hard; a combination of very hard design problems and extremely tough programming. The pathfinding alone is a nightmare, as is the joy of trying to debug a problem when you have about a million moving pieces all of which interfere with each other, and changing any one piece throws off your reproducibility. Aaaaaaagh!

I don't think that's unique to that sort of game; I've spent my entire day restarting a game and performing some arcane series of actions culminating in unplugging a network cable from a console devkit while begging the elder gods for it to be in the right network operation at that very moment, and it's a very different style of game. In the end, the gods ignored my supplications, my debugger remained unattached, and only shame and open Jira issues were left.

quote:

So, uh. Anybody have any good fishpeople stories?

In my latest game, fishpeople took offense to my colonists invading their swamp and waged a constant campaign of guerrilla warfare, constantly attacking from every direction. Despite this, the brave soldiers of the Empire held them back with minimal losses (about .1 DPG (deaths per gabion)), and New Sogwood seemed well on its way to becoming a thriving colony.

Then the fishpeople stopped loving around and sent 36 raiders. I saved my game, attempted to draft every last colonist, at which point the game crashed on me due to what I assume was a fishperson overflow. Reloading the save also caused the game to crash, so I guess fishpeople had the last laugh.

Well, that's my fishpeople story.

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I've seen no mention of it, but how soon can we expect a fix for the most pressing issue of them all: gabions not being buildable in a tile where a previous gabion was destroyed? It leads to all sorts of... unclean fortification shapes. It's like an itch I can't scratch!

Also, is the frequency/size of fishpeople invasions going to be tweaked? I understand that now that colonists are hardier and fishpeople will flee like cowards thus exposing their vulnerable backs to courageous Imperial soldiers it's usually possible to beat back even large raids with few casualties, but I've found it has a tendency to lead to everyone starving because they stop farming/stewing to instead flee in horror from fishpeople.

Well, even if that doesn't happen, I certainly like the planned changes, although I don't like the fact that I'll probably keep playing just as much despite having already sunk 65 hours in this colony/cabbage/cult simulator.

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nvining posted:

I... didn't even know this was a bug. Did you post somewhere where I can actually get somebody else to file a ticket that I can ignore and make someone else fix?

Of course not. I figured you guys would instantly know the moment anybody discovered a bug, though telepathy or somesuch. Or someone else would have already reported it. One or the other.

I've just used the form at the bottom of the community portal page, hopefully that works.

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Landmines will be one of the types of crops you can plant. When a Fishperson indulges in their thirst for vicious plant-directed violence, they will have an unpleasant surprise. And if no Fishperson attacks for some time, or they simply don't walk in that field, then landmines will eventually become ripe for harvests and you get more landmines. Well, that's how I'd make things work.

But yeah, I hope there's a way to define an actual minefield instead of having to individually replace every mine, and to produce them in decently-sized batches. Not that I want to lessen the recognition each and every landmine deserves for doing its Duty against the Fishperson threat or anything, but a Colonial Bureaucrat has so much to do...

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So I've just hit a somewhat odd bug in the game. By which I mean kinda pretty bad. The game won't unpause. If I hit space on my keyboard, the "PAUSED" red text disappears, but nothing else seems affected. I can still click on terrain features and see the contextual menu (ie, Forage, Plant Maize for farms, etc), I can also still click on colonists to see their profiles, but if I click on buildings I can't actually get the window for that building to open. If I click the "menu" button, the window opens, but clicking "Save" or "Quit to Main Menu" doesn't do anything (other than close the menu window). Other UI elements such as the "Commodities" or "Colonists" or various buttons at the bottom left of the screen seem to still be responsive. But if I try to add a new exploration waypoint, it won't appear on the terrain. Or if I try to create a new workshop, I'll be able to designate the floorplan, then place modules, but after I click OK the foundations won't appear on the terrain.

Since I figured it might be useful to debug this, I've attached the visual studio debugger to the game and created a minidump of the process state. If you guys are interested, I can send it over. Hopefully it'll be of some use.

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Deadmeat5150 posted:

Hats. Hatmaking. Hatselling. Hats. Fanciful hats. Hat wants and desires.

Yeah, this dude's got the right idea.

That aside, I was wondering if the issue I've mentioned a while back where the game becomes half-unresponsive has been investigated (the one where I mentioned I'd created a minidump of the process state)? Ordinarily I'd expect it to get sent to the bottom of the Jira dashboard, understandable as it's usually unpleasant at best to debug and doesn't seem to be affecting most people, but it's happened to me again on 32. Which, coincidentally, was on the best colony I'd managed to build up in a while, including a successful defense against 37 horrid fishpersons. The entire battle was a rather desperate thing, where some of my colonists were reduced to using the guns they picked off the fishpeople's corpses for lack of ammunition and proper weapons. But, the Empire perseveres!

I'm sure the fields and fields of spoiled crops, or the two creepy shrines built during the battle, will not diminish the glory of this victory in any way.

And as a final note, this was my first time using mines, and I have to say they're rather underwhelming. I expected to see gills and scales splattered all over a wide area, with waves of fishpeople trampling each other to get back to the sea, but, err, it didn't kill the one that stepped on the mine, and didn't seem to have any effect whatsoever on the ones a few tiles away.

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nvining posted:

Yeol: Since you can send me minidumps through some sort of alchemy, send me another one with revision 32? I thought I had dealt with this but apparently not.

I'd already killed the process by the time I read this, unfortunately. I figured it just hadn't been looked at and put at the end of some gigantic todo list (because that's what I would have done) and it was the exact same issue. If I hit it again, I'll be sure to send you a dump.

nvining posted:

I will forward the complaints about land-mines to Her Royal Majesty's munitions department.

EDIT: From David:

"Landmines are /occasionally/ deadly, but it's only if the positions of two of the small sub-explosions align with the character -- the high damage of the explosion is eaten by the affliction, then hp reset, then the whole healthMax has to be hit again to kill in one shot. It happens, but is rare. Could bump up damage of all explosions by 1-2 points in both explosion and shrapnel and it'll get more deadly.

I added a high-radius morale hit to fishpeople when mines go off. The problem is people can't SEE this effect, so they dont get how effective mines are against groups of fishpeople. Alas. Should have put an emote icon in for that."

Splendid!

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I've recently hit an issue where you can't add modules to buildings if you're playing a game that was saved and then loaded. Seems like someone already reported it on the forums, though. It caused me great pain to find out I would never be able to upgrade the brewery I'd planned on building in multiple steps. Which reminds me, I might have hit another brewery-related bug in another game: I started making moonshine, and after making 3 mason jars of the stuff, a good chunk of my colonists made it to the stockpile with the "Drink beverage" action. But they wouldn't actually drink the moonshine (although they were fine drinking the chicha made earlier). This is roughly when a wave of fishpeople came and started going to town on my colony because my soldiers were busy staring at the jugs of moonshine and wondering if it really was such a good idea to drink the stuff. When fishpeople made it there, soldiers just started scattering like civilians instead of fighting back, even though they had weapons (I think) and bullets. I could understand that sort of behaviour if it took place after they drank the stuff, but not before. Maybe the fumes from the jugs were too much...?

Also, Steam tells me I've now played this fishpeople slaughter simulator for 100 hours so far. I'm not sure how I feel about that. The good news is that it's most likely going to stop increasing as much starting next Friday. The bad news is that I'll be playing Beyond Earth instead.

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Wolfgang Pauli posted:

How on earth are you guys getting stable settlements? I can't even keep a couple farms running and stop my peeps from starving to death.

I can't speak for others, but there's a couple of things that work for me.

When I start on the jungle biome, which is pretty much all the time, I usually look around a bit before deciding if I'm going to keep playing or just restart. I realize it's something a lot of people don't like, but as it is it's entirely possible to start in a location where there's basically no source of anything for miles around, except some trees. That's not really fun. Ideally, there would be a source of fungus somewhere near so people don't starve before the first harvest.

I build a kitchen right after my lumber mill is done. I make sure there's 6 or more stone ovens in there (and a couple workbenches, but they're not usually needed). As soon as there's a few ovens ready, I make sure to assign a work crew to the kitchen that has every labor disabled except working in their workshop (and maybe foraging/farming if everyone else is busy and I don't have any food that can be cooked yet). It's really important to get a kitchen working early, because cooked food has like 5 times the value of uncooked food. I think it's worth having your first supply drop be food if you haven't managed to get cooked food ready by that time, even if you have managed to forage tons of ingredients. It's also worth noting that kitchens are a lot more efficient when dealing with ingredients stored in stockpiles really close by. It might seem obvious, but there's a huge difference in the time it takes to process fungus scattered over a large area and the time it takes to process a metric tonne long ton of maize stored in a stockpile.

I start farming maize/cabbage at the same time I start building my kitchen. Usually I go with two of the largest fields to start with, and if I find that I've got work crews with nothing to do and not that much food stockpiled, I add more fields. At some point it becomes worthwhile to have a work party that has nothing but farming labor enabled to make sure your crops grow as fast as possible (and don't rot in the field). It's also worth noting that only one work crew can work a given field as a time, so if you receive an overseer and don't assign them any workers, make sure to disable farming for them (or all labors except hauling, really). I find two laborers is the bare minimum to work large fields at an acceptable pace. As I receive more immigrants, I make sure that the work parties that farm are relatively large, and the kitchen work party is usually the largest.

Make sure to disable all labors on your militia, except maybe building although I have no idea if that actually affects building gabions or not. Above all, make sure hauling is disabled so they're pretty much always idle, in combat, or grabbing bullets. That might seem like it doesn't have much to do with farming, but it means you can send them to deal with any fishperson that gets too close to your colony without them being tied up moving logs around or whatever. The real danger there isn't so much fishpeople destroying your crops as it is fishpeople scattering your farmers and disrupting your food supply.

And finally, butcher every last fishperson. There should be an "auto-butcher fishpeople" setting that can be turned on. They should be valid targets for work parties with hunting enabled. They are nothing but brute beasts that deserve to be wiped off the face of the planet! I shall see this swamp burned, seared and sterilized until every hiding place is found and until every last fishperson egg, every last slimy one, has been cooked to a smoking husk! That species shall be exterminated, I tell you! Exterminated! Err, what I'm saying is, you might as well get something out of those constant raids, and that something is 50 or more fishpeople steaks in your stockpile. New Sogwood might not be next to the sea, but the menu's fresh fish all day 'erry day.

Oh yeah, this reminds me that the "Steam Oven" module isn't shown when the kitchen filter is on for placing modules. That might be a bug.

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nvining posted:

Yeol: I have a replay which causes the infinite loop! I think! Huzzah! Fixing this now.

Huzzah! Huzzah! Cog save the Queen and all that!

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ASSERT(nvining_sane);

Yep, I get an assertion all right.

I did enjoy the blog post, though. Graphics isn't exactly my field, but I do remember that the last time I looked at OpenGL, 2/3rd of the documentation was about stuff that was hopelessly obsolete, so I can't say I fault them for getting rid of a lot of things.

It also makes me appreciate that a lot of the APIs I use were created in the 80s and will exist until the heat death of the universe.

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Like, taking a pickax to hematite nodes, or laying down mines in the middle of the chapel?

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nvining posted:

Right now, I'm just trying to stop vicars from performing illegal mining operations.

quote:

Like, taking a pickax to hematite nodes, or laying down mines in the middle of the chapel?

nvining posted:

FIXED: listening to a sermon caused colonist's bodies to explode

Guess that answers that question.

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One thing that threw me off with farms and stockpiles at first is that as far as I can tell, you don't select the tile where you want it to start/end, but instead you select the vertices where you want that to happen (ie, the points where the lines of the grid cross). That might be the issue, or you might already know that and it's something entirely different. Either way, I do feel like the zone/building/module placement is kinda clunky in the game, although I've sort of gotten used to it by now. Except when I have to fight with modules that insist on snapping in the wrong orientation and won't let me change it regardless of how frantically I press the right mouse button; I honestly can't figure out what the rules for that are.

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That's it; from now on it's Frontier Justice for all suspected Communists. You will not sap and impurify all of my precious bodily fluids!

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Honestly, I think that the "place multiple modules" mode should be the default mode; no need to hold shift.

Two things related to that I've noticed, though:
1. Sometime after you click to place a module (holding shift), no new module footprint will appear under your cursor as you move around. It seems you have to bring your cursor out of the building you're placing the modules in, and then back in for the module to finally appear, although I'm not 100% sure. I've mostly noticed this when placing a lot of cots in my human resource warehouse.
2. Modules return to their default orientation after placing one while holding shift. Maybe that's intended, but it feels weird to me. Pretty minor issue, though.

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On the "somewhat amusing but probably not intended" front, I'm currently seeing a club made of spiky coral in the fog of war just moving around like it's being held by some kind of creature... It's probably nothing for my colony to worry about, but I haven't seen this mentioned after a quick check on the official forums, so I figured it was worth posting about. If only so it gets added to the gamedev-standard "Infinite Todo List of Lesser Items".

EDIT: If it's of any help, the mouseover tooltip tells me "Current Job: Idle" for said coral club.

Deep Dish Fuckfest fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Feb 3, 2015

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If Cult Juice doesn't get produced once in a while by breweries being managed by cultists (preferably at night when the moon is particularly baleful), then I don't want to play this game anymore.

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nvining posted:

This is the subject of Active Debate in the office and no news can be announced yet.

Good to see The Pit is still seeing some use.

That said, I'm also ok with multiple autosave slots. It's not like hard drive space is at a premium these days.

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nvining posted:

Please let me introduce you to our endless folders full of video game replays that we keep on your machine for "Debug Purposes."

Pfff, the replay folder on my machine currently clocks in at 71MB after nearly 200 hours of playtime. You'll have to do better than that. I mean, it's not even worth setting up a NAS server to store, let alone some Hadoop file system cluster. It's like you're not even trying to ride the Big Data wave.

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So, quick question, when I kill soldiers from another nation and/or empire and/or Grossherzogtum (whatever that is), are my colonists supposed to bury the corpses or just leave them out in the sun to rot? Because I've seen both happen; of the four vile Stahlmarkians that attacked my colony, one was buried and the others were just dumped unceremoniously in the woods. My first reaction was that colonists would only bury foreign officers, but not common soldiers, but that doesn't seem to be the case (Stahlmarkian officers wear pointy hats, right?).

That said, colonists should totally only bury foreign officers and not regular footsoldiers.

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Yeah, google translate says "Großherzogtum" is German for Grand Duchy.

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aerion111 posted:

and not just watch a starvation simulator?

I think you're looking at the wrong game here.

A bit more seriously, in the current version the difficulty for getting food has been significantly reduced compared to previous versions, so you're in luck. Start a game on the temperate biome (New Antipodea), find a source of stone (there should be one nearby if it's not visible at the start), and then lay down a stockpile close by. Setup the following jobs: mine the stone nodes, chop down some trees (5 to 10 should be enough), and have someone forage for whatever food is nearby (berries or fungus). While this is going on, lay down the blueprint for a carpenter workshop, with a couple of workbenches in it. Then also lay down the blueprint for a kitchen that has 3-6 stone ovens in it. Your starting food stocks should last you for a few days, so you're not in any hurry. Once your carpenter's workshop is ready, assign someone to it and start making planks since you'll need them soon enough. Likewise, once there's a few ovens completed in your kitchen, assign someone to it and tell them to make stew. Stew can be made with just about anything, and the important part is that for every unit of raw food that's used as input, you get at least two units of prepared food as output, which is good as unlike dwarves your colonists don't like to eat nothing but raw mushrooms.

Once you start getting some immigrants and have more manpower and people to feed, setup a farm and start growing cabbage. Until you have work parties that have more than just an overseer in them, though, you should probably stick to foraging for your food since farming tends to be a bit more manpower intensive to get started. Well, that's roughly what I do anyhow. Seems to work well enough.

And remember, if all else fails, your colonists will likely come up with ways of getting food on their own from whatever's around. Like other colonists.

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I think my favorite part about bugs like those is that you can't use a debug build of the game to make debugging easier because that changes your timing and makes the bug go away. And when you're not using a debug build, your debugger starts lying to you constantly because it can't figure out what kind of optimizations the compiler did. So depending on the nature of the bug, you might be left with the unenviable option of going through the assembly instruction by instruction to figure out where you really are, and how exactly you've managed to get there. This is especially bad on consoles because the compilers base their optimizations on the fact that the hardware is fixed. So your simple function with a loop and two arithmetic operations somehow ends up containing 6 conditional jumps to various parts of other functions, and a bunch of vector instructions because the compiler figured out that this would make more effective use of the instruction cache or reduce branch mispredictions or who the gently caress knows what. :shepicide:

Anyhow, I'm happy that's been fixed. It happened to me a couple of times, and it pretty much led to me losing interest in the game for a little while each time.

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quote:

FIXED: foreigners would punch fish steaks they happened upon

How else are they supposed to make sure those fishpeople are really dead? It could be a cunning trap!

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Eating raw exotic caviar should have a chance of leading to an Alien chestbuster scenario, but with more fishpeople and marginally less xenomorphs.

Oh! Also I just remembered something odd I saw last time I played (46A). Maybe it's intended, maybe not, but a group of fishpeople passing near my colony carrying goods dropped all of their stuff and started fleeing in terror with the "fleeing from obeliskian" job. There was an obeliskian there, but it was half buried in the ground sleeping. Or resting or idling or waiting or whatever it is obeliskians do when they're not trying to kill my colonists. In this particular instance, my colonists had no issue with walking around that same area, so it seems it was just the fishpeople who were scared. It does explain why I've found long pork and other forms of meat lying around near obeliskian "clusters" before, though.

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I've seen one recently after the Stahlmarkians took offense to, well, my colony's continued existence apparently, and sent 20 soldiers or so to make it clear. They were beaten back, but it did leave my fields littered with tens of bodies. And burying all of those took long enough that the former owner of one of those bodies decided to return as a specter. They really didn't do much afterwards, though. It triggered a decision where I played down colonists' concerns about the whole place being haunted, but that's really all I noticed. Oh well. Not even a single cult was formed through the entire ordeal either, even though everyone in the colony was utterly mad after seeing all those dead bodies. And fishpeople butchering a few of those. And the sudden re-appearance of meat on the colony's menu.

I was able to clean things up and get the colony back on its feet; reaching a population of 50. At which point the Ministry helpfully decided to airdrop a commemorative landmine right in the middle of my settlement. Said landmine promptly exploded as soon as it touched the ground or the roof of a building, killing 4 colonists and then setting something like 6 more on fire in the process. It's also possible that the explosion was due to another landmine I'd buried pretty much at that exact same spot as part of a devious plan to hold back the Stahlmarkians that had previously invaded. The plan might not have been as clever as I'd thought, in hindsight.

Also, something I've noticed which may or may not be intended is that "long pork" is a valid ingredient for making sausages, but the resulting sausages don't seem to bother those eating them in any way. I suppose "don't ask what sausages are made from" is as valid in CE as it is in the real world.

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Working on weekends, huh? Can't say I miss that part of game dev.

That said I've picked this up again recently and I have to say that things have massively improved since I last played. There's a whole lot less of "what the hell does this thing even does?", and a whole lot less of things breaking and the game crashing. I've enjoyed the last game I played a whole bunch and actually managed to get a colony large enough and old enough to have some cults setup shop. I even had [REDACTED BY ORDER OF THE MINISTRY OF OCCULT AFFAIRS] visit my colony for the first time.

So keep up the good work.

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