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Are you getting the Wii U?
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MUFFlNS
Mar 7, 2004



Quest For Glory II posted:

My only concern with wii u specs is the lack of info on the CPU.

My other concern is that Microsoft will switch to a subsidy model which will let them put space age tech in their box if they wanted to. I still think such a model would prove ultimately unpopular with gamers, though.

Yeah, it's been heavily rumoured that Microsoft will launch the next Xbox at a cheap price point, with customers repaying via a yearly Xbox Live subscription. I can actually see that being a huge success for them to be honest (if you have an Xbox chances are high you already pay for XBL anyways, so everybody would jump on the offer). I have a feeling that Sony may be caught off-guard by it, but possibly adopt a similar tactic of a lower price point with yearly PS+ subscription. It's an interesting idea really, and a good way of introducing powerful technology at a reasonable price point, which may be a requirement if the crazy rumoured specs for the next Sony/Microsoft consoles are true (which imply that they'll blow the Wii U clean out the water).

As for putting powerful tech into the console, that's a given anyways. People tend to forget this, but Nintendo use cheap hardware and sell consoles for a profit, whereas Sony and Microsoft use expensive hardware and sell their consoles for a loss.

fivegears4reverse posted:

That said, for all my pessimism, if Platinum gives us Star Fox: Climax Assault and it's basically a seven hour on rails + all range mode shooter that's faster paced than Afterburner Climax, Nintendo wins, goddamnit.

Give me that and another F-Zero made by Sega and hoo boy

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Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Chaltab posted:

I don't see why they need to do that. The Gamepad has all the functionality of the pro controller and then some, so it makes a lot more sense to only sell the pro controller to people who really want or need it.

The average consumer will 100% not see the Gamepad as anything other than a tablet thing for touch games, and that mindset does have an effect on developers as well, who will be of the mindset of "the consumer might not have a core game controller === no core games for this system." Literally no chance can be taken with this system being as easy as possible for third party stuff to be on. I guess that's what I was posting before, with the Wii Nintendo was supposedly going to be "more open" to third parties but the system lacked the power and the standardized control options to make it a reality. With the WiiU they have chance to market a system that truly has it all if they actually put that controller in the box with it.

Nintendo created this effect themselves with the Wii. Look at how many games they published with no Classic Controller support that absolutely, 100% would have played fine with the Classic Controller.

Like we're all saying though, none of this will matter if Nintendo actually brings the heat with their first/second party stuff this time.

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at Sep 17, 2012 around 01:41

PaletteSwappedNinja
Jun 3, 2008

Big Games Poster


fivegears4reverse posted:

"But other threads/posters do it too "

And you just did it again! It doesn't matter if it's one person or a dozen. Where do you people find the energy for all this crap?

Mennonites Revenge
Feb 13, 2012

Lack of electricity... is my destiny...

AngryCaterpillar posted:

Yeah, apparently me and my sources were confused because the sensor bar is being included in that supplemental package with the Wii Remote and Nunchuk. Not sure why they'd sell the sensor bar separately if it was included in both packages. Or maybe that's just for Europe?

IIRC it's for Japan, too. And given how the Game Pad has a sensor bar built-in, I'm not sure it's 100% necessary, either...

Chaltab
Feb 16, 2011

So shocked someone got me an avatar!


MUFFlNS posted:

Nintendo has had an abysmal history in regards to third party support for their consoles that goes back three console generations. Having delusions that it will be different this time is foolish. It's like people trying to insist that the next Sony/Microsoft consoles won't be more powerful than the Wii U, these will be the same people who insisted the difference between the Wii and the PS3/360 wouldn't be much either and look at how that turned out.

Nintendo have currently positioned themselves where because they're first out the gate, they can wrangle a lot of quick ports from third parties who are willing to test the waters with the Wii U for minimal cost and effort. Will Nintendo still have smooth sailing once the next PlayStation and Xbox release? Chances are very slim, and if you're expecting third party publishers to prioritize the Wii U just because it has a bigger install base, you need only look at the Wii to see that simply doesn't work. Third party games sell terribly on Nintendo consoles which is why publishers abandoned Nintendo.
You're right on the level of buying a Nintendo home console primarily for third-party support doesn't make any sense, but the reasons Nintendo's third party support has been lacking in the past haven't been consistent. On the N64 it was because of storage--Nintendo's decision to use carts. On the Gamecube, Nintendo had generally drat good third party support for most of the system's life. It was only towards the end that there were cracks.

With the Wii, the issue isn't just computing power, but data storage, control options, and no firmware support for serious online play. Storage and control options are covered. Online details aren't fully known, but there's definitely a greater focus on it. The only issue the Wii U will have once the other two launch is computing power, and the deficit likely won't be as great compared to the one between the Wii and 360 because making another huge leap like that would be prohibitively expensive. Hell, for the PS3 it was for the first several years.

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW


Neo Rasa posted:

The average consumer will 100% not see the Gamepad as anything other than a tablet thing for touch games

I think I heard this line of thinking before. I think it was around late 2004? Had to do with handhelds?

AngryCaterpillar
Feb 1, 2007

When will this hatred end?


I think the fact that big budget multiplatform games are on the thing should make it pretty obvious that it's not just a tablet.

All we can hope is that developers don't shoehorn in touch controls where buttons make more sense like on the DS.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Paper Jam Dipper posted:

I think I heard this line of thinking before. I think it was around late 2004? Had to do with handhelds?

You have, in my very own posts actually regarding the ambition and diversity of Nintendo's first party titles. Most people forget but there was a brief time where the PSP was the handheld you bought. The DS was kind of interesting and had a lot of games that were either pure five minute tech demo (Pac Pix) or purely unplayable (Bomberman, Nanostray).

It wasn't until the tri-fecta of Kirby: Canvas Curse, WarioWare Touched and Nintendogs came out in mid-2005 that the DS exploded, sold like gangbusters and its potential was realized. The DS Lite+New Super Mario Bros. simultaneous release in May 2006 (see a pattern? Very diverse output and a game with Mario and Bros. in the title, the ultimate team-up) then made the brand immortal.

All I'm saying is that after the Wii's life post NSMB, Nintendo needs to work much harder if they want to keep the third party stuff coming after the first year or so. Making sure customers perceive it as a "real" system and not an add-on for the Wii or another handheld (this is still happening regularly at retailers everywhere) is still a hurdle that has to be overcome because, frankly, I don't think Nintendo itself has what it takes to meet or exceed what they accomplished with their DS library. IF they can then it won't matter if they have third party support or not, but after the second half of the Wii's life I doubt that that's possible.

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at Sep 17, 2012 around 02:07

kater
Nov 16, 2010


Chaltab posted:

The only issue the Wii U will have once the other two launch is computing power, and the deficit likely won't be as great compared to the one between the Wii and 360 because making another huge leap like that would be prohibitively expensive.

I don't know. Having only 1 gb of useable RAM could possibly leave it worse off than the Wii was, depending on the rumors and the tide.

Paper Jam Dipper posted:

I think I heard this line of thinking before. I think it was around late 2004? Had to do with handhelds?

Yea, everyone knows it's the average developer that's going to see it as nothing but a tablet thing for touch gimmicks.

As someone who wants a Wii U just to have a cool rear end couch-handheld not even connected to the TV I hope everything about the touch screen is ignored forever. Not to mention it's a gross rear end resistive screen.

Sushi X
Jan 13, 2001


AngryCaterpillar posted:

I think the fact that big budget multiplatform games are on the thing should make it pretty obvious that it's not just a tablet.

All we can hope is that developers don't shoehorn in touch controls where buttons make more sense like on the DS.

That's one of my concern too. Unfortunately, this seems to be already happening. Just look at the new Rayman game where you can't play Rayman in some of the stages in order to utilize a character who relies on the tablet control. Totally shoehorn for no discernible reason than to force you to use the tablet.

fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007
I'll shill for anything if I like it enough!

AngryCaterpillar posted:

I think the fact that big budget multiplatform games are on the thing should make it pretty obvious that it's not just a tablet.

All we can hope is that developers don't shoehorn in touch controls where buttons make more sense like on the DS.

You can almost guarantee this is going to be the case in the beginning. It's all part of getting consumers used to it as a thing for the system. The DS did it, the Vita is doing. Ubi's already doing that with the new Rayman. This isn't inherently bad, though.

Even I have to agree that there's plenty of potential for a second screen. I just think very few games on the DS line have ever really used it meaningfully for much more than Map/Menus.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

You don't understand my problems! I can't even promote till the end of the game!

fivegears4reverse posted:

Even I have to agree that there's plenty of potential for a second screen. I just think very few games on the DS line have ever really used it meaningfully for much more than Map/Menus.

Even if it is a really lazy use of the second screen, that in and of itself doesn't make it a bad use. I'm sure as hell not going to complain about getting clutter off the main screen.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Using it for maps and menus can have meaning as long as it isn't shoehorned in. ZombiU as an example doesn't let you pause the game when you check your inventory. When you check it your character gets down and opens up/starts picking through his backpack which limits your viewpoint, you then have to look at the Gamepad to equip/manipulate your stuff. That's awesome.

Nintendo Land also has a few Pac-Man Vs. sort of games on it, again, really awesome use of it that provides an experience only it can provide. Hopefully unlike with the DS though, after having such great stuff in 2006/2007 it doesn't peter out to just "look at the Gamepad to see your health."

Liam Acerbus
Sep 17, 2007



Welp, my roommate and I just preorded Wii Us from Walmart--me a Basic and him a Deluxe. We got them without the bundles. It got charged, so I guess that means they aren't sold out!

Chaltab
Feb 16, 2011

So shocked someone got me an avatar!


kater posted:

I don't know. Having only 1 gb of useable RAM could possibly leave it worse off than the Wii was, depending on the rumors and the tide.
What are the current rumors? Even to be proportional to the difference between Wii and the rest of 7th gen, they'd have to have at least 5GB. At that point it's diminishing returns because no game yet created has used that much RAM, even on PCs where configurations with 16GB are common on high-end gaming machines.

Cherokee Jack
Dec 27, 2005



In we have EB Games instead of Game Stop (though it's the same company) so what are my chances of pre-ordering a non-deluxe console after work tomorrow? Okay, good, or poo poo-out-of-luck? I wouldn't mind having the deluxe version but my wife likes the white one more and would rather save the money and put it towards another game. Also with EB/GS do you have to pay the full pre-order in advance or just a percentage?

I'm not even a huge Nintendo fan, I haven't owned a Nintendo console since the original NES (I do have a DS Lite and DSi) but there's something about the Wii U that really appeals to me.

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW


Cherokee Jack posted:

In we have EB Games instead of Game Stop (though it's the same company) so what are my chances of pre-ordering a non-deluxe console after work tomorrow? Okay, good, or poo poo-out-of-luck? I wouldn't mind having the deluxe version but my wife likes the white one more and would rather save the money and put it towards another game. Also with EB/GS do you have to pay the full pre-order in advance or just a percentage?

I'm not even a huge Nintendo fan, I haven't owned a Nintendo console since the original NES (I do have a DS Lite and DSi) but there's something about the Wii U that really appeals to me.

Just give them a call before you go.

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real

MUFFlNS posted:

Nintendo have currently positioned themselves where because they're first out the gate, they can wrangle a lot of quick ports from third parties who are willing to test the waters with the Wii U for minimal cost and effort. Will Nintendo still have smooth sailing once the next PlayStation and Xbox release? Chances are very slim, and if you're expecting third party publishers to prioritize the Wii U just because it has a bigger install base, you need only look at the Wii to see that simply doesn't work. Third party games sell terribly on Nintendo consoles which is why publishers abandoned Nintendo.

Well not only does Nintendo have the 'first out the gate' thing going for them, but the leap from the Wii to the Wii U will be quite significant. Graphically New Super Mario Brothers Wii looks dull and muddy in comparison to the Wii U version. Even though the Wii U is now pretty much on par with the 360 and PS3 visually, my Nintendo franchises are going to look a hell of a lot better, and that right there is a reason to upgrade for me.

I have no idea what Sony or Microsoft have in store, but it's really going to have to blow me out of the water to get my to buy within the first year or two of its release. I'm assuming that after the new Sony/Microsoft consoles launch a lot of the Third Party companies are still going to be making essentially PS3/360 ports for at least the first year. They will have their system exclusives, sure, but is that going to be enough for the Wii U to increase it's lead over the competition? I have no idea, but this round is going to be interesting.

I'm probably in the minority here...

Policenaut
Jul 11, 2008



Cherokee Jack posted:

In we have EB Games instead of Game Stop (though it's the same company) so what are my chances of pre-ordering a non-deluxe console after work tomorrow? Okay, good, or poo poo-out-of-luck? I wouldn't mind having the deluxe version but my wife likes the white one more and would rather save the money and put it towards another game. Also with EB/GS do you have to pay the full pre-order in advance or just a percentage?

I'm not even a huge Nintendo fan, I haven't owned a Nintendo console since the original NES (I do have a DS Lite and DSi) but there's something about the Wii U that really appeals to me.

I just pre-ordered mine today from EB Games and things might be good for you. I live just an hour or so north of Toronto and my local EB Games had a ton of open spots for Wii U regular. The cashier actually laughed and told me that they hadn't gotten a single regular pre-order because everyone was asking for the deluxe model! In any case, I had to put a $50 deposit down towards the console when I made my pre-order.

-CHA
Jun 20, 2004

OBJECTION! OUENDAN!

Policenaut posted:

I just pre-ordered mine today from EB Games and things might be good for you. I live just an hour or so north of Toronto and my local EB Games had a ton of open spots for Wii U regular. The cashier actually laughed and told me that they hadn't gotten a single regular pre-order because everyone was asking for the deluxe model! In any case, I had to put a $50 deposit down towards the console when I made my pre-order.


This seems to be the case at a lot of places I have looked at.

From what it sounds like anyone who wants a system will have a strong chance to get one, it may not be the deluxe, but the opportunity to get one is there.

al-azad
May 28, 2009



Chaltab posted:

What are the current rumors? Even to be proportional to the difference between Wii and the rest of 7th gen, they'd have to have at least 5GB. At that point it's diminishing returns because no game yet created has used that much RAM, even on PCs where configurations with 16GB are common on high-end gaming machines.

Crytek said they would like to see 8gb next console cycle. I definitely believe RAM is the most crippling factor in consoles but that's pretty overkill for a dedicated system.

PaletteSwappedNinja
Jun 3, 2008

Big Games Poster


The rumours are all over the place, particularly in regards to the next Xbox which may or may not be positioning itself as a Kinect media hub first and a console second.

Cherokee Jack
Dec 27, 2005



Paper Jam Dipper posted:

Just give them a call before you go.

I have to pick up a few groceries after work tomorrow and EB Games is about 30 seconds away from the store by car in the same direction so I probably will just stop in. Advantages of being in a small town. If it were out of the way I'd definitely call.

Policenaut posted:

I just pre-ordered mine today from EB Games and things might be good for you. I live just an hour or so north of Toronto and my local EB Games had a ton of open spots for Wii U regular. The cashier actually laughed and told me that they hadn't gotten a single regular pre-order because everyone was asking for the deluxe model! In any case, I had to put a $50 deposit down towards the console when I made my pre-order.

I'm rural Manitoba which means my EB Games will either have quite a bit left or they will be receiving 3 units between the two versions.

$50 is fine. If I hadn't purchased over $800 in astronomy equipment on Friday I could have pre-ordered one then and there. I just didn't want to spend any more that day than I already did.

Bobnumerotres
Jun 20, 2010


al-azad posted:

Crytek said they would like to see 8gb next console cycle. I definitely believe RAM is the most crippling factor in consoles but that's pretty overkill for a dedicated system.

Considering that you could do Crysis 2 on 512 MB, eh.

Quest For Glory II
Dec 17, 2003



al-azad posted:

Crytek said they would like to see 8gb next console cycle. I definitely believe RAM is the most crippling factor in consoles but that's pretty overkill for a dedicated system.
No way. Most you'll see is maybe 3GB, but that's because Sony isnt afraid to sell a console at $600 with a smug look on their face.

But no matter how much GB there is, at least 1 is gonna end up dedicated to the OS for all of the consoles, if they plan on having completely integrated operating systems in everything you do. So the gap won't be large there.

evilalien
Jul 29, 2005

Knowledge is born from Curiosity.


Quest For Glory II posted:

No way. Most you'll see is maybe 3GB, but that's because Sony isnt afraid to sell a console at $600 with a smug look on their face.

I could maybe see 4GB but that is really pushing it. You all have to remember that consoles use GDDR which is a significantly more expensive than what you use in your computers.

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



PaletteSwappedNinja posted:

The rumours are all over the place, particularly in regards to the next Xbox which may or may not be positioning itself as a Kinect media hub first and a console second.

If the XBox rumors wind up being true then I may just skip their next iteration. But that's assuming that they're true and you can't believe anything you hear about a next gen console until you get the truth right from the horse's mouth.

Bombadilillo
Feb 28, 2009


Console architecture really inst comparable to a pc setup. Would it really bump a price up 100-200$ to double the ram? Is the ram used here that special? I know the edram is. I just don't get it.

The Operative
Mar 15, 2012

I'd rather run over you with my car!


Hobo Siege posted:

Consider that this thing is going to be rendering three screens at max load, one of them in HD. That's going to be a fairly severe drag, and the unimpressive CPU isn't going to help. I don't think we're looking at an N64 > Dreamcast type leap here.
In terms of what you are talking about, the only major limitation is the streaming technology; otherwise, rendering two to three different instances of the game should theoretically be similar to managing a standard split screen multiplayer game on any other console.

Policenaut
Jul 11, 2008



Random Stranger posted:

If the XBox rumors wind up being true then I may just skip their next iteration. But that's assuming that they're true and you can't believe anything you hear about a next gen console until you get the truth right from the horse's mouth.

Yeah, pre-announcement console stuff can be some of the most outlandish poo poo. Anyone remember when people were saying PS3 would have "anti-used game tech" that would burn a serial code into your Blu-ray disc so it could only be recognized by that console?

Bombadilillo
Feb 28, 2009


^^^^Ive heard rumors of that this round too! It wont happen until all players decide to do it at once. If either major player did that theys just drive people to the competition. I cant rent games? gently caress that.

Random Stranger posted:

If the XBox rumors wind up being true then I may just skip their next iteration. But that's assuming that they're true and you can't believe anything you hear about a next gen console until you get the truth right from the horse's mouth.

I hope the rumors are true because I can ignore the nexbox, I dont need another media hub and I hate kinect. If the ps4 isn't substantially better looking or getting games that can't be ported to WiiU I wont bother.

Bombadilillo fucked around with this message at Sep 17, 2012 around 02:59

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



Policenaut posted:

Yeah, pre-announcement console stuff can be some of the most outlandish poo poo. Anyone remember when people were saying PS3 would have "anti-used game tech" that would burn a serial code into your Blu-ray disc so it could only be recognized by that console?

That didn't stop people from claiming that all the next gen systems this time around would have that.

al-azad
May 28, 2009



Policenaut posted:

Yeah, pre-announcement console stuff can be some of the most outlandish poo poo. Anyone remember when people were saying PS3 would have "anti-used game tech" that would burn a serial code into your Blu-ray disc so it could only be recognized by that console?

Well, Sony seems to have refocused these rumors onto the Vita because they're trying their damned hardest to piss off everyone who owns it.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



A lot of it was based on the word of paranoid software pirates. A few PSX developers (Capcom in particular) devised a copy protection that was actually very effective for about two years. There was paranoia that the next step would be the games being locked to your system, with small rumblings of this even when the PS2 was coming out.

I gotta agree about the XBox though, I buy digital games all the time but if the next iteration is some subscription Live hub thing I'm not gonna touch it with a ten foot pole.

Bombadilillo
Feb 28, 2009


So the gamepad has a camera right. So when games come out that give you a buy new bonus or some such, is there anything stopping them from having 2D barcodes or something similar as opposed to entering ridiculous codes.

The Operative
Mar 15, 2012

I'd rather run over you with my car!


Bombadilillo posted:

So the gamepad has a camera right. So when games come out that give you a buy new bonus or some such, is there anything stopping them from having 2D barcodes or something similar as opposed to entering ridiculous codes.

They could, but I would imagine that it requires more effort for them to implement than it's worth.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Bombadilillo posted:

So the gamepad has a camera right. So when games come out that give you a buy new bonus or some such, is there anything stopping them from having 2D barcodes or something similar as opposed to entering ridiculous codes.

Wouldn't it be really easy to crack something like that though? I guess ideally you'd be able to just take a picture of the code and have it recognize the characters. We're at a point where you can deposit a check with your cell phone camera, the Gamepad should be able to handled twelve characters in a uniform line or whatever.

Bobnumerotres
Jun 20, 2010


So when is the next Nintendo Direct scheduled? I heard they were going to reveal all the details about the miiverse and online play.

Bombadilillo
Feb 28, 2009


The Operative posted:

They could, but I would imagine that it requires more effort for them to implement than it's worth.

Just one app in the homepage or store or however they set it up that gets the dlc. You cant "crack" it because its still just imputing 26 letters and numbers.

It would be useful for gift cards too. Just scann the card and moneys sent to your account! With a big focus on digital dist. I hope they are thinking about these things.

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PaletteSwappedNinja
Jun 3, 2008

Big Games Poster


Bobnumerotres posted:

So when is the next Nintendo Direct scheduled? I heard they were going to reveal all the details about the miiverse and online play.

They're never scheduled, they just spring 'em on us a day or so in advance.

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