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WickedIcon posted:Also jesus gently caress, is the massive hateboner everyone has for Urobuchi serious or is it just anime pseudo-hipsterism since most of what he's done is so universally beloved? He honestly hasn't done a single thing that I haven't loving loved, and the only thing where I can actually articulate a reason why anyone would dislike it is Fate/zero, which I thought was a little exposition-heavy and slow at times. People like different things, and there's really only one person making their dislike of the show about Urobuchi. I'll keep watching, Fate/Zero had a really dumb (hour long) first episode and it was pretty great overall, maybe this'll get better too.
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Oct 12, 2012 07:29
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Eh, it wasn't nearly as bad as the long spoiler post made it out to be in my opinion. I loved Fate and Madoka from the first episode, so it's certainly disappointing. Episode 1 of this just felt lacking. Zetsuen no Tempest and Shin Sekai Yori had much better first episodes. There wasn't nearly as much crying as I'd been led to believe. I don't recall seeing a single tear, actually. There also wasn't any crying in the super frustrating "stand there while poo poo goes down" sense. The protagonist spoke up and took action. As for the exposition complaints, it was the first episode. It wasn't good, but I can forgive it so long as it's smoother from here on. It's still better than the first episode of K.
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Oct 12, 2012 07:58
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To be honest, I only loved Fate/zero from the first episode because I had already read the F/sn visual novel and knew it was going to get awesome sooner or later, and only loved Madoka from the first episode because I got in really late and had some of the early batshit craziness spoiled for me. Otherwise it would have taken a three-episode test for both. But that's neither here nor there.
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Oct 12, 2012 08:09
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So what the hell did the guns shoot to make that dude explode anyway? The guy that got shot in the opening didn't explode at all.
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Oct 12, 2012 08:37
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This is actually a very interesting anime for this season. I am definately going to continue watching this anime. Also by the way, toward the end, anyone able to comprehend/guess what was Shinya trying to say to Akane?
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Oct 12, 2012 09:13
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wfwon posted:This is actually a very interesting anime for this season. I am definately going to continue watching this anime. I assumed he was reminding her she was allowed to shoot him, partially not expecting her to actually do so.
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Oct 12, 2012 09:29
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WickedIcon posted:Also jesus gently caress, is the massive hateboner everyone has for Urobuchi serious or is it just anime pseudo-hipsterism since most of what he's done is so universally beloved? He honestly hasn't done a single thing that I haven't loving loved, and the only thing where I can actually articulate a reason why anyone would dislike it is Fate/zero, which I thought was a little exposition-heavy and slow at times. Yes, clearly no one could actually dislike any of Urobuchi's stuff, because he's popular and you've loved everything he's done so, obviously all us haters are just hipsters hating on Mr. Popular. You know, none of us who didn't like the show have, like, explained reasons why we felt the episode was flawed beyond redemption in detail. Do you guys actually read the negative posts or do you just understand "I didn't like it and thought it was bad" and proceed directly to "omg how could you hate this thing I like? There's nothing wrong with it! You shouldn't feel different things from me about things I like! You're being too harsh! You just hate it because it's popular!"? Where are you even seeing a "massive hateboner for Urobuchi"? There are like 2-3 people who really didn't like the show in this thread, and again, I think we've all put more than sufficient effort into explaining exactly why we feel the way we do about the show. Unless I missed something, I think the only negative mentions of Urobuchi explicitly are things to the effect of "well it's Urobuchi, so I don't know why I expected better" but you know, it's not like he has consistent problems with his writing or a particular style that could warrant such a comment. Once again, seriously guys? I'm not replying to every positive post with "Oh my god, why are you people sucking Urobuchi's dick so hard? I've hated everything he's made so are you just getting on the hipster irony train by liking something obviously terrible?" Why can't you just accept that some people don't feel the same way as you do about things?
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Oct 12, 2012 10:11
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Yeah, it was a bad first episode, but for reasons that usually affect first episodes (awkward exposition, fellating it's own premise). I am willing to give it a three episode test, at the very least. My main problem is how the guns seem to only have two settings, "paralyzing beam so weak that it can fail" and "unnecessarily violent and inhumane death". It feels as if there is a lot of subtext to be read there, but the show has been so hamfisted about presenting it's elements that I just don't want to think anything over. I am glad that Future Police is an Equal Opportunity employer 
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Oct 12, 2012 11:24
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paragon1 posted:So what the hell did the guns shoot to make that dude explode anyway? The guy that got shot in the opening didn't explode at all. Actually he kind of did. I saw it the first time I viewed the episode, but at the time I thought it was his equipment shattering apart or something: I was still kind of surprised when the dude exploded at the end. As for *what* they shoot, well, its fairly clear that Dominator's are an exotic energy weapon rather than a projectile weapon. So much like the actual psychopass technology they aren't really under a great deal of pressure to explain the specifics. Maybe it causes organic compounds to decompose into explosives? 
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Oct 12, 2012 11:56
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WickedIcon posted:Also jesus gently caress, is the massive hateboner everyone has for Urobuchi serious or is it just anime pseudo-hipsterism since most of what he's done is so universally beloved? He honestly hasn't done a single thing that I haven't loving loved, and the only thing where I can actually articulate a reason why anyone would dislike it is Fate/zero, which I thought was a little exposition-heavy and slow at times. I've enjoyed a lot of Urobuchi's work (Saya, Madoka, I thought Fate/Z was decent, Phantom was okay) but that doesn't prevent me from realizing this show just isn't that great so far. A bad first episode isn't a death sentence and I really don't agree with the idea that dissenting opinion is equal to having a "hateboner" specifically when one of the major gimmicks of the show is a tried trope of Urobuchi's. You can only do so much 'grim dark brutaledgy' before you become juvenile and too into your own gimmick. That being said, the failures aren't entirely Urobuchi's fault. Poor direction, strange character design, and a (poor) cash-in on All-star generic voice actors marked this one for the mediocre bin before the first episode even aired. When the least phoned-in Seiyuu of a show is a character actor like Ishida, it doesn't spell good things for the rest of the performances. Overall, I think it's unfair to blame it all on Urobuchi considering it isn't just his fault, but I wouldn't say it's completely overreacting. The show just plain isn't too good. Who knows how it could turn out, but it had a bad start.
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Oct 12, 2012 11:58
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Giving the first episode a D. Things I liked: The overall industrial and architectural design on show is great. Particularly enjoyed the cutesy robots and the segmented paddy wagon. The CG lighting of the city is rather nice and it captures that always-raining-in-cyberpunktown feel that I enjoy. Things I disliked: The writing was terrible. I can't understand how they managed to storyboard this without realising/doing anything about how bad it is. I thought the big character sheet posted on the first page was more engaging and deftly written than the dialogue in the actual episode. Absolutely everything is told. I can understand exposition in a first episode, yet here nothing was left to the watcher's inference and it felt incredibly patronising. All the scenes with the latent criminal and his victim were hilariously clumsy - taking away all of his dialogue would probably have made those scenes more intense and believable. Instead we get this bullshit vaudeville villain schtick that blows away any empathy we might have had for him for being marked as a criminal while he was still innocent. I can see where the show is going in terms of questioning the system, yet I feel they really missed an opportunity with this character. They could've actually shown his actions prior to kidnapping the girl rather than wasting it on the long exposition outside the neighbourhood with Akane. And, yeah, I echo the thoughts about character designs. For a show about a team of cops it really dropped the ball on making the crew interesting. The premise has some potential, though it was squandered in this first episode. I'll watch the second episode, but really, that's the last chance. Having a pretty backdrop and some cute mechanical design can only go so far to keep my interest.
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Oct 12, 2012 13:20
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They have happy face police drones and the Caduceus symbol in the back of the police jackets but in the background there is an automatic psychological evaluation system labeling people for straight-up termination... This has some interesting implications like what kind of world would it be if all criminality is classified as a mental defect and police officers as medical personnel with guns? Getting their automatic on-the-spot diagnosis right in their gun sights... I read through the complaints about the first episode and about the only thing I agree with is the heavy-handed exposition, which should and could have been done more naturally. About the stuff that happened: Rookie gets paired up with the most veteran guy and gets told to just tag along and watch and learn. After some running around the suspect gets apprehended but at this point the victim has suffered enough psychological trauma that the acute mental instability gets her labeled for non-lethal takedown. (From the fact that the police employs people for which the fancy gun's crime-o-meter shows quite impressive scores we can see that the number measures something more general than some certainty of committing a crime.) The rookie, despite (or because of) her book-learnin', can't agree with this (even though it was 100% correct thing to do in hindsight) and accidentally causes the situation to drastically escalate. Rookie still manages to save the victim from both suicide and a lethal takedown and in the end no one gets hurt (apart from the original perp who was more or less liquified.) Rookie gets to write a report about how she almost hosed everything up. To me, everything made sense in the setting they were in.
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Oct 12, 2012 13:34
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I have very loose standards if a show doesn't make me angry I probably will be okay with it. The dumb ham-fisted exposition and the whole rookie out of her depth thing being taken to an insane level was bad but not a show killer for me. Most of the first episode is a show I'd probably watch when I remembered it. That is until what happened in the end. Akane freaking out over tasing the woman was loving stupid. She knows it's not lethal. The entire contrived bit with the gas and the lighter making her crazy spike would have been avoided if Akane hadn't interfered. It was just such forced bullshit to cram in more exposition on the city into the episode. Just an incredibly inept scene that should have been done better. I'll probably check out the next episode but I'm not going to be in a hurry to do so. Guyver fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Oct 12, 2012 |
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Oct 12, 2012 14:10
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So in an attempt to make something so different and not-annoyingly-moe, they cram a generic and annoying hypocritical-pacifist-warrior into our eardrums. Okay.
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Oct 12, 2012 14:52
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The tone and setting for this show are very different from anything else out this season. That alone could be enough to keep me interested, or at least give it the standard three-episode test. Also, I'm a shameless Urobuchi fan. paragon1 posted:From the way the protagonist was acting, you'd think she'd been in training for a building inspectors job or something, and was assigned to her current job by accident. Just a deer caught in the headlights all the way through. She was told by Masaoka (old dude) to forget everything she'd learned up to that point because it wasn't going to do anything to prepare her for actually working in the field. Just about everything Akane did after that was to drive that point home as dramatically as possible. WickedIcon posted:Does anyone else get major Dredd vibes from this? Not Judge Dredd as a whole, but specifically the movie from this year. I wouldn't say 'major' by any stretch of the imagination, but there were a couple of points that reminded slightly me of the movie's tone. Chas McGill posted:A Judge Dredd anime would be so loving good. God, yes. Command Ant fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Oct 12, 2012 |
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Oct 12, 2012 16:30
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A Judge Dredd anime would be so loving good.
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Oct 12, 2012 16:35
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I certainly understand a lot of criticisms people have been making against this show, but I wasn't too bothered by it. If the episodes from here on out have just as much exposition vomiting, I might reconsider my stance on things. That said, I'm feeling pretty good about this one. I like the setting, and I'd wager new girl won't be quite so useless from here on out. This first episode just felt like a ton of "textbooks don't prepare you for exploding heads" kinda stuff, so she should get better with each episode. Man, pretty awesome reception for just one episode, though. I felt like this thread was about to spontaneously combust, with how heated it was getting in here. 
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Oct 12, 2012 16:39
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Command Ant posted:She was told by Masaoka (old dude) to forget everything she'd learned up to that point because it wasn't going to do anything to prepare her for actually working in the field. Just about everything Akane did after that was to drive that point home as dramatically as possible. When Akane got scared and pointed the gun at the bum. That was what that line is for. Not having every single thing explained to her. You want to see something that does this right? Go watch Serpico or any of the million cop movies with a rookie in them. Guyver fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Oct 12, 2012 |
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Oct 12, 2012 16:48
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Not the strongest first episode, as it spent the majority of the time laying the groundwork. Still going to give this a three episode test though.
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Oct 12, 2012 16:53
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Good_Haro posted:Yes, clearly no one could actually dislike any of Urobuchi's stuff, because he's popular and you've loved everything he's done so, obviously all us haters are just hipsters hating on Mr. Popular. You know, none of us who didn't like the show have, like, explained reasons why we felt the episode was flawed beyond redemption in detail. Did I seriously make you angry enough to drop 10 bucks on a red title? Jesus gently caress, I should never underestimate neckbeard rage. 
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Oct 12, 2012 17:14
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WickedIcon posted:Did I seriously make you angry enough to drop 10 bucks on a red title? Jesus gently caress, I should never underestimate neckbeard rage. Nope, not me. But if it makes you feel better you can continue to believe that.
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Oct 12, 2012 17:25
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I thought it was okay. A lot of exposition for stuff I could have figured out myself if it had been shown the way New World, for example, does, but that's forgivable if it stop happening in the next couple episodes.
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Oct 12, 2012 17:28
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Just like, chipping in that I thought this was a overall good first episode. Like, I had the moment where it was like "Why is he explaining all this inane poo poo to her" "Oh right exposition" and I stopped caring past that point. Unlike every other first ep this season, there were no parts where I needed to stop watching to go scream into a pillow or something. Even the monologuey scenes were cut short JUST before they became boring. Calling it well paced would be an exaggeration since it wasn't, but it certainly never let itself slip in any entirely unwatchable scenes, which is more than my personal experience with the rest of the shows this season can attest to. Past the fact that there are worse animes about, I'd actually say as far as entertainment value, I enjoyed this the most of any 1st episode this season, even more than the stellar Chu2koi. Posts to the effect that Urobuchi has stained his family honour or something are just kind of confusing to me.
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Oct 12, 2012 17:36
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Good_Haro posted:Nope, not me. But if it makes you feel better you can continue to believe that. Given that you're the only one who absolutely vomited with anger at me really liking Urobuchi's stuff, and I've also seen you melt the gently caress down in other threads over people disagreeing with you (how's the gay rape porn translation going, btw?), I'd say I'm gonna continue to believe that.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 12, 2012 18:19
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WickedIcon posted:Given that you're the only one who absolutely vomited with anger at me really liking Urobuchi's stuff, and I've also seen you melt the gently caress down in other threads over people disagreeing with you (how's the gay rape porn translation going, btw?), I'd say I'm gonna continue to believe that. I "vomited with anger" at you? I don't care if you like Urobuchi's stuff. I just pointed out that other people in this thread have different opinions and that doesn't mean that everyone has a "massive hateboner" for him when literally no one in the thread was doing that (also how 3 people tops = everyone is beyond me). Are you just borderline illiterate or do you just stop reading the instant you realize that someone doesn't share your opinion?
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Oct 12, 2012 18:33
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I agree that this first episode was clunky and way too exposition-heavy, but I'm interested at seeing where it goes. I think Urobuchi's a better ideas guy than a writer for sure though. One thing I was considering is this: The idea was that the raped woman's situation was so stressful that it altered her brain chemistry, making her more likely to become a criminal. I would think that after the whole ordeal, being zapped into paralysis and hauled off to therapy-jail would probably only increase her stress levels. The rookie said she did a thesis on the subject of psycho-pass contagion, so maybe she has a different outlook on the whole thing, that it's the system itself and the tendency of marking victims as future criminals that actually produces the criminals. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Everyone else seems to defer to the technology pretty blindly, so I'm hoping that her motivation for interrupting the paralysis/execution will be well thought out. Maybe not though. Honestly, my biggest beef was that the woman was not a criminal, then she was a criminal who needed to be paralyzed, then she needed to be executed, and ten seconds later she was back to only being paralyze-worthy. The technology seems pretty bad if it will let you kill someone and then quickly change its mind.
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Oct 12, 2012 18:38
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I mean it is the whole "The abused are likely to in turn become abusers" conundrum on the surface. But I note that they talk about the SIBYL system or whatever. And the way that they mention it, it might not just be the psychopass, like it's some kind of AI that runs the place. It may be that in some cases it is directly deciding "For all intents and purposes this person can't be rehabilitated even with therapy." It might have just not anticipated that anyone in the area could provide rapid on-site psychotherapy like she did and thus diffuse the situation. "Technically the psychological damage inflicted on her won't be permanent if someone says something nice to her in the next 20 seconds, but the only staff in the area are psychopaths and some idiot so yeah that isn't going to happen".
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Oct 12, 2012 19:02
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lodoubt posted:I mean it is the whole "The abused are likely to in turn become abusers" conundrum on the surface. I hadn't considered the idea that quickly-administered therapy might de-criminalize someone, but I like the idea. The mental health police aspect of this show is way more interesting to me than the cyberpunk setting they used to approach the idea. I'm hoping the show develops along those lines.
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Oct 12, 2012 19:56
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WickedIcon posted:Given that you're the only one who absolutely vomited with anger at me really liking Urobuchi's stuff, and I've also seen you melt the gently caress down in other threads over people disagreeing with you (how's the gay rape porn translation going, btw?), I'd say I'm gonna continue to believe that. WickedIcon please stop posting bad posts. Good_Haro's allowed to not like things and she raises a few good points as to why she doesn't like the show. Some of these points are even things that people who are enjoying the show and are looking forward to the rest agree on (overloaded exposition, some actions near the end are kind of dumb, etc.).
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Oct 12, 2012 23:38
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So... I think it's too early in the game to call it on this anime. However, I do have some comments. Was that gasoline? Doesn't gasoline that's left out generate fumes that are extremely flammable? A friend of mine recently ended up in the emergency room because he didn't know this fact (maybe he's stupid too). I did some searching: quote:Gasoline is readily available and routinely used in most households. In spite of the routine use of gasoline, many people are unaware of or unappreciative of the dangers of gasoline. Gasoline is dangerous because it is highly volatile – the fumes are capable of ignition up to 12 feet away from a pooled source. This inherent danger is further multiplied by its explosive potential. Flammables burn at close to room temperature (100 degrees F), when they are near a spark, flame, or even static electricity. It can float on water and may spread long distances, making ignition and flash back possible. Gasoline vapor is highly explosive and may ignite as a “fireball” with a temperature of 15,000 degrees F. As soon as that female rape victim pulled out the lighter, I was ready for a giant fireball. When she lit it and it burned, just a foot or so away from all of this spilled gasoline, I was agog! My comment on the immense amount of exposition. The guns in this anime talk to their users. That's okay. In fact, they pretty-well explain exactly what's going on. Therefore, there was little need for the massive exposition explaining how the guns work since the guns explained it themselves for us. All we needed was for the rookie officer to point the gun at her superior and have it tell us that he was not a criminal and the trigger was locked. Then, she would point it to the older guy she was with and it would tell us he was a mid-level criminal and the gun was set to stun. Then, point it at the crazy-man and have it tell us he was a high-level criminal and it was set to kill. No further explanation needed. Also, I didn't understand the first few moments of this episode with the two guys meeting around the spiral staircase. Shinya Kogami is the guy with our heroine later on, but who is the other guy and why did we see that scene?
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Oct 13, 2012 00:22
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Command Ant posted:
That would be like me spending two days training to be a stocker at Wal-Mart, and then learning that I would spend my days handling weapons grade plutonium. Are we seriously expected to believe a law enforcement officer, one of whose PRIMARY DUTIES is to shoot co-workers who get out of line, was never trained to be psychologically prepared to use deadly force, or to have even handled her duty weapon before? That a massive city's law enforcement body is just that incompetent? And everyone in the field knows this? And the senior officer on the scene sends her off on her own anyway? I'm sorry but that strains even my suspension of disbelief. Edit: Let me try to phrase this differently. I couldn't see how Akane's actions would differ from literally anyone off the street being handed a gun and told, "Hey you, we need to capture some crazy guy whose taken a woman hostage, do whatever the guy in the trenchcoat says, but be careful, he's a potential criminal." And I feel that that is a problem. paragon1 fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Oct 13, 2012 |
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Oct 13, 2012 00:43
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paragon1 posted:was never trained to be psychologically prepared to use deadly force What if that training would automatically make you a latent criminal? That would explain the existence of Enforcers too; only latent criminals are actually willing to kill someone, so if you need police for violent situations...
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Oct 13, 2012 01:02
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Amarkov posted:What if being psychologically prepared to use deadly force automatically makes you a latent criminal? That would explain the existence of Enforcers too; they need them, because only latent criminals are actually willing to kill someone. So anyone with actual police training ends up with a high criminal index? That would be a pretty interesting twist, because would cast even more doubt on the viability of the system and bypass most of the complaints about how awful Akane is.
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Oct 13, 2012 01:06
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That seems pretty likely to me, considering how the enforcers mostly behaved like professionals instead of bloodthirsty maniacs.
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Oct 13, 2012 01:16
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I'm calling now that most or all of the Enforcers are former Inspectors who cracked. In fact, I'm guessing that might have been what we didn't hear Shinya yell at Akane, and I'm pretty sure that Masaoka was about to tell her as well before he got interrupted.
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Oct 13, 2012 02:12
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paragon1 posted:Are we seriously expected to believe a law enforcement officer, one of whose PRIMARY DUTIES is to shoot co-workers who get out of line, was never trained to be psychologically prepared to use deadly force, or to have even handled her duty weapon before? That a massive city's law enforcement body is just that incompetent? And everyone in the field knows this? I get the feeling that a lot of this society functions very automatically (from the psycho-pass scanning to the robo-guards to the guns' target analysis to the very idea of Sybil), so someone just said "top of her class, must be good to go" and that was the end of it.
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Oct 13, 2012 02:18
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The optomist in me wants to think that the amount of ignorance Akane displays about her job is a deliberate writing choice intended to show just how screwed up the system is that she ever made it into the field. But the poor handling of the rest of the writing what with all the infodumping sort of makes me doubt it. I want to be able to give the same amount of credit to the somewhat bi-polar Psycho-Pass system and its labeling of the hostage for termination and believe that the system is calculating more than just potential criminal tendancies but also potential cost to society in a cold machine like manner and determining that it'd just be more efficent to remove the victim rather than expend the resources to treat her mental trauma. But again, the poor writing in other areas makes me doubt this is the actual case. All-in-all I think the premise has potential but so far it's been handled very poorly. Hopefully the next couple of episodes will be redeeming. Also, that opening sequence, so goddamn stertypical shounen.. Mr. Stay-Puft posted:I'm calling now that most or all of the Enforcers are former Inspectors who cracked. Amstrad fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Oct 13, 2012 |
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Oct 13, 2012 03:14
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Yeah, this show could turn out to be pretty deep, incredibly shallow or even jump back and forth between the two at random. I'm betting on the third one.
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Oct 13, 2012 03:19
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WickedIcon posted:I haven't watched it yet, but it sounds like it's pretty typical Urobuchi, i.e. if I liked Madoka, Fate/zero and his VNs I'll probably dig this too. Does that sound about right? I love Madoka and Fate/zero, but I hated this.
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Oct 13, 2012 23:00
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Maybe this show is a commentary on japan's abnormally high conviction rate (99.7% in 2007, there's more on it on wikipedia), idk It seems like the sort of thing that would make a 14 year old really think, but at my age its message is quite passe. If there's more gore I'll stick around (I am a 12 year old)
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Oct 15, 2012 20:32
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