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Edit: wrong thread dammit
R.D. Mangles fucked around with this message at Feb 20, 2013 around 21:37 |
| # ? Feb 20, 2013 21:34 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 04:48 |
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Like for example the Mariners can't really make a "fair" offer for Stanton because they can't trade Zunino yet, but they were willing to offer Taijuan Walker, Nick Franklin, Stephen Pryor, and either John Jaso or Charlie Furbush for Justin Upton, who is an inferior direct comparable to Stanton in both quality and contractual situation. I'm pretty sure if the Marlins were moving Upton that the Mariners would throw that package right back down on the table (and they'd also have James Paxton to dangle, and Danny Hultzen if Miami's a believer), and it's miles better than anything Philadelphia can do in real world or fantasy world where they have Singleton to toss in instead of Tommy Joseph.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 21:39 |
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Pumpkin McPastry posted:Phillies' fans perceptions are completely warped by their own experience of getting Oswalt for garbage and giving up Cliff Lee for garbage. To be fair that's every fan's perception of prospects they've heard the names of more than twice.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 21:41 |
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Can the Mariners not trade Zunino as a PTBNL yet? That time must be pretty close.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 21:41 |
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jeffersonlives posted:Like for example the Mariners can't really make a "fair" offer for Stanton because they can't trade Zunino yet, but they were willing to offer Taijuan Walker, Nick Franklin, Stephen Pryor, and either John Jaso or Charlie Furbush for Justin Upton, who is an inferior direct comparable to Stanton in both quality and contractual situation. I'm pretty sure if the Marlins were moving Upton that the Mariners would throw that package right back down on the table (and they'd also have James Paxton to dangle, and Danny Hultzen if Miami's a believer), and it's miles better than anything Philadelphia can do in real world or fantasy world where they have Singleton to toss in instead of Tommy Joseph. I'd be down with that trade.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 21:54 |
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The closest straight up trade I can think of would be Stanton for Harper, both being more or less 80 power guys who play solid to good COF? I'm not saying they're totally equal and Harper has more service time, while Stanton is a known MVP candidate, but they're probably the most similar young players.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 21:57 |
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Bob Shabazz posted:Can the Mariners not trade Zunino as a PTBNL yet? That time must be pretty close. In theory they can, but in reality these kinds of things never happen for that length of time with the high level guys because you're not going to shut Zunino down for half of the season and there's no replacement PTBNL you could name as a contingency if Zunino injures something during the period in the Mariners farm. Like, Drew Pomeranz as the key piece named as a PTBNL in the Ubaldo Jimenez deal wasn't a big deal because it was two weeks so they just sent him on a vacation to miss a couple starts, but with Zunino you're talking about icing the guy from now to the first week in July.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 21:58 |
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To put it another way, If you went back to 2012 and traded the Top 5 prospects the jays had (ie D'arnaud, the lansing 3 pitchers, and whoever else) for Stanton, that would still be a giagantic steal. Even if you included a good MLB player too, say Lawrie, I'd make that trade anyday.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 23:13 |
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Pumpkin McPastry posted:Phillies' fans perceptions are completely warped by their own experience of getting Oswalt for garbage and giving up Cliff Lee for garbage. To add to this, also getting Lee for garbage the first time. I think Ben Francisco provided more value than the sum of the package they gave up so far. Even the Halladay package has by now essentially become D'Arnaud a bunch of misses.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 23:29 |
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zapplez posted:To put it another way, If you went back to 2012 and traded the Top 5 prospects the jays had (ie D'arnaud, the lansing 3 pitchers, and whoever else) for Stanton, that would still be a giagantic steal. Even if you included a good MLB player too, say Lawrie, I'd make that trade anyday. Now I actually think you've gone too far.
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| # ? Feb 20, 2013 23:33 |
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Every time I think about the Cliff Lee trade, I remember Phillipe Aumont and I just laugh and laugh and laugh.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 05:59 |
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Politicalrancor posted:Every time I think about the Cliff Lee trade, I remember Phillipe Aumont and I just laugh and laugh and laugh. The Phillies are back to pretending Aumont is a prospect, actually, although he still can't throw strikes with any regularity. They're still at the starter stage of grief with Ethan Martin, though.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 06:04 |
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jeffersonlives posted:The Phillies are back to pretending Aumont is a prospect, actually, although he still can't throw strikes with any regularity. They're still at the starter stage of grief with Ethan Martin, though. They aren't going to get past denial very quickly when MLB.com is calling him a Top 100 prospect still.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 06:13 |
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Pumpkin McPastry posted:They aren't going to get past denial very quickly when MLB.com is calling him a Top 100 prospect still. How is a 24 year old repeating triple A a top 100 prospect?
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 06:46 |
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Pumpkin McPastry posted:They aren't going to get past denial very quickly when MLB.com is calling him a Top 100 prospect still.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 06:55 |
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Talking about Ethan Martin
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 06:57 |
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Harlock posted:Talking about Ethan Martin
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 07:01 |
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Give me all your outfielders and just walk away. Just walk away.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 09:07 |
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uublog posted:To add to this, also getting Lee for garbage the first time. I think Ben Francisco provided more value than the sum of the package they gave up so far. Even the Halladay package has by now essentially become D'Arnaud a bunch of misses. That's the problem with any trade for a star player: prospects bust. You have to aim as high as possible and not settle for anything less than a massive package. For example, in hindsight, here are the Mets' top 10 prospects at the time of the Santana trade: 1. Fernando Martinez, of 2. Deolis Guerra, rhp 3. Carlos Gomez, of 4. Kevin Mulvey, rhp 5. Eddie Kunz, rhp 6. Brant Rustich, rhp 7. Philip Humber, rhp 8. Jon Niese, lhp 9. Nathan Vineyard, lhp 10. Robert Parnell, rhp If Minnesota had received all 10 players, the ML WAR is almost even if you add up all those players vs. Santana in the time since the deal but I think, just roughly adding them up, Santana might be a few tenths of a point higher.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 14:33 |
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Vineyard is an odd case. He pitched like 3 games in the Mets' system and then never played again. Last I heard he was getting in trouble with the law in Georgia.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 15:13 |
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Rand alPaul posted:Give me all your outfielders and just walk away. hahahahaha
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 15:32 |
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Kyle Lohse does still not have a team to play for!
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 17:05 |
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You like scrappy white players, don't you?! Now I will trade my star outfielder by the power of my will alone!!
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 18:41 |
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tadashi posted:That's the problem with any trade for a star player: prospects bust. You have to aim as high as possible and not settle for anything less than a massive package. For example, in hindsight, here are the Mets' top 10 prospects at the time of the Santana trade: I'm not a Royals fan, but this good post makes me feel a little better for K.C. fans. But still, Jesus Christ.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 18:45 |
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tadashi posted:That's the problem with any trade for a star player: prospects bust. You have to aim as high as possible and not settle for anything less than a massive package. For example, in hindsight, here are the Mets' top 10 prospects at the time of the Santana trade: The Mets had a bottom of the league farm system at the time and just out of that top ten it's turned out a very good starter, a very good reliever, a sometimes decent speed and defense CF, and a backend starter just out of that top ten (if we extended a bit past ten you'd pick up a pretty decent shortstop in Ruben Tejada and whatever Daniel Murphy is), and I guess in theory Fernando Martinez may eventually get his act together too. That's not a bad outcome at all given that farm. The problem with the Santana trade is that the Twins picked the wrong guys. Even within the confines of the Mets deal, that trade looks fine if they picked Niese instead of Humber. The Red Sox made an offer including Jon Lester, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Jed Lowrie, but the Twins held out for Clay Buchholz. The Yankees made an offer including Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, and Melky Cabrera, but the Twins held out for Joba Chamberlain. But when the Twins demanded Deolis Guerra and Carlos Gomez together, Omar signed on the dotted line. So actually aiming high is what killed the Twins on the Santana trade.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 18:57 |
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The Twins actually wanted Lester and Ellsbury, which the Red Sox were unwilling to do. They had two separate packages surrounding them, the Twins wanted both. I do agree that it was handled very poorly. Gomez and Mulvey were later traded for good players, but then Bill Smith Bill Smithed his way out of that good fortune.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 19:41 |
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:The Twins actually wanted Lester and Ellsbury, which the Red Sox were unwilling to do. They had two separate packages surrounding them, the Twins wanted both. I've heard this both ways, but in the Ellsbury or Lester and not both versions Justin Masterson was included as well, and he's turned out fairly well too.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 20:52 |
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jeffersonlives posted:I've heard this both ways, but in the Ellsbury or Lester and not both versions Justin Masterson was included as well, and he's turned out fairly well too. I know. I wanted them to take one of the Red Sox offers at the time, but here we are. gently caress Bill Smith forever.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 20:58 |
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:I know. I wanted them to take one of the Red Sox offers at the time, but here we are. gently caress Bill Smith forever. Only thing that would have made it better would be if Humber had thrown his perfect game against the Twins.
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| # ? Feb 22, 2013 00:54 |
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White Sox traded for Conor Gillaspie. Seems like a  move and for an extra body to try-out for 3rd base. Am I missing something with him?
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| # ? Feb 22, 2013 19:37 |
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TUS posted:White Sox traded for Conor Gillaspie. Seems like a
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| # ? Feb 22, 2013 19:41 |
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Ex-Oriole Josh Bell is also in White Sox camp for that alleged purpose, so I'm sure he's not long for major league camp either
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| # ? Feb 22, 2013 19:45 |
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Bet you'd like Brent Lillibridge back, now, eh? I think I know the answer to that question.
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| # ? Feb 22, 2013 20:26 |
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Remember when the Giants inexplicably put a clause in Conor Gillaspie's first contract where they had to put him on their 40 man roster after he had like 100 PAs in the AZL/NWL? Some quality front office work there.
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| # ? Feb 22, 2013 21:52 |
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TUS posted:White Sox traded for Conor Gillaspie. Seems like a Gillaspie has no real arm to speak of, he was called up for a bit last season and there was a lot of single-bounce throws to first that the wide camera had to slow down to keep in the frame. He didn't have the range for second so he went to third, and doesn't have the strength for third, but he was a first-round guy once upon a time so the team I guess felt kind of obligated to respect that bad decision. After a game against the Dodgers where they realized he was a weak point in the defense and began of a hailstorm of like five  directed to him to field, the Giants benched him and called up another guy.The good news is the CWSox didn't give up much for him. trem_two posted:Remember when the Giants inexplicably put a clause in Conor Gillaspie's first contract where they had to put him on their 40 man roster after he had like 100 PAs in the AZL/NWL? Some quality front office work there. 
Craptacular! fucked around with this message at Feb 22, 2013 around 21:59 |
| # ? Feb 22, 2013 21:57 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 04:48 |
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Rand alPaul posted:Give me all your outfielders and just walk away. The rest of our teams just have some bland 50-60 year old white dude who looks like all the rest. You won that battle by a mile.
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| # ? Mar 13, 2013 18:51 |
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