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speng31b
May 8, 2010

Do the people getting 30fps have vertical sync turned on by any chance? Vsync will lock your framerate to either 60 or the nearest thing that evenly multiplies into 60, which for many people is 30.

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speng31b
May 8, 2010

Kire posted:

Are the humans all men? Or are there female space marines as well?

All men currently, but female is planned for a future update. The original marine model from waaaay back before even engine test stage was actually female, but I guess the model wasn't up to snuff with their standards so they canned it.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Carecat posted:

You don't know how happy I was when I bought a grenade launcher and found it had changed from the crappy beta thing to a weapon of mass destruction :dance:

Now where is my HMG?

HMG is now called a minigun attached to the exosuit, so you'll need to get an exosuit to experience old-school HMG madness.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Ramagamma posted:

Of 30 or so connection attempts today I've managed to get in a game once. Another 5 times i get into the map and have in instant timeout once I'm in the ready room. Regretting my purchase already.

The servers are flooded with new players and there are one or two release-day glitches to iron out. UWE has a track record of fixing these things literally within a day or two. I can think of a half-dozen AAA titles of late that weren't made by a team of 7 with a budgeting strategy that's, uh, let's say "flexible", that have had much choppier releases that were much less excusable.

Seriously, wait literally 24-48 hours for one of the best multiplayer shooters that has been released in a decade. Or if this sort of thing is too frustrating for you, just do what I do and mentally push back your "personal" launch date for any given title by a week (or several months in the case of something like Diablo 3) and increase your quality of life by large amounts because you get to play it after the launch jitters are gone (a phenomenon which is pretty much universal at this point, have you noticed?)

speng31b fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Oct 31, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Alehkhs posted:

They either need to tweak the "rich" infestation a bit or make it un-toggleable, because other wise it's just like toggleable vegetative cover in other multiplayer shooters: The "rich" version can obscure things from view that the minimal version does not, so people with the minimal version on have a very slight advantage. :(

I have a feeling that once they iron out the performance issues/weirdness it will no longer be optional.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

If you guys like this game and want to help out in some small may, you might want to look into helping to inflate the user score on Metacritic:

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/natural-selection-2

The Core posted:

Can't wait to play some NS 2. I had kind of written it off after I preordered it about 2 years ago. NS 1 was pretty much my favorite shooter way back when.

I haven't really been following the development all that much. If I hop into a game am I going to be alright if I played a ton of NS? I actually used to be a pretty decent commander, but don't know if I should hop in right away if there have been a ton of changes to build order and what not. Also I suppose knowing the maps well is also needed. Did they bring back any of the old maps? Or is it all new?

I am glad to see my all-time favorite combo of shotgun + jetpack is still around. Nothing better than being a one man wrecking crew, sneaking around assassinating aliens and destroying bases.

The core skills from NS translate well -- accuracy in fast-paced close combat. Commander is a different story, since that part of the game has changed pretty dramatically. Nothing to do there but practice a lot.

A few maps from the old game have been/are being brought back by community mappers, but most of it is new. And yes, map knowledge is very important -- you will want to spend most of your time not in combat with "C" pressed (minimap hotkey) to make sure you know what is happening and where you are going. After a few games of this you should start to learn the maps fairly well.

e for sexy press coverage:

Penny Arcade Report has an NS2 article up already. http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-10-year-struggle-to-bring-natural-selection-2-to-life

speng31b fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Oct 31, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

DelphiAegis posted:

I think there are definitely some balance changes to be made (skulks ripping apart a lonely travelling exo?)

I actually think this is intended, and it's a good balance choice. Exosuits are meant to be weaker if they aren't supported. During one of the casts or streams or interviews I think Charlie mentioned that he hadn't exactly anticipated exos being weak against skulks, but once it happened, he really liked it.

I like it, too. Exos are already designed to require support in the form of weld-trains, so it just means the weld-trains will also need to be somewhat proficient and cleaning up skulks. I think it worked out rather well. The only real balance issue with exos is that they are close to useless in competitive play because jetpacks scale so well with skill and exos are almost always too expensive to be a good choice.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Oct 31, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Bar Mitzvah posted:

This makes no sense to me.

Specs: GTX 680
i7 3770k (3.9ghz)
Shitloads of RAM

When I do training mode summit (exploration), my GPU MS is like 5-6 when looking at infestation. 70fps.

I have everything on high except Ambient Occlusion, which is at medium.

Anyone else having similar weirdness? I fail to see how someone with a 560 can be outperforming my 680...

Make sure your video driver is completely up-to-date. Also I wouldn't use exploration mode as any sort of benchmark because it's only recently been not-broken and a whole lot of things that drive actual performance aren't going on in exploration mode.

e: Also, 70fps is more than playable, so...

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Yeah AO has always been hugely expensive icing, it's fully possible that some combination of AO with the new infestation goes batshit on performance. If you're getting 70fps with AO turned on as your worst-case scenario there's really no reason to complain.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Downward Spiral posted:

After playing a few hours:
I don't believe that Flayra ever really warmed up to the competitive community, even with the constellation & pt program. So much in the way of quality of life stuff is just ignored and so much intentionally excised that I have trouble saying it's really a straight improvement.

The maps are really pretty though, and have always been the strong suit of Natural Selection and with a newer engine they're now downright gorgeous. Can't take that away from the game.

But a lot of the small stuff - no ease of multiple bindings (gotta dig through an .xml to find the names of all your commands), no FPS cap, intentional removal of old aircontrol, giant loving waypoint&scan sprites even worse than the original at times, terrible minimap effects in a game that was about staring at your minimap a lot, even more structures to manually bite down - they all seem like the great playability of the original just wasn't in the forefront of anyone's mind.

It's a shame, and I hate sounding like a nostalgic oldtimer, but a rekindling of the original with it's actual weaknesses ironed out a bit could have been much more enticing. What I see right now somehow manages to be both less deep and less accessible than the previous iteration - what with more buffs/debuffs/counterbuffs flying around, personal resource as well as team resource to worry about and tons more structures to maintain or chomp down but the actual conflict in the end being even more straightforward than before.

tl;dr: Lots of the old poo poo was miles better. Pres is largely pointless and so are a large swath of NS2 gimmicks.

No offense, but this isn't some sort of deliberate slight to the competitive community. Sorry that you're asshurt over some perceived injustice from NS1 or whatever but NS2 has been playing the competitive angle hard as they can, and they're planning a lot of convenience features post-release that were simply not priority for 1.0. Only reason we even have a decent spectator system for gamecasting is because someone modded it in.

Also I can specifically call bullshit on at least your point on air control, because someone on the forums awhile back did a video-recorded side by side test of NS1 vs NS2 and air control is actually MORE responsive in NS2. Watch a few casts of some competitive games, there is a huge difference between a skulk who can evade, a marine who can evade, and one who can't.

Sorry you don't like NS2, but it sounds like you'd mostly made up your mind before even trying it, so that's too bad.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Oct 31, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

mistermojo posted:

I'm pretty sure that when people talk about air control they mean bunnyhopping

Well, air control specifically with regards to changing momentum in midair is more responsive in NS2. With regards to bunnyhopping, gently caress it. That's been done over so much that it's practically a trope in these threads. The new system may need some tweaking but if anyone can't see that it's an improvement over a purely coincidental bug in the HL1 engine then I don't know what to say.

Vatek posted:

I have a similar setup except my i7 is much older and I maxed out every graphics option I could find and it runs perfectly with no slowdowns anywhere. I'm fairly certain my video drivers are out of date too since I haven't updated them since July or so.

He's saying he gets 70fps when staring at infestation, which by no stretch of the imagination should be negatively impacting actual gameplay experience. Yes, it's a slowdown, but it's not a serious performance complaint. 70fps is more than playable, just don't stare at FPS counters while you play. It's bad for the psyche.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Oct 31, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Demitri Omni posted:

My only issue against NS2 is Fades. gently caress Fades. It doesn't seem like there's a reliable way to take them out, so if any alien player knows how to play a Fade, marines are just straight up hosed. It doesn't even seem like Onos are as difficult to deal with as Fades. It just seems crazy.

Fades have no hard-counter, but can be quickly forced to retreat by equally-skilled shotgunners and the occasional flamethrower makes them significantly less mobile. Fades just happen to be one of the highest skill-capped gameplay elements, so yeah, a good Fade is absolutely and intentionally scary.

Lurking291230 posted:

I may be the odd one out here, but I have an i7 with an nvidia 460m, and I've been trying to play this on Windows 8, but it seems to die on me after 10-15 minutes when I'm trying to respawn. Strangely, I can successfully respawn 3-4 times before that, but it will eventually get to the point where it just crashes on me while I'm staring at my dude at the respawn point.

Any ideas, or could it just be windows 8?

I downloaded the most recent drivers from the NVidia website about 4 hours ago.

There is every possibility that it is just Windows 8. Judging by some tweets awhile back, UWE has not had any chance to do testing on Windows 8 yet. Definitely post a report on the official forums.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Oct 31, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Demitri Omni posted:

I think anything should be able to hit blinking Fades. The blink mechanic just seems off-kilter balance-wise right now.

Everything else can hit blinking fades. Don't stop shooting at them while they're blinking thinking that they're immune, that's a rookie mistake.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Guesticles posted:

I think if they could be hit by anything mid-blink they would need a buff to health/armor, as fades do need a way to bug out. It would be nice there was some way to differentiate a "retreating" and "attacking" blink, and have the retreating blink be immune.

Mainly, I say only flamers because they are a great fade counter, and I think making it so they could hit blinking fades would really solidify that. It would also let you hit an advancing fade, reducing their effective time, or when used against a retreating fade low on energy, maybe cause them to drop out of blink where teammates could finish them off.

I'm almost positive that blink does not provide immunity and they can be hit mid-blink.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Demitri Omni posted:

Okay, it just never gives me the hit confirm, so either it just doesn't or I'm just outright missing.

I don't know about hit confirms during blink, but try watching/playing a Fade sometime. It is very common to start blinking and come out on the other end with much less HP. But yeah, it's always hard to hit something moving that fast so it's possible you're just missing.

But if Fades seem to be blinking away from you in a straight line it's always a good idea to shoot after them.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

voltron lion force posted:

I wish your perspective rotated with your orientation while playing skulk, like in AvP. Obviously its less disorientating, but it doesn't feel as cool and it makes it hard to run along ceilings without falling off.

Someone could probably mod that in, but there's a good reason not to do it -- certain people will get sick. Like, real-life, fullscale vomiting sick. It's been tried, and it's not a good idea.

speng31b
May 8, 2010


Yeah, and that's with only a few tweets and a small handful of articles. Once more articles start to hit the press, and more major casters/players start to tweet about it and make videos, it's going to be great.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Cheston posted:

The loading times keep getting faster. Is this what that precaching thing is?

Yes.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Diogines posted:

I was a *HUGE* Natural Selection fan.

1. How is performance?
2. How is the net code?

I heard both were an utter train wreck in the Alpha, so bad, that I have not followed the game at all.

They were an utter trainwreck in alpha, and as one might expect, both are very good now. Performance is solid, but you will need a semi-modern system -- think a processor that starts with an "i" (or is at least equivalent) and a video card that was released in the last three years or so. Netcode is flawless as long as you connect to a server that is running the game at full performance. Luckily the server browser lets you filter by server performance, so you have noone but yourself to blame if you connect to a poo poo server.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

InterFaced posted:

Really enjoying this game so far.

I'm curious as to how much of a gameplay advantage is gained by turning off all the eye candy? For instance, if the lights go out they still go out for someone running on the lowest settings right?

I've found that the biggest limiting factor for frame rate, at least for ATI cards, seems to be the resolution. I can run just about everything at 1920x1080 on my HD7770 as long as I turn off anti-aliasing. NS2 runs at about 30fps at that resolution, dropping it down to 1600x900 just about doubles the framerate. No other eye candy settings seem to have as much effect as resolution. I never bothered trying to turn on anti-aliasing or ambient occlusion.

Yeah, lights go out regardless of settings.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

SERPUS posted:

I am having an issue wherein my server browser will not refresh after I attempt to join a full game. I have to completely reboot everything and wait 15-20 minutes until I can pull a list again.

This might be a longshot, but make sure your bandwidth settings for Steam are correct. If you way overestimate your bandwidth, sometimes Steam will send too much info at once which has a habit of overloading not-so-great routers for awhile. Lowering your bandwidth in Steam settings will cause it not to send server data quite so fiercely.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Splicer posted:

Couple of patches out of date. Now Hydras can live anywhere and dont need their gorge to keepgoing. If they're not on creep they won't grow/heal though, need a gorge to maintain them in that case. But they don't die.

Yeah, that happened around the same time that they became insanely easy to kill if I remember correctly.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Diogines posted:

The problem is not the cost, the problem is my motherboard does not have room for any more ram. I have a lovely motherboard.

What you're saying doesn't make any sense. Please post exactly what processor/GPU you have, and what the brand and model your motherboard is, and we can probably help to find you a cheap RAM upgrade. I don't think there's any such thing as a motherboard that supports a max 2 gigs of RAM and is compatible with a good CPU/GPU.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

wolfman101 posted:

Dear UW, please give me some feedback when I bite someone. I literally cannot tell if a bite is actually hitting anything because it always plays the same sound.

PS, my mic doesn't work in this game and I have no idea why.

Turn on damage numbers?

Jon Joe posted:

Is there any trick to living longer as an evolved Alien so my points were wasted in evolving?

Hit and run, don't over commit, use vertical distance to confuse/evade where appropriate (skulk/lerk/fade), and if you're damaged don't push the attack, go back to the hive and heal. Focus on making yourself hard to hit, making sure you don't wedge yourself into a corner or against an obstacle where you become an easy target. Remember that everything in this game other than an Onos/Exosuit will die in a matter of a few seconds under sustained fire, so everything you do needs to be oriented around making it very hard for someone to track you with their mouse.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Nov 1, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

wolfman101 posted:

See, the problem with damage numbers is that you can't see them half of the time because you are not going to be looking at the marine's chest while you bite him.

Just play a little more and/or watch some videos and you'll get a good sense for what is connecting. It just takes practice and patience.

Bloodmobile posted:

Onos are currently so fast to get it's ridiculous. All the alien comm needs to do is expand quickly at the start of the game, get carapace and leap, then just sit around and wait for the inevitable onos rush.

All things being equal, marines should be having an easier time maintaining extractors for the early game than aliens. What you are talking about only happens in disorganized pubs where marines aren't given good orders/don't know how to play. Give it awhile for the general playerbase to figure out which direction is up and I can guarantee you'll see that things are actually quite balanced.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Nov 1, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Bloodmobile posted:

Except all things aren't equal, an undeveloped skulk is more powerful than an undeveloped marine. So what makes marines more capable of maintaining extractors in early game?

Well that's not quite correct, marines are stronger in groups. Since time immemorial, Natural Selection balance proceeds thusly:

1v1, slight skulk advantage
2v2, even
3v3, slight marine advantage

In NS2 there is the added dimension that at high levels of play, marines are actually better in ALL of these encounters. Skulks' main strength is strong use of parasite and ambush tactics.

But yeah, you are correct that when talking about players of lowish skill running around by themselves, skulks seem to have a slight advantage. Of course, that is not what Natural Selection is about. Add a little bit of teamwork and practiced aim and it becomes pretty clear that skulks don't hold up.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Nov 1, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Captain Beans posted:

Hope they continue to focus on optimization. To get acceptable fps when a full shitfest is going down at a hive assault or marine spawn with 18 players in the space place with flamers an onos I have to run with all the graphical options off except for shadows @ 1080p. The game still looks great but I run BF3 at almost maximum with Phenom 2 x4 3.4, 8gigs ram, 560ti.

Other than not having all the wizbang graphical options I'm impressed by the game. I was seriously concerned about the netcode from all the alpha footage but everything seems smooth as silk from my perspective. Stick with servers above 90% performance and it looks great.

Optimization and bugfixes, UI improvements are their main focuses going forward. They aren't adding any major new features. What you see is what you get, it's polish from here on out.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Blunt Force Trauma posted:

The wall-climbing controls and just... the way it works, I guess, for aliens is absolutely awful. Is there any way to change the orientation of my view while climbing on walls/the ceiling or is it always going to be right-side-up? Can I somehow set a button that needs to be held or toggled in order to climb on walls? I looked through the options menu but didn't see anything about either of these issues.

No, sorry. What you see is what you get. View doesn't rotate because this causes many people to become violently ill. I guess you can pitch the idea for a mod on the official forums if you don't like the way things work, but to me what you are proposing sounds "absolutely awful" and the way it currently works is smooth/intuitive. I doubt I'm alone in that sentiment -- needing to press a key to climb on wells and rotating the view would totally destroy skulks.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Blunt Force Trauma posted:

There are a lot of really unbearable things about the way it currently works. If you're running across the roof and you orient your view one degree too far downward, you fall off the roof. If you're running on a wall and you turn one degree too far away from the wall, you fall off. This severely limits your effective FoV as any kind of wall-bound alien which makes the team completely unplayable for me. I do not want to fall off of a roof or wall unless I press a button to make me fall off the roof or wall. It's impossible to judge whether or not you are hidden behind something on the roof because I have no way of knowing how much of my body sticks out below me. The changes that I am asking for are the way that it worked in NS1 as far as I can remember (I only played when the mod was fairly new, so maybe they changed later on).

On top of that, I'm experiencing a problem on every single server that I join where everything runs fine for two or three minutes, then there's some kind of connection error (red network cable icon appears on the left side of the HUD), all players freeze and things stop happening, but I can still run around and fire or attack things and their health actually depletes client-side. This never rights itself and I have to connect to a different server. It's not a problem with my connection and these are servers with 95%+ performance and <50ms ping :(

I don't know what to say about the wallrunning stuff, I have never heard anything like that sort of complaint about the system before. I've never had trouble sticking to walls or ceilings, granted you're not supposed to be crossing entire levels running entirely on walls. You jump up and around when you need to for positioning/evasion/ambush and then get down again, I would imagine it might be frustrating if you're playing as though you have to cling to a wall or ceiling 90% of the time. Anyhow, NS1 worked like NS2 does now, so you may be misremembering?

The connection issue seems to be a known problem and they're working on it.

TychoCelchuuu posted:

That's not really right. Feign death and hypermutation are coming back at some point, they're going to add a railgun to the exosuit, babblers are planned for the Crag, and presumably there is other stuff in the works too.

Right, that's true, I mostly just meant that they're not adding any crazy new features that weren't already planned.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Nov 1, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Downward Spiral posted:

How do those two things follow? I'm making things up but the only reason you have spectating in an unexciting form is because it was someone else's priority?

(And is it so hard to understand that one can at the same try to get a competitive community and ignore the game they came for? Yes, every FPS developer wants his game to be competitively respected, just like I want a fuckable chocolate cake. That doesn't mean it happens unless you know how to bake a vagina. Okay this analogy wasn't the best.)

They follow because the leap of logic required to make them into some sort of conspiracy is literally insane bullshit. It was meant to demonstrate that they have had JUST enough time and resources to develop the game and release it, therefore any perceived lack of features is in fact a part of resource budgeting towards presenting a FINISHED GAME and not a personal insult directed at you or your competitive brethren. In fact, there are already a large number of competitive teams who have embraced NS2 and are having tournaments with major sponsors, like, even as we speak -- so we're really only talking about the subset of competitives who are still pissed off about some perceived slight from someone who literally spent 18 months unemployed with no income making a game on his own just for you a decade ago. My loving god I try not to be "hostile," but "old-school NS1 competitives" are the most insufferable fucks who have done nothing but come into this thread and turn it to poo poo with their inscrutable whining about vague offenses suffered a decade ago and misremembered nostalgia, so I don't have a whole lot of patience left for it.

quote:

People have already pointed out that we're not talking about the same thing. Air acceleration was a big part of things being fun. Players back then would literally spend their idle time pre-game, post-game, ready-room or on an empty server at 2 in the morning just cruising around maps because it was just that loving neat. It had a few practical advantages but didn't exactly make you great by default - it was just much more pleasurable than holding +forward or mashing jump from walls will ever be.

(Also walljumping existed in NS3+ and was totally fine and still the best way to waste competent folks bullets because even max groundspeed celerity skulks are easy targets - but it's also 100.00% irrelevant to the topic)

Also, no need for any of the hostile stuff. If I knew I was going to dislike it, I wouldn't have tried it. And I still don't dislike it as much as it just bores me. If for some reason G4B2S: The Game appeals to you, that's great. For me it's not an improvement on any of the parts of NS that I enjoyed and isn't a particularly exciting game on it's own merits either so I won't be playing it. You don't have to pretend that liking other things is insufferable elitism and try to rally the thread to hyuk-hyuk about it.

I'm not really trying to rally anyone, and believe me, I'm perfectly fine with you taking your gameplay time elsewhere. One of the best parts of NS2 has always been a friendly community willing to help out newbies that actively encourages cooperation and teamplay, and judging by your attitude I have some doubts that you would be much help on that front.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Nov 1, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Downward Spiral posted:

Except lots of the people that poured quite a lot of time into one of the biggest resources NS1 had aren't happy about it either? NS wasn't a messianic solo-effort by Charlie and having a frank discussion about the direction of the game can easily be treated as something besides heresy.

Okay, I'll bite. I'd be genuinely interested to know who these "lots of people" are. Are they playtesters for NS2? How much time have they spent playing NS2? Have they played lately, or did they play in earlier stages of alpha/beta? Thanks in advance, hoping for response not in the form of a nebulous collective of allies.

Gold source movement. Sure, I agree that it added a lot to NS1 -- you aren't going to find a lot of people who seriously played the original and disagree with the premise that it was fun for a lot of people and added a dimension of skill. What you may not realize, or perhaps failed to acknowledge, is that Charlie and the other UW devs have stated not once but multiple times that they have continuing plans to add and improve upon skill-based movement mechanics within NS2. At no point have they refuted this, however the current iteration of walljumping is utterly first-pass, because as I have stated multiple times, it is not feature priority for 1.0 due flatly to lack of infinite time and resources.

So unless you're still stuck on the idea that feature priority for 1.0 should entirely hinge on the opinion of you and your ill-defined allies, or perhaps you are of the opinion that they should have spent development time in an attempt to entirely replicate gold source movement in their new engine, then I'm not sure what your complaint is.

If this was all a little too much, here's the summary:
The developers have stated multiple times, unequivocally, that they are interested in furthering the goals of competitive players. Many of these features are simply not ready in time for 1.0. However, I present the following as evidence of my case: hundreds of cast videos of competitive NS2 games already exist, highly-skilled teams that have sunk hundreds upon hundreds of hours into this game in beta alone are competing in tournaments with big-name sponsors (Logitech), and the devs have repeatedly and specifically stated plans to improve upon competitive support.

On the other hand, we have your argument: Charlie once upon a time dealt some perceived injustice to competitive community, therefore, despite multiple and specific pieces of evidence to the contrary he just doesn't care about you. Also, he refused to replicate gold source movement frame for frame into his new engine. Does that seem about right? Are you starting to understand why I have a hard time taking you seriously?

speng31b
May 8, 2010

whiskas posted:

Ironsights and cones of fire would be awful in this game. It's nice having a gun that shoots where you aim and doesn't take up half your screen.

Yeah, I was explaining to some newbie on a stream last night how NS2 guns weren't "overpowered" due to their accuracy. The game is all about twitch, if you can put your bead on an enemy very quickly and keep it on target, you will do very well. NS2 combat may take the form of a first person shooter, but it's nothing like an FPS that most gamers would recognize.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Phoix posted:

This game is really fun but the team stacking is just out of control. Every match I've played has been a total steamroll because people just sit in the ready room waiting to switch to whichever team got an early advantage.

This can definitely be frustrating, but it will even out over time as more people become confident in their skill at the game. With any giant influx of new players, this sort of thing is a risk.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Obiter dictum posted:

The large number you speak of is actually less than 20 teams worldwide currently, many of which are not very active. Hopefully that will grow in time, but claiming that the competitive community is anything but tiny, is at best hilariously misinformed and at worst ill-intentioned lies.

Hey, gently caress off. 20 teams worldwide for a game 2 days out of beta is pretty good by any sane metric and I defy you to make the opposite case.

Obiter dictum posted:

Holy poo poo rant

I don't have any problem with all competitive players, or even NS1 competitive players specifically, only the subset of those whose sense of entitlement has them furious at the fact that UW hasn't copied gold source movement frame for frame into NS2. The current movement system may leave a lot to be desired but it's just not super high priority and you seem physically incapable of dealing of with that fact. I get that you've spent lots of time and effort helping out, and I'm sure you must be very emotionally invested in the game, but you need to back the gently caress off and get some perspective. A lot of people have put effort into this game and the original, but the only ones I see financially and possibly even legally indebting themselves to this venture (if the game had failed to launch they could be in a serious legal shitstorm with preorders) is UW.

If you get to the point where having your opinion on bunnyhopping be God's Own Law to the dev team is so important that you can no longer step back and enjoy the game for what it is, then you are toxic to the community and you need to move on. Because ultimately what makes this game so great is the community -- if you feel that you can no longer take part in that without your years of dedication warping into some twisted sense of entitlement, then you need to move on. We would all appreciate it.

This isn't even about bunnyhopping, it's about the absolutely insane fact that this one issue has become some sort of collective thesis on bitterness and entitlement from oldschool NS1 players who are incapable of taking no for an answer.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Nov 1, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Obiter dictum posted:

I shall re-iterate that I enjoy playing NS2, that I think it is a fun game worth playing, and that I think UWE try to do their best for the community as a whole, including the competitive community. That does, however, not mean that I can't commentate on things I think they could've done better, and should do better, nor does it mean that I can't rage at people posting lies and misinformation (to which a large portion of the blame for many of UWE's poor decisions can be attributed).

Fine, that's fair, I just don't understand why this still even needs to be discussed. UW has made it clear, not just once but repeatedly, that bunnyhopping or perfecting any sort of bunnyhopping analog are not high-priority two days out of the beta gate. I don't feel some particular need to attribute that to malice towards the competitive community, and it confuses me when people seem to take the noninclusion as a personal affront, it just seems that we are at an impasse here.

If the competitive community as a whole deems bunnyhopping to be such an excellent and important mechanic that serious play cannot take place without it, why not convince someone who can program of the same thing and mod it in? There is absolutely nothing stopping you. Certainly not UW, by their own admission they would encourage it. Hell I'm pretty good at Lua myself and I could probably whip something up if I were so motivated.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Nov 1, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

I just find it hard to believe that if there were such a universal consensus that bunnyhopping was the right way to go, especially among competitive players, that it wouldn't be included. Check out a great deal of the current features that have been included in release -- they started as mods, and when the devs saw how well they worked, they just rolled them right in.

Get the mod made, prove that it's better than what exists, and the feature will follow. If someone were to actually create a bunnyhopping mod that made the game more fun without screwing up the skill floor for new players, then I just have a hard time believing that things wouldn't sort themselves out naturally. I just don't think the devs are snubbing the feature out of malice, they seem very receptive to rolling in positive changes. They just don't have the time or interest to pursue this themselves, and clearly aren't convinced by the multiple eloquent forum posts on the subject that it would be an improvement. So convince them.

Either way, this thread needs to be done with bunnyhopping discussion forever. I'm sorry for my part in this derail.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Nov 1, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Obiter dictum posted:

I'm not exaggerating when I say that bunnyhopping is, and has been, the most contentious issue within the NS community ever since the first game was released.

I see that. And maybe you're right, but it looks like you lost this one. I have no other desire than to see the discussion die, because I'm just so loving tired of it. I doubt I'm the only one. The way it tends to come across to those of us who don't come into the argument with strong opinions is "entitled dicks argue til blue in the face, but still get no candy!" which probably accounts for a large part of what you see as people who "don't understand" galvanizing against you on the subject. The knee-jerk response happens to be "shut the gently caress up," especially since newbies who are fresh-faced and full of optimism can get turned off super quickly when all they see are complaints about some feature from an old game that they don't know or understand and will never be affected by. It's demoralizing.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Nov 1, 2012

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Let's all do everyone else in this thread a favor and shut the gently caress up about bunnyhopping for good. I apologize for my part in this. Can someone actually edit the op to make it a thread rule? Nothing good ever comes of it.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

With regards to hydras, it is very good advice to position them in high or partially-hidden locations -- ceilings and railings are perfect. They used to be much more robust structures that would die when not on infestation and disappear after the Gorge died, but now they can be built and survive off infestation and stay after Gorge death, but the tradeoff is they are extremely easy to kill.

In other news, the front page of http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/ has a pretty interesting postmortem of the launch. Good read. Interesting fact: at launch there were 7500 player slots, and if you were keeping track of Steam statistics at that time, you will remember that player counts were in the mid-6000s both on the 30th and the 31st. So for at least some period of time every server in the game was filled almost to capacity. That is pretty drat cool.

speng31b fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Nov 1, 2012

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speng31b
May 8, 2010

Sulla-Marius 88 posted:

I'd love some random stats and figures if anybody finds any. Sales rates, dollar values, play rates, etc. Not for anything, I just like vicariously basking in success.

NS2 was the top seller on Steam the 30th and 31st, just dropped that position this morning. It's been selling between 400-500 copies an hour at $24.99 for the past two days. It's been in the top 15 played games on Steam for the past few days.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ <-- Click here for Steam "top played" daily stats to see for yourself.

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