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Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



Baron Snow posted:

I just got a rather surprising amount of games.

A few weeks ago I was picking out some spare furniture for the new house from a friend of the family and I spied a PlayStation and some games in their basement. I was told that I could keep it, but shouldn't take it until I had moved. Yesterday he brought the last of the furniture over and a box that had the PlayStation. "Oh, I found some Gameboys and brought them too," he told me. I figured there was no way he meant plural Gameboys, he just meant the games or something.
Today I opened the box and my mind was blown to find all of this inside.



There are also some windows shareware games, a PS2 DVD remote (with no dongle) and of course all the cords for the PlayStation. I'm super happy to get the Gameboy color and GBAs for the same reason I'd wanted the PlayStation, which is that I tend to give away old consoles when the newer versions are backwards compatible. I guess I should do the screen upgrade on at least one of the GBAs?

I think the real prize there is Bubsy 3D.

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Karasu Tengu
Feb 16, 2011

Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter
Oh, you found the half-size Bubsy 3D that doesn't have the fake magazine award on it.

FireMrshlBill
Aug 13, 2006

LEMME SHOW YOU SOMETHING!!!

Baron Snow posted:

I just got a rather surprising amount of games.

A few weeks ago I was picking out some spare furniture for the new house from a friend of the family and I spied a PlayStation and some games in their basement. I was told that I could keep it, but shouldn't take it until I had moved. Yesterday he brought the last of the furniture over and a box that had the PlayStation. "Oh, I found some Gameboys and brought them too," he told me. I figured there was no way he meant plural Gameboys, he just meant the games or something.
Today I opened the box and my mind was blown to find all of this inside.



There are also some windows shareware games, a PS2 DVD remote (with no dongle) and of course all the cords for the PlayStation. I'm super happy to get the Gameboy color and GBAs for the same reason I'd wanted the PlayStation, which is that I tend to give away old consoles when the newer versions are backwards compatible. I guess I should do the screen upgrade on at least one of the GBAs?

Freebies are great, but always make me feel guilty taking if they are worth some money.

Front light mod + LOCA that atomic purple GBC and if you can get a 101 screen, mod that glacier GBA and you have my set up (the light shining through the translucent casing looks great, so I'd recommend that one over the grape).

edit: whats the GBC game next to the carry case?

FireMrshlBill fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jul 25, 2016

Ofecks
May 4, 2009

A portly feline wizard waddles forth, muttering something about conjured food.

Baron Snow posted:

a PS2 DVD remote (with no dongle)

The sensor is on the console itself, no dongle needed.

Medullah
Aug 14, 2003

FEAR MY SHARK ROCKET IT REALLY SUCKS AND BLOWS

Ofecks posted:

The sensor is on the console itself, no dongle needed.

For the PS2? The remote I had back in the day had a dongle for it.

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

Medullah posted:

For the PS2? The remote I had back in the day had a dongle for it.

On the first few revisions you need the dongle. V6 and up, I think, have a little IR sensor near the power button.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
You need an IR dongle for the earlier PS2 models - the ones before the 500xx versions.

Later models, SCPH-500xx and later for normal design and the slim models SCPH-700xx to SCPH-900xx have the IR port built in


On top of all that the very earliest PS2 models lacked really working DVD player software, you also needed a special memory card that was written from a CD you could buy, the Japan-only .SCPH-10000, SCPH-15000. These models, in combination with the SCPH-18000 also in Japan, lacked the expansion bay every other normal PS2 model had, instead they had a PCMCIA slot.

So, check your PS2's label for the model to figure out if you need the IR thing for the controller port or not!

fishmech fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jul 25, 2016

SeductiveReasoning
Nov 2, 2005

382 BC - 301 BC

d0s posted:

You should really be looking for something with component because it's not like it's going to cost you any more, consumer CRTs are dirt cheap or free no matter what. I'm willing to bet most of the consoles you have output RGB and you just need the SCART cable for them. It may be hard to find a small CRT with either component or s-video though, as those are usually in larger TVs. I do have a smaller Toshiba with both but it's not with me now so I can't get the model number.

I'm starting from scratch here, not owning any consoles or games anymore, so nothing outputs RGB for me :v:. That's a good point about TV size though, I hadn't considered that the smaller ones wouldn't have s-video. I think I'll just bite the bullet and mod a mini SNES (the first console/library I want to target) and look for a TV with RGB or Component hookups.

Kthulhu5000 posted:

If they're going to pay for a CRT monitor (and also pay for all the shipping that potentially entails), they might as well get a 14" PVM (like Sony's PVM 14M2U series), and get composite, S-Video, and potentially component and outright RGB in the bargain.

Oh, this looks like a great option. Thanks for pointing it out. Gonna set my sights on picking up one of these.

Kthulhu5000
Jul 25, 2006

by R. Guyovich

Monopthalmus posted:

Oh, this looks like a great option. Thanks for pointing it out. Gonna set my sights on picking up one of these.

No problem! If you're looking to go the CRT route, want something compact with plenty of inputs, and are willing to pay money (especially if your local Craigslist or thrift stores are dry for input-loaded compact CRTs), then a PVM is a good option. JVC and Panasonic also made standard video monitors back in the day, and they made a fair amount that topped out at composite and S-Video. Look on Ebay for "JVC monitor" and "Panasonic monitor", but be sure you check the back for the inputs. If you have questions about a display, feel free to post in here to make sure you're getting a good model.

As a heads up, though, PVMs and other dedicated video monitors don't have RF inputs; so if you're looking at hooking up old stuff like unmodded Atari 2600s, Famicoms, and the like, you'll have to look at converting that signal to something else or using a different display. That's the only "caveat" to a PVM, in my book, but it's never been a deal-breaker for me. If nothing else, you could probably run RF stuff through a VCR that does composite output and hook things up that way...

LODGE NORTH
Jul 30, 2007

Does anyone here have experience with reproduction carts? I'm trying to score a copy of BS Zelda and BS Zelda: Ancient Stone Tablets without buying something that would play incredibly crappy.

Baron Snow
Feb 8, 2007


Kramdar posted:

Yeah, and sell me the GBA that you don't want! I'm having the worst luck finding a decent deal on a decent shape one.

Uh, shoot me a PM?

Ofecks posted:

The sensor is on the console itself, no dongle needed.

My PS2 is from launch day. :unsmith:

FireMrshlBill posted:

Front light mod + LOCA that atomic purple GBC and if you can get a 101 screen, mod that glacier GBA and you have my set up (the light shining through the translucent casing looks great, so I'd recommend that one over the grape).

edit: whats the GBC game next to the carry case?

I will look into this mod advice!
Did you mean the tall one? It's a Game Shark Pro. I suspect that if any the Pokemon batteries still work, there will be many Mews.

Random Stranger posted:

I think the real prize there is Bubsy 3D.

I agree! I look forward to finding the secrets that are totally secrets and not horrible bugs.

Chainclaw
Feb 14, 2009

LODGE NORTH posted:

Does anyone here have experience with reproduction carts? I'm trying to score a copy of BS Zelda and BS Zelda: Ancient Stone Tablets without buying something that would play incredibly crappy.

I have a few reproduction carts from a few different vendors. The ones I've liked the most are from here: http://www.lostclassicvgs.com/
The difference between this and other ones is sticker quality. When I've picked up from a local vendor, the sticker wasn't as well done.

LODGE NORTH
Jul 30, 2007

Chainclaw posted:

I have a few reproduction carts from a few different vendors. The ones I've liked the most are from here: http://www.lostclassicvgs.com/
The difference between this and other ones is sticker quality. When I've picked up from a local vendor, the sticker wasn't as well done.

Shot these guys an email earlier today to see if it would be possible to specifically make those two games. If not, I might be bound to buying some crappy one since I simply cannot find decent ones.

TheRedEye
Sep 10, 2003

WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU!

d0s posted:

lots of master system stuff has always seemed odd to me, like it has clearly better graphical power than an NES but the games seem... clunkier or something and this is a pretty good articulation of what's going on with it. lots of stuff feels cramped or zoomed in or something. is the NES actually higher resolution?

Late to respond to this but my impressions are similar to a lot of others in the thread: it's a very difficult tome to sit down and actually read because nothing in it was edited at all, it's a bunch of raw transcripts. I haven't read very much of it because of that, but I'm glad I have it as a reference book, if that makes sense.

PaletteSwappedNinja posted:

There's a very slight resolution difference but that's not really the issue.

The SMS was relatively fast at drawing background tiles, so a lot of SMS "sprites" are actually drawn using bg tiles in order to get around max sprite or sprite-per-line (flicker) issues, but the tradeoff is they can only be moved on an 8x8 grid, so games that rely heavily on this technique have very noticeable "blocky" character movement. The other downside to this technique is that the fastest/most efficient application (most noticeably seen in Space Harrier) puts big boxes around all the BG tiles which can be mitigated in a few different ways - devs could draw an image with bg tiles in the center and sprites on the edges (Phantasy Star enemies), they could do what Golden Axe does and use clever-but-slow programming to blend bg tiles so you don't see the boxes, or they could just use the trick on a flat-colour background that's the same colour as the boxes.

The other obvious difference is that a lot of SMS games simply don't run at anything near 60FPS.

I always thought that characters in SMS games felt like cardboard cutouts of video game characters moving around stiffly, and this explains why!

FireMrshlBill
Aug 13, 2006

LEMME SHOW YOU SOMETHING!!!

Baron Snow posted:

I will look into this mod advice!
Did you mean the tall one? It's a Game Shark Pro. I suspect that if any the Pokemon batteries still work, there will be many Mews.

Cool, thanks! That was what I was asking about.

For the GBC front light mod, check out Hand-Held Legend. For the LOCA I just used this, but I ended up just letting it cure in the sun instead of using the flashlight. So you could save $5 by not getting that if you can lay it out in direct sunlight.

For the 101 mod, finding a broken GBA SP-101 with a good screen is a bit of a chore.

Check out YouTuber "This Does Not Compute" for good install and comparison videos for front light mods, screen swaps and even the DMG + bivert mod. I think Hand-Held Legend even just started linking to his videos for installation instructions.

Good luck!

FireMrshlBill fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jul 25, 2016

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747
Yo if I pick up a frontlight and glass screen for a GBA would any of you nerds be willing to do the actual mod for me? I'd obviously compensate you for the time and poo poo

flyboi
Oct 13, 2005

agg stop posting
College Slice

fishmech posted:

You need an IR dongle for the earlier PS2 models - the ones before the 500xx versions.

Later models, SCPH-500xx and later for normal design and the slim models SCPH-700xx to SCPH-900xx have the IR port built in


On top of all that the very earliest PS2 models lacked really working DVD player software, you also needed a special memory card that was written from a CD you could buy, the Japan-only .SCPH-10000, SCPH-15000. These models, in combination with the SCPH-18000 also in Japan, lacked the expansion bay every other normal PS2 model had, instead they had a PCMCIA slot.

So, check your PS2's label for the model to figure out if you need the IR thing for the controller port or not!

Fun fact there were arcade systems that utilized PS2s and used the IR to control the system. Konami's Python hardware did this with some PNM, IIDX and DDR releases.

Literally a gigantic arcade board and then a ps2 console which you can interchange regions all they needed were dongles and the HD

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

flyboi posted:

Fun fact there were arcade systems that utilized PS2s and used the IR to control the system. Konami's Python hardware did this with some PNM, IIDX and DDR releases.

Literally a gigantic arcade board and then a ps2 console which you can interchange regions all they needed were dongles and the HD

Huh, I wonder why the IR instead of the USB port. Seems like it would have been easier to use and more reliable.

flyboi
Oct 13, 2005

agg stop posting
College Slice

fishmech posted:

Huh, I wonder why the IR instead of the USB port. Seems like it would have been easier to use and more reliable.

Probably didn't have reset control via usb

Ometeotl
Feb 13, 2012



It's MISSEL! Or SISSLE!
I confused myself...



Elliotw2 posted:

Oh, you found the half-size Bubsy 3D that doesn't have the fake magazine award on it.

That's actually a myth that it was fake, it just was an unpopular magazine that few had heard of. I mean, I understand why that myth would spread as the alternative is a real person gave Bubsy 3D a 93%.

TheSpamalope
Dec 30, 2008

by sebmojo
Lipstick Apathy
I recently picked up Road Rash 2 for the Genesis. It's awesome. The somewhat janky driving and fighting, plus the sound effects (Such as the rider going "YEAH!" when stealing a weapon) had me laughing quite a bit the first few races.

However, what is up with the sound? It speeds up randomly before a race starts, and it slows way down when selecting a track. It must be poorly programmed or something.

That said, the music has that Genesis twang and it pretty cheesy.

Road Rash 2 is pretty fun, I'm going to try to find 1 and 3 after this.

Ghosts n Gopniks
Nov 2, 2004

Imagine how much more sad and lonely we would be if not for the hard work of lowtax. Here's $12.95 to his aid.

Kthulhu5000 posted:

No problem! If you're looking to go the CRT route, want something compact with plenty of inputs, and are willing to pay money (especially if your local Craigslist or thrift stores are dry for input-loaded compact CRTs), then a PVM is a good option. JVC and Panasonic also made standard video monitors back in the day, and they made a fair amount that topped out at composite and S-Video. Look on Ebay for "JVC monitor" and "Panasonic monitor", but be sure you check the back for the inputs. If you have questions about a display, feel free to post in here to make sure you're getting a good model.

As a heads up, though, PVMs and other dedicated video monitors don't have RF inputs; so if you're looking at hooking up old stuff like unmodded Atari 2600s, Famicoms, and the like, you'll have to look at converting that signal to something else or using a different display. That's the only "caveat" to a PVM, in my book, but it's never been a deal-breaker for me. If nothing else, you could probably run RF stuff through a VCR that does composite output and hook things up that way...

In the PVM world JVC and Panasonic were often the same units, with different names and model numbers, super weird. (yellow VS white OSD text for a difference apparently)

For those of us living in countries where having a TV-tuning capable device means having to pay a TV license, the RF-lessness of PVM is the best thing since flashcarts. In Sweden I'd be paying approximately 69 cents per day otherwise, or risking legal trouble and then having to pay it all retroactively.

d0s
Jun 28, 2004

Kthulhu5000 posted:

This is a bad idea. The 1702 is old as hell, limited in its capabilities, and outclassed by cheap displays encapsulating all the years of display technology that came after it was released.

If they're going to pay for a CRT monitor (and also pay for all the shipping that potentially entails), they might as well get a 14" PVM (like Sony's PVM 14M2U series), and get composite, S-Video, and potentially component and outright RGB in the bargain.

They're also hard to find and expensive thanks to commodore collectors

e: why would you suggest a 1702 over some form of 1084 even :psyduck:

d0s fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Jul 25, 2016

UnhandledException
Jun 27, 2016

Not enough memories.

d0s posted:

They're also hard to find and expensive thanks to commodore collectors

e: why would you suggest a 1702 over some form of 1084 even :psyduck:

The 14" PVM is a great suggestion, so I don't disagree. But in defense of 1702, he said he wanted something that didn't take up a lot of space with at least S-Video. It's very portable, and even NES looks great just with composite. They're much more common locally than PVMs, and a lot of people still use them at retro game events.

I do have a 1084, and tried to wire up Sega Genesis to its RGB port with no luck. Any suggestions?

d0s
Jun 28, 2004

UnhandledException posted:

I do have a 1084, and tried to wire up Sega Genesis to its RGB port with no luck. Any suggestions?

Pretty sure you can find some euro sellers who've made SCART->1084 adapters, get a genesis SCART cable and you should be all set

Polly Toodle
Apr 21, 2010

CHARIZARD used SMOKESCREEN
It doesn't affect GEORDI THE BLASTOISE!
PSIO is in stock if anyone here is fast enough to get it:

http://ps-io.com/store/psio-cartridge/?product_alert_sid=7d6bc8dd5d90e4109ba28384083ca617b4ec87ad&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email

I ordered mine and when I started checking out there were 42 in stock, now there are 9...

Agrias120
Jun 27, 2002

I will burn my dread.

Miles McCloud posted:

PSIO is in stock if anyone here is fast enough to get it:

http://ps-io.com/store/psio-cartridge/?product_alert_sid=7d6bc8dd5d90e4109ba28384083ca617b4ec87ad&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email

I ordered mine and when I started checking out there were 42 in stock, now there are 9...

Fuckkkk I didn't know they were coming in stock today. Should have skipped lunch. :argh:

xamphear
Apr 9, 2002

SILK FOR CALDÉ!
My order from the March batch hasn't even shipped yet. :(

Kuros
Sep 13, 2010

Oh look, the consequences of my prior actions are finally catching up to me.
Pick ups from yesterday:

SNES/N64/GCN AV Cable - 2 for $10. I'm happy with getting Nintendo AV cables for $5 or less each.

Def Jam Fight for NY (PS2) - $7. Complete and in good condition as well.

15" (I think) Vizio LCD TV - $12. What a great deal for me. I need a small TV for testing as I attempt to sell off my games. Now I don't have a heavy 19" crt to deal with. Sure, I can't test Duck Hunt and the like, but the convenience factor outweighs the need to test like 3-4 specific games. There's a small line down the center, but I don't care about that.

Kuros fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jul 25, 2016

Ofecks
May 4, 2009

A portly feline wizard waddles forth, muttering something about conjured food.

d0s posted:

e: why would you suggest a 1702 over some form of 1084 even :psyduck:

Maybe the 1702 has a better build quality? I had two 1084s around 13 years ago for my RGBness. They were full of problems then and seemed cheaply-made, so I can imagine how hard it would be to find a good one nowadays. At that time, they were the most popular and cost-effective way of getting RGB in the NA region. PVMs and XRGB were pretty pricey, and I don't think those SCART -> Component converters or switchboxes had come along yet. As far as the console cables go, there was a guy from Hawaii on the shmups forum who custom-made them. He offered a reduced-cost D-sub breakaway system so you only had one master cable and dongle connectors to the consoles, that's what I had.

Pretty sure I've posted all this before but :shrug:

Caitlin
Aug 18, 2006

When I die, if there is a heaven, I will spend eternity rolling around with a pile of kittens.
If you wanna hear me and Jeremy Parish ramble on about Famicom carts NOW YOU CAN (recorded at Midwest Gaming Classic in April)

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/taste-the-8-bit-rainbow-with-this-weeks-retronauts-episode

Chilled Milk
Jun 22, 2003

No one here is alone,
satellites in every home
People who've done the whole Everdrive pre-order before: does he send out an email when its shipped? He hasn't tweeted any updates and there's nothing on his forums yet either. I was late in deciding to preorder so I'm sure it'll be awhile yet, I'd just like a rough estimate of when it'll show up.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Ofecks posted:

Maybe the 1702 has a better build quality? I had two 1084s around 13 years ago for my RGBness. They were full of problems then and seemed cheaply-made, so I can imagine how hard it would be to find a good one nowadays. At that time, they were the most popular and cost-effective way of getting RGB in the NA region. PVMs and XRGB were pretty pricey, and I don't think those SCART -> Component converters or switchboxes had come along yet. As far as the console cables go, there was a guy from Hawaii on the shmups forum who custom-made them. He offered a reduced-cost D-sub breakaway system so you only had one master cable and dongle connectors to the consoles, that's what I had.

Pretty sure I've posted all this before but :shrug:

I don't know if the 1702 had better build quality, but they certainly produced a lot more of them than they did with the 1084, so you're going to have more 1702s around and still working no matter what.

Smoking Crow
Feb 14, 2012

*laughs at u*

Caitlin posted:

If you wanna hear me and Jeremy Parish ramble on about Famicom carts NOW YOU CAN (recorded at Midwest Gaming Classic in April)

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/taste-the-8-bit-rainbow-with-this-weeks-retronauts-episode

did you tell him to bring Shane and Ray back

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747
Other than the NES Classic or whatever that's coming out this year, are there any wii plug in controllers that are actually shaped like retro controllers

The classic controller makes my hands angry

Karasu Tengu
Feb 16, 2011

Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter
The classic controller is shaped like an SNES controller.


Raphnet also makes a couple of things to plug in that let you use various controllers through a Wiimote.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005

Fun Shoe

Caitlin posted:

If you wanna hear me and Jeremy Parish ramble on about Famicom carts NOW YOU CAN (recorded at Midwest Gaming Classic in April)

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/taste-the-8-bit-rainbow-with-this-weeks-retronauts-episode

I listened to this on the way to work and enjoyed it. Particularly the rambling.

Wayne Knight
May 11, 2006

Literally The Worst posted:

Other than the NES Classic or whatever that's coming out this year, are there any wii plug in controllers that are actually shaped like retro controllers

The classic controller makes my hands angry

I have this:
https://www.amazon.com/Club-Nintendo-Super-Famicom-Classic-Controller/dp/B004TL1K0A

Dr. Spitesworth
Dec 31, 2007
Yoink.

Smoking Crow posted:

did you tell him to bring Shane and Ray back

Thanks for the helpful feedback.

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Kthulhu5000
Jul 25, 2006

by R. Guyovich

MrLonghair posted:

In the PVM world JVC and Panasonic were often the same units, with different names and model numbers, super weird. (yellow VS white OSD text for a difference apparently)

For those of us living in countries where having a TV-tuning capable device means having to pay a TV license, the RF-lessness of PVM is the best thing since flashcarts. In Sweden I'd be paying approximately 69 cents per day otherwise, or risking legal trouble and then having to pay it all retroactively.

Out of curiosity, is that license charged per device, or is it a flat fee that allows you to have a whole bunch of TVs? It would seem way too legalistic to charge for every device (since, in the end, it doesn't cost any more to broadcast to multiple receivers beyond the initial cost of broadcasting the first signal), but as an American where over-the-air TV is free (but commercial-ridden; though cable is the same, too), I've never really thought about the mechanics of TV licensing.

UnhandledException posted:

The 14" PVM is a great suggestion, so I don't disagree. But in defense of 1702, he said he wanted something that didn't take up a lot of space with at least S-Video. It's very portable, and even NES looks great just with composite. They're much more common locally than PVMs, and a lot of people still use them at retro game events.

I do have a 1084, and tried to wire up Sega Genesis to its RGB port with no luck. Any suggestions?

It kind of depends on where you live, because in my neck of the woods, we're dry for PVMs and a lot of retro stuff (at least, if the local Craigslist is any indication). So most stuff has to be brought in from other states through Ebay buying, meaning that the small minority who know and care about this don't go out of their way for old Commodore monitors unless they absolutely need them. And also, it is possible to get small displays (like many of the JVC and Panasonic brands, as I mentioned) that don't do RGB, but do composite and S-Video. Some of Sony's lesser video monitors also top out at S-Video, too. So the 1702 and 1084 (while once preeminent in their day) are really just a stylistic choice at this point, two options among many.

The 1702 isn't a bad suggestion per se, because it could probably be made to work welll enough. But going for a PVM or some other newer video monitor that can do composite (with a simple, "off the shelf" adapter) and S-Video (usually plugged in directly) and maybe RGB just strikes me as a better option, if one absolutely must have a giant box of steel, glass, electronics, and god knows what else, in order to best display their blippies and zaps in scanlined glory.

Ofecks posted:

Maybe the 1702 has a better build quality? I had two 1084s around 13 years ago for my RGBness. They were full of problems then and seemed cheaply-made, so I can imagine how hard it would be to find a good one nowadays. At that time, they were the most popular and cost-effective way of getting RGB in the NA region. PVMs and XRGB were pretty pricey, and I don't think those SCART -> Component converters or switchboxes had come along yet. As far as the console cables go, there was a guy from Hawaii on the shmups forum who custom-made them. He offered a reduced-cost D-sub breakaway system so you only had one master cable and dongle connectors to the consoles, that's what I had.

Pretty sure I've posted all this before but :shrug:

The thing about the 1702 and 1084 monitors is that, from a North American standpoint, they're yesterday's "optimal video solution". Certainly, they were probably dominant through the 1980s and 1990s, because they were composite/S-Video/RGB-capable (in the case of the 1084) monitors priced towards consumer price points, and also dual-purpose since a lot of them were bought for C64 and Amigas and the like. If you had one of those computers, odds were good you had a 1702 or 1084 monitor also.

But certainly in the last ten years, as hospitals, TV stations, and video production companies started to offload their old PVMs (since those are mostly only good for SD video, while HD video on LCDs is now the de facto state of things), and SCART has become more viable and popular for carrying RGB, the old Commodore monitors are outmoded, in my opinion. If people have 'em and they work for them, that's great. But I wouldn't be down to recommend that people actively seek them out - possibly not even for C64s and Amigas, since it's potentially possible to hook those up to a PVM, also.

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