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Heavy neutrino posted:I liked EO3 for the range of options that it allowed you to use while still being difficult. I didn't even use a Hoplite when I played -- it probably made the game harder than it should be, but I quickly realized how slow the game was going to be and ditched her in favor of a more aggressive team. All my healing came from a Monk who also had points in offensive skills. In retrospect, it almost certainly made the game a lot harder than it needed to be. Now trying to complete the game without doing any of the sea quests--THAT would be a challenge. No elemental Limit scripts, no Regroup Tactic... Ouch. (Also no exploiting the RNG to get a newly rested or apprenticed character back up to speed in two minutes.)
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Nov 13, 2012 22:51
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Rangpur posted:(Also no exploiting the RNG to get a newly rested or apprenticed character back up to speed in two minutes.) Could you elaborate on this?
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Nov 13, 2012 23:43
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Rasamune posted:Could you elaborate on this? Someone figured out a specific way to trigger the ninja's instant death skill on a high-level sea boss, which would give a ton of experience. It wasn't particularly hard to do and was an easy way to get XP
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Nov 13, 2012 23:47
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Dragongem posted:Someone figured out a specific way to trigger the ninja's instant death skill on a high-level sea boss, which would give a ton of experience. It wasn't particularly hard to do and was an easy way to get XP There are three bosses which can exploited with the RNG. The first involves using a Wildling with Call Tiger, the second and third can be anyone. The first is a pretty simple one that instant kills the third sea quest boss, which is worth a decent amount of experience until around level 20. The problem is that you need to be a pretty high level Wildling to even get the Call Tiger skill, which has a chance of instant killing enemies when summoned. Like most bosses, they have immunities to it, but the Wildling's Mastery skill gives a flat boost rather than a percentage one after checking for this, meaning it can go off. This boss can be accessed almost as soon as you get your ship, though. The second is the King Penguin, good XP into the mid 40s. This requires something like 18 turns of following an exact pattern of moves, but the ninja accompanying the quest can eventually clone enough times that Tagen Battou will oneshot it. This is subject to the RNG being a jerk, though, and can fail! The third, and most important, is Scylla. Scylla gives around 28k exp a pop and goes like so: Do the first quest, bring one person, have them escape on the first turn. You win! (The first quest partners you with a Wildling who has Call Tiger.) All of these have to be done after a reset, but all of them work. Scylla is the most useful by far, though you can't reach the city that unlocks those until you hit the Fifth Stratum in maingame. theshim fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 00:00
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Rasamune posted:Could you elaborate on this? The 2nd-or-3rd to last destination in sailing mode is 'Trade City Aeaae' which grants access to the sea quest "For a Mutated Girl..." where you can fight Scylla. Your NPC companion for the fight is a Tiger summoning Wildling. A Tiger's first action when summoned is to use the Death Gaze ability, which has a 30% of insta-killing enemies at max skill ranks. I believe the 'Wild Mastery' skill (which you have to max anyway to get 'Call Tiger') adds another 15% or so. Most bosses in the game are resistant to instant death--full immunity is rare, but their resistance is so high the odds of triggering it is fantastically unlikely. However... someone found a way to make it go off on Scylla every time. Since summoning his Tiger is the NPC's first action every fight, and Scylla's first action is always a physical attack with pathetic accuracy, well, you get the idea. It works as follows:
EDIT: I mean yeah, it's an exploit, but if you want to play with the various builds and not spend a million hours grinding I don't see the issue. Actually beating the game is the test of skill. Leveling farmbots or whatever is pure busywork. Rangpur fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 01:16
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After reading this thread, I think I will finally get around to playing EO3. And by playing, I mean obsessively designing teams for days before I actually start playing.
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Nov 14, 2012 01:23
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Shwqa posted:Yeah I am not a big fan of royal veil for that very reason, but I like the skills it unlocks. By the time you got 2-3 monarch march you shouldn't need to heal after a battle for the rest of the main game. This was my farming team in EO3. One Prince/ss, three farmers, and then a ninja for the teleport back to the staircase (until I unlocked thread). It was a surprising just how well an under-leveled team with over-leveled gear could destroy floors I had already cleared with my main team.
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Nov 14, 2012 03:19
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I think I'm probably the only person who doesn't make a dedicated farming team in the EO games. Even in EO3 I still used my pair of farmers (Named Jack and Jill) to explore.
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Nov 14, 2012 03:30
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Dr Pepper posted:I think I'm probably the only person who doesn't make a dedicated farming team in the EO games. Oh you gently caress (My farmers were Jack, Jill, Jethro, and uhh I forget the rest) e: Checked my save - Jack, Jill, Jethro, Jonathan, and... Anise. Huh. Troffen fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 03:53
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The correct names for a farming team are Groucho, Chico, Harpo, Zeppo and Gummo. 
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Nov 14, 2012 03:54
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My farmer in EO3 was my bro who is an actual farmer IRL. No, not the ganja kind of farmer, I mean like the real kind.
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Nov 14, 2012 03:56
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I named mine Richard, Banks, Lucre, Cashmere, and Penny. Also, I just unlocked subclassing and I'm thinking about how I want to develop my guild members. Hoplite/Ninja is pretty obvious, but how about Princess/Farmer? And should I bother subclassing my Gladiator before I unlock Shogun?
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Nov 14, 2012 03:58
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Dr Pepper posted:I think I'm probably the only person who doesn't make a dedicated farming team in the EO games. Edit: I just called my farmers "farmbot a,b,c,d,e" Shwqa fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 04:04
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I didn't even bother with the farmbot, just called them a,b,c,d,e.
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Nov 14, 2012 04:26
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That's just silly. Everyone knows if you want to make a team of Farmbots the proper way to do it is five Yggdroids with the Farmer subclass. Y'all just lack the dedication for comedy, is all.
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Nov 14, 2012 04:45
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Look, I...I was young, and desperate for those Red Jaspers, alright?! Also screw Yggdroids.
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Nov 14, 2012 06:14
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theshim posted:Also screw Yggdroids.  Confusing gimmick classes are the best classes. And they could be kinda decent if you subclassed as buccaneer and maxed swashbuckling and data mining.
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Nov 14, 2012 06:25
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Speaking of names, I was unoriginal and had a Monk named Ranma. Yep.
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Nov 14, 2012 06:36
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Solo Shogun/Ninja is also ridiculously fun, able to one shot most Stratum bosses.
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Nov 14, 2012 07:08
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Dr Pepper posted:Speaking of names, I was unoriginal and had a Monk named Ranma. I'm completely unoriginal and just run to Behind the Name, grab a random region and choose names from there. Sometimes I'll grab names that match the class (like Durga for a Gladiator), but usually I just go by gender and what pops out at me.
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Nov 14, 2012 07:34
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So any advice on skill points for EO1? I've got a Protector learning Defender and Troubadour learning Relaxing. My Landsknect is learning 2-Hit at the moment (aiming for Allslash, it sounds nice). Is it worth it to try for something like pushing the heavy fire and ice spells, and the group lightning spell for my Alchemist, or am I spreading myself too thin? Thankfully she's heavy poison at the moment and saving my butt against early FOEs, but I think I'll rest her at some point when poison starts to suck. Medic's got a lot of heal spells that aren't Immunize  , is there any point in putting a lot of points in Cure 1 or 2, or should I go straight to Cure 3? Same with the Salves?Also, does Resting reset all unlocked abilities? I'm assuming so but I can't find it anywhere. Ronin seems pretty nice at hurting things from the one katana I unlocked, what's the difference between that and Landsknect?
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Nov 14, 2012 21:14
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Bellmaker posted:So any advice on skill points for EO1? I've got a Protector learning Defender and Troubadour learning Relaxing. My Landsknect is learning 2-Hit at the moment (aiming for Allslash, it sounds nice). The typical Alchemist build I've seen has been what you described: focusing on the heavy single Fire/Ice spells and Thor, because most of the stronger enemies tend to lean weak to fire/ice so you'll generally just use lightning to wipe random trash mobs. Cure 3 when maxed out has a TP cost that's only a couple points higher than Cure 2, IIRC, so unless you're not planning to focus on healing for some reason it's best to get that up to max ASAP after Immunize. Salve is a bit looser on that since it's generally a TP sink regardless, but I'd probably go at least midway through Salve 2. Resting completely resets your skill point usage. You'll still have to meet the prerequisites for abilities to put points into them. Ronin is generally much stronger than the Landsknecht given comparable equipment, but has the drawbacks of much lower defense and the need to use a turn to set up a stance in order to use most of its abilities.
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Nov 14, 2012 21:29
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I've been slowly adding class and party build advice to the second post if you want a giant info-dump. Otherwise? Stick to one element (and poison) for your alchemist; Ronin are glass cannons compared to Landsknecht, w. better skills overall but no AllSlash. Take that as you will (I like them). Medics probably don't need more points in a healing skill than you need to unlock the next one, but it doesn't hurt. Don't take any of the Protector's anti-[element] skills above 5 if you plan to do the post game. Resting resets skill points so you'd have to unlock higher-tier skills again to use them. What's its most useful for is maxing a favored skill all at once--some of them don't really pull their weight until the 5th or 10th rank and Resting lets you get there without carrying the deadweight in the interim. Honestly, unless you've noticed a character seems totally useless I'd hold off on it until you hit 40 or so.
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Nov 14, 2012 21:33
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Rangpur posted:I've been slowly adding class and party build advice to the second post if you want a giant info-dump. I didn't do any postgame stuff. Why would you specifically not raise anti-Element past 5 if you're going to do post-game? Is it just because they don't use them there (but couldn't Resting fix it?)
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Nov 14, 2012 21:37
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Prism posted:I didn't do any postgame stuff. Why would you specifically not raise anti-Element past 5 if you're going to do post-game? Is it just because they don't use them there (but couldn't Resting fix it?) A glitch in how the anti-element skills worked in EO1 was that at level 5 they blocked all elemental damage and any additional effects the attack may have had, but above that they absorbed damage but secondary effects could still trigger.
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Nov 14, 2012 21:40
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Prism posted:I didn't do any postgame stuff. Why would you specifically not raise anti-Element past 5 if you're going to do post-game? Is it just because they don't use them there (but couldn't Resting fix it?) I think the engine treats null'ed attacks as simply being blocked - absorbed are getting through, so they can proc their effects irrespective of the damage dealt.
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Nov 14, 2012 21:41
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The others beat me to it, but yeah. For what it's worth, this is fixed in subsequent games, so when you play EOII or III, max those suckers out. The continued tinkering and rebalancing is one of the reasons I'm a fan of the series.
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Nov 14, 2012 22:14
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Rangpur posted:The others beat me to it, but yeah. For what it's worth, this is fixed in subsequent games, so when you play EOII or III, max those suckers out. The continued tinkering and rebalancing is one of the reasons I'm a fan of the series. A Ninja/Zodiac with two Prophecies and Bunshin was one of the most important pieces of my level 46 Progenitor fight. The Hoplite would use Antivolt to block Death Thunder (by far the most problematic) and the clones could keep up Ice and Fire prophecies, making my whole party immune to elemental damage as long as I could keep it up.
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Nov 14, 2012 22:47
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theshim posted:I wouldn't say fixed as far as EO3 is concerned, as there's no absorption in it - you have to max the anti-element skills to null the attacks - but this works for EO2. The Prophecies work by preventing the attack from ever going off, also useful (the damage they deal is absurdly piddly). The damage isn't that bad: a maxed Prophecy will do slightly more damage than a maxed elemental Star skill. The problem is that most element-using enemies will of course be resistant to the element they use. There are some exceptions, though: the ultimate postgame boss is actually vulnerable to all elements, which is nice.
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Nov 15, 2012 00:38
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I wish they made respeccing cost money instead of levels. It would still require grinding but you wouldn't become feeble when doing it.
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Nov 15, 2012 00:55
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Thuryl posted:The damage isn't that bad: a maxed Prophecy will do slightly more damage than a maxed elemental Star skill. The problem is that most element-using enemies will of course be resistant to the element they use. There are some exceptions, though: the ultimate postgame boss is actually vulnerable to all elements, which is nice. You never use the Prophecies for the damage, is what I'm saying.
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Nov 15, 2012 01:05
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The grinding can be a pain, but the loss of levels shouldn't cripple your Rest'd characters unless you're doing it all the time. Levels make all the difference when it comes to skills, but equipment is much more important when it comes to raw survivability. If, in the first game, you Rest a 40th level character but keep the same equipment on them they shouldn't be a liability. If they are, ya might wanna consider upgrading their equipment. It's one of those things that has a much smaller effect if you do it at a high level than a lower one. That's why I keep going on and on about early game builds. If you've managed to raise your party to an average level of 60, chances are you don't need the advice anymore.
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Nov 15, 2012 01:11
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theshim posted:Also screw Yggdroids. Yggdroid/ninja is the best class, solo all the endgame bosses except the last sea boss because you can't dodge Supernova reliably.
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Nov 15, 2012 01:23
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Count Uvula posted:
The problem with Yggdroids is mostly that you have to pick them over Shoguns, and it's hard to stack up against a Shogun. Well actually, the problem is that all of their active skills aren't worth the trouble. All of the skills that involve self-binds are lame (with the exception of Rocket Jump), HP Cannon is impossible to use effectively, and there is already another class with a stupid soloing gimmick that outclasses the stupid soloing gimmick the Yggdroid has with its Bots. So I agree; if you want a play to a Yggdroid's strengths, it should be to its ridiculous HP and Strength, and to it's interesting passive skills. If you want an offensive Yggdroid, the best way to go about it is probably Yggdroid/Buccaneer. You get a really high critical hit rate, and a chance to fire off a bunch of hits in the same turn is always nice. EMP Barrier is also worth giving a shot, because unlike HP Cannon, you can deal with the very slight HP loss from only putting 3 skill points into Overheat. Yggdroid/Ninja is another good one to boost your evasion to offensively large levels, and Yggdroid/Hoplite might be interesting if you mix Provoke with EMP Barrier. Just stack on all of the compounding passive skills you can, because it's not like you're going to do anything else with 60 TP. I mean, there are things that could possibly be interesting about some of the Yggdroid skills, but I'm not holding my breath. For example, if the Thunder element counterattack from EMP Barrier counts as an attack that can be chased, you could summon a bunch of Yellow Bots and then just hunker down with defend and let your swarm of angry robotic bees do your dirty work. But I have a feeling that it wouldn't trigger anything.
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Nov 15, 2012 01:48
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Dinky Duck Race posted:Yggdroid/ninja is the best class, solo all the endgame bosses except the last sea boss because you can't dodge Supernova reliably. EDIT: To clarify, the knife-based Ninja skill 'Tagen Battou' requires you to have at least one Bunshin clone on the field to use. In a 5-man party that's all you have room for. On the other hand, if you have a smaller party then you can fill ALL the empty slots with clones, and the damage rises accordingly. At skill rank 10, with 5 clones on the field, you get 3-5 hits with a damage multiplier of 5280% Under ordinary circumstances this is of limited use because the hits are assigned randomly, and it's a STR-based skill on a class with lovely STR growth. Yggdroids, on the other hand, have the 2nd highest base STR in the game. Only Gladiators outdo them, and even then it's only by a couple points. And if you're facing an enemy 1-on-1... I love that I've played the game for 100+ hours and still miss class/skill combinations like that. Rangpur fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Nov 15, 2012 |
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Nov 15, 2012 02:03
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You can go ahead and max Overheat for 50% more damage since your HP will be in the dumpster anyways because you use Kumogakure. Maxed Night Vision, Senpuku, Kumogakure plus a bunch of luck and agility books mean literally nothing will hit you. A second floor platypus managed to poison me through max Virus Scanner and give me a game over once, somehow. Also at max level Yggdroids have the best strength, Arbalists are a close second, and Gladiators trail behind like 5 points for third.
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Nov 15, 2012 03:38
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Complexcalibur posted:Yggdroid/Hoplite might be interesting if you mix Provoke with EMP Barrier. Just stack on all of the compounding passive skills you can, because it's not like you're going to do anything else with 60 TP. Data mining 10/10 Infravision 10/10 Virus Scanner 10/10 Yellow bot 5/10 Overheat 3/10 EM Barrier 10/10 Provoke 4/10 Magic Parry 10/10 Parry 10/10 Spear Mastery 4/10 Blitzritter 10/10 40% chance to avoid attacks. 18% chance to nullify any attack. 50% to counter with lightning attack. Massive damage increase due to passive. Yellow bot that chases lightning. And a lightning attack that cost very little tp.
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Nov 15, 2012 04:14
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So I picked up EO1 again, to finally play during my free time. For my team I have decided to go with a Protector and Landsknecht In front, and an Alchemist/Medic/Survivalist in back. This is the build I played through almost all of the game with before I set it down and never really had any trouble. I am curious if the classes I never used (Dark Hunter, Troubadour, Ronin, Hexer) Bring much unique to the table, or are really worth trying to place on my team.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:01
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Troubadors are a solid support class that provides both useful buffs for major fights and TP regeneration for prolonged dungeon-crawling. Ronin are all-out attackers: they're better at dishing out single-target damage than Landsknechts, but are easier to kill and have inferior multi-target attacking options. Dark Hunters and Hexers are both kind of gimmicky in EO1, but both become incredibly good in EO2.
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Nov 15, 2012 06:08
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In late maingame EO3 I decided to go with a TP conservation party. There were two cornerstone characters in the party. The first was a ninja princess who could buff a row for 1 TP while healing them for 42 each. I went ahead and maxed Royal Veil on them even though it's generally a weak skill because it played into the cheap healing scheme. Now that's pretty good, but you also need a way to do ridiculous amounts of damage without TP. That's where the Shogun Buccaneer comes in. Attack up to eight times a round with max limit boost. Then you can activate lethal limit at the beginning of every combat, so he's doing eight critical hits instead. (Of course, the Sho/Buc is also a perfect setup for Warrior's Might if you happen to be fighting a boss.) To be fair to the rest of the team though, the gladiator and the arbalist were both dealing plenty of damage with attack order and lethal order on all the time too.
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