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Question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmnJ0-a5i40 Lee. Australian Shepherd. Lives out at that shelter. Human aggressive, so not going anywhere soon. Are aussies double coated? Could this shaving have hurt him? He gets loving awful mats because he spends half his time in a muddy wading pool. I can't imagine anything being worse for his skin than that, and they gave him that metal thing to chill in the shade with. I had nothing to do with this, but if this is bad I could take over it next time and not clip him so close. His hair has grown out quite a bit now, and it doesn't seem to be in bad shape. They've been shaving him every year for a while now, anyway. Trying to, at least. They'd break out goddamn horse clippers that still couldn't get through his mats, this only happened because they bought some shiny new ones.
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Nov 30, 2012 11:16
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If the dog's matted enough the clippers are having a hard time getting through, AND the dog is aggressive, AND the dog's been getting shaved, I'd say the damage is done. The coat would be better at keeping the dog regulated if it were natural, but it's been cute SO short that I'm guessing when it grows in it's mostly fuzzy undercoat with tiny prickly guard hairs growing in at a snail's pace near the skin. It sucks because since it IS mostly undercoat, it's probably the kind of thing where the coat is matting because it's growing in weird, but then the only thing to do is shave it, so it's a vicious cycle. On the plus side, he has nice, dark skin, so you don't have to be as worried about sunburn.a life less posted:I'm curious what your grooming routine would be for a dog like mine: Personally, I think less is more. She always looks beautiful, so you're doing a good job.  I rarely use anything other than a metal comb on dogs like Cohen, though. Sorta personal preference. I think it gets the undercoat out better than any brush could, and I'm always afraid of damaging the coat. I've never had a problem with hair breaking with the comb, where I have had issues with other brushes. Does that shedding blade even take anything off? I'd be afraid of breaking the coat with that, too. Have you ever tried a comb? Might take more undercoat out, but I tend to look at a dog, try every tool I have at the shop (because I get that option  ) and just use what works best.Captain Foxy posted:From what I understand, their little asses are just so abrupt that they have a harder time getting it out naturally. I make jokes about Keeper being an anal-retentive but I suppose it's realistically accurate. This. At the shop where I work, we HAVE to squeeze every rear end, not my call, so I do it. If it were up to me, I would just check it and only do it if it needs it. I don't do Buddy's. I check them maybe once a year, but he's a big dog on a good diet, so he's fine. Most of the small dogs I know really need theirs done, but I don't know how much of it is from them being small, and how much is from having a lifetime of rear end-squeezings already. I think it's definitely something that should be checked regularly, especially with small dogs, though, because if there's a problem it could potentially become a really big one and your dog may never show signs like butt scooting. Scary Ned posted:What kind of brush will actually get hair off my dog? He has a sort of medium-coat that changes length and texture a couple of times a year for no particular reason. Here it is looking long, minus the 8" of hair I hacked off the bottom of his tail, and the 3" I cut off his butt: You think maybe Bris was shaved down before you got him? Kinda looks like he might have been, that could make the hair really weird like that. Same advice as Cohen, I just try things until I find one that works.  Like The Big Whoop said, blow-outs are great for hair like that. Sometimes the undercoat just gets stuck to the root and there's nothing else to do but get the dog wet. Sometimes I'll take a spraybottle between baths and mist down Buddy to loosen the hair, then brush. You could see if something like that might help? I use a flea comb on him, too, those little tight teeth don't leave much room for the undercoat to slip through.Damnit, I am SO CLOSE to catching up! Almost there, then I'll look up and see what old client pictures I have lying around. 
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Nov 30, 2012 13:25
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I have to say the term "shave" tweaks me out because I've had it ingrained in me to say clip instead.The Big Whoop posted:Eh, the stupidity and skill level of the chains depends store to store. I lucked out and got a sort of slow salon that only had one part time groomer, so I'm sort of using it as an "externship" to improve my overall skill level (I am very self conscious about my clips). Also, sometimes at chain stores you'll meet a private shop owner who wants you in their salon instead when they've seen your work. I'd do it for the experience, because there's an hourly if you don't have any dogs that come in as well, and the insurance kind of kicks rear end (if you can get it, I can't currently) Greylicious, think about it as an opportunity to educate people who want to do right by their pet but don't have the knowledge base. I wouldn't waste your money on grooming school, I'd just find a job a stick to it to get the experience. I've met groomers that are completely self taught that are AMAZING and I've met groomers who went to fancy pants grooming schools and suck balls. It's about having the talent and the ability to practice. Besides, you pretty much already went to grooming school by learning under a master groomer. Eventually I'll move onto something better, but for now, I'm learning more about the business side of things. Yeah the benefits are a huge thing, I did see one of the stores near me was hiring some time ago and it looked pretty tempting. I certainly have a lot of experience hour and breed wise at least, as the shop I was in was super busy and it was only my boss and I. We would groom anywhere from 8-12 dogs a day, depending on breeds. I usually never even took time for lunch (no time to stop grooming). I understand that there are both good and crappy groomers that still pass grooming school, but still it's nice to have the certification. It'd at least get me a little more confidence about certain breed patterns. And doing eyebrows on brow'ed breeds. I've always hated trying to do them and usually had my boss do them.  Really going to miss where I was. Especially certain dogs and certain owners. And holy crap the stories and things that went on. It was always an...interesting job. And my boss and I had lots of fun together.
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Nov 30, 2012 17:23
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I just don't understand why anyone would shave a Pom. I mean, most people get Poms because of the hair. I know I'm supposed to come to the realization that they just don't know what they're in for, but the crazy Persian and Pomeranian Lady part of my brain refuses to acknowledge it, I guess. Incidentally, Beau's almost nine months old and his coat is enormous. It's so long and thick and lush and  and I can't wait to get him to my new groomer. Wanna see him done right.
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Nov 30, 2012 19:09
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Greycious posted:I have to say the term "shave" tweaks me out because I've had it ingrained in me to say clip instead. Nothing is going to give you more confidence but experience IMO Certifications may look good, but you don't need a piece of paper to tell you how good you are! Yeah I'm at about six dogs a day now, could be doing 8-10 if my bathers were allowed to work with my dogs. We are REQUIRED BY LAW to not be in the salon while off the clock. It sucks because my bathers have no idea how to check in a dog... it's okay if the owner says "same thing as last time" but everyone's work looks and feels different! My hand isn't as heavy as a lot of people's, so my other groomer's 7's and my 7's look a little bit different. I usually say shave when I mean something close (7's, 10's and under) and say clip when they get a 5 or longer. Rufus En Fuego posted:I just don't understand why anyone would shave a Pom. I mean, most people get Poms because of the hair. I know I'm supposed to come to the realization that they just don't know what they're in for, but the crazy Persian and Pomeranian Lady part of my brain refuses to acknowledge it, I guess. A lot of our dogs were impulse buys from a pet store or BYB. The variation in Yorkies in particular blows me away. I'd ask to see some pictures of dogs like your pom before deciding on a groomer.
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Dec 1, 2012 04:34
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Ugh, shaving dogs when they don't need to be really ticks me off. This was our Husky/Malamute before he was ours, when our roommate owned him and then ceremoniously dumped him on us because he didn't want him anymore. "He looks hot, I should get him shaved." He's the one with the pointy ears:  His hair has pretty much grown back, and he looks so awesomely like a proper dog now.  I really need to take more pictures of them where it's not just their backs, whoops. Oh, to make matters more hilarious, PetSmart, where he was clipped, continuously calls asking if we'd like to get him groomed again. Yeah, NOPE.
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Dec 1, 2012 13:07
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Groomers, I come to you humble and ignorant. When Kaydee's coat explodes all over the place twice a year (and oh god, does it explode) I always notice that what I'm pulling off of her by the ton is thin, white and really wavy throughout about 90% of her body. She's got straight fur, though.  Her undercoat being wavy is okay, right? Or am I doing something terrible in grooming her?
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Dec 1, 2012 13:24
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I can answer this! Yes, undercoat is wavy. It's what makes their coat poofy and insulating and thick and makes it soft and plush. I don't know if groomers can expound further, but it's totes normal.Also, what do you as groomers use for flea and tick shampoo? Do you give dogs flea baths at all? I ask because we took a foster to a DIY dog wash place, and they had us use Biogroom for the fleas, which was AMAZING. Didn't smell like a regular flea dip, sudded well, and killed those suckers pretty much instantly while washing out clean. Do you guys use anything else if at all? Also, whyfor the powder fragrances at the end of a groom? I find I don't like them at all as it leaves the coat feeling off and the smell is not my favorite.
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Dec 1, 2012 16:12
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I think most of the Biogroom products are pretty decent. Other groomers and people who want to spoil the hell out of your dog, try the Mink oil. Spray a little on after a groom Makes their coat super shiny and soft. Especially black smooth coated dogs look amazing. I don't know much about flea dips other than they are pretty out dated. I've never used a dip, and really don't know anything about them. I'm gussing you're just talking about a flea and tick shampoo. I used Delrex a lot where I worked. Almost any flea and tick shampoo from PetEdge is probably good. We always did a flea bath on any dog with fleas because we didn't want live fleas in the shop. We didn't charge more but always informed the owner and suggest they put them on a topical solution from the vet, and to wash the dogs beds and blankets etc. I always would give the dogs a finishing spritz after their groom, we did have a baby powder scented one but only usually used that on puppies We had a whole collection of awesome different scents. My favorite was a lily apple scent I liked to put on the girl dogs. We did have some owners who didn't like sprays so we just would mark it on their card not to put any on. Just nicely ask your groomer for no scented sprays! Nicely, don't tell them that your dog smelled like a Paris whore house. (someone told us this before) Because then we will laugh and wonder how you know what that smells like.
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Dec 1, 2012 21:17
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We have this espree stuff which smells really awesome for fleas. It works pretty well. Dipping is indeed outdated, (think, "let me just dunk my pet in pesticide, that always works righhhht") We wash all flea infested dogs in it (and charge sixbux extra). Right now is freakin' flea season where I live, it's crazy. Some people who are doing the monthly preventative stuff aren't getting any results because the fleas in this area are immune to it. I mostly end up recommending an oral flea medication because of that. I kind of want to print out that flea write up from here, maybe change some things so they're a little more...vanilla so no one gets offended so I don't have to explain to EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER about the flea baths and vacuuming. I had a customer come in with her aussie who was absolutely infested, and she brought him home after I explained to her that she needed to obsessively vaccum. We ended up giving him a second flea bath for free because he went home and got infested all over again. Sigh. Greylicious, I will try the mink oil. Our shop has a lot of different smells, but no baby powder. It's basically a "finishing spay/combination body mist" sort of thing so they don't go out just smelling clean. Fluffy Bunnies, she is a double coated breed, of course her coat EXPLODES 2x's a year. For pups like that I usually blow out the coat with a force dryer and then give the dog a bath and then brush it (sometimes while force drying) like mad. Grab an undercoat rake or a metal comb-- furminators work okay but I don't use them because they tend to cause brush burn and tend to ruin the topcoat. Ashamee, did his hair grow back alright? Does he have any bald spots? The Big Whoop fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Dec 4, 2012 |
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Dec 4, 2012 04:25
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I *think* the pdf in the puppy thread is cleaned up for that exact purpose, but I can't recall how much editing I did. So yeah, read it over again. I think it helps to have something people can read over because sometimes things don't stick.
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Dec 4, 2012 05:54
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The Big Whoop posted:
Longer cord and I think a stronger motor. The cord has moving parts in it, so it's tough to keep horses from stepping on it and people from flinging it around the barns and such. So easy to break, so wonderful to use 
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Dec 4, 2012 07:35
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I just got a rescue dog on Sunday, and his first bath didn't go well. How can I keep him smelling nice without traumatizing him? Maybe my method, which I've used on previous pets, is wrong. I do gentle sprays with the hose to wet them down, lather them up, then rinse and give a rub down with a big towel.
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Dec 5, 2012 00:04
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jizzsock posted:I just got a rescue dog on Sunday, and his first bath didn't go well. How can I keep him smelling nice without traumatizing him? The hose can be pretty scary for a lot of dogs, and the water is cold. Try giving him a bath in the tub next time, get in your bathing suit if it's a big dog to make things easier so you can just stand in there too and use a cup to pour water over them. If it's a big dog and you don't want to try it that way I'd look for a do-it-yourself dog bathing place. In-between bathes (and dogs shouldn't be bathed more than every 4-6 weeks) you can use a waterless shampoo or scented sprays to keep him fresh and from being stinky.
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Dec 5, 2012 00:56
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Greycious posted:The hose can be pretty scary for a lot of dogs, and the water is cold. Thanks for the advice. My roommate owns the house and didn't want dog hair in the drains (I know, but try telling him that), or I would have given the new guy a nice warm shampooing.
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Dec 5, 2012 02:18
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I know of people who will smear a bunch of peanut butter on a paper plate, tape the paper plate to the tub wall (or whatever), and just let their dog go to town on it while they bathe them. Certainly makes bath time more enjoyable, I think, if your dog's not too freaked out to eat. Could you get a hair catcher for the drain? I got a really simple one from Bed, Bath & Beyond and it works great.
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Dec 5, 2012 03:12
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The Big Whoop posted:Ashamee, did his hair grow back alright? Does he have any bald spots? It appears that his hair is back to normal. No bald spots that I've found, and he was shaved in July, and just started getting his hair back in September. He's as fluffy as can be, and we prefer him that way. Never doing that again. I still am baffled that PetSmart still calls asking if he'd like to be groomed. Do they not educate their groomers on double-coated dogs and why you should leave their fur alone?
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Dec 5, 2012 03:16
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The Big Whoop posted:Broken/Wire Coat: TERRIERS. Jacks, Airedales, Schnauzers etc. This is a coarse coat with three hair follicles growing in it. If you touch the dog, it should feel really rough. The original purpose was to protect these dogs from harsh elements. The outer layer is dead hair. The proper way to groom these dogs is to hand strip, or card the hair. This involves pulling the top layer of dead hair out of the follicle, however most pet owners decide to clip instead. It leaves a silkier coat ruins the rough texture most of the time. I've heard of some groomers being able to repair this coat type, but I personally don't believe it. Hand stripping is a labor intensive job and expect to be hard pressed to find a groomer who can and will do it. Also expect to pay a lot more. Oh, you absolutely can repair a wire coat that has been shaved to a harsh, show coat jacket. It takes time and skill, but I have seen it done by one of the top show Schnauzer/Terrier groomers around many times. You're going to be stripping the dog bald for awhile, but the harsh coat does come back. Also, as a side note, there are different types of wire coats that require different types of maintenance. For example, Miniature Schnauzers have a "one shot" coat, you have to strip them bald, grow it in, and then you have about 8 weeks of "good coat" before you have to strip it all out and start over. Most other hand stripped breeds have coats that can be "rolled" though, meaning you can maintain the jacket with daily maintenance, such as raking with a grooming stone, and then trimming as necessary. The coat grows at different speeds on the dog's body, so you have to keep that in mind and time when to strip what (flat work needs to be done weekly, etc.). Each breed has a pattern to follow when you start hand stripping them so you end up with a coat that has grown in completely even. Yes, it is labor intensive and kills your hands (speaking from experience here), if you want to learn hand stripping, you will have to apprentice under a Terrier breeder and/or handler for a very long time. If you're a dog owner wanting your dog hand stripped instead of clipped, the going rate is about $150 an hour, when you find someone that knows how to do it and will take on a new client.
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Dec 5, 2012 03:38
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Thanks for the informative post SolanaSkies! I'd eventually like to get to that point, but I need to work on my pet clips first. I've also heard of someone stipping the coat to the point where the dog was bleeding, and that's not something I am willing to do. I have a mental Hippocratic oath that I took when I started working with animals. The last thing I want to do is hurt a dog! Ashamee Big box pet store training is ALL OVER THE PLACE. Sometimes you get a really good trainer, sometimes a really poor one. Because we book in advance, and some people just get into grooming for the money, sometimes the groomers will just take the money (80-100 dollars which nets 40-50 dollars in their pocket for a big fluffy shavedown ugh) :\ in 'Smart, the groomers are not allowed to take bath dogs because their bathers are paid hourly instead of commission... although sometimes they do it anyway. Also when it comes to any salon, if the owner is deadset on something, and we refuse to do it, they'll just find someone else to do it for them. Better for them to make the money than someone else I guess vOv Enelrahc I want the hanging one verses the one that has the belt. Is the price range about the same?
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Dec 5, 2012 08:44
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jizzsock posted:Thanks for the advice. My roommate owns the house and didn't want dog hair in the drains (I know, but try telling him that), or I would have given the new guy a nice warm shampooing. Depending on where you're located you can contact a big box pet store (I go to Petco) and do a self service bath. It is absolutely the best thing ever no mess in your house, appropriate height tubs so you back isn't killing you, use of the force dryer, ect. And since I've been going to the same place for so long the groomer will paint my dog nails, give me little spray samples, and fancy dog decorations all for 
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Dec 5, 2012 17:36
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Skizzles posted:I know of people who will smear a bunch of peanut butter on a paper plate, tape the paper plate to the tub wall (or whatever), and just let their dog go to town on it while they bathe them. Certainly makes bath time more enjoyable, I think, if your dog's not too freaked out to eat.  DenialTwist posted:Depending on where you're located you can contact a big box pet store (I go to Petco) and do a self service bath. It is absolutely the best thing ever no mess in your house, appropriate height tubs so you back isn't killing you, use of the force dryer, ect. And since I've been going to the same place for so long the groomer will paint my dog nails, give me little spray samples, and fancy dog decorations all for If you're in New York, don't bother, neither Petco nor Petsmart do self-service grooming. The local places around me start at $15 if they even take big dogs at all, while the nearest Pet $aver is 20 minutes away and they charge $13 for a half hour.   New York
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Dec 5, 2012 20:35
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Skizzles posted:I know of people who will smear a bunch of peanut butter on a paper plate, tape the paper plate to the tub wall (or whatever), and just let their dog go to town on it while they bathe them. Certainly makes bath time more enjoyable, I think, if your dog's not too freaked out to eat. More good tips. He may get a thorough cleaning yet. I'll check the local pet stores for self-service, but how does that help with the aversion he has to the process? The suspect in question. 
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Dec 6, 2012 02:26
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jizzsock posted:More good tips. He may get a thorough cleaning yet. I'll check the local pet stores for self-service, but how does that help with the aversion he has to the process?
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Dec 6, 2012 02:39
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jizzsock posted:More good tips. He may get a thorough cleaning yet. I'll check the local pet stores for self-service, but how does that help with the aversion he has to the process? They will have a much easier way to secure him in the tub. The tub itself will have high walls and will have a slip lead type set up to keep him still. Honestly for bath type stuff I fall into the just loving deal with it camp-stay calm, work quickly, don't baby the dog and they will get better over time (or at least less frantic). Bathing just happens so infrequently it can be very difficult to actively train the dog out of behaving poorly.
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Dec 6, 2012 03:05
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jizzsock posted:More good tips. He may get a thorough cleaning yet. I'll check the local pet stores for self-service, but how does that help with the aversion he has to the process? Really generic, but I did a whole write-up on getting your dog used to grooming for the small dogs thread.
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Dec 6, 2012 03:07
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Gonktastic posted:Do you know much about his breed or history? He is the mirror image of my mutt! The paperwork says boxer mix, but I don't really see it. I've had a pure boxer in the past, and I don't see any of it in the head, and very little in the body. Thanks for all the feedback!
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Dec 6, 2012 03:57
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Yeah my dog shuts down and gives me the biggest, saddest eyes as if I've destroyed his world when I give him a bath. He grooms like a cat so he rarely needs one, but I take him to the local self-serve wash at the pet store. He'll take treats fine up until we get into the bathing room and he realizes what's going on. I just try to stay calm and upbeat, maybe try and get him super excited before and after so the bathing room is at least kind of a fun place. pictured below: the saddest dog  
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Dec 6, 2012 04:02
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jizzsock posted:The paperwork says boxer mix, but I don't really see it. I've had a pure boxer in the past, and I don't see any of it in the head, and very little in the body. Looks like a ridgeback mix, imo
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Dec 6, 2012 04:09
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Captain Foxy posted:Looks like a ridgeback mix, imo  Are you in Central California by any chance? I swear they look like littermates. To groomchat: How short do you all who use a Dremel go with black nails? I feel like I'd like her nails shorter, but I'm not really sure what's usual. Please note the camping shower visible in the top left hand corner. It is great, if there's sun. Gonktastic fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 04:29
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jizzsock posted:Thanks for the advice. My roommate owns the house and didn't want dog hair in the drains (I know, but try telling him that), or I would have given the new guy a nice warm shampooing. Your body hair is longer unless you're in the military  You can also buy a camping shower so you can hose him down outside without it being icy loving cold. I learned this from being a carriage driver - you can't put a horse in the tub to shampoo, but you definitely have to do it in the winter.
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Dec 6, 2012 04:31
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Pile of Kittens posted:Your body hair is longer unless you're in the military My 13lb smooth coated terrier use to leave a pile of little white hairs all over the grooming table at work when I brought him in, it was incredible. And yes, even lots of little white hairs in the drain stopper thing too.
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Dec 6, 2012 04:46
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Gonktastic posted:My Ridgeback/(shepherd?) mix that was adopted to me as a Rottweiler/Boxer mix agrees. NE Florida, and his paper work says he's from the Tampa area. I did have a few friends who pointed out his prominent spine and said Ridgeback mix.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:52
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How has no one suggested a hair catcher for the drain yet? They make them in all shapes and sizes to accommodate different types of drains. It's especially easy if you've got the kind of drain that's just a hole in the floor, so you can pick up one of the cheap mesh ones made for catching food in the kitchen sink for like 2/$1 at the dollar store.
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Dec 7, 2012 02:02
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I suggested it several posts up. 
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Dec 7, 2012 02:22
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Skizzles posted:I suggested it several posts up. I guess I got distracted by your puffy dog.
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Dec 7, 2012 03:14
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Gonktastic posted:My Ridgeback/(shepherd?) mix that was adopted to me as a Rottweiler/Boxer mix agrees. I usually clip the nails first and then round it out with the dremel, using my thumb as a guide on the top of the nail itself. There's usually a little darker black spot in the middle of the nail. Also, hello fellow central coast goon! Whereabouts are you?
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Dec 7, 2012 10:19
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Thanks for making this thread! I always have a terrible time explaining to the groomer what I want. I usually just tell them to trim up his face and make his skirt (??) as short as possible while still keeping it long, like right below his belly. Yesterday, though, poor Teddy got butchered. Could you maybe help me to better articulate what I'm going for? Here are a few photos of Teddy in his ungroomed state:  How he looks when he's starting to get a little scruffy:  I really liked how he looked after this grooming appointment, especially his face:   This is what he just came home looking like yesterday. This was $75+ at what is supposed to be one of the nicest groomers in SF. Needless to say, he's going back tomorrow so they can fix it. It's all different lengths and choppy and his ears look weird and they shaved parts of his nose? Am I being overdramatic or is this objectively horrible? Also, what would you recommend I tell them to do to fix it?  Bonus "AAAHH, I'M GOING TO LOOK LIKE THIS IN THE FAMILY CHRISTMAS PHOTO TOMORROW!?!" pic.  Thanks in advance .
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Dec 7, 2012 23:32
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I don't know if this is preferable or annoying in the eyes of a groomer, but what if you brought pictures of Teddy from when he had a good haircut? (like the one you posted of his face) I know I do that when I go get a haircut, so is it similar for dogs? I know when I worked at a kennel that had an attached groomer, one of our regular clients asked for some specific groom and the groomer misunderstood and shaved most of the dog's hair off. Basically, imagine a sort of chow/shepherd with all of its hair shaved short, except for part of its neck/chest/head and then a poof on the end of the tail. The poor girl was so stunned when she picked her dog up, and I didn't blame her. Also, every time I see this thread, I read it as "Oh Great, another Labrador Showdown" and imagine a dog fighting ring of Labs.
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Dec 7, 2012 23:40
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Maaan Teddy they done hosed you up
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Dec 7, 2012 23:42
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Is tipping a thing for groomers? It had honestly never occurred to me to tip a groomer until it was mentioned in another PI thread. I don't want to be "that guy" and not tip.
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Dec 8, 2012 01:44
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