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I bought every iteration of Ikaruga from dc to xbox 360 and 1cc'd it. It's a fun shmup and good. I also have radiant silvergun on the xbox and it is hard but a fun shmup. Also no anime girls for ships.
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Dec 11, 2012 01:23
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Whatever gently caress it, I don't want to loving do this dumb argument, just let it be known that no one is persecuting you for liking Ikaruga or Treasure games or saying they're total poo poo and you are a casual scrub for enjoying them. Let's just take a deep breath, let this go, and talk about Strikers 1945.
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Dec 11, 2012 01:30
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ZackHoagie posted:Whatever gently caress it, I don't want to loving do this dumb argument, just let it be known that no one is persecuting you for liking Ikaruga or Treasure games or saying they're total poo poo and you are a casual scrub for enjoying them. Let's just take a deep breath, let this go, and talk about Strikers 1945. They show someone playing that in like a one second shot in last weeks running man and I was all yo thats strikers 1945.
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Dec 11, 2012 01:33
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fivegears4reverse posted:All this, and you still haven't answered what is really wrong with people liking those games. Instead, you're making assumptions of everyone you're disagreeing with. Can you really not see the problem with people who don't understand or even play shmups (or any other genre) controlling the popular narrative about which games are good or important?
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Dec 11, 2012 01:41
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ZackHoagie posted:Whatever gently caress it, I don't want to loving do this dumb argument, just let it be known that no one is persecuting you for liking Ikaruga or Treasure games or saying they're total poo poo and you are a casual scrub for enjoying them. Let's just take a deep breath, let this go, and talk about Strikers 1945. A simpler time of showing the player the topless pilots on a high-scoring 1cc. There's a video I really want to find. Most of Psikyo's games usually have the enemies fire directly at the player, without compensating for movement or anything. Given that and a fairly spartan number of bullets, most early parts of Psikyo's lineup can be beaten by just randomly flying around the screen and not really trying to dodge anything, and this video was of exactly that. Can't find it any more though. Tch.
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Dec 11, 2012 01:44
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Can you really not see the problem with people who don't understand or even play shmups (or any other genre) controlling the popular narrative about which games are good or important? Can you not understand that this genre was long supplanted by other more popular gaming genres, and that people who share YOUR specific tastes have been reduced to the extreme angry minority bitching about the "kids" who just don't "get it"? Are you going to tell me that reviews are the reason why CoD is as popular as it is? Do you really, reeeeaaaally subscribe to the theory that people are just too dumb to have their own tastes, and that it is impossible for a larger number of people to enjoy the same things for reasons that aren't in the marketing pamphlet/review text? Shmups aren't a dying breed because some reviewers you never listened to think Ikaruga was great. They are dying because gaming has become able to provide a different set of experiences that more people gravitate to. Not to mention, it's a genre that is an incredibly tough sell as is. I bought Under Defeat HD for 30 bucks. The game essentially has five levels, ten if you count the second loop. It's incredibly simple, visually its not exactly mindblowing. I'm the kind of person who bought it because I like shmups, but its not a game that is going to reel in new fans regardless of whatever some jackass on 1up.com has to say. A genre changes over time, its fans grow or shrink in number over time. Things that you might specifically sperg out about, like a scoring system, a chain system, or enemy placement, are things MOST people who play videogames in general DO NOT GIVE A poo poo ABOUT. They don't "see" the "genius" behind a game like Mars Matrix. They see a hard-as-balls game that kills them simply for even trying to play, a game that managed to get harder to play and becomes visually less comprehensible the farther they manage to go. Other genres have grown in popularity by expanding their audiences. Shmups continue to only appeal to people like you and me, and we're getting older. When we post with the elitist mindset you have, we only further cement the shmup as a thing only real self-professed fans enjoy.
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Dec 11, 2012 01:54
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I like anime girls.
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Dec 11, 2012 02:08
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Can you really not see the problem with people who don't understand or even play shmups (or any other genre) controlling the popular narrative about which games are good or important? This would hold more water if Ikaruga was shunned by hardcore shmup fans and only embraced by the mainstream when it came out, but that's not what actually happened. I agree, it sucks when a mediocre product gets praised when fans of the genre know better (assuming Ikaruga is a mediocre product, which is just something I'm going along with for the sake of this argument), but fans of the genre were the ones pushing it so drat hard when it came out in the first place. Hindsight may be a bitch in this case, but it's still hindsight. This whole discussion is beginning to feel uncomfortably like something from RPGCodex.
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Dec 11, 2012 02:11
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Can you really not see the problem with people who don't understand or even play shmups (or any other genre) controlling the popular narrative about which games are good or important? Can you really not see the problem when people are hating something just so they can sound cool for hating something? (hint; you're doing this)
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Dec 11, 2012 02:28
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I'm fairly sure Radiant Silver Gun was more accepted when you were stuck with a hard to find Saturn game or going for an STV PCB. Once it became available to the common horde people started to go after it. It's not the best game but it's good fun.
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Dec 11, 2012 02:29
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SilentD posted:I'm fairly sure Radiant Silver Gun was more accepted when you were stuck with a hard to find Saturn game or going for an STV PCB. Once it became available to the common horde people started to go after it. I will admit, it has flaws (isn't it almost the longest shmup to go through without loops?) but there is stuff to enjoy, like a unique scoring system (Which is one of the big things you try to do to differentiate between shmups) And the idea of mixing up weapons is cool. Radiant Silvergun isn't for everyone, but you can say that of all shmups.
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Dec 11, 2012 02:32
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You're acting as if my statement was predicated on my personal like/dislike of Ikaruga, which it isn't. Ineffiable posted:Can you really not see the problem when people are hating something just so they can sound cool for hating something? I don't hate Ikaruga - I probably won't ever bother playing it again, but I can think of a million worse games. What I do hate is the fawning adoration it receives from people who've barely even played it or any other shmups, and how it still persists after all these years. (ps you forgot to call me a hipster) sethsez posted:This would hold more water if Ikaruga was shunned by hardcore shmup fans and only embraced by the mainstream when it came out, but that's not what actually happened. I agree, it sucks when a mediocre product gets praised when fans of the genre know better (assuming Ikaruga is a mediocre product, which is just something I'm going along with for the sake of this argument), but fans of the genre were the ones pushing it so drat hard when it came out in the first place. Hindsight may be a bitch in this case, but it's still hindsight. See, I tend to remember a whole lot of hype before the DC release and then a whole lot of "...that's it?" when it finally arrived - not universally, but opinions were definitely split. Again, my problem isn't that [bad game x] gets more attention than [good game y], it's that the hegemony has been established by people who can't actually explain what makes it good beyond the superficialities, or provide an educated comparison between it and contemporaneous games, or whatever. Ikaruga was always gonna be that game, for a lot of reasons - it's A Treasure Game, it was the last big release for a dead console with a lot of sentimental attachment, the polarity gimmick is easy to explain - but if it wasn't Ikaruga it would have been something else, and I'd be annoyed for exactly the same reasons.
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Dec 11, 2012 02:54
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I like everything about Ikaruga except playing it, I think it's extremely well designed in every aspect, I just don't find it fun, I do enjoy seeing others play it though so I can oggle the art style and listen to the soundtrack though. I wish more kinds of shmups I like had the levels of polish that it had. Completely different topic but has any strides been made in SH3 emulation? I'm not looking for  or anything, just want to know if I'll ever get a chance to play Espgaluda 2 in a form that doesn't completely blow, I heard talk of Cave considering bringing it's games to Steam, but I really doubt that'll happen.
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Dec 11, 2012 03:01
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Reive posted:I like everything about Ikaruga except playing it, I think it's extremely well designed in every aspect, I just don't find it fun, I do enjoy seeing others play it though so I can oggle the art style and listen to the soundtrack though. http://www.coinopexpress.com/products/pcbs/pcb/Espgaluda_2_PCB_6493.html + supergun or cab. I paid about 350 for a used one, coin op's prices are rather inflated. Superguns are fairly cheap to cobble together and IMHO a must have for any shooter fanatic.
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Dec 11, 2012 03:08
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Reive posted:I like everything about Ikaruga except playing it, I think it's extremely well designed in every aspect, I just don't find it fun, I do enjoy seeing others play it though so I can oggle the art style and listen to the soundtrack though. It's still considered . The MAME devs developed a driver for them then pulled it when Cave asked them not to kill their business. There's always the iPhone versions. They play better than you'd think on a touchscreen v vedit: I guess I'm finally getting sick of this back and forth, because we're honestly wasting our time arguing about a dead genre. This is like a normal people vs. creationist argument only one hundred times worse because we're talking about video games with maids that throw thousands of knives at once and can stop time. That being said, there was a make your own shmup game for the Famicom that never made it out of Japan, and it's driving me crazy trying to think of the name of it  VVVVVVVV I used to discount reviews like that too, until I realized all the games I really hate don't have a scene anymore at all. That and Jeff Gerstmann hates SFxT as much as I do. There's also the notion that every game in a given genre is someone's first, too. Bovineicide fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Dec 11, 2012 |
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Dec 11, 2012 03:15
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:I don't hate Ikaruga - I probably won't ever bother playing it again, but I can think of a million worse games. What I do hate is the fawning adoration it receives from people who've barely even played it or any other shmups, and how it still persists after all these years. You keep going on and on about how there are all these "fans" who "persist" in "worshipping" a game you don't care for. These are people who, you claim, aren't "qualified" to sing the praises of Ikaruga because they, as you have also claimed, haven't played the classics that you prefer. You're not quite a hipster until you start saying poo poo like "I played it/disliked it before other people thought it was cool", which from your posting I can imagine you being seconds away from doing just that. You're basically bitching about the gaming equivalent of YouTube comments somehow "ruining" the perception others have of your precious shmups. You're also making the same argument some fighting game grognards have made about fighting game reviews. "Well if they aren't able to play at pro level then they shouldn't review the game/the review is worthless." It doesn't occur to them (just like it hasn't occurred to you) that reviewers are not beholden to the hardcore fans of any particular game or genre, and they shouldn't be held only to their standards because not every gamer who plays a fighter or a shmup is going to be the sort of person who dissects a shmup for very specific qualities. For many of those people, a game like Radiant Silvergun, Ikaruga and Gradius V might be good enough. Speaking of Gradius V, it feels like another Ikaruga to me, where the fans of the series and of shmups in general thought it was hot poo poo before it actually came out, and after a bunch of outsiders took a shine to it the hardcore crowd started finding any reason they could to poo poo all over the game.
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Dec 11, 2012 03:15
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Gradius V gets loving insane on higher loops. This is what loop 255 looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxm82esJelk Of course, that's almost nothing compared to higher loops on ReBirth, where enemies will shoot massive bullet cones at you when destroyed. Seriously. The player in that video is also a really good Gradius player in general. (Although he does die a few times, but given the ridiculous amount of extra lives...)
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Dec 11, 2012 03:26
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fivegears4reverse posted:You keep going on and on about how there are all these "fans" who "persist" in "worshipping" a game you don't care for. These are people who, you claim, aren't "qualified" to sing the praises of Ikaruga because they, as you have also claimed, haven't played the classics that you prefer. You keep trying to frame my comments as if I'm purely upset that [game I don't like] is getting the sort of attention that only [game I do like] "deserves", which is not only not what I said but something I already stated I didn't mean.
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Dec 11, 2012 03:37
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Personally I really like Ikaruga, but I like it for what it is. It's a very hardcore memorizer and if you aren't chaining you aren't playing it, and I don't mean just stage 1. Sorry if that sounds elitist or something but I think people who just hold fire through it all get a clear then put it down forever and talk about how awesome it was are totally missing the point. It's a puzzle game. That said if you're having fun good for you! It's not worth getting mad about mainstream reviewers, this genre is way dead, and people just don't want to play it no matter what a reviewer says about it. Although there was one where this woman was doing Raiden 4 and was totally confused about rotating the screen, that one did get under my skin a bit. I don't like the older games but I loving love most cave games. There is just nothing else like getting in the zone on a good run and feeling like you're in the matrix and you just know you're not gonna get hit cause you can see everything. I really like both the Mushi games for being a good mix of fun bullet dodging and simple to understand scoring, that is a good mix of risk and reward not overly frustrating like Dodonpachi. I saw it mentioned a lot of posts back but I really hate the word shmup too, I try to say STG but no one knows what the gently caress unless they already play.
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Dec 11, 2012 03:54
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Bovineicide posted:It's still considered Hey buddy, the make your own shmup? Pretty sure thats Dezaemon! It's gotten a release even on the N64! Let's just stop arguing about the games and admit that it shouldn't matter what anyone thinks of them. The only thing that matters is if you actually enjoy the game itself after playing it.
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Dec 11, 2012 04:10
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There are several Dezaemon games: the Famicom one (which has a translation patch), SFC Dezaemon (also has a patch and a BS-X version), Dezaemon 64, Dezaemon 2 for the Saturn, and Dezaemon Plus and Kids for PS1. One of the PS1 games is on PSN in the US actually if I remember right, but it's untranslated. Someone came up with a nifty tool for getting Dezaemon 2 save files containing games a while back as well. Zeether fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Dec 11, 2012 |
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Dec 11, 2012 04:27
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Thanks! Definitely giving those a shot sometime. I remember seeing it in Nintendo power of all places as a kid, and it was a pretty sizable blurb for an import game. I think I tried to track down a copy through one of those import shops that had ads in EGM at the time, but it was more expensive than Arkanoid if I remember it right.
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Dec 11, 2012 04:35
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I grew up playing so many goddamn arcade shooters, that I can still remember enemy and bullet placements in quite a few of them. Interestingly enough, I played through Life Force on the NES recently with my friend. Just to be safe I put in the Konami code, as neither of us have played the game since the early 90's. He ended up having to dip into my reserve of lives, while I no deathed it. I even remembered the trick to escape the last gauntlet easily. I hate to think of all the things I've forgotten, just so I could retain a photographic memory of that drat game. This here is a little game called Armed Police Batrider. Made by Raizing (the Battle Garegga guys, went on to be a large part of Cave), this game is pretty much the reason why I went and bought a portable emulator. What I like about it is the sum of all it's parts. Not quite a bullet hell shooter (which get old real loving fast), but with plenty of poo poo flying around. Tons of playable characters (including an entire row of hidden ones), and insane multiplayer. Great visuals, with plenty of stuff that goes boom, and a soundtrack that only seems to encourage you to blow more poo poo up. All in a very loud and fast package. This shooter honestly just kicks rear end (also part of the first bosses theme title). It's not as technical as some of the later cave shooters, and it's not as balanced as Gradius, but man is it a fun ride.
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Dec 11, 2012 04:56
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Fuckstick McNally posted:I really like both the Mushi games for being a good mix of fun bullet dodging and simple to understand scoring, that is a good mix of risk and reward not overly frustrating like Dodonpachi. I'm guessing you are excluding Mushihime-sama Maniac/Ultra there, because that scoring system is one of the most obtuse I've ever seen in a shmup, and it's actually even more brutally anal about chain memorizing than DDP is. Basically the source of most of it is that there are a lot of weird "glitches" that occur due to how the child laser counters work, that let you do all kinds of batshit skyrocketing of your chain counter. For example here are just a few techniques you need: Hold C Mash A - Your option lasers do more damage when you do this. It's used mainly to kill bosses and certain enemies quickly. The faster you mash, the more damage. Short Hold A - You hold A for a little bit, then release and press it again as fast as possible. From what I recall this helps build your chain a bit faster than normal without sacrificing the child counters. Mash C - This is the main 'banking' technique. Your child meters drop like a rock BUT you add them to your main counter every time you press C. This is the source of the really colossal gains you see like on the end part of stage 3, to the nature of like +600000 and such. And that's just 3 of them anyway. There are other fast/slow/medium rhythm tapping techniques, including some that you only use for 1 spot in the game and things like that. I seem to recall hearing that the guy who has the top score has something like 5-7 different kinds of auto-fire buttons for different situations. I can't find those old videos where it shows the guy's hands when he does all the stuff. This video is a really good run where you can see a lot of the techniques used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7Ruek27WPU Especially watch around 3:30, that's where the Mash C banking really comes in. Anyway, just thought you might be interested in seeing how crazy the scoring systems are in the game. It's pretty unique, to say the least. Guwange actually has some scoring mechanics that are pretty similar to these as well actually, though the rhythm ones are more boss milking centric.
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Dec 11, 2012 07:00
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Salamander 2 looks really fun to me, why does everybody seem to hate it?
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Dec 11, 2012 07:02
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Volt Catfish posted:Salamander 2 looks really fun to me, why does everybody seem to hate it? I didn't know it was particularly hated. The graphics are pretty weird and some stages don't look that great, but I like it a fair bit. It is kind of easy and short though, so I guess that might be a reason why Gradius fans wouldn't like it? By the way for any fans of Gradius-like games, if you haven't played Gradius Gaiden (PSX) you are doing yourself a huge disservice, it's easily the best Gradius game there is. Awesome stage design, great music, four different ships to use as well. It's hard in places but it's not TOO hard. There aren't any checkpoints where you are completely hosed either (though there are ~2-3 that are pretty brutal). Oh, and the second loop has a ton of surprises in it as well. Really great game, and it's best to just emulate it unless you have an actual PSX sitting around. It doesn't right run on the PS2.
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Dec 11, 2012 07:08
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:mushi I know how it works but choose to ignore it because it's so dumb and it's never affected my enjoyment. I refuse to believe it's intended, because it's pretty out there even for cave. I know they included rapid fire settings in the PS2 and 360 ports so in my mind they just said whatever and ran with it. I mean there's just no way they thought that was a good scoring mechanic.
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Dec 11, 2012 07:45
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I switched from keyboard to an arcade stick recently but I've just been playing toho 6 because the whole MAME situation seems to have gotten a lot more complicated
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Dec 11, 2012 08:38
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Giga Wing. Do Giga Wing. I recommend the Dreamcast version of Giga Wing and Mars Matrix if that's an option; both run more smoothly (less slowdown) than the arcade versions and have some extra modes and unlockable fluff.
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Dec 11, 2012 15:46
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Found a good bunch of game reviews on shmups: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE435vS9mHFSx3nF5Pky9xkzVxvP5PFUI Which one of these are worth playing? It looks like the PS3/iOS/Xbox Live are the platforms of choice for these games, which makes my PC sad. Sure there's MAME but I'd rather the devs/publishers give us a proper port.
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Dec 12, 2012 05:01
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Tezzeract posted:Found a good bunch of game reviews on shmups: There are basically zero sales, so new titles and ports that are more than a quick virtual console emulation are pretty rare. The only "companies" really still making them are Cave and G-rev. Sine Mora is out on steam, I really like it, it is a divisive game in terms of taste though. Jamestown is also out on steam, it is pretty mediocre IMO, but no one seems to really hate it. I don't think there's been a PC port of a commercial game since Raiden 3. There are some pretty good Doujin shooters. If you want something new and awesome for your PC, and you want to support a quality dev, you can pick up a copy of Crimson Clover here: http://www.tokyoshmups.com/ Pretty much all the games in the classic game room reviews are worth playing, you'll notice most of them are Saturn, Genesis or Dreamcast games. If you have an xbox, then browse through the XBLA section. Trigger Heart Excellia is on there, KOF Sky Stage is surprisingly good, Cave ported (and improved) Guwange, Treasure ported Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga, Sine Mora is also up there as is G-Rev's Strania. EDIT: As a reminder, I am doing a SHMUP tourney thing which, if I keep going with it, might serve as a good hands on lesson for the history of the genre. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3521932 Sizone fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Dec 12, 2012 |
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Dec 12, 2012 06:03
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So you can get Raiden Legacy on Android and iOS now. It's got Raiden Fighters 1, 2 and Jet along with the original Raiden. They all run fantastically on my iPhone 4, though it's admittedly a little difficult to control them with a touchscreen. I'd say it's a great package if you're into shmups at all, regardless of the controls.
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Dec 12, 2012 14:52
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Volt Catfish posted:Salamander 2 looks really fun to me, why does everybody seem to hate it? People hating on games that are fairly short and simple to complete normally. I like it. But then again I loved salamander/life force on the NES. Despite it being not all that great of a game. I guess it's just nostalgia.
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Dec 12, 2012 15:01
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Lonely Rolling Star posted:I grew up playing so many goddamn arcade shooters, that I can still remember enemy and bullet placements in quite a few of them. Interestingly enough, I played through Life Force on the NES recently with my friend. Just to be safe I put in the Konami code, as neither of us have played the game since the early 90's. He ended up having to dip into my reserve of lives, while I no deathed it. I even remembered the trick to escape the last gauntlet easily. I hate to think of all the things I've forgotten, just so I could retain a photographic memory of that drat game. I remember playing this game somewhere, and I couldn't remember who developed it, or what the name was. Thanks for posting this, I've been looking for this for quite a while. It's chaotic as gently caress with two players, and I'm definitely throwing it in my MAME folder for game night this week. I started playing ESP Ra De this week. You can probably put the blame on Cave for inspiring every moeshmup ever with this game, but I'm having a ton of fun with it. Given comments elsewhere, I think I'm the only person who likes the scoring system in this game. Why we can't get more shmups that are basically Stephen King's Carrie versus Yakuza is kind of beyond me. I really wish Cave would make more batshit games like they did in the '90s.
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Dec 15, 2012 03:20
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Bovineicide posted:I started playing ESP Ra De this week. You can probably put the blame on Cave for inspiring every moeshmup ever with this game, but I'm having a ton of fun with it. Given comments elsewhere, I think I'm the only person who likes the scoring system in this game. The base scoring system (the 16x mechanics and item grabbing and all that) are really great. The problem is there's a really bad boss milking mechanic that Cave knew about and willingly left in the game, despite it completely ruining the scoring mechanics of the game. Just ignore that crap and it's a really good game though. Had they fixed it, I'd probably say it's up there with Cave's best.
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Dec 15, 2012 03:44
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:The base scoring system (the 16x mechanics and item grabbing and all that) are really great. The problem is there's a really bad boss milking mechanic that Cave knew about and willingly left in the game, despite it completely ruining the scoring mechanics of the game. Yeah, I didn't mention any of that because it looks so drat tedious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q8KkRuKUAo. I would recommend that people just pick Yusuke for your first time through and have fun with it. I never played ESPGaluda 1, but the scoring in this game is at least a lot more fun and intuitive than the Ron Paul system from 2. edited for clarity. Bovineicide fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Dec 15, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 05:38
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Recently shoot-em-ups have been appealing to me more than first-person-shooters and the like because they're more "honest" games. Games like Metro, Far Cry, Battlefield, they offer large and lush landscapes and give the impression of freedom of movement, but they restrict you to a mostly linear route for the sake of a pre-defined "experience" that prioritises characterisation over gameplay, the director's narrative and sense of pace trumping the player's. Games like Dodonpachi MAXIMUM, Crimson Clover, Unidentified Fantastic Object, they put the player on a railroad without giving any illusions of scope beyond the range of the screen, so the game is less of a series of set-pieces and more of a long-term test of endurance - in this kind of context, if the game offers alternate paths and prizes like in Darius, they feel more like pleasant surprises than features that the player is entitled to from the start. It's like the difference between a lightgun ride at a theme park, and an open area of the same theme park where you're constantly told to hurry up, look don't touch, and keep up with your escort. Outside of all that, Ikaruga is a game that I admire more for its black-and-white concept and the potential it allows for, than the actual gameplay itself.
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Dec 15, 2012 19:13
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I've been playing a ton of shmups lately because I haven't been able to make it to any local fighting game ranbats lately. They scratch the same kind of itch for me, but instead of playing against a human opponent, your opponent is the game itself. I've mentioned Hellsinker before, but I guess I have a somewhat more complete trip report on the game now. The game originally came out in 2007, but somehow got an English translation patch this year. Kind of odd considering the game came out five years ago, but whatever. The Good: It is honestly one of the most complete, fleshed-out, and unique experiences I've ever had with a shmup before. There's a tremendous amount of depth here that makes every other manic shooter I've played lately feel shallow by comparison. After clearing stage four, you essentially have 10 character choices unlocked, and learning one feels like learning a fighting game character. The character I'm using currently, Deadliar, has to use a charged shot coupled with an option because his main rapid shot isn't really useful for anything outside of milking points from bosses. There's also a system in place where you can slow bullets down around your character and convert them into point items. The game also benefits from having a shitload of content like optional stages and branching paths. The character variety, stage design, Battle Garrega-style rank system, and bullet-eating mechanics make it really hard for me not to recommend. There is a bit of a learning curve compared to most games, but the grade system and the abundance of extra lives make it pretty doable. The Bad: As I've said previously: weaponized moe and other dumb otaku garbage. The options Deadliar and other characters use are called "Mistletoes," which are
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Dec 21, 2012 16:15
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Bovineicide posted:Hellsinker...Touhou Okay, the Shrine itself may be too  for the jaded, but that whole stage is an anomaly: infinite lives, an opportunity to flat-out multiply your score, and a set of Touhous in contrast to the other 10+   bosses in the other 8 segments of the game. I find it to be a refreshing change of pace in an hour-long slog. Mistletoes are still stupid, though, and the final boss throwing them out like candy... I guess I'm numb to that stuff. At least they're easily cancelled by the bullet shield.Disclaimer: I like Touhou. One wrinkle I love about Hellsinker is that it keeps three distinct leaderboards: Spirits (score), Kills, and Tokens. It's difficult if not impossible to score high in all three categories. Focus on high-spirit targets and you miss all the popcorn enemies. Tokens fly upward and require you to dance around like Dangun Feveron, and don't even add to the Spirit total. I don't think any other game has multiple scoring paths like that. waddler fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Dec 22, 2012 |
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Dec 22, 2012 09:28
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 22:58 |
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Re: Hellsinker I've been listening to a bunch of topcast podcasts which is a show wherein pinball table designers, mechanical engineers, sound guys, artists and what not get interviewed. One of the biggest recurring themes throughout the interviews is that the problem with pinbal, why it has practically vanished, why only Stern is still in business, why Python Ahngelo is a Randian, is that the game got too complex during the mid 90's for the casual passerby to enjoy. That is, if you look at, say, any of the current Stern tables, the rule sheet is just too complex. You have to dump 20$ into the game before you can even figure out what's going on, what sequence you need to hit the ramps and the targets in order to trigger the various modes, then how to complete those modes. You then have to dump another gently caress knows how much before you can hope to get good at it. Compare that to pins from the 80's and earlier, even if you don't master it, even if it's the first quarter you've put into it, if it's a good machine you will, at least, be able to have some fun with it. I think SHMUPs have the same problem. Between difficulty solely for the sake of difficulty and especially complexity just for the sake of complexity, Hellsinker is the goddamn epitome of why this is a dead genre. By their nature, we're talking about arcade games, the kind of thing you can just pick up and play. Hellsinker is the first time I've played a SHMUP and just had to give up because I could not figure out the basic mechanics to it, let alone how to play it well. Contrast this with Gigawing or Mars Matrix. You won't get good at those games without a lot of practice. They bring something new to the table, their play mechanics are novel and take some getting used to, but you can figure those mechanics out on your first game. You can see what it is you're doing wrong and that you need to improve in order to play better. Something like Hellsinker, I think your only choice is to watch a youtube video of someone who doesn't suck at it.
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Dec 22, 2012 10:38
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