TDI-Diesel Megathread: Smoking is good for you!

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fknlo: Jul 6, 2009; Fun Shoe

quote:

A few weeks before I got into this Audi Q5 TDI, I spent several days in the SQ5, which is basically a lifted S4 wagon. The SQ5 is a land rocket for families that will leave some sports car drivers wondering if they made the right choice in vehicle. As you can imagine, I was prepared for a big step down in performance with the diesel version, which wasn't even an S model. After a week of the normal suburban grind followed by a short family road trip, I came away wondering which version of the Q5 is the clear winner.

First let's start with some specs. The Q5 TDI is powered by Audi's 3.0 liter direct-injection turbo diesel V-6 which produces 240 hp and 428 lb-ft of torque. For comparison sake, the SQ5 uses a supercharged 3.0 liter gas V6 producing 354 hp but only 347 lb-ft of torque. The Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel, which might be the Audi's closest natural competitor, also uses a 3.0 liter turbocharged V6 producing 240 hp and 420 lb-ft of torque. The Q5 TDI weighs in at a relatively svelte 4415 lb while the Jeep has nearly half a ton on it weighing in at 5401 lb. The Jeep is substantially bigger on the outside, measuring 7.2 inches longer than the Audi's 182.6 length and 2.6 inches wider than the Audi's 82.2 inch width. The substantial size difference results in just 0.7 inches difference in front legroom and 1.2 inches in rear legroom. The biggest difference is 11 cubic-feet in trunk volume, the Audi at 57.3 compared to the Jeep's 68.3 cubic feet.

So, what difference does a thousand pounds make in performance numbers? Turns out it's huge. The Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel is no slouch getting to 60 mph in 7.8 seconds and through the quarter-mile in 16.0 seconds at 83.3 mph. The Audi TDI however destroys it, blasting to 60 mph in 5.7 seconds and ripping through the quarter-mile in 14.4 seconds at 92.8 mph. Well what about the Grand Cherokee with 5.7 liters of thumping of V-8? Nope, Audi still takes it to school with the V8 Jeep still needing 6.6 seconds to get to 60 mph and 14.9 seconds for the quarter, but it does match the Audi's trap speed. So the moral of the story: unless you're in the SRT Grand Cherokee, don't mess with Audis at the stoplight grand prix.

Acceleration, especially at launch, is downright shocking in the Audi. The TDI is actually a tenth of a second faster to 30 mph than the SQ5, 1.7 seconds compared to a 1.8. Brake torqueing the TDI gives a little exhaust growl, but also a little whistle from the turbo spooling. Side step the brake pedal and all 428 lb-ft of torque twists through the driveline and yanks the ground from under you using all four contact patches. The first couple of launches were downright shocking in their force. It's completely unexpected in a vehicle that looks so sedate. While I'm not sure I could buy a Q5 and not check the $3500 S-Line box on the order sheet, I can really appreciate the sleeper aspect of this car. After 30 mph, the SQ5 can use all that horsepower up high to walk away from the TDI, but at the low-end, there isn't a comparison.

As we know, roads aren't always straight, and the Audi again excels in the turns. The Q5 TDI, even in non-S trim, puts in a pretty impressive 26.8 second figure-8 lap which is only 0.4 seconds behind the SRT's lap time and 2.4 seconds faster the diesel Jeep's lap. The Audi also does 60-0 mph a full 7 feet shorter than the Grand Cherokee Diesel's 122 feet. The SQ5 does the figure-8 in 25.9 seconds and stops from 60 mph in 104 feet.

In fairness, as stated above, all roads aren't straight, but all roads aren't paved, either. Without testing back-to-back I can't say with 100% certainty, but my gut feeling is that if you want to go offroad, and I mean really offroad, there is no choice but the jeep. The Audi will be phenomenal in snow and on dirt roads, but on real trails, it will quickly become obvious which one is the SUV and which one is the CUV.

If you were buying by the pound, the Grand Cherokee is without a doubt the better deal. The Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit 4x4 EcoDiesel we've been referencing here came in at $56,990 while the Audi Q5 TDI we tested had a sticker price of $51,445. Our tester came with the MMI Navigation Plus Package that includes a rear view camera, driver information display, navigation, voice control, Audi Connect and HD Radio. The only other option is the Glaciar White Metallic paint that is responsible for $500 of the final price. Our Real MPG Testing matched up with the EPA ratings of 24 city, 31 Highway pretty well with our tester recording 23.5 mpg urban and 33.1 mpg in extra-urban. The Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel is rated at 21/28 city/highway mpg respectively. Again, that extra 1000 lb and bigger frontal area take their toll.

So the question is, if it came time to plunk down my hard-earned cash on either the TDI or the supercharged SQ5 which way would I go? Well, I think if it were my money, the TDI with S-Line package is the way to go. Not only would I feel better about using less fuel, but the fact that the TDI will easily surpass a 500 mile range on road trips is what makes it so attractive. There is also that deep down low diesel torque that makes it so effortless to accelerate in everyday situations.

Go test drive one of these if you can. The powertrain is just flat out amazing. Really wish it was available in the platform I wanted here.

# ? May 28, 2014 03:58

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 00:32

AlternateAccount: Apr 25, 2005; FYGM

So popping the hood on a 2010 Jetta TDI, how much vibration of the engine is normal? I am not expecting a BMW V12, but should there be SOME motion sitting at idle?

# ? May 28, 2014 16:58

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

AlternateAccount posted:

So popping the hood on a 2010 Jetta TDI, how much vibration of the engine is normal? I am not expecting a BMW V12, but should there be SOME motion sitting at idle?

Not significantly more than a similarly modern 4-cylinder gasoline engine.

How bad is it? If it vibrates this much, you may have a busted dual-mass flywheel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D3xgi1d5gQ

# ? May 28, 2014 17:11

AlternateAccount: Apr 25, 2005; FYGM

KozmoNaut posted:

Not significantly more than a similarly modern 4-cylinder gasoline engine.

How bad is it? If it vibrates this much, you may have a busted dual-mass flywheel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D3xgi1d5gQ

Hmm, it wasn't THAT bad, but it was definitely worse than my old Integra. That's the last 4cyl I've driven but it's been years. I'd say it was about half of that? Definite motion, but...

This looks about like what I saw, I guess I'll be walking away from this one :\

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCEqO027bIA

AlternateAccount fucked around with this message at 18:02 on May 28, 2014

# ? May 28, 2014 17:59

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

AlternateAccount posted:

So popping the hood on a 2010 Jetta TDI, how much vibration of the engine is normal? I am not expecting a BMW V12, but should there be SOME motion sitting at idle?

I was a bit curious myself so I took a video after running an errand and mine is basically dead-still at idle, so much so that nearly all the shaking in the video is from my hands holding the phone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDx-jxOpMsE

# ? May 28, 2014 18:28

AlternateAccount: Apr 25, 2005; FYGM

Shifty Pony posted:

I was a bit curious myself so I took a video after running an errand and mine is basically dead-still at idle, so much so that nearly all the shaking in the video is from my hands holding the phone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDx-jxOpMsE

Really appreciate this. Found another one at a different dealer with only 34k miles, so that's probably a better option anyway. Thanks a lot.

# ? May 28, 2014 18:51

NinjaTech: Sep 30, 2003; do you have any PANTIES

I've been having an issue with hard starting when the engine is cold. The glow plugs don't seem to come on at all. It doesn't seem to matter what the temperature is either. 40F or 80F, it still has trouble. Less so when it's 80F though. I know the plugs work since I can unplug my coolant temp sensor, which I recently replaced, and it will fire right up after the plugs cycle. So unless I installed a bad brand new CTS I don't think it's that. Do you guys have any ideas? I can check for codes again but It only ever throws an EGR code since it's been deleted.

# ? Jun 2, 2014 22:41

veedubfreak: Apr 2, 2005; by Smythe

Thoughts regarding using my TDI Golf to tow a bug 1000ish miles from Arizona back to Colorado? Not sure how comfortable I am with driving out to buy a bug then attempting to make the 1000 mile trek back in it.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 19:55

NinjaTech: Sep 30, 2003; do you have any PANTIES

veedubfreak posted:

Thoughts regarding using my TDI Golf to tow a bug 1000ish miles from Arizona back to Colorado? Not sure how comfortable I am with driving out to buy a bug then attempting to make the 1000 mile trek back in it.

I'd be ok with it, depending on how it's being towed. I regularly tow 1200lbs + ~300lbs of cargo with my Golf TDI and have no issues. There are also guys that tow 5000lb airstreams all over the country that don't seem to have any major issues.

NinjaTech posted:

I've been having an issue with hard starting when the engine is cold. The glow plugs don't seem to come on at all. It doesn't seem to matter what the temperature is either. 40F or 80F, it still has trouble. Less so when it's 80F though. I know the plugs work since I can unplug my coolant temp sensor, which I recently replaced, and it will fire right up after the plugs cycle. So unless I installed a bad brand new CTS I don't think it's that. Do you guys have any ideas? I can check for codes again but It only ever throws an EGR code since it's been deleted.

I finally figured out my hard starting issue. I ordered a VCDS kit from Ross-tech and got it on friday. Saturday I got it all setup and checked my pump timing. The timing was so retarded that it wouldn't even show up on the graph. So after setting the timing it now starts like a champ when cold.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 21:23

veedubfreak: Apr 2, 2005; by Smythe

Bug towbar. All 4 wheels on the ground just like a trailer.

And if I get out there and something doesn't look right, I'm only out the fuel and a couple days of driving.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 21:55

NinjaTech: Sep 30, 2003; do you have any PANTIES

veedubfreak posted:

Bug towbar. All 4 wheels on the ground just like a trailer.

And if I get out there and something doesn't look right, I'm only out the fuel and a couple days of driving.

I think you'll be fine. I wouldn't hesitate to do that with my golf.

# ? Jul 2, 2014 22:01

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

NinjaTech posted:

I've been having an issue with hard starting when the engine is cold. The glow plugs don't seem to come on at all. It doesn't seem to matter what the temperature is either. 40F or 80F, it still has trouble. Less so when it's 80F though. I know the plugs work since I can unplug my coolant temp sensor, which I recently replaced, and it will fire right up after the plugs cycle. So unless I installed a bad brand new CTS I don't think it's that. Do you guys have any ideas? I can check for codes again but It only ever throws an EGR code since it's been deleted.

The CTS may be bad still. What model/year?

# ? Jul 3, 2014 04:17

BlackMK4: Aug 23, 2006; wat.; Megamarm

KozmoNaut posted:

Not significantly more than a similarly modern 4-cylinder gasoline engine.

How bad is it? If it vibrates this much, you may have a busted dual-mass flywheel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D3xgi1d5gQ

Haha, that's my video. The car did have a bad DMF.

# ? Jul 3, 2014 04:48

NinjaTech: Sep 30, 2003; do you have any PANTIES

CommieGIR posted:

The CTS may be bad still. What model/year?

It's a 2003 Golf GL with the ALH engine. It looks like the CTS is fine. What makes you think it could be bad?

# ? Jul 3, 2014 20:25

ThirstyBuck: Nov 6, 2010

I've been jonesing for a Golf TDI for a long time.

Here is the type of stuff that comes up for sale around me.

http://wheeling.craigslist.org/cto/4798105696.html

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/4793393268.html

2002 Vw Golf TDI 5 speed .190k miles .Runs drives stops .Guardrail pinstripe on the pass side. Just did timing belt, water pump and tensioners. Turbo isn't working. Still gets 40+ MPG . Has good Wv sticker. Text

I don't mind something that needs a bit of wrenching but I'd like for it not to be a total pile.

Do bargain diesel's exist or should I just give up.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 05:53

rockopete: Jan 19, 2005

ThirstyBuck posted:

I've been jonesing for a Golf TDI for a long time.

Here is the type of stuff that comes up for sale around me.

http://wheeling.craigslist.org/cto/4798105696.html

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/4793393268.html

2002 Vw Golf TDI 5 speed .190k miles .Runs drives stops .Guardrail pinstripe on the pass side. Just did timing belt, water pump and tensioners. Turbo isn't working. Still gets 40+ MPG . Has good Wv sticker. Text

I don't mind something that needs a bit of wrenching but I'd like for it not to be a total pile.

Do bargain diesel's exist or should I just give up.

I just spent well over the value of my 165k 2000 Jetta TDI (value is roughly the price in that ad, so a good chunk more than $3000) for accident repairs and routine maintenance. I will readily admit that my affection for this thing is irrational, and I'm not exactly rolling in cash. I don't know if I'm a typical TDI owner, but I intend to keep it till at least 400k, if not 500.

The car you describe doesn't sound so bad, just needs a new turbo, right? Which is a chunk of change, but $4000 for a 190k TDI doesn't sound too bad...? Or is that the point, that this couldn't be called a bargain for any other car?

# ? Dec 10, 2014 16:06

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

ThirstyBuck posted:

I've been jonesing for a Golf TDI for a long time.

Here is the type of stuff that comes up for sale around me.

http://wheeling.craigslist.org/cto/4798105696.html

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/4793393268.html

2002 Vw Golf TDI 5 speed .190k miles .Runs drives stops .Guardrail pinstripe on the pass side. Just did timing belt, water pump and tensioners. Turbo isn't working. Still gets 40+ MPG . Has good Wv sticker. Text

I don't mind something that needs a bit of wrenching but I'd like for it not to be a total pile.

Do bargain diesel's exist or should I just give up.

The turbo is fairly easy to do in the car, just a little cramped. I'd recommend removing the intake manifold to do it, will give you a lot more space.

If you do a new turbo, it should last a good long time. Make sure you ask the PO about what oil they've been using.

Bargain diesels exist, mostly in the forms of Mercedes Benz, but usually when you find a bargain VW TDI, there are problem that need to be resolved. However, if the engine is running and not overheating or bleeding oil like a wounded beast, its generally stuff you can tackle with ease.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 16:18

Sits on Pilster: Oct 12, 2004; I like to wear bras on my ass while I masturbate?

I would be curious to know why the turbo failed. If there was a runaway, there could be engine damage that has yet to show itself.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 16:48

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Sits on Pilster posted:

I would be curious to know why the turbo failed. If there was a runaway, there could be engine damage that has yet to show itself.

Depends. Its the ALH, which is a VNT turbo. It may be that the turbine variable blades are stuck, so the engine is sticking itself in limp mode. Easy fix. Either way, if the engine is running decently at idle and the oil is clean and not leaking, it may be well worth it.

NOTE: I'd avoid automatic VW, especially slushbox TDIs, like the plague.

But yeah, it would be a good idea to look over the engine and run it a bit. The turbo may be 'working' but the ECU is unable to control the variable system, so its locked out.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 17:13

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

Wasn't there someone in this thread that had to give up on an engine over a mystery turbo problem kicking the car into limp mode?

The mechanicals are fixable but when you add in Volkswagen electronics it can get dicey.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 18:17

ThirstyBuck: Nov 6, 2010

CommieGIR posted:

The turbo is fairly easy to do in the car, just a little cramped. I'd recommend removing the intake manifold to do it, will give you a lot more space.

If you do a new turbo, it should last a good long time. Make sure you ask the PO about what oil they've been using.

Bargain diesels exist, mostly in the forms of Mercedes Benz, but usually when you find a bargain VW TDI, there are problem that need to be resolved. However, if the engine is running and not overheating or bleeding oil like a wounded beast, its generally stuff you can tackle with ease.

I've considered getting an MB but I had a Golf in the past and really really liked and used the practicality of the hatchback. My gripe I suppose is that I'm looking at a 10+ year old car and not only are they more expensive than their petrol counterparts, but then they are also usually in poorer repair (and they're all blue w/o a sunroof).

I'd like to offer the guy with the silver vw $1200 bucks, which is what I would do if it were a petrol turbo car (ok probably $1000 with that big scrape).

Alternatively, I could stop crabbing and pony up the cash for a cared for car or just stop lusting after a diesel - but my old bmw eats all of my money and I've got diesel fever.

Thanks for your feedback.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 22:41

lightpole: Jun 4, 2004; I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

fknlo posted:

Motortrend test of the Q5 TDI

Go test drive one of these if you can. The powertrain is just flat out amazing. Really wish it was available in the platform I wanted here.

I had a Q5 3.0T loaner from Audi while my Q7 was getting it's 65k and it felt pretty good and I can only imagine how much better the TDI is. What got me was the engine shutting off at every stoplight, a little unnerving the first time if you aren't expecting it.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 23:43

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 00:32

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

ThirstyBuck posted:

I've considered getting an MB but I had a Golf in the past and really really liked and used the practicality of the hatchback.

Get a diesel MB wagon?

# ? Dec 12, 2014 10:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > TDI-Diesel Megathread: Smoking is good for you!

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