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IceBorg posted:I don't know about that. When he started mentioning protecting someone and a job the first thing that came to mind is that he was SHSL Bodyguard or something in the same vein as that. They are supposed to be intimidating right? Madarai is just perfect for that I think. Technically a ninja can be a bodyguard, assassin, spy, etc. Plus ninjas stereotypically swear their lives to someone.
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Feb 1, 2013 02:57
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Togami certainly seems to be somewhat oblivious to what Monobear is and their situation, however calm and collected. However, Togami could already know what is going on-- and by extension, was maybe even expecting it-- and just hiding it from the rest of the cast while assuming a leader role. I feel that if he were to tell them right out "Relax, I've played this game before and survived!" it'd go badly for him. Not just because of Monobear, if indeed this one doesn't know Togami isn't in their class, but also because the others would turn on him or see him as a threat. For those reasons, I am choosing to stick with the assumption that fat Togami is our old friend Togami.
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Feb 1, 2013 03:16
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I found it surprising she'd know the concept of dust explosions considering her memory problems. Or at least I assume the concept would be something one would learn later in life, and since she can barely even remember things from childhood (or even her own parents), it's just odd. I kind of wonder what she threw at him, it was a white powder, wasn't it? I thought this kind of thing was more common in coal mines or workshops with lots of sawdust.
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Feb 1, 2013 04:34
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Neeksy posted:I found it surprising she'd know the concept of dust explosions considering her memory problems. Or at least I assume the concept would be something one would learn later in life, and since she can barely even remember things from childhood (or even her own parents), it's just odd. I think powdered milk makes for a really nasty dust explosion if I remember my Mythbusters right.  But honestly, I think that any extremely dusty area is at risk of violently combusting from a spark. I remember barns being mentioned in that context at least once.
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Feb 1, 2013 04:40
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e: whoops forgot what thread I was in. NObody cares. Disregard please.
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Feb 1, 2013 04:45
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Suzuki Method posted:Togami certainly seems to be somewhat oblivious to what Monobear is and their situation, however calm and collected. However, Togami could already know what is going on-- and by extension, was maybe even expecting it-- and just hiding it from the rest of the cast while assuming a leader role. Please remember that Monobear has the ability to erase memories and that all of the students that we know of have had that done prior to being brought to the chosen venue.
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Feb 1, 2013 06:10
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Like Clockwork posted:I think powdered milk makes for a really nasty dust explosion if I remember my Mythbusters right. Yeah, it works with any kind of powder that's even remotely flammable.  Combustion is a chain reaction. At high temperatures, fuel and air react to form by-products and more heat. The extra heat raises the temperature, triggering more reactions of the same type, which releasing yet more heat, and so on it goes.When the fuel is a solid object (or a pool of liquid), the reaction can only take place along the surface (because that's the only place there's both fuel and air). The majority of the heat will be carried off by the air or absorbed into the unexposed part of the fuel. That means the chain reaction proceeds (relatively) slowly. If there's enough heat to make the air, you've got a fire. When the fuel is a gas or an airborne powder, the story's different. Fuel and air are everywhere, so pretty much 100% of the heat released feeds back into the chain reaction. The result: exponential growth. Everything combusts in an instant, the energy released creates a pressure wave, and boom! Explosion.
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Feb 1, 2013 06:44
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Shounen manga and light novels always have random science facts or myths that factor into the fight scenes. It's like when they need an idea they hit up whatever the Japanese equivalent of Snopes is and press random until something fits. I was reading another light novel recently that played with the phenomenon of a dust explosion. But it's pretty great that the supposed clever plan was really just a ruse to drop a very heavy object on the guy.Neeksy posted:I found it surprising she'd know the concept of dust explosions considering her memory problems. Or at least I assume the concept would be something one would learn later in life, and since she can barely even remember things from childhood (or even her own parents), it's just odd. It seems to be that our heroine, while having no explicit memory, has excellent implicit memory. Her skill is predictions right? She's either extremely good at physics or psychology based on the chase sequence in the last part. It seems like she's unaware that she has so much knowledge until the moment when she needs it. I wonder if the story is going to shift gears back to mystery genre now or if there will be more SHSL villains for our hero to defeat.
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Feb 1, 2013 08:11
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Neeksy posted:I kind of wonder what she threw at him, it was a white powder, wasn't it? I thought this kind of thing was more common in coal mines or workshops with lots of sawdust. The story said that the shed was full of fertilizer bags. I would think that powdered fertilizer could burn quite well, depending on the exact composition.
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Feb 1, 2013 08:23
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Kytrarewn posted:Please remember that Monobear has the ability to erase memories and that all of the students that we know of have had that done prior to being brought to the chosen venue. Because I'm a colossal manchild who doesn't have anything better to do than theory-craft about Dangan Ronpa 2 (plus I don't like the idea of the villain having a deus ex machina machine that can magic away discrepancies between this game and the previous one), I took this post as an opportunity to skim some things Togami's said and done trying to justify the theory that he does have amnesia. Aside from omission of any mention of past events, the only thing that could really serve as positive evidence for Togami being mind-wiped is the only actual discussion of memory-gaps that's happened so far: orenronen posted:Before I knew what was happening, there was a classroom door in front of me... There've been points brought up against Togami being mind-wiped such that I'm pretty convinced Togami hasn't been subjected to Monobear's memory deletion (I wrote a way-too-big post of Togami-theorizing upthread that's too big to quote here). Re-reading things, I'm not sure what significance to attach to the fact that Togami himself was the one to put the idea of memory-deletion on the table for the whole group. It could mean that he's being genuine and observant. But it doesn't seem that anyone else in the group assumes that their amnesia is anything other than a personal thing. Hinata thinks about it in his monologue, then doesn't publicly acknowledge it. The whole group seems to immediately jump to "Who are you people? Where is this? Are we having an opening ceremony or a surprise entrance exam?" And I mean, Togami is kind of like that, super-analytic and such, but it's kind of a logical leap to go from "I had this strange experience" to "All 16 people in this room had this same strange experience" and thus a weird question to start with unless he was already confident of the answer (which he seems to be). Okay, reading anything into this could be a bit of a stretch. But, if you assume that the little bit of evidence that Togami remembers the previous game is valid and this conversation is read with the assumption that he's not been mind-wiped it reads like he's deliberately leading the conversation so that the rest of the group believe that he's had the same experiences as them. So this conversation doesn't actually prove he doesn't remember anything at all. So... tl;dr I just tried and failed to poke a hole in my own "Togami remembers everything and is lying about it" theory.  and holy poo poo a theory that'd explain all of this plus a lot more weirdness away easily just popped into my head but it'd almost be too good to be true and I really would be super embarrassed if it's wrong. So I'm going to hold on it for now. Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Feb 1, 2013 |
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Feb 1, 2013 10:09
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Eh?! This is everyone?! How d’you figure that, huh?!
So, what should we talk about?
This is not natural. Your stupid faces tell me that you agree.
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ArcadeBumstead posted:
Perhaps her amnesia only effects events and individuals, not knowledge and skills. She still knows the things she knows and has the skills she has, she just doesn't remember how she got that know-how. I don't know if that's a real kind of amnesia, but this is a light novel of a highly stylized game.
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Feb 1, 2013 10:43
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Drakli posted:Perhaps her amnesia only effects events and individuals, not knowledge and skills. She still knows the things she knows and has the skills she has, she just doesn't remember how she got that know-how. This is definitely possible. Procedural memory is the memory of how to perform various skills, and it's a part of implicit memory, which is different from the explicit memories of events we tend to think of as "memory." Ryouko seems to forget explicitly-memorized knowledge (she's in academic trouble because she can't use her notebook on exams, which suggests she can't retain knowledge or consciously learn), but there's no evidence thus far in DR0 that she's unable to care for herself or remember her daily routine, which suggests her implicit/procedural memory is in better shape than the rest. It's hard to say just how realistic this is (most real-life memory-loss conditions I've heard of involve substantial brain damage or disease, so you tend not to get people who can otherwise function like Ryouko does), but it's certainly consistent with the memory loss we've previously seen in the DR games, where people lose years of explicit memory without their implicit memory being damaged. Kirigiri was able to function as a SHSL detective without consciously remembering her skill or her past, and I imagine Ryouko is doing much the same.
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Feb 1, 2013 10:59
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ArcadeBumstead posted:I wonder if the story is going to shift gears back to mystery genre now or if there will be more SHSL villains for our hero to defeat. Hey: who says this dude is a villain? Yeah, he's jumped to an irrational conclusion and ended up menacing our heroine, but remember his motivation. He wants to find those responsible for (what we can only assume to be) The Ultimate, Worst, No-Good, Very Bad Despairing Event and make them pay. He's hunting SHSL Despair. He may be kind of a dick, but his evilness is hardly certain, considering that he's fighting Junko and a girl he (somewhat reasonably) assumes to be her accomplice. Just something to keep in mind assuming he survived his Home-Alone-ing.
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Feb 1, 2013 16:09
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Antivehicular posted:This is definitely possible. Procedural memory is the memory of how to perform various skills, and it's a part of implicit memory, which is different from the explicit memories of events we tend to think of as "memory." Ryouko seems to forget explicitly-memorized knowledge (she's in academic trouble because she can't use her notebook on exams, which suggests she can't retain knowledge or consciously learn), but there's no evidence thus far in DR0 that she's unable to care for herself or remember her daily routine, which suggests her implicit/procedural memory is in better shape than the rest. It's hard to say just how realistic this is (most real-life memory-loss conditions I've heard of involve substantial brain damage or disease, so you tend not to get people who can otherwise function like Ryouko does), but it's certainly consistent with the memory loss we've previously seen in the DR games, where people lose years of explicit memory without their implicit memory being damaged. Kirigiri was able to function as a SHSL detective without consciously remembering her skill or her past, and I imagine Ryouko is doing much the same. Many of the "big name patients" (for lack of a better word) of anterograde amnesia like H.M. do/did show a greater facility for procedural memory than episodic memory, yeah - it's a pretty famous concept. Ryouko's a little more complicated since she also has retrograde amnesia but that's fiction for you - it's still totally plausible for her to retain procedural memory even if she loses episodic memory as they are formed and stored via different mechanisms.
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Feb 1, 2013 17:11
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Couldn't a easy explanation be that she had the dust explosion fact in her notebook? She seems to write everything down.
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Feb 1, 2013 19:01
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  Re: Despair-Syndrome We find Peko right next to the park entrance.  Pekoyama... So you came too.  It seems we don’t have a choice. The Electronic Student Handbook explicitly prohibits opposing Monobear.  Mindless defiance will only serve to aggravate him, and that is not a good idea right now. I hope the others understand that as well. Yeah, that is a little worrying... Anyway, let us head into the park. ...I guess I should go as well.  Into the park we go. Re: Despair SyndromeEveryone else was already at the park when I arrived.   Late again. Do I feel the wind of cowardice blowing?I'd like to deny that... but he’s not entirely wrong.   ...In any case, it seems we are all here.  So, what’s it gonna be this time...? It really is a pain...  ...In that case, you shouldn't have come.  But... who knows what’d happen to me if I didn't...  Oh? That is a good question. I wish you would've tested that for us.  Hey, that was a little too sarcastic! I bet you only came here because you've gotten scared yourself!  ...What did you say?!  I'm saying even a high-and-mighty gangster like you can't handle those monsters. Isn't that right?  You... bitch!  S...Stop it, you two. We're all friends here - we should stick together! Aa? Friends? I think you're making a big mistake, retard. When did I ever say I'm your friend?! ...Eh?  Fine. Since there seems to be some confusion here, let me make this perfectly clear. Music halts ...I won't hesitate to kill any of you. Ocean Breeze Dead End ...Excuse me?  W...What did you say just now...? Ah? Did I not speak loudly enough? Here, let me repeat it for you. Pay attention this time. I. Will. Not. Hesitate. To. Kill. You."Kill"... Does he really mean that? He... isn’t serious... is he?  Here we go again...  ............  This isn't very good. We should try to calm Kuzuryuu-kun down... I think.   That Kuzuryuu... He's being foolish...!   U-u-u-u-u-u-u-m, Um um um um um um... W...W...We have to calm him down...I think we should begin with you...    Let him say what's on his mind... just a little longer.I...Is he really okay with this...? I was sure Togami was going to stop him straight away...    What a showoff... He's just trying to hide that he's afraid, isn't he? Not that he’s gotta be afraid of anything with that cute face of his... Owari... Please don't say that to him directly...   What's up with him...? What the hell is he thinking...?!   What is Kuzuryuu-kun saying...? ...Let's try to calm him down, for now.   K...Kill... Oy... The one word... The one word we needed to avoid...   I...I didn't hear anything, right? I didn't hear anything at all!   Hmhmhm... And so, it begins. The ugly battle between those consumed by darkness...   I wonder what happens if someone opposes Monobear...? Awwww... I wanted someone to try it out.  It would've been a great chance for the extras to do something useful! How unfortunate for you, big bro Souda!   Uh-oh... this's bad, isn't it? Such disagreeable atmosphere!  'Kay, got it! This is where Ibuki pitches in, performs a song and raises everyone's spirit!  ...But, um, somehow she gets the feeling this isn’t really the place for that.   We... shouldn't fight like that! We should all be friends...!   ............ For the time being, let's calm him down. Should the worst case come to pass, I shall......I really hope it doesn’t come to that.  Hey, Kuzuryuu... for the time being, how about calming down a little? Don't say my name so lightly! You have no idea of the world I come from, do you? Where I'm from, it's kill or be killed... Those have always been the rules I’ve had to live with.  Hell, those new rules Monobear set up are much easier for me than Monomi’s “Let’s be friends” crap!  Oh, give me a break! I'm getting really angry! You bitch, don't treat me like a kid! Stop it. This petty namecalling is getting us nowhere. Shut up! Why should I join this farce where we all pretend to be friends?! Hey, if anyone wants to test me, just step forward. I'll kill you here and now...  Finally, something interesting... I'll definitely take you up on that offer...! W...Why are you getting all fired up from such a silly provocation?! …Enough. ...Aa? Kuzuryuu... I understand the way you think.  I do not mean to simply discredit that way of thinking. There was a time I thought the same way, after all... ...Are you gonna treat me like a kid too? But, what do you think is going to happen if you recklessly kill someone? If you can't hide your deeds, you are going to be executed. Or perhaps... that is what you want? Music fades out Is this just a roundabout way to commit suicide so you can escape our predicament? Because that... would be childish.  You... You...!! Beautiful Ruin Listen well! As long as we're on this island, I will not let anyone die! Under my watch, there will be not a single victim! That includes you, Kuzuryuu. I will not allow you to die! W...What's up with you...?! Don't act so pretentiously...! You're right. Had I been your average person, this would be nothing but talk. But I am no average person. I am Byakuya Togami. And I can make it happen!  Kupiiii! This is so cool Ibuki’s going numb!!  Hoh hoh! I am in complete agreement! I...I don't care what you say... I'm going to do whatever I like... Of course. You may do as you please. But, always remember the words I just said. "I will not let anyone die". This is the duty I charged myself with.  ...Keh! ............I...I think he's pacified... somehow. But... even though he's a "Super High-school Level Gangster", he couldn't really have meant what he said... could he?  Re: Mr. Monobear's Lesson Um... Uwaaa!! You bastards seemed to be in the middle of something... and I couldn't find a good moment to show myself... So I finally decided to appear in the middle of things! ............  Hey, what's with the outfit? Ah, didn't I say so in the announcement? This outfit is for today's recreation time.  You don't mean... Yes! A manzai show fit for a tropical island! Manzai is a famous Japanese two-man comedy act, heavily associated with Osaka and its dialect. Much like other double-act comedy from around the world, one of the comedians plays the straight man (the tsukommi), and the other the funny man (the boke), playing off each other - with jokes often ending with the tsukkomi smacking the boke on the head for saying something stupid. Although the premise itself is most certainly not a novel idea for a comedy act, the execution, timing and the jokes themselves are often incomprehensible and befuddling to foreign audiences.  W...What does Manzai have to do with tropical islands?!  But, do you not need more than one person to perform manzai? Of course you do. This is why I have a partner all prepared.  Howawa! What's going on?  Ah. I thought it would be something like that. We've dallied enough! It's time for the "Monobear Big Laugh Manzai Live Show"! Eh? This is the first I'm hearing of this! I'm going to get smacked, aren't I?!  ...Gimme a break. As indicated in the upper left corner, you can push the triangle button for some canned laughter, should you require that extra authenticity. Miss Monomi's Practice Lesson  Good evening! I'm Monobear! Um... And I'm Monomi... Together, we're "The Monobearz"! Well then, let's get things moving. I will now exhibit my special mind reading technique! Eh? You have one?! Let's try it out! I'm going to guess your favorite food. Let's see... Your favorite food is... You can do it! Here's a hint: I'm a wabbit! Ca... Go on! ...davers! What? I do not eat dead people! It's your turn now, Monomi! Let's hear your best killer joke! W...What are you talking about?! I...I’m no killer! Oh, you'll be fine. It’s easy! You just have to know the secret to appeasing the God of Comedy. ...Speaking of, which do you think is better: draining your blood while you're still alive, or waiting until after you die? Why such a cruel question?! The God of Comedy, Miracle Rorion, will grant you the lifeblood of comedy... in return for a large amount of your blood! That’s howwible! Why does the God of Comedy want blood?! Pretty please! I will not be wooed by your sweet talk! I won't let you have even a dwop of my blood! Monomi gets angry very quickly, doesn't she...? You bastards should be careful too. Monomi is dangerous when she’s angry. ...She's like the tutorial boss in the first dungeon! That's not menacing at all! Well, OK... but she’s definitely a bad girl. You see, just between you and me... Music fades out That Monomi... selfishly stole you bastards’ memories! What t'heck! ...I mean... huh?
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Feb 2, 2013 17:08
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Is that a speculation tsunami I see in the horizon? Best get out of the way before we're all crushed. The big man keeps planting death flags like he was playing Minesweeper.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:17
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Well that sure was a twist.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:18
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So, was Monobear supposed to be the straight man or the funny man in that routine?  I'm kind of surprised they're dropping the memory loss twist on us so soon, without the build-up the first game had. Then again, they kept kicking that particular can up until the end of the first game, when most of us had figured it out by halfway through. The surprising part is that Monobear is blaming it on Monomi. I wonder where he's going with this...
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Feb 2, 2013 17:31
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I do not mean to simply discredit that way of thinking. There was a time I thought the same way, after all... Now THAT is interesting. And they're revealing the amnesia thing right away, too, which is good.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:36
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...I won't hesitate to kill any of you. In hindsight, this was such an obvious development I just kinda feel dumb I didn't see it coming. I do not mean to simply discredit that way of thinking. There was a time I thought the same way, after all...Forget the memory stuff, this is the most interesting sentence in the update for me.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:37
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Wyvernil posted:The surprising part is that Monobear is blaming it on Monomi. I wonder where he's going with this... Really, I didn't find that suprising, given his personality. The change in Monomi's speech, however, is much more suspicious. What is that controller up to, and who are they anyway, to say "t'heck" instead of "the hell"?
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Feb 2, 2013 17:37
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Yeah, okay, she stole them because the world ended and she wanted to foster hope on tropical islands without the reminder of the world ending. Okay. Aaagh why won't the story go faster
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Feb 2, 2013 17:39
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So Kuzuryu speaks up at last, and puts up the same attitude that Togami did in the first game, and even more interestingly Togami remarks he USED to think like that as well...
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Feb 2, 2013 17:39
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Wyvernil posted:So, was Monobear supposed to be the straight man or the funny man in that routine? Well Monomi did show up first. Monobear dropped in and crashed the party later on. So - assuming that they weren't been in cahoots before then - it had to be Monomi who did the mindwiping.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:39
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Every game needs a canned laughter button.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:41
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Togami is getting some major respect points. I'll be sad when the apparently increasing chance of his death happens, and I didn't really care for him in DR1.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:41
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That's... a pretty bad motive for killing, if you ask me. I can't imagine anyone wanting his memories back so badly, especially since, well, they won't remember why it's so important to them. Blaming Monomi is a weird move, too, since she hardly has any power left, and undermining her position even further seems redundant. Now that we've seen a sharp-dressed Monobear, I can share this archive I've been working on for months before the LP was up and running. Don't worry, no spoilers here, it's all official artwork from the website. It's just that you can only get it from the online version of MonoMonoMachine, which is random, and it might take you a lot of time to get them all. But now, you can get character artwork wallpapers, 8-bit portrait avatars, and all the other stuff with no effort at all! http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?d8dl1sfby8rhewg
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Feb 2, 2013 17:45
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Yeah this cliffhanger did give more proof to the "Monomi and Monobear aren't working together" side.....of course they could just be playing around still, but I dunno we shall see. And stop Togami I'm liking you so much right now, you can't die!
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Feb 2, 2013 17:47
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I don't know why but Monobear is a suit just made me laugh so hard.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:52
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So, memory thief is the result? Hmmmm Also, I think we are going too deep into Togami's statement, he could be refering to some other event in the past rather than DR1's events. There's no clarification about the situation at all. In anycase, seems that the motive of murder, this time, would be memories. I wonder if they will go again with the DR1 scenario about intimate information.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:52
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I'm glad Togami is a cooler guy in this game. The stuff he said almost made it seem like he knows what's about to happen, and is just taking control earlier to avoid what happened last time. But, I still think that he isn't the same Togami from DR1, but after that twist about Monomi being the memory thief, and since this IS Dangan Ronpa, I wouldn't be surprised either way if he is or isn't the same Togami.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:56
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SingerOfW posted:That's... a pretty bad motive for killing, if you ask me. I can't imagine anyone wanting his memories back so badly, especially since, well, they won't remember why it's so important to them. Blaming Monomi is a weird move, too, since she hardly has any power left, and undermining her position even further seems redundant. Also just the fact that Monobear really doesn't have real reason to lie mades me think he is telling the truth. Also she was the one that brought the students to the islands it seems so it makes sense she also took her memories, if indeed she isn't connected to Monobear.
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Feb 2, 2013 17:59
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Wyvernil posted:So, was Monobear supposed to be the straight man or the funny man in that routine?
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Feb 2, 2013 18:01
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RefinedUndefined posted:Really, I didn't find that suprising, given his personality. The change in Monomi's speech, however, is much more suspicious. What is that controller up to, and who are they anyway, to say "t'heck" instead of "the hell"? If I recall correctly, "the heck?" is a standard boke/tsukkomi line. So it's likely Monomi was still going along with the routine before she realized what Monobear said.
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Feb 2, 2013 18:08
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RefinedUndefined posted:Really, I didn't find that suprising, given his personality. The change in Monomi's speech, however, is much more suspicious. What is that controller up to, and who are they anyway, to say "t'heck" instead of "the hell"? I think the "What t'heck!" is part of a canned punchline thing. She got caught up in the routine 'till she realized he has said something important edit: welp, beaten one post up
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Feb 2, 2013 18:11
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I usually don't get manzai routines at all, but I liked this one. I guess it could be because I was just reading it so the timing was whatever made sense to my brain. Was this part particularly difficult to translate, or did the jokes hold up fairly well?
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Feb 2, 2013 18:15
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Yes -- "what t'heck?" has become the standard way of translating "nan de yo nen?" - the most cliche of cliched Manzai lines, often delivered together with the head slap. It appears in enough Japanese media that I figured people who knew it would recognize it for what it is, and people who didn't wouldn't miss much. Speaking of Manzai - it appears in one other game that got popular recently: the comedy bit around the mid-game of Ni no Kuni is a classic-style Manzai act. Much more classic than the one that appears here. I'm not sure how it was localized, but in Japanese it's performed by a real-life Manzai duo, in a very thick Osakan accent.
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Feb 2, 2013 18:16
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You know, seeing Monobear in that suit reminds me of another currently running LP...
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Feb 2, 2013 18:21
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 16:17 |
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There isn't really too much to speculate this time, since we've been generally just given straight up answers to some things. Togami's statement regarding how he used to be has probably cemented the idea that he's DR1's Togami in everyone's minds at this point. Memory loss being a key plot element was obvious; although, I'll admit it's mildly surprising that it was all Monomi (even though it makes perfect sense all the same). I wonder what they're going to do with that reveal though. Hopefully it's not too long until the next update. orenronen posted:Yes -- "what t'heck?" has become the standard way of translating "nan de yo nen?" - the most cliche of cliched Manzai lines, often delivered together with the head slap. It appears in enough Japanese media that I figured people who knew it would recognize it for what it is, and people who didn't wouldn't miss much. I wouldn't have even thought much about it had it been "What the heck?" It's amazing how much the dialect really helps.
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Feb 2, 2013 18:24
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