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Penakoto posted:If DR2 Togami isn't who he says he is, I'm wondering when and why it'll matter, he's weeks dead at this point and didn't really have the chance to do much in this game before his murder happened. Honestly, its probably something that would only have come up in his Free Time events.
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Jan 22, 2014 06:00
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orenronen posted:Why? There are people actually making interesting comments about the world DR presents. Are serious discussions of fictional worlds inherently bad? I'm looking forward to how the game turns out as a commentary on Japan's education system. I'm not banking on it being super amazing DR seems a bit too goofy for that but I've been surprised by other games/anime before so we'll see.
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Jan 22, 2014 06:19
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SirKibbles posted:I'm looking forward to how the game turns out as a commentary on Japan's education system. I'm not banking on it being super amazing DR seems a bit too goofy for that but I've been surprised by other games/anime before so we'll see. It already kinda showed it with the "SHSL" thing as a concept along with the prep school.
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Jan 22, 2014 07:26
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The whole "once you get into the school, you're set for life" thing already reflects how Japanese high school students work their butts off to get into the most prestigious universities, after which they're pretty much going to be guaranteed positions in the best companies. Even if you slack off for the four years you're in uni, or in DR's case, just got in via luck.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:29
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Of course Togami's privileged and got where he was because of his inheritance, no one can say otherwise. Prime example of Dr. Buttass's point:orenronen posted:
So no, Togami could not have been the day trade darling that he was without the advantages he had because of his birth and who he was. But though Togami could not have gotten into Hope's Peak without his inheritance of money/influence, he in no way bought his spot or is less worthy than other students. I think the title SHSL Heir is in fact incredibly fitting, as opposed to SHSL Day-trader/Business Man/1-Percenter/Rich Person. Togami's talent is not merely having money, nor is it managing it. His talent is being worthy of wearing the crown he was given. Merely wearing a crown does not make a king, but one can not be the king without the crown. In short, Togami's inheritance did not determine the person he would be, but neither could he have been that person without it. It's a paradox of privilege and achievement, but that's something a lot of the SHSLs--and a lot of real-life successful people--have in common. Keep in mind the selection for SHSL titles. I don't know if it's been/will be discussed in DR0, but as far I know we can assume that Hope's Peak doesn't care about how much work a student did or about the student's background. They only care about results. Take Leon, who said that he rarely went to practice and didn't care about the game, but nonetheless won a spot at the school because of his outrageous talent. Hope's Peak, like the real world, is not fair. While someone like Asahina may work their rear end off to get to the top, some people won't need to work nearly as hard to receive recognition and success. See born/achieve/have thrust upon re:greatness. As Hope's Peak sees it, Togami's talent is just as valid as, say, Maizono's, because they both reached greatness, regardless of how they got there. You can argue about the meaning of success in regards to privilege all you want, but Hope's Peak is not in the business of recognizing bootstrap-pulling, it's in the business of recognizing outstanding people. And Togami--young billionaire, financial genius, best heir--is outstanding.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:46
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Can high school students even participate in the stock market?
My name is Byakuya Togami.
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Flocci posted:Togami's talent is not merely having money, nor is it managing it. His talent is being worthy of wearing the crown he was given. Merely wearing a crown does not make a king, but one can not be the king without the crown. This is actually a really good analogy. It's like the difference between Marcus Aurelius and Nero. They were both emperors of Rome, but Nero was loving awful, while Aurelius was amazing. Same title, different levels of competence. It's the same with Togami. Strip Togami of everything he acquired himself, and give another heir a level playing field as him. Togami would still get into Hope's Peak because of how talented and worthy he is of using the tools he was given.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:56
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So, by that logic, does that mean that Kuzuryuu is a SHSL Gangster because of some kind of similar merits to his character that we haven't seen yet?
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Jan 22, 2014 14:50
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:So, by that logic, does that mean that Kuzuryuu is a SHSL Gangster because of some kind of similar merits to his character that we haven't seen yet? Presumably, yeah. So far he's just kind of a SHSL JRPG protagonist. The only reason him being a yakuza has come into play at all so far is that it allows Peko's backstory. e: specifically he's SHSL Neku from The World Ends With You
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Jan 22, 2014 15:01
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Captain Oblivious posted:There's plenty of reason to doubt Togami's perception that his little self imposed restrictions while amassing his own stock market fortune actually meant anything compared to his pre-existing knowledge? Hell, why would we believe that? Seriously, I've already covered this. So basically, at this point you're arguing that we should assume that the game is lying to us because you don't like/disagree with the implications of what it would be saying if it were telling the truth.
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Jan 22, 2014 16:37
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I spent the better part of last week catching up on this awesome series and decided to make monobear nails, with blood splatters on the pinkies 
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Jan 22, 2014 17:24
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After checking Junko's sprites, I'm a bit surprised that she didn't style her nails that way, too. Then again, the rest of her outfit was already Monobear themed, so there you go.
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Jan 22, 2014 17:27
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At some point you can't really separate a person's skills from their background. Yes, Togami was born into an rich family with a particular set of values, and that affected both his opportunities (like being a day trader in high school), and just what skills he learned in general. The thing is, though, the same applies to just about everyone: would Sakura have achieved the same level of martial arts prowess if she hadn't grown up in a dojo? What if Peko hadn't been raised from childhood to be a sword-wielding bodyguard? Hanamura's family was already in the restaurant business, Kirigiri comes from a long line of detectives, etc. etc. Komaeda is just supernaturally lucky, through no action on his part! It doesn't matter why they're crazy good at what they do, just that they *are*. Also, when DR3 comes out I really want the protagonist to have an actual skill. It might make them not enough of a blank slate, but I think it'd be an interesting perspective.
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Jan 22, 2014 18:13
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The Lord of Hats posted:Also, when DR3 comes out I really want the protagonist to have an actual skill. It might make them not enough of a blank slate, but I think it'd be an interesting perspective. SHSL Jack of All Trades, Master of None  I think that what made DR1 Togami a SHSL Heir was that he actively sought to gain more money, instead of just letting it gain interest in a bank. Give him any amount of money, he makes it grow. Have no money? He'll just get some and make it grow insanely, again. He may have better tools, but his skill is second to none.
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Jan 22, 2014 18:57
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Anatharon posted:Wouldn't want to be some kind of nerd, now. To be less snippy about this, the phenomenon of internet nerds - who, almost universally, are pretty privileged in the grand scheme of things - trying to talk about social privilege is well known and always terrible. I would be absolutely stunned if more than 1 or 2 people writing paragraphs on the subject has ever experienced one of the main 3 consequences of true poverty - homelessness, clincal hunger, or preventable plague. Even if you include people who make social work their life's study and work in this number i'd be amazed if 5 of the last 50 posts were made by such people. What instead comes through is a cavalcade of patronizing and embarassingly terrible half-cocked theories about the nature and evolution of wealth and poverty. Half of the borderline insulting theories in this thread could be dismantled with a couple of easily verifiable statistics such as corporate life cycle statistics, wealth expansion by percentile, etc, but there would be no point in doing so - the act of doing this is almost always interpreted as a challenge instead of a correction, no matter how nicely it's phrased. The insultingly wrong theory will come back using some sort of edge case disguised as a counterexample or some other dishonest argument as support. The reason for this is because nobody in these arguments truly cares about being correct. They care about being seen as right. If you want to talk about how prosperity evolves, how wealth spreads, and how social classes stratify, there are dozens of current and highly respected specialists you can cite and build from. But with my scanning and ctrl-f'ing of these posts, it appears that not a single one has been brought up. Even with relation to how art models life, you can't talk about how that modelling is accurate or inaccurate if you don't care about the model being correct in the first place.
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Jan 22, 2014 19:00
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The Lord of Hats posted:Also, when DR3 comes out I really want the protagonist to have an actual skill. It might make them not enough of a blank slate, but I think it'd be an interesting perspective. SHSL Motivational Speaker.
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Jan 22, 2014 19:00
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Dr. Buttass posted:He exhibited exactly none of those things, the plot of the game was a place where he should have excelled and he blew it. For all that he contributed he might as well have been spending the investigation periods with his thumb up his rear end. That says to me that he, specifically, doesn't have any skills that he can utilize without the unusual resources afforded him by his family connections. That he, specifically, is nothing without his tools. Someone with an actual talent (like, say, Leon) can still do good work with subpar tools (see also: pretty much every last piece of evidence in Leon's trial). Someone who is a little bit useless at what they do can't even do exceptional work with the best tools available. I feel this is less a reflection on Togami's skills and more of how the first game was. Unlike DR 2, none of the other characters were very proactive. Several of them didn't even really show their talents.
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Jan 22, 2014 19:10
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Heliotrope posted:I feel this is less a reflection on Togami's skills and more of how the first game was. Unlike DR 2, none of the other characters were very proactive. Several of them didn't even really show their talents. Given Hakagure survived, I wonder if he went along with the shelter plan since he knew he'd make it before going in. Unimportant detail, but his real crystal ball (and not the glass one Leon used to hit the incinerator) was in the locker Naegi opened, I wonder if with the proper tools his predictions wouldn't have been so random or hokey and was given a fake to cloud his skill.
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Jan 22, 2014 19:16
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Kal-L posted:SHSL Jack of All Trades, Master of None That'd be an honestly pretty awesome talent. Sure, he wouldn't be SHSL talented at any one thing, but he'd be merely skilled at literally everything. And how many times in this series could someone who was reasonably good at first aid or forensic science come in handy? Not to mention trauma counseling and conflict management.
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Jan 22, 2014 19:27
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 Sigh... Morning already... But... something's wrong... My body feels heavy. No, not just heavy... There's something soft and... warm... Almost like...!!   Re: Junk Food for a Dashing Youth  I...I can't breathe!! Hyafun...! I...I told you to stop it... It tickles...! Gack... Tsumiki again...?! G...Get off me... I...I...I can't breathe......! ............ Zzz... Finally, you're behaving... Zzz... Now I can sleep... peace... ful... ly... ...Huh?  HYAAAAAAA! Hinata-san, your cyanosis is back!!  Hawawa! You’re going all limp! S...Stay with me! ............ Music fades out Cough... cough...  Ah! Are you back, Hinata-san?! Re: Beautiful Morning Oh, thank god... I thought you died of suffocation... T...Tsumiki... What are you doing in my room...? And... what time is it? We haven’t even had the morning announcement yet...  Oh...? Now that you mention it... Hawawa! I came to wake you up, Hinata-san, but... I accidentally fell asleep!How the hell do you accidentally fall asleep...?!   But I have good news... Um, you see... Komaeda-san's condition finally improved. He's out of risk. R...Really?! So I came here to call you two, but Kuzuryuu-san's door was locked... Oh, right... Mine’s busted. I have Mioda to thank for that...  A...Anyway, you have to come with me to the hospital! We can help Komaeda-san now! Yeah... Got it. I got myself ready as quickly as I could, and returned to the hospital with Tsumiki. I still wasn't sure why Komaeda was even worth the trouble, though... ...Well, whatever.    Komaeda-san is in his room. We should go see him now.   Let's make the rounds first, as has become customary.  Monobear hasn't made his announcement yet, so I think Mioda-san is still asleep...  Oh, I’m sorry for speaking out of turn! And, well... I can’t actually be sure that she is, but... B...But... We shouldn't wake up the patients... So let's go check Komaeda-san's condition first. I guess she has a point.   Komaeda was out of bed, and standing in the middle of the room when we entered.  Komaeda-san! Can you hear me? Hinata-san came to visit you! ............ The Mioda twins are singing a canon... I see... I understand now... There are two of them...  ...T...They're the... The Olsen Twins! ...Are you sure he's better? I...It's not like he's completely cured. He's just no longer in danger of dying... How could I have missed it...? Every time we saw her, it was a different one... And that means... there’s a 17th student! It was them all along! The Olsen Twins...! That's the answer!I liked him better when he couldn’t speak.  Thank god... I'm so relieved now that Komaeda-san is back with us. Waaaaah! This is such a relief...!  Oh, my. I've gotten all dizzy. I'm not sure why, but... my head's spinning. You'd better get some sleep... I don't think you've rested at all the last couple of days. You must be dead tired. Well, if you insist... I think I'll go sleep for a while in the rest ward upstairs... You must be a nervous wreck yourself, Hinata-san. Perhaps you should relax in the lobby? Yeah... I think I will. So... good night! ...No... wait, it’s still morning... um... Tsumiki tottered unsteadily out of the room. She really does seem tired... I guess that’s why she fell asleep in the middle of coming to call me...  I’m all alone with Hinata-kun... Spending time with you is just... sheer torture. Don't worry, I'm going. Just get back in bed and try to shake that fever off. Yeah, go away. I don't want to see your face anymore. I get the message. It's almost time for Monobear's morning announcement. I think I'll just go wait in the lobby until it comes on...  Huh...? The light on the monitor is blinking... But, that's strange... It's not time for our chat yet...  Well, if the light is blinking, it means someone's waiting on the other side, doesn't it? Why would anyone be calling this early...?What if it's some kind of emergency...? If it is, I can't just wait until Kuzuryuu gets here... Okay. I guess I'll take this call alone.I reached my hand and pushed the communication button.  Re: Despair-Syndrome ...Huh?W...What the hell... A wavering light illuminated a pitch black curtain. The scene had the atmosphere of a dark ceremony. Is that... candlelight?But, the most unsettling thing was the rope hanging down from the ceiling. The end of the rope was tied in a noose... And under it stood a stepladder. It almost seemed like... a gallows. W...What the hell...?What the hell’s going on over there? Music stopsThen, suddenly...  Re: Despair Syndrome ...!!A human figure slowly entered the scene. The moment it appeared... ...A terrible chill ran down my spine. The figure wore a hospital gown, and its head was covered by a bag... What...?!The gowned figure moved slowly onto the stage...  ...And started climbing the stepladder. Slowly... ponderously... one step at a time... until it reached the top. Then, it took the rope in its hand... You've got to be kidding...!!Then, the next instant... Music halts What the...?!The scene suddenly turned completely dark. Perhaps the candle blew off? H...Hey!No matter how much I shouted, there was no response from the other side. Ocean Breeze Dead End What the hell?! What's going on?!W...What did I just see...? No! There’s no time! I have to do something! I have to get to the music club, now! If I can get there in time...!I rushed out of the lobby, and started running toward the music club.  * ding dong ding dong *    Um, This is an announcement from Hope's Peak Academy's Field Trip Executive Committee... Good morning, you bastards! It’s another perfect tropical day! Let's enjoy it for all it’s worth!That was the morning announcement just now...! Which means... Kuzuryuu should be at the hospital soon... ...But I don't have time to wait for him! ...I have to go!    ...Please! Don't let me be too late!I let out a small prayer, and ran into the club. Music fades outOf course... I’d forgotten. Prayers mean nothing here.  ????? (Youtube via Polsy) 
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Jan 22, 2014 19:50
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Welp. That hair means it could only be one person. Sucks for you, Ibuki. Super High-School Level Nurse is lookin' pretty drat suspicious this chapter. If she isn't the murderer she's going to be the red herring. Edit: Also maybe I'm missing it but it looks like the person hanging themselves doesn't have the hair sticking out like the victim (It's Ibuki, come on, literally nobody else has hair like that) does. So it's probably not actual suicide. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 19:53
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Someone actually called the Mikan bed thing, didn't they. That's terrifying. EDIT: Welp if that's Ibuki, going by her Despair Fever, I just realized how the culprit probably did it It's just a matter of who and why.EDIT 2: Provided she actually hung herself, that is. Color Printer fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 19:56
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Uggghh why'd it have to be her. Couldn't it have been Saionji?  man...Edit: Wait it could just be a wig, couldn't it? Wigs are a thing that exist right? Haha god I'm just trying to keep some hope that it wasn't her. Apollove fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 19:59
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Well, poo poo. Good night, Mioda. Also, Mikan definitely looks suspicious, but those scenes where she was sleeping on top of Hinata have to be important somehow. I just can't for the life of me figure out where they might fit in to any possible murder schemes. ...Wait a sec. Is it just me, or can you not see any hair on the shot of the person climbing the ladder to presumably hang themselves?
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Jan 22, 2014 20:03
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Mioda Not surprising, but feels bad nevertheless.ImpAtom posted:Edit: Also maybe I'm missing it but it looks like the person hanging themselves doesn't have the hair sticking out like the victim (It's Ibuki, come on, literally nobody else has hair like that) does. Yep, and the spotlight is now on too. I figure it was a staged recording. edit: Also, there's a picture of Monomi on that bag. Whatever that means.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:03
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Ibuki nooooooooooooooo. Now that that's out of the way, interesting tid bit: anyone else notice that people infected with the Despair Fever get spiral pupils? [Insert Final Fantasy X joke here]
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Jan 22, 2014 20:04
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Spiritus Nox posted:Also, Mikan definitely looks suspicious, but those scenes where she was sleeping on top of Hinata have to be important somehow. I just can't for the life of me figure out where they might fit in to any possible murder schemes. Her being there caused Hinata to wake up early (prior to the announcement) and thus had him be in position to view the footage. So if the footage is faked in some way (which of course it is, this is a murder mystery), her being there and getting Hinata up at that point sets a concrete "time of death" that wouldn't exist otherwise.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:04
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ImpAtom posted:Her being there caused Hinata to wake up early (prior to the announcement) and thus had him be in position to view the footage. Wait...poo poo. Goddammit. It's totally Mikan. She was weird but I liked Mikan, dammit. ...Although, if we're meant to notice that the person climbing the ladder doesn't have long hair, then it would seem that Mikan either had an accomplice or it wasn't her - her hair wouldn't exactly fit under that bag either. Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 20:06
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Spiritus Nox posted:Is it just me, or can you not see any hair on the shot of the person climbing the ladder to presumably hang themselves? It's probably just from the angle that we can't see it.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:06
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tiistai posted:edit: Also, there's a picture of Monomi on that bag. Whatever that means. I feel like we've seen that bag somewhere before.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:09
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Weird that the game would tell us the culprit straight-up. Welp, time to dig up some dirt on the Olsen twins. Be on the lookout for any mysterious white powder.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:10
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Spiritus Nox posted:...Although, if we're meant to notice that the person climbing the ladder doesn't have long hair, then it would seem that Mikan either had an accomplice or it wasn't her - her hair wouldn't exactly fit under that bag either. That's true. On the other hand she's been spending a lot of time with Nagito, who is wearing a similar kind of outfit, has short hair, and all we really have to go off of him still having Despair Fever is the way he's acting (and I guess the spiral pupils). And he's the dude who has said he'd willingly help anyone out. So if there is an accomplice in this situation... It seems pretty convoluted though especially when, if it is faked, she could just use herself.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:13
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Are we totally sure that's hair and not a shadow? 'Cause I could see Owari hanging herself. ... but I doubt they would do a suicide twice, so who knows. I can't see Monomi on the bag. EDIT: Wait, poo poo, just saw the video. The nails are painted, that's Mioda. Dang girl, I loved you, but I knew you were murder bait.
Bean fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 20:15
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ImpAtom posted:It seems pretty convoluted though especially when, if it is faked, she could just use herself. Celes' dumb plan back in DR1 was super convoluted, it's not like convoluted plans are new or something.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:16
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You'd probably need someone to operate the camera, though, because it does not show anything of being turned on or off by the person on screen.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:16
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Bean posted:Are we totally sure that's hair and not a shadow? 'Cause I could see Owari hanging herself. ... but I doubt they would do a suicide twice, so who knows. If you watch the video it is super-clearly hair. Apollove posted:Celes' dumb plan back in DR1 was super convoluted, it's not like convoluted plans are new or something. Very true.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:17
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Bean posted:I can't see Monomi on the bag. The video has a closeup. You should probably check it out.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:17
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Apollove posted:Celes' dumb plan back in DR1 was super convoluted, it's not like convoluted plans are new or something. This might be moreso, though. Especially considering that, if Nagito's really helping Tsumiki out here, there's not a ton of reason to believe he wouldn't just hang himself if she asked. He's volunteered to be the victim before, right?
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Jan 22, 2014 20:19
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Ok so I have an idea on who it /might/ be, but I'm really basing all this on absolutely nothing but a hunch, so I think I'm just gonna wait until we have more information before I say my guess. Edit: I will say this though, at the moment I don't think its Tsumiki.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:19
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Man, I was thinking that with her condition it would be incredibly easy for the murderer to tell her to go stab herself, for example, but I see they went for good old-fashioned suicide by hanging instead.ImpAtom posted:Her being there caused Hinata to wake up early (prior to the announcement) and thus had him be in position to view the footage. So if the footage is faked in some way (which of course it is, this is a murder mystery), her being there and getting Hinata up at that point sets a concrete "time of death" that wouldn't exist otherwise. Note that the video cuts off right before the hooded figure reaches the top of the ladder. Obviously meant to mislead Hinata into thinking that it's Ibuki. Who was probably dead long before that.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:20
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About time. I think the biggest question is why televise it like that? If you wanted to get away as cleanly as possible, just tell her to go hang herself/jump off a cliff in the remotest part of the island. As far away from clues as possible. Also the one service person at a time in the hospital rule will be the crux here.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:24
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