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Blasmeister posted:I think it's not so much wallpapering over them, as taking a large sheet of wallpaper and taping it to itself making a cylinder larger than the original pillar, so there'd be a gap between the paper and the original pillar. That's a fair point, but also still DEEPLY STUPID.
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Feb 1, 2014 04:43
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zetsubous posted:That's a fair point, but also still DEEPLY STUPID. I don't think it's stupid at all, and would probably be pretty shocking if we didn't have the time to scrutinize every frame.
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Feb 1, 2014 04:46
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zetsubous posted:That's a fair point, but also still DEEPLY STUPID. No stupider than Peko's amazing ninja trick to spring herself up and out the window of the beach house.
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Feb 1, 2014 04:53
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TKMobile posted:Souda was not alone when he sends a video to the Hospital. Last time, nearly everyone but Saionji (including Monomi of all things/people) were there as well. Well, the real trouble is that we don't know the full limits of those drat communicators. The only reason I didn't immediately rule out Gundam and Nanami is because of the possibility of all this being pre-recorded. At this point, everyone's decided to go the Bill O' Reily route and say "gently caress it, we'll do it live!". Let's go ahead and assume it's live. You're 100% right, Nanami and Gundam are off the table. So is Mikan. Unless you'd like to explain where the hell she got that communicator? Only 2 exist, Hinata used one and ran full speed and found the other one broken. I agree with all the other disqualifications too. Owari was sick. Even if she lied, she wasn't there for the communicator Q&A. Komaeda's in the same boat, except worse. Kuzuryuu is still hurting (plus, if he wanted to win, he could have last chapter). It's Souda or Sonia. My money is on Souda so far, since Sonia hardly showed up this chapter, and I get the sneaking feeling Souda's tech skills are going to play into this one.
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Feb 1, 2014 04:57
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:You can see how tall that column is in the comparison screenshots. There's no way that putting it up was quick. Yeah, you're probably right. Unless the wallpaper came in a tube the size of the pillar, that's really not a rush job... I still stand by the heat melting the adhesive keeping the thing up, but I admit that it could only really make sense if Saionji died WAY earlier Mioda. drat, Saionji killing Mioda sounded so convincing...
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Feb 1, 2014 05:08
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Random_Username posted:It's Souda or Sonia. My money is on Souda so far, since Sonia hardly showed up this chapter, and I get the sneaking feeling Souda's tech skills are going to play into this one. Mikan could still have done it. Back when Ibuki's body was first shown, someone pointed out all the poo poo in the 'closet' of the Music Club and that the floor of the upstairs storage room of the hospital has the same floor pattern as shown in the video. If she took the camera from the music club (before getting Hinata in the morning, but after having set up a fake club scene upstairs,) she has the time to set up a live feed of the fake suicide Hinata can watch. Remember, she seemed insistent about not disturbing Ibuki, who was prior all super restless. The suicide stream/video occurs. Then she follows Hinata to the actual club where both bodies are,* taking the camera with her. She destroys the camera intentionally or accidentally, but really only spends enough time there to tear down the fake pillar and lock the doors before hightailing it after Hinata. She arrived after he did, and I can believe she *just barely* had enough time to do all of this, and her clumsiness accounts for why poo poo's broken, the heat's still on, etc. With Souda and/or Sonia, some of this is a little trickier to figure out. We can all agree that Ibuki was the original murder target, right? There's too much effort in faking her suicide going on. But if she was Souda/SoudaNSonia's target, Saionji doesn't *as* easily figure into any of it. There's no reason to kill her if you're already got a "Kill-Ibuki" plan off to a good start. If she was legitimately trying to stay the hell away from everyone; she wouldn't have wandered out of her room to discover what Souda was up to, and therefore she wasn't killed as an innocent passerby. So we can assume she, and not anybody else, was originally trying to kill Ibuki. Saionji's responsible for most of the quarantine situation. Ibuki's the easiest to lure away-- Akane's making too much noise crying a river and could still freak out too much, and Nagito is being watched too closely by Mikan. The problem is, if this is the case, Mikan's the one who has more impetus to discover Ibuki wandering off, and reacting with murder. Not much since she's exhausted, but it still seems more likely that before the third morning she finds Saionji's murder plans going off than Souda or Sonia wandering out of the motel in the middle of the night and discovering the littlest murderer up to no good. But if Souda and/or his crush did this, how did they know to find Saionji? It's somewhat hard to imagine that their next thought after "Holy poo poo, Ibuki's been killed!" was "Quick, let's Kill the Killer!" *(The one problem with this is that it appears Saionji herself may have been the bag-girl in the video, but she had to have been in the club all along during the first discovery--the pillar size and the timing of Hinata running off can't account for any other scenario.)
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Feb 1, 2014 05:27
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orenronen posted:
Just noticed this, but if the monitors for the cameras were switched around, doesn't that mean that the destroyed monitor in the music club should be the one that controls the camera in the hospital? I considered the possibility that they were switched back, but the one we found was destroyed before Hinata got to the scene and there wouldn't have been time for a switcheroo between Hinata seeing the 'suicide' scene and his reaching the scene, so the destroyed one definetely controls the camera in the hospital. So maybe the hospital camera captured something the killer doesn't want the others to see? LukanFox fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 09:35
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TKMobile posted:Mikan could still have done it. Back when Ibuki's body was first shown, someone pointed out all the poo poo in the 'closet' of the Music Club and that the floor of the upstairs storage room of the hospital has the same floor pattern as shown in the video. Huh. I'm having a hard time imagining all this, but I think you're right that it's possible. I mean, the time limit is short, but Mikan would know exactly where to run to, and she could pop in after Hinata leaves. Looking at the pictures of the piles on the floor, someone noticed the pile grew. If the pink part is the communicator, maybe the addition was the camera? No way anything in this case is based on clumsiness, though. We don't know what the heat is for, but it's not an accident. Neither is the broken comm equipment. When it comes down to it, if the recording is live then it's either staged elsewhere or done in the club. If the second stepladder ends up missing, then that'll be definitive proof that it was filmed elsewhere. I took a look, and you're right, the hospital floor matches up. If there's any proof right now that this was filmed outside the club, then it's 100% Mikan.
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Feb 1, 2014 14:16
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Spatula City posted:No stupider than Peko's amazing ninja trick to spring herself up and out the window of the beach house. See, I disagree: the sword jumping is based on a real-world thing and uses Peko's talent. It cheated the rules of the mystery game (in that it basically came out of left field to anyone not seriously up on ninja lore) but was grounded in a version of logic in the same way as Leon's magic pitch or the silly-rear end robot suit in game 1. It was cartoon reality. This, on the other hand, is just dumb and doesn't hold up to scrutiny even from a cartoon reality standpoint. Even accepting that the paper was wrapped to make a hollow pillar -- even with cartoon logic that would take an insanely long time to do convincingly from top to bottom, especially given that the killer re-stuck all the posters on, and what on earth could possibly be the point? There are a thousand other places in that club to hide a body, even in a way where it could be found if need be.
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Feb 1, 2014 14:46
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The point is to give the illusion that Saionji was killed second, by showing a scene that doesn't appear to have two bodies in it at first glance, which prompts the discoverer to run for help, and then having a second body appear by the time he gets back. I don't buy that Saionji MUST have been the person on the video because the robe looked oversized. It's not unreasonable for robes to come in multiple sizes. Look at Nidai. A Nidai-sized robe would look oversized on anyone else. TKMobile posted:If she took the camera from the music club (before getting Hinata in the morning, but after having set up a fake club scene upstairs,) she has the time to set up a live feed of the fake suicide Hinata can watch. Okay, a set upstairs I can buy, but it still leaves one question unanswered at this point: how (or who ) was it ensured that the live feed would cut off before the rope went around the neck of the faker?
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Feb 1, 2014 15:28
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:The point is to give the illusion that Saionji was killed second, by showing a scene that doesn't appear to have two bodies in it at first glance, which prompts the discoverer to run for help, and then having a second body appear by the time he gets back. I somewhat disagree. I think the point of the video was to give the false impression that Ibuki was killed right before Hinata arrived at the club. From the killer's standpoint, it would make more sense to make it appear Ibuki died second: A scenario could be posited that Ibuki killed Saionji and then herself. Easy-peasy, nobody to suspect, just convict Ibuki and call it a day, right? Making it look like Ibuki died first, sending the video, making Saionji's body appear after Hinata already saw Ibuki dead... all of this is pointlessly self-destructive, since that just makes it all too clear that someone else killed Saionji. Nobody currently capable of murder would take such a crazy gamble, aside from maybe Komaeda. But he was, presumably, sick. quote:I don't buy that Saionji MUST have been the person on the video because the robe looked oversized. It's not unreasonable for robes to come in multiple sizes. Look at Nidai. A Nidai-sized robe would look oversized on anyone else. Unless they also had a Nidai sized ladder I'm gonna cry foul on that. The person in the video is slightly shorter than/even with the stepladder they are climbing, and the ladders don't appear particularly tall. quote:Okay, a set upstairs I can buy, but it still leaves one question unanswered at this point: how (or who ) was it ensured that the live feed would cut off before the rope went around the neck of the faker? I suppose if it really were candle light, the candle might simply have been timed to run out at that point. The person in the video was being pretty slow and deliberate (though I assume that's mostly because they are trying to climb a ladder with a frigging bag over their head). If that's Mikan in the video, there can't have been anyone else present to turn out lights/candles or whatever, so it must have happened automatically. If it's not Mikan, then the whole case against her pretty much goes up in smoke, and we're back at suspecting Sonia or Souda (which is where I've gotten to after thinking things over). I think Sonia has been given far too little credit. She's the princess of a country that she's been (indirectly) told was destroyed during a period of her memories that was erased. After the last case made it clear that there was definitely a memory gap she's probably pretty frantic to get back to her homeland. For someone with an unhealthy interest in serial killers, and a lot of responsibility to bear, killing a few classmates for the sake of her entire country might be a necessary evil.
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Feb 1, 2014 16:57
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The heat in the room reminds me of real life cases where it can be used to alter the estimated time of death, but alas, Monobear doesn't give us a time of death or expect us to use actual forensic techniques.
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Feb 1, 2014 19:11
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Knicknevin posted:I somewhat disagree. I think the point of the video was to give the false impression that Ibuki was killed right before Hinata arrived at the club. Why hide Saionji's body and lock the door after he runs to get the others, then?
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Feb 1, 2014 20:02
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Narsham posted:Why hide Saionji's body and lock the door after he runs to get the others, then? I believe that's what Knicknevin is saying (and I agree): it would have made a lot more sense from the killer's standpoint if they had switched the order of the body reveal such that Ibuki was the second body found. That way it would look like Ibuki killed Saionji and then committed suicide. Right now I can't fathom what the point of doing it this way is or, again, why going to the ridiculous and crazily elaborate lengths of building a convincing fake pillar was called for. It throws the whole scenario into confusion, but not in a way that would be helpful to the murderer.
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Feb 1, 2014 21:08
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zetsubous posted:See, I disagree: the sword jumping is based on a real-world thing and uses Peko's talent. It cheated the rules of the mystery game (in that it basically came out of left field to anyone not seriously up on ninja lore) but was grounded in a version of logic in the same way as Leon's magic pitch or the silly-rear end robot suit in game 1. It was cartoon reality. The killer might have had all night to prepare this for all we know. There might be a very good reason we don't know yet for why they set things up that way. An obvious one is to hide the time of death. And if you think there were better places in the club to hide Saonji, don't just say there are, show me your evidence. I believe the killer wanted to establish wrong times of death for both Saonji and Ibuki, and went to elaborate lengths to make sure of that. Also, as a reminder, we can't rule out Nagito having assisted the murderer.
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Feb 1, 2014 21:27
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zetsubous posted:Right now I can't fathom what the point of doing it this way is or, again, why going to the ridiculous and crazily elaborate lengths of building a convincing fake pillar was called for. It throws the whole scenario into confusion, but not in a way that would be helpful to the murderer. That's why I think the murderer basically just walked into someone elses (that is, Saionji's) plot, killed her, and is now ad-libbing it. Both Ibuki and Saionji being killed by the same person is fairly pointless since Ibuki's death, plus the video, could have tricked everyone into thinking it was a suicide.
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Feb 1, 2014 21:35
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Knicknevin posted:That's why I think the murderer basically just walked into someone elses (that is, Saionji's) plot, killed her, and is now ad-libbing it. Both Ibuki and Saionji being killed by the same person is fairly pointless since Ibuki's death, plus the video, could have tricked everyone into thinking it was a suicide. The alternate can also be true though. The murderer has a solid alibi planned and then Saionji witnessed it and forced the murderer to improvise for an unexpected murder.
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Feb 1, 2014 21:35
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There's alao simply the possibility that the killer is not being a 100 percent rational actor. Something being unwise doesn't discredit it as an answer in and of itself.
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Feb 2, 2014 01:13
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The cover-ups and M.O.s for both murders are pretty elaborate, so I don't buy that either murder was spur of the moment. Saionji's cause of death was having her throat cut, and that convinces me that her murder had to be planned. If Saionji had just witnessed, or worse, committed a murder, she'd be on guard against letting someone else get close enough for them to be able to get a shot at her throat. There's also the problem that if either Saionji or her killer just stumbled onto the crime scene, that they, or the original murderer, must also have 'just happened' to bring a knife/blade (we don't actually know for certain yet what exactly the murder weapon was) 'just in case' someone caught them. Until someone can present a case for why a knife/blade found its way onto the scene without malicious intent, both deaths were pre-meditated murders. LukanFox fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 03:16
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I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet (I may have missed it though, sorry!), but I thought Kuzuryuu was acting kind of weird about some of the calls. First of all, he cuts Monomi off right when it seems like she's about to say too much about the island and implications of the virus. Then, he shoos us off to go check on the sick people and offers to take the final call before the murders are discovered himself. How do we know he really made that call? Seems suspicious that the night before the murders are discovered, we aren't able to view the music room and confirm that Souda visits there to call us. Here are the quotes in question:orenronen posted:
And here is where Kuzuryuu shoos us off to check on Komoeda, then later tells us about the call after we're done: orenronen posted:
SchrodingersFish fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 07:55
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That despair fever is one scawy disease... If we’re not vewy cautious, the entire island could...!
Yeah. No one had anything to report, so we got it done in no time.
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Meh, I wouldn't read too much into Kuzuryuu's behaviour at this point. It's already been established that Kuzuryuu hates Monomi, because he blames her for all the poo poo that's gone down. And the call was being made from the motel side, so someone had to take it at that time. Kuzuryuu just happened to be the one who stayed to answer it. What bothers me is when Saionji (or her corpse if she was killed inside her room) managed to get to the music club. I figure that it has to have been during the night or else someone would have noticed her leaving/being taken out of her room, but was it the night after the quarantine was declared or was it the night before the body discoveries? Building a timeline is an important part of the solution after all.
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Feb 2, 2014 09:35
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Also, regarding Kuzuryuu, it would be the mark of an arguably piss poor pattern in this sequel where every case accuses the next killer in line instead of the real one. First case: Peko suffers heavy accusations, then kills Mahiru next time. Second Case: Okay, we haven't proved anything yet, but Saionji was accused of killing Mahiru (and there's a chance she killed Ibuki here,) and there was a debate of semantics on whether or not Kuzuryuu was the real killer in context. This is meta-reasoning, but I really hope that this case breaks any notion of a pattern and the first two times were just coincidence. I mean, his behavior is still a little suspicious, but it could be written off as the narrative needing Hinata to see Nagito's further condition or a simpler red herring; last time Sonia and Nanami each had something suspicious about themselves before arriving at the diner but those leads never went anywhere during the case.
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Feb 2, 2014 13:18
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  Ikoroshia Every good murder investigation starts with a close look at the body. So let's zoom to the stage and do just that.  Mioda's body is lying on the stage... She’s still wearing that same hospital gown.  ...Hm? What's that on her slippers?I didn't notice it when she was hanging, but the soles of her slippers are dirty... Is that... blood?But... she doesn’t seem to be wounded. Which means... ...This is someone else's blood.  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Blood on Slippers   Hey, Hinata. Do you have a second? You found Mioda's body before you ran into us at the motel earlier, right? Yeah... Well, she had a bag over her head, so I didn’t know it was her at the time... But I could tell just by looking she was dead. There was a rope around her neck...  That means Mioda was already dead before Saionji was tied to the pillar...  That's good to know. I mean, the Monobear File doesn't say what the times of deaths are this time... If it wasn't for you, we wouldn't be able to tell which of them died first. He's right. The Monobear File doesn't say anything about when they died... But... it's easy to figure out when Mioda did. I mean... I saw it with my own eyes.  I saw her climbing that stepladder on the monitor. I'm sure that right after that... But... wait. If Mioda died after climbing the stepladder... Does that mean... it was suicide?No... that can't be right. I mean, Saionji was killed after that... If Mioda took her own life, how could that be? ............They can't be separate incidents. That would be too much of a coincidence.  We have a second body to investigate this time. Saionji's body is tied to a pillar on the side of the stage. There's packing tape wrapped around the entire pillar, keeping her in that pose. Who the hell could do something like this?!The Monobear File said her throat was slit... There's tape around her neck right now, so there isn't much blood around. Hmm... What’s up with her kimono, though...?It's all disheveled... and the obi is tied on the front, for some reason. Is that the culprit's doing?  More importantly, when was she even killed?  When I first found Mioda's body, Saionji's wasn't there at all... And that means... She must have been killed while I was at the motel getting help. But... that couldn't have taken more than 10 minutes. Is it even possible to kill someone and tie them to a pillar in such a short time? Even if it's possible... it's not something just anyone could do. ...Only the people who don’t have an alibi for that time.   Oh, Hinata-kun! Do you have a second?! ...No. Go away.  I don't mean to get in your way, but there's something I really want help with. ...What is it?  Take a look at Saionji-san's kimono. There's a strange bulge in the chest area. I think she might be hiding something under there... Wait. By "help", you mean you want me to reach under there and see what it is?  Sure. Would that be a problem?  I can see how it might be one if she were still alive, but she's dead now. It’s not a big deal. Are you for real?! Do you really think it's okay just because she's dead?! Fine, fine... If you won’t do it, I’ll find someone who will.  Hey, Owari-saaaaan!  ...What do you want? Um, I was wondering if you could help with something. I think there's something under Saionji-san's kimono. Can you reach under it and check?  Hm? I don't really get it, but if all you want me to do is search her, then sure.  Thank you! See how great it is when we all help each other? Hmmm... let's see...Owari reached her hand under Saionji's kimono, and then...   Dammit... she's tied up so tight I can't reach very far... ...Oh, wait.  I found something. Is that what you're looking for? Is that... a key? It doesn't look like one of our cottage keys. Oh, I see... it must be for her motel room.A key for her motel room...?   Well, if it was so deep in the kimono that Owari had trouble getting it out... ...It means it probably wasn’t put there by the culprit. If it was a trap, they’d have put it somewhere easier to reach, where we could spot it immediately.In other words, Saionji must have had this key on her from the very beginning.  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Motel Key  Oh, there's one more thing. Nothing to do with the key, of course, but... You seemed to be quite perplexed by the state of Saionji's body, Hinata-kun. Well... yeah. How could I not be?  There are quite a few mysteries regarding it, I agree.  Here, let me suggest one to you. The one I’m the most interested in is... ...The way this packing tape is wrapped. Doesn’t it seem to you like the culprit was trying to hide the wound on her neck? What do you mean?  I'm not sure what their intentions were... but it’s quite a relief for us, the investigators, isn’t it? The tape acts as a sort of bandage... so there’s very little blood around. Had they just left the body here after cutting her throat, there'd be a sea of blood all over the place.I guess that is a relief... Yeah... If there were two bodies and a sea of blood here, I'd have probably keeled over by now...   That's the rope that was tied to the lighting rig until a few moments ago. Mioda died from hanging herself with this rope. It seems like a perfectly normal rope. Nothing strange about it. And yet... there's a storage room in this club, but I don't think there was a rope in there. Which means... is it from the supermarket again? Did someone carry it from all the way over there? In other words, anyone could have gotten this rope. So I don’t think we’re going to get many hints from it. ...Are you sure about that? ...Huh? Because I did notice something. Wait, let me confirm my suspicions. Hey, Tsumiki-saaaan! Can you come here for a second?  U...Um... Do you need something? There's something I want to ask you. Mioda-san definitely died from being hanged using this rope. Is that correct?  Y...Yes... There aren't any other wounds, so it's unquestionable that she died by hanging. So Mioda-san definitely died from hanging. I see... That was obvious when we first found her, though. You weren't here so you may not know, but she was hanging on the rope when we found her. Yep, there's that too! Well, that’s all I needed to hear! Looks like we won't be able to get any clues from this rope after all. Let's go look somewhere else.As usual, I haven’t a clue what he’s up to.  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Rope   Mioda had this bag over her head when we found her... Why did she, though...? Wait... huh? Now that I'm looking at it up close, this bag has Monomi's head printed on it. I guess it’s not just any old bag...   A large candle is standing on the very front of the stage.  That dim lighting I saw on the monitor must have been from this candle. It's a very large candle. There's no doubt it could provide enough light, but... ...Why use a candle when there's so much regular lighting around...?  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Candle   A stepladder has collapsed on its side on the stage... It's the one I saw Mioda climb on the video monitor.   Hey... there's blood on it.  See? Right here on the left side of the ladder. There isn't much of it, though.  Mioda-san didn't have any wounds on her, did she? ...Maybe it's Saionji's blood?  Yeah. What else can it be?So Saionji's blood is on the left side of the stepladder... But... why? What does it mean?  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Stepladder   Next to the stage is the control panel for controlling the music club’s stage lights. Among other things, it can be used to lower and raise the lighting rig. We used it ourselves when we lowered Mioda's hanging body down to the stage... Now that I think about it, back when I saw the music club in the monitor...There was just some dim candlelight... None of the club's lights were used. But, why not? There must be some reason behind it, right?   You linger... perhaps you have noticed? Huh? Noticed what...? Hmph. Is it that you cannot see... or that you do not? Above us hang contraptions that light the stage... And with them something else, that casts no light, and yet may prove illuminating...I... kinda tuned most of that out, but... is there something on the lighting rig?  ...Oh... Do you mean that thing up there? It looks like... a black piece of paper?  Hmhmhm... Realization dawns at last. We can't really tell what it is from down here, though. Should we lower the rig again...?  Ha! What need have we of such tedium?! Come, Mirage Silver Falcon Jum-P! Now is your time to soar! Fuwahaha! Let the majesty of the Four Dark Gods of Destruction burn into your eyes! Before I even realized what was happening, one of the hamsters had left Tanaka’s hand and ran up to the lighting rig.  Squeak! Squeak! It immediately began circling the piece of paper with incredible speed. In no time at all, it had fallen down, straight into Tanaka's waiting hands.   Fuwahahaha! Behold, the power afforded the bearer of the Super High-school Level Jagan Eye!  Wow! That was incredible! Never in my life have I seen a hamster doing tricks before! ...They are the Four Dark Gods of Destruction. Hamsters are but a temporary form. So, what's with the paper?  Hmm. Impressively thick stock... And yet I sense no curse inscribed upon it... ...Hmph. A waste of time. ............No... He’s got that wrong. This is, undoubtedly, a clue... for something. I mean, I'm pretty sure this paper doesn’t belong on the rig. How it got up there could be important...  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Thick Piece of Paper   This is the control panel for the club's air conditioning system. Hm... I can probably control the temperature of this room using this... Okay, let's try this... ...It's set to 30 degrees!?No wonder it's so hot in here...! Anyway, let’s just turn this down... That should make it a bit more comfortable in here... Evidence Bullet Get posted:Air Conditioning Control   There's a black curtain hanging at the back of the stage, but... ...It isn't long enough. It doesn't reach from one end of the stage to the other.   ...That's a pretty shoddy length for a stage curtain, isn't it? It wasn't here before, right? If it was, it would be pretty strange that it doesn't fit. Maybe it's one of the curtains I saw in the supermarket? Yep. There's a temporary fastener adhesive label on the back of it. The supermarket curtains all have it. Did someone drag this curtain all the way from the supermarket? That must have been tough! If they did... it must had been absolutely necessary for the murder. ...Necessary? How? ...Who knows?Yeah... I didn't think we’d be able to just guess.  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Curtain on the Stage  No more things on the stage to look at, so let's see if Nanami has anything insightful to say without being prompted by something we look at.  ............Nanami stared at the stage floor with a thoughtful look on her face, her arms crossed. ...What are you looking at? Is there something on the floor? No, there's nothing on there... But there's a stain. ...A stain? It's hard to see, but it's right over there. Look veeeeeery carefully... Hey, you're right. It looks like someone tried to wipe something clean. Wait, that's not just any something... ...It's blood, isn't it?! Well, it's not like it's strange to find blood over here. Saionji-san had her throat cut just a few steps away...  No. The strange thing is why the culprit tried to hide it. ...Did they? Sure... Why wipe it clean if they didn't?Why would the culprit want to wipe blood off the floor? The body is right next to it, so it's not like they could hide the murder by cleaning the blood... So... what were they trying to hide?  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Wiped Blood  Time to zoom out of the stage and look at some other things in the club. The remains of a wrecked machine are scattered on the floor.   That was... the security camera set. I am sure of it. Hmph... The prized work of the mechanical one, destroyed in seconds... How pitiful.  Could this be the result of criminal psychology? ...What?  For example, should a culprit commit murder in front of a camera, even if they know it isn't on... ...Sometimes, even the thought of having been recorded is too much for them to bear. And so, they break the camera... Hm. The theory is... plausible, certainly.So... the culprit couldn’t handle the thought of possibly being caught on camera? And so they broke it? But if that’s true... what was it I saw?  Evidence Bullet Get posted:Camera Set    Hey, Hinata... Take a look at this. Hm? What is it? Right here on the floor in front of the door. That's... a drum stick, isn't it? It's broken, though... ...Why is it here?  It's right in front of the door, which means...  ...It's one hell of a clue, isn't it? ...What makes you think so? Remember what happened when we got to the music club?  If it won’t open, we’ll just have to break in! Hmmm... Can we? There are only four of us, and two are girls. This isn’t a question of can or can’t! We have to! Come on. On my count, ram it with your entire body! One... two... ...NOW!On Kuzuryuu’s signal, we charged the door with all our strength. * bang * When we tried to enter, the door was locked. Then, the four of us tried to force it open... But... on closer inspection, this door wasn't locked at all. It... wasn't? See? This door opens inward, and has handles shaped like this... If you stick a bar of some kind in them...  ...Get it? It would seem like the door was locked. It just won't open. So... this drum stick was used instead of a proper bar? It's right here, broken in front of the door. That's proof enough, isn't it? But... how did the culprit get away? ...What? I mean, there aren't any windows in the club. The only way out is this door. If they barred the door from the inside, they would be stuck in here. Hmm... How about this? The culprit must have still been in here when we broke into the club. Then, they took advantage of our confusion, and made it look as if they just came from outside... It's a fairly common trick. You see it in mystery movies all the time. ...And if that's how they did it, they must have left some kind of clue behind. Right! Let's find it! They won’t escape this time! Was the culprit still inside when we broke into the club? I guess it’s possible, but...   ...Hold it right there! Nanami... Did you just try to make a cool entrance? That drumstick is interesting, sure, but I found something else. ...You did? See? There's a strange lump where the two doors meet. Hey, you're right. What is this thing? It's a little too hard to be gum... Yeah, I don't think it is...Nanami crouched next to the door and picked up a piece of the translucent lump.   ...Nom. Did you seriously just put that in your mouth?! Hmmm... Crunch, crunch... Oh. It smells like a workshop. A... what? Then there's its texture... I see... It may be a lump now, but that doesn't mean it was one before... For example... it might have been liquid which solidified... Which means... it might even have been poured into the gap between the doors. W...What are you talking about? ............  Ptew! ...That tasted terrible. Nanami spat out the lump and walked away. I don't think its taste matters, but this lump must be some kind of a clue, right? Evidence Bullet Get posted:Translucent Lump There are plenty of other people to talk to and places to investigate, but we'll get to them next time.
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Feb 2, 2014 14:20
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And once again, the supermarket provides the equipment needed for murder. Why would the killer need a curtain from the supermarket and not one from the club? vvvvv While free stuff is a great deal, I don't think curtains are worth killing someone for. RefinedUndefined fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 14:37
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I see Nanami is taking over Ibuki's role of doing unusual and endearing things.RefinedUndefined posted:And once again, the supermarket provides the equipment needed for murder. Why would the killer need a curtain from the supermarket and not one from the club? Because the supermarket prices are to die for?
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Feb 2, 2014 14:37
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Perhaps the heater was used to melt the goop sicking the doors together. The drumstick thing makes sense. Too much sense. Why would the clue just be given away like that? The curtain lends credence to the “video was faked in another location” theory. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 14:44
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Interesting stuff already. - Saionji was definitely killed before Ibuki. I suppose that Ibuki had the bag over her head when she walked through the blood. - The killer was clever enough to use packing tape to cover the wound to make it confusing if Saionji died where she was found or somewhere else. - The key suggests that Saionji left her room of her own will. - Fake column is confirmed. - The drumstick could have been set by the killer to fall between the handles as they left. Leave by one door, sit the drumstick on the handle, leaning on the door you're leaving by so that when you pull the door shut, it falls to land on the handle. Locked room mystery partly solved (I don't know what the translucent lump is yet. Glue maybe to make it seal better?). It is possible that Saionji might have recorded the video, intending to kill someone and was killed first, but she definitely didn't kill Ibuki then die herself. I wonder what the heck the killer did with the wallpaper. There would be a lot of it, making it awkward to move. Hiding it in the club is risky, and it's not something they'd want to carry very far. The game is probably going to say they put it back on the roll in the storage room, but I seriously doubt that's something they could do in only ten minutes AND wipe up the blood AND rig the door AND still get away from the scene. So I'll be annoyed if they go "it's back on the roll, pristine and clean! Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 14:45
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RefinedUndefined posted:And once again, the supermarket provides the equipment needed for murder. Why would the killer need a curtain from the supermarket and not one from the club? If the duplicate scene theory is correct, they might have needed two identical curtains. They probably wouldn't have duplicate curtains in the club. It seems like the goop was used to stick the doors together, and the broken drumstick left to fool people into thinking that the murderer was inside when the door was forced open. That would seem to indicate that the murderer was one of the people involved in breaking in, since they'd be the ones above suspicion if the drumstick theory was accepted.
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Feb 2, 2014 14:49
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So Tsumiki 'confirmed' Ibuki died from hanging. Since she's a SHSL Nurse and isn't likely to make mistakes, either the case is going to be as clear cut as Ibuki really dying from hanging (which I doubt) or she's lying.
ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 15:00
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The fact that Komaeda suggested that the killer must have still been hiding in the room as they broke down the door makes me think that isn’t the case. Hinata would have to come up with a twist like that himself. The paper that the Dark Gods of Destruction fetch is clearly a remnant of the fake pillar extension. ApplesandOranges posted:So Tsumiki 'confirmed' Ibuki died from strangling. Since she's a SHSL Nurse and isn't likely to make mistakes, either the case is going to be as clear cut as Ibuki really dying from strangling (which I doubt it) or she's lying. Komaeda pushed her and she doesn’t take pressure well. It was a a hasty and fallacious conclusion.
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Feb 2, 2014 15:09
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I'm pretty sure it was Ibuki who killed Saionji, and then hung herself, by order of the culprit who took advantage of Ibuki's current state to "control her mind" (she was basically obeying everybody because of Despair Fever). The question is, if my theory is right, would Ibuki or the mind controller be considered the culprit?
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Feb 2, 2014 15:13
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Yeah, the drumstick was probably snapped beforehand and left on the floor to disguise the glue that was actually keeping the door shut, while giving alibis to people who were definitely outside the club to witness the door being broken down. Kuzuryuu is being awfully helpful at noticing the red herring clues, too. Maybe his reformation post-trial was all an act? 
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Feb 2, 2014 15:13
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So Nanami just chewed on a wad of dried glue? Shouldn't that be stupidly toxic? I can't imagine a door being super-glued locked for some reason. It's the only explanation but it feels kinda weird. Maybe I underestimate the power of adhesives. I thought the wiped blood looked more like a dried stain to indicate that one of the murders took place way earlier. Blasmeister posted:Kuzuryuu is being awfully helpful at noticing the red herring clues, too. Maybe his reformation post-trial was all an act? I think he's trying to be genuinely helpful while being awfully gullible. At the very least we know now that the Drumstick was planted and Ibuki died after Saoinji. I hate to say this but some things have been pointed out so obviously that I can't help but feel that they're wrong.
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Feb 2, 2014 15:45
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Maybe the killer killed Saionji just as Ibuki walked in, and the killer didn't think they could keep Ibuki quiet. (All Hinata would have to do during the trial would be to order her to say who the killer was.) Thus, they killed Ibuki. Or they got Saijioni first and just felt real murdery, so they tried to clean the blood off the floor and hide Saijioni behind the column. When they lured Ibuki in, everything seemed less suspicious? That one's a reach, but I can't think of another explanation for the blood cleaning.
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Feb 2, 2014 15:57
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ApplesandOranges posted:So Tsumiki 'confirmed' Ibuki died from hanging. Since she's a SHSL Nurse and isn't likely to make mistakes, either the case is going to be as clear cut as Ibuki really dying from hanging (which I doubt) or she's lying. Yeah, strikes me as Komaeda trying to trap her in her own words.
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Feb 2, 2014 16:00
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Mav-san posted:I'm pretty sure it was Ibuki who killed Saionji, and then hung herself, by order of the culprit who took advantage of Ibuki's current state to "control her mind" (she was basically obeying everybody because of Despair Fever). That would be a terrible can of worms to open, and kinda a repeat of Chapter 2. Ibuki did have some self-preservation instincts remaining, she is not a robot programmed to obey mindlessly. I can't see a killer as clever and well-prepared as this taking the chance that Ibuki might not obey the order. Platystemon posted:Komaeda pushed her and she doesn’t take pressure well. It was a a hasty and fallacious conclusion. Yeah. It might have been a trap Komeda set, but it's not one that Mikan couldn't back out of by going "S-sorry, I just got really flustered. I meant asphyxiation." Even if she lied to cover her tracks, it's not an ironclad trap. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 16:04
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I'm actually really disappointed we got the fake pillar so early. It's such a clever trick, and you'd never notice it since the game never flips back and forth between those two images directly, so you never see the difference. It's, again, a trick that really only works when we don't have a week of downtime between updates. This probably all happens in twenty minutes, tops, when playing normally. It probably made for a fantastic reveal mid-trial when you realize what's going on, and the game asks you to point out the difference between the two scenes...
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Feb 2, 2014 16:11
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:That would be a terrible can of worms to open, and kinda a repeat of Chapter 2. Ibuki did have some self-preservation instincts remaining, she is not a robot programmed to obey mindlessly. I can't see a killer as clever and well-prepared as this taking the chance that Ibuki might not obey the order. And I don't think it's a reboot of Chapter 2 either. What we got in Chapter 2 was someone acting on its own for the sake of other. In this theory, it's just someone taking advantage of another person to kill without dirtying its hands.
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Feb 2, 2014 16:31
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I think the method is fairly obvious, the timeline goes something like: - The culprit kills Saionji, ties her to the pillar and covers it up with black paper (which we'll probably find later). - The culprit fakes the hanging on camera in order to lure Hinata over. Presumably the culprit just ordered Ibuki to go up and put her neck in the noose, although if it's Tsumiki she could have acted it out herself. - The culprit kicks away the ladder (since Ibuki probably wouldn't agree to actually kill herself) and hides (probably behind the curtain) before Hinata gets there. - After Hinata leaves the culprit quickly tears the paper off and hides it somewhere. - The culprit then plants the broken drumstick, glues the door shut from the outside and goes off to meet Hinata so they can establish an alibi. They also turn the heat up high to obscure the evidence that the door was glued shut. The why or who isn't as clear, but I think it's probably Tsumiki or Kuzuryuu because they actually have alibis. e: IIRC both of those suspects were also in TSMM so that's a plus from a motive perspective. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 16:40
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Well the stepladder confirms that the footage we saw was a fake. We would have seen the blood on the stepladder the way it was facing in the video. Combined with the curtain that doesn't quite fit it seems to be a case of the stage being made to resemble the fake crime scene rather than trying to make a fake crime scene that resembles the fake. And it seems like the heat was used to solidify the gum and create the illusion of a "locked" door. I think this was to keep the illusion that Saionji was killed second and cast suspicion on the people from the hospital. After all, they were the ones out there wandering around looking for Mioda, while the people in the motel were presumably all in their rooms. Combined with the fake pillar, it seems that it creates the image that between Hinata seeing Ibuki and the rest coming back, someone, somehow, managed to tape Saionji to the pillar and disappeared from a locked room. Either the killer was timing this down to within 10 minutes, which is impressive but is starting to strain my suspension of disbelief or they had an incredibly precise plan that was initiated with the broadcast that Hinata saw.
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Feb 2, 2014 17:09
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