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I have decided to leave the vast cornfields of Canada and seek adventure around the world! My goal is to basically travel the world until I find somewhere that I love and want to stay. The problem is that I need to find work to sustain myself while I do this. I have checked out the other threads relevant to this, but they seem to be geared towards younger people who are doing this on a short term basis. I am looking for any and all suggestions on where I can find work that will pay a decent wage, and maybe a good starting destination for a newbie traveler in this respect. So basically, I'm not opposed to teaching English in Asia for a year, but ultimately I want to explore more options than that. My Situation MY GIRLFRIEND and I have both decided that this is the path we want to take. I'm 28 and she's 26, both living in Edmonton, Alberta. I have a BA and a JD, I have 6 months to go in my practicum then I get called to the Bar and become a full-fledged lawyer in Alberta. Obviously I'm going to see that through, but by the end of summer 2013 I'd like to be off starting my adventures. She has a BCom, is working as a foreign currency trader and is ok with waiting until the end of the summer to depart as well. She was also born in Austria and has an EU passport. We both have some student debt but no other financial encumbrances. Neither of us give any fucks about having kids or owning a big house, we would rather have the freedom to travel around and not have to settle down unless we really want to. What I'm Hoping to Find Any links, resources, etc on where to find sustainable jobs abroad. We have taken out some books (The Big Guide to Living and Working Overseas, Work Your Way Around the World , as well as some other country-specific, similar books) but I just want to find as much information as possible, as well as some experiences from people who have done the same thing. The links I have found in other threads have been more geared towards people around 20 years old, but we are a bit more established in terms of education and work experience, and need to make a bit more money because of the student debt. Ideally I'd love to find work in international development. I am applying for an internship through the Canadian Bar Association to do legal aid and human rights law, mostly in Africa, but I would like some backup plans as this is far from guaranteed and only an 8-10 month program. Having said that, I am totally flexible on what I do for work. If I find some job that I'm passionate about then great, but the travel is the more important thing right now. Any advice or information is greatly appreciated and if you need any more info about me and my situation just ask!
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| # ? Dec 11, 2012 19:25 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 23:19 |
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For starters congrats on not being American! With FATCA bullshit and visa reciprocity policies, your banking will be easier and your visas will be cheaper. You should start by making a list of places. Multiple lists actually. Unlike the youngin's looking for short-term experiences and english-money, you have a ton of options on the table and you really need to sort through it. Lists needed: Countries you are 100% sure you would be comfortable in. Countries you are curious about, but not 100%. Countries you might possibly consider. Of those countries on that first list, you'll need to do a bit of research as to the ability for you to stay/work there legally, expected expenses to get setup, anticipated difficulties, and since you have student loans to deal with as well - anticipated income... until that's paid off, you're not free. Honestly, I'd stick to countries where moving money around to your Canadian bank is easiest as well. Dealing with stuff from "back home" all the time will ruin any expat's day. Definitely do that internship, it's a nice level of exposure to the expat world and you should quickly be able to decide if it's for you or not. Also a great way to build up that expat-cred and start networking. Expect those lists to change as you learn/experience more. That girlfriend of yours. Marry her. Seriously, do it or break up. Going into it together as anything else is just gonna cause a lot of bullshit drama and grief. Spouses have the ability to get dependency visas, girl/boyfriends... not so much. It means that in most countries only one of you will need a regular job while the other one can hunt. So now you're married, finishing up that internship and have a list of top countries in mind. Possibly with some prospective firms that would hire you. If you're broke at this point, that's your ticket. If you have some funds saved up though. Time to hit that 2nd list for some extended travel. Pound the pavement, don't be a tourist, if you're curious about a place try living there for a while, at least a solid month, but 3 months would be ideal. If you are starting off on that first list and feeling bored, take your vacations on that 3rd list and ideally have an employer that will allow for extended time out of the office. Your ideal employer will be a multinational with offices in countries that you'd like to explore. If, on the other hand, you have some cash and want the adventure. Start out on that 3rd list and pound the pavement like any jobless person would after figuring out if you are cool enough with the place to stay. While teaching English or whatever for a temporary stay might sound attractive, for a long-term expat, it's basically a smear on your work history. It screams "I'm not good enough for a real job" and it's a total waste of your credentials.
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| # ? Dec 11, 2012 20:53 |
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zoomdog posted:
Probably somewhat more useful than the Bar Association: Lawyers Without Borders http://www.lawyerswithoutborders.org/Pages/Default.aspx
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| # ? Dec 12, 2012 15:07 |
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I did the English teaching thing. The most important pieces of hindsight I have at this point are: -Learn the language ASAP. I spent 3 years teaching English, and got into the mindset that studying in my spare time was enough. Then I spent a year in an intensive language program and realized all that I had been missing. Studying by yourself probably will not work. Build the basis early and you will be able to continually improve. Besides, language classes can be really fun. -It seems like you have this covered, but really look into your options first. Additional to that, don't be afraid of long processes. Just about everything worth doing abroad comes with a long, annoying application process and a ton of paperwork requirements. It can be worth it just to grit your teeth and go through it rather than take the easy way out. I just got through the process of applying to grad schools in the country I've been living in (Korea). For the past 3 years, I told myself, "so I have to apply 5 months in advance? I probably won't even get accepted, then I will have wasted months of my life." So when it came time to renew my employment contracts, I usually delayed and ended up renewing another year at my jobs. After finally just spending the effort to get the paperwork together, I ended up getting accepted and funded with a stipend to 4 different programs. I put my life on hold because of a bad attitude, essentially.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2012 16:57 |
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In no particular order: - Either marry or breakup with the girlfriend, as Lowai astutely noted. - How much income exactly do you need to repay the loans? When a lot of people bounce around from country to country, they are normally not making much money. - If you need more income to cover the loan payments, find an international company with a local branch/site/whatever and start there with the express reason of going abroad. Think Honeywell, Varian, GE etc. I'm sure there's a lot more than that. However that will probably conflict with your goal of being abroad by next summer. - I just saw that your girlfriend has an EU passport. Does she still speak German? If so, I would put Austria and Germany up high on the list. - Don't underestimate the language problem. If you fall in love with a country that speaks a really difficult language, it can be a dealbreaker. I currently suck at Czech for example and it's really screwing things up for me. - Lastly I would say expatriating isn't really "adventurous" as in "wow, oh my god, every second of living abroad is so amazing!" ... I would say it's extremely rewarding, but it's filled with moments where you get lost, confused, pissed off, and feel like an idiot. It's more humbling than anything, really. But if you can roll with the punches, you will be good to go after 2-3 weeks.
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| # ? Dec 13, 2012 20:45 |
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Regarding teaching EFL: While the Korea thread bounces between high 5 moments and bitter alcoholic rants, Korea is probably one of your safest bets overseas. Coming from Canada/US, it's easy to slip into a comfortable lifestyle here. Highspeed internet everywhere, decent healthcare, and Western stores aplenty make Korea an easy option.
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| # ? Dec 14, 2012 02:32 |
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AmbientParadox posted:Regarding teaching EFL: Yes, but you see... he's a lawyer. He really shouldn't even be looking at english-teaching.
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| # ? Dec 14, 2012 02:43 |
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Yes, but you see... he's a lawyer. He really shouldn't even be looking at english-teaching. Welcome to the 21st century.
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| # ? Dec 14, 2012 09:23 |
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I've got a number of friends working at law firms abroad in Asia and Europe and that's a field that there's no good broad advice for. Every country seems to have different rules and customs on how it assimilates foreign attorneys. The one thing that's true in the Mekong region, though, is that you can't practice law. You are a consultant who is "of counsel" - so basically, unless you're a citizen in places like Thailand or Cambodia, you have to consult on legal stuff. Practically speaking, this is no different from being an attorney in the US except that someone else signs all your work, heh. Also, abroad, law firms aren't strictly self-regulated partnerships as they are in the US (and Canada? Not sure). They're part of consultancies and audit firms and so on. Seeing 300 attorneys file out of a building for lunch wearing matching neon polo shirts that say something like Theptarin Law Firm is always weird. Your value as a Western attorney in a region like Southeast Asia is the flipside of what it would be in your own country, since there's no real shared legal history like we have with English Common Law or even Napoleonic Code. So, you have no value to locals resolving legal issues locally, really. You end up being of value to companies doing lots of business with a market you're familiar with or you end up consulting in countries who are just setting up areas of the law (i.e. Cambodia & energy law) or you end up handling FDI-related stuff for companies looking to do business where you are. Obviously there are tons of other things, but this is what I hear after spending a fair amount of time drinking with and knowing Western attorneys in places like Bangkok and Phnom Penh and so on. Of course, again, this is Southeast Asia. YMMV elsehwere.
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| # ? Dec 14, 2012 20:51 |
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I've seen patent drafting and proofing work pop up on job boards here in Korea. This was on http://worknplay.co.kr .
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| # ? Dec 15, 2012 03:11 |
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Yes, but you see... he's a lawyer. He really shouldn't even be looking at english-teaching. He should be looking at teaching law.
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| # ? Dec 15, 2012 03:32 |
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GuestBob posted:He should be looking at teaching law. He could make bank teaching adults in Korea if he knew who to talk to. I don't know who he should talk to Toussaint Louverture fucked around with this message at Dec 15, 2012 around 16:34 |
| # ? Dec 15, 2012 16:30 |
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ReindeerF posted:Your value as a Western attorney in a region like Southeast Asia is the flipside of what it would be in your own country, since there's no real shared legal history like we have with English Common Law or even Napoleonic Code. I've looked into options like this, and there are some openings for western lawyers, but most firms in SE Asia want people who have spent 3-5 years in a securities or banking related practice. Not really my thing but it's an option for down the road. The Gay Bean posted:I've seen patent drafting and proofing work pop up on job boards here in Korea. This was on http://worknplay.co.kr . This site is making my eyes bleed, but I'll tough it out and sift through it later, thanks. My Rhythmic Crotch posted:- How much income exactly do you need to repay the loans? When a lot of people bounce around from country to country, they are normally not making much money. I make $42K right now in Edmonton, which after Toronto and Vancouver is probably one of the more expensive Canadian cities to live in, and I make ends meet, but not by a lot. So extrapolate that to the cost of living of wherever I'm going and there's a rough idea. My girlfriend works on commission but probably pulls down $50-55K currently, has much less student debt and is comfortable. e: I have a ~$5K tax refund coming to me in the early new year which will be a loving godsend, so I can factor that in. e2: I would also sell my car, which after paying off what's owing on it should net me another $3K. My Rhythmic Crotch posted:- I just saw that your girlfriend has an EU passport. Does she still speak German? If so, I would put Austria and Germany up high on the list. She used to be fluent, but says she lost a lot of it. I think after a month or so of immersion she'd be fine. Sorry for not updating until now, it's been a busy couple weeks at work (I have lots of family law clients and people like to fight over stuff around the holidays). I have next week off and I'll have much more to update on. zoomdog fucked around with this message at Dec 18, 2012 around 00:18 |
| # ? Dec 18, 2012 00:10 |
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zoomdog posted:I've looked into options like this, and there are some openings for western lawyers, but most firms in SE Asia want people who have spent 3-5 years in a securities or banking related practice. Not really my thing but it's an option for down the road.
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| # ? Dec 18, 2012 06:35 |
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zoomdog posted:This site is making my eyes bleed, but I'll tough it out and sift through it later, thanks. Welcome to Asia. There aren't many opportunities in Korea for an expat to do better than 90k joint income. Just a heads up. If I were in your shoes I'd maybe just send an ap to the big Chaebol companies and see if they want to make you an offer. I've heard of specialist English teachers working for them for incredible hours and good pay but I've never met one.
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| # ? Dec 18, 2012 09:26 |
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Toussaint Louverture posted:Welcome to Asia. That's actually miles above your average Japanese site as well. Here's the often-mentioned webpage of a medical clinic in Saitama, right outside of Tokyo. Finance is quite big in Tokyo, and there are at least a couple of goons that are involved in it. Law is definitely something you won't be doing here as a foreigner though. Sheep fucked around with this message at Dec 18, 2012 around 11:35 |
| # ? Dec 18, 2012 11:22 |
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Gonna hijack this thread and ask some questions of my own: I'm an American, but I left the US a couple years ago for Europe and will now start a salaried job in Belgium. I'd like to know what I should do in terms of saving for retirement, because I plan on spending the rest of my life in Europe. This is complicated by the fact that I'm not set on staying in any specific country as my career choice more or less requires me to be mobile. What type of person do I talk to in real life and how do I find one?
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| # ? Dec 18, 2012 13:29 |
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Boris Galerkin posted:Gonna hijack this thread and ask some questions of my own: Your employer probably already puts money into the retirement program for you. I don't know Belgium's specific laws, but in most (all?) European countries it's done kind of like social security mixed with 401k's. You can put additional money into it if you want, up to some fairly reasonable limit per year. If you do end up leaving Europe, then you can get it all back, too.
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| # ? Dec 18, 2012 16:32 |
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Toussaint Louverture posted:Welcome to Asia. Again, I see zero drat reason for this guy to even bother with english. Just a random find. http://www.shinkim.com/eng/m04/ability_01.asp Go poke around law firms, the pay ain't low (Kim & Jang starts @ above $100k). And IANAL obviously. Lemme make this abundantly clear. English teachers != expats. Halfpats at best, more likely just a foreign worker.
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| # ? Dec 18, 2012 18:13 |
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Sheep posted:Finance is quite big in Tokyo, and there are at least a couple of goons that are involved in it. Law is definitely something you won't be doing here as a foreigner though. Hmm, there are several foreign-owned law firms, and it's also possible to get an in-house job, even if your Japanese isn't that hot. I knew a guy who was one of the top patent lawyers in Panasonic. I got the impression that it was worse in almost every respect than doing the same job back home, though.
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| # ? Dec 19, 2012 06:26 |
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Original_Z posted:Hmm, there are several foreign-owned law firms, and it's also possible to get an in-house job, even if your Japanese isn't that hot. I knew a guy who was one of the top patent lawyers in Panasonic. I got the impression that it was worse in almost every respect than doing the same job back home, though. IANAJapaneseL but the aptly-named "foreign lawyer law" pretty much precludes that. Unless they actually pass the bar in Japan (not happening) the best they can do is act as an adviser, and only with a Japanese-bar-certified lawyer present. You could still get a job doing something else at a foreign firm's Tokyo branch or something but I can't see why you'd want to, honestly. The money's moving out of Japan and China/SE Asia is looking like the place to be as far as I can tell. Edit: This is a good summary of what to expect unless you go are prepared to sit the bar here. Sheep fucked around with this message at Dec 19, 2012 around 13:58 |
| # ? Dec 19, 2012 13:51 |
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If the stuff I have written is too long, just work a few years in Canada for job experience then go to Europe like London. It's a soft landing spot and not so crazy as going to SEA, especially for people who work long long hours. Sorry, I just assume you are generic whitebread from St. Albert/suburb with no overseas experience.zoomdog posted:She used to be fluent, but says she lost a lot of it. I think after a month or so of immersion she'd be fine. Fine to survive everyday life but not fine enough to work in a professional manner? Living overseas is a very very different beast from being a "children of the world traveller". It's good to know that you guys are not planning to save for a big house and be more frugal and all. However, echoing ProPRC, just get married because expat married life is hard enough as it is. A lot of times it ends up with divorce, lots of cheating and alcoholic mess. With a JD and your girlfriend working in finance, don't be an English teacher. You are in your late 20's already so get some good job experience back home. Work experience at the home country is very very crucial for expat hires because it means that you can actually hold a job. A lot of times, working overseas is harder. Labour laws are looser, hours are much longer. Your local co-workers will probably work longer hours on cheaper pay and show disdain on your "work smart not hard" ethic. Workers from a overseas studyabroad/immigrant background will call your expat package bullshit. I can't say for other cities but there should be something similar in East Asia/SEA: let me play devil's advocate. Expats, the ones with a well paid job and housing stipend are usually major douche bags out of touch with local culture. They like to be in their comfortable bubble and show major disdain if they ever have to step out of it. There is a major language, cultural, lifestyle divide. So even when a wide eyed travel newbie like you wants to go on an adventure~~~, the realities and difficulties of foreign life will break you down and turn you into an alcoholic. And a lot of your friends or friends of friends will meet up in bars. Nothing wrong with drinking culture but it seems like expat life is mostly just happy hour Womp Womp let's go drinking and then back to work again. If you don't really speak the local language then you will feel helpless a lot of times. Medications, healthcare, TV, everyday stuff is foreign, and incomprehensible and a major turn off. Public space and personal space is viewd very very different from the Americas. Me growing up in Vancouver hated living in Hong Kong and took me a while to get use to the crowds. And with age you get crankier and don't want to or don't have to energy to go out as much - I still do, but I can't party hard and just pop red bulls like I use to  And your family and friends too, might question "why - Is your hometown not good enough for you?" Some may bitterly judge when you will come back and "not handle things". A lot of peers will have a hard time relating to your experiences. Unless it's other expats so you cling onto each other more. But with the realities of job and pay, you will see your friends leave one by one. You then end up being a lonely bitter recluse. Hopefully your wife/girlfriend is still in a good relationship and you guys have a decent sex life. Or else you turn over to the dark side and become a major sexpat. More money than sense. Please don't fall in love with a Thai Hooker 40 years younger than you when you are 60, and then go on some other forums say "WELL MY MISSUS SAID". As for your girlfriend, crazy major body issues and will arise. Asian girls being more petit and slender, clothes much harder to buy and fashion being different, all the guys going after asian girls, it's a blow to their ego. And if she sees you cheating, she might go to Bali or Thailand and pick a cute boy toy as revenge Even if you do overcome all those hurdles, when you want to "see the world", you end up hopping around different places and only scratch the surface. Like study abroad international school kids, every holiday or vacation ends up taking a cheap flight to some where else instead of seeing the local backyard. "Going Native" at each place from Bangkok to suddenly switching gears to Middle East and then African every few months will make you unadjusted. Enough scaring with you, overseas goons are a good support group, online or in person  A few positive notes:
All this is tiring because at the end of a long day you just want to go home, relax and rest up for the next day. A lot times expats do try but after 3 months they end up getting tanked in the same bar every saturday. I really have painted them in a bad light but I just see them as a product of their environment. And expats in Hong Kong can be really really big douche bags (yeah Cantonese is a odd language to learn compared to Mandarin) Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Lemme make this abundantly clear. English teachers != expats. Halfpats at best, more likely just a foreign worker. That's a bit too harsh. Now we have 2 China goons who are working in a respectable or at least well paying international school. International school teachers are like the rock stars of English teaching, they are in the range of 67k usd/year without being taxed (unless you are American, then jokes on you!) caberham fucked around with this message at Dec 27, 2012 around 01:34 |
| # ? Dec 27, 2012 01:29 |
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caberham posted:Now we have 2 China goons who are working in a respectable or at least well paying international school. International school teachers are like the rock stars of English teaching, they are in the range of 67k usd/year without being taxed (unless you are American, then jokes on you!) I probably have the narrowest definition of expat of anyone. Expat: -Worked for a given company in their home country, and remains employed by the same legal entity when abroad -Is given a timeline, sometimes flexible, of how long they will be abroad -Often receives allowances in the form of plane tickets for family, relocation, cost of living adjustments, language lessons, transport, etc. That's it. You don't "graduate" to expat by becoming a well-paid English teacher after being a normal-paid English teacher. You aren't an expat just by not being an English teacher. Even if you stay with the same company that sent you over in the first place, if you transfer employment to the local legal entity, that timeline disappears so you're no longer an expat. Yes I've read the dictionary definition of expat so no need to post it.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2012 03:15 |
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That's a good succinct definition, and a lot of times it's a relatively short term deployment. Language lessons become a joke and novelty for a few phrases instead of actual study. Kind of ridiculous to continue paying housing stipends for people who live in the same city over 5 years. Unless there are personal reasons, most expats GTFO instead of "downgrading" into a local hire without the housing bonus and all. Why bother renting a house when you always hopping around (unless it's a house for investment) So you have people who hop around the globe doing short term stints in different places but maintain a very comfortable western lifestyle wherever they go. They are mostly out of touch with the local culture but the nice thing having a large expat population is that import stores exist to cater to their tastes. Peanut butter cups, root beer and all sorts of fine cheeses for us locals 
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| # ? Dec 27, 2012 03:39 |
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caberham posted:Please don't fall in love with a Thai Hooker 40 years younger than you when you are 60, and then go on some other forums say "WELL MY MISSUS SAID". I'd agree with most of what caberham said. On the issue of what is or isn't an expat, I don't think it really matters. You go live somewhere, at some point you've been there a while and maybe eventually you realize you're not going back - or even make plans to stay. Once you're here, you're here. I didn't call myself an expat for several years, because I didn't come here committed to stay, I just enjoyed the culture and food and what not and decided to make a go of it. At some point I realized I had no plans to go back. Now I describe myself, when it's relevant or when I've been asked, as an expat. We don't have t-shrits and a secret handshake or anything. Laowai's comments are justified in terms of what you will experience in a local market in many places. It's not that teaching is bad or wrong, it's that if you want to have a career outside of teaching, a lot of companies will look at that experience and go pffffttt, just assuming you were dicking around drunk for X years. Other expats, at least here in Southeast Asia, who aren't teachers tend to kind of look down on teachers as well, though there is definitely a difference in attitude shown to someone who is a professor at a decent university or a top international school because, rightly or wrongly, it's usually assumed that the person is more serious about the career. These stereotypes are moderately useful in assessing broad behaviors, but like most stereotypes they don't necessarily apply well at the individual level. The only advice I'd add to caberham's deal is to JOIN SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS. I don't care if they even turn out to be lovely, just start joining them. Go to AMCHAM happy hours or whatever equivalent you find, get involved with dragon boat racing, volunteer with a charity - anything. Just start (re-)building your social network, because you'll need it now more than ever. As cultural & language skills and local contacts grow, you'll be able to participate in more local networks, though that's a bit tougher as (like in any country, but even more ethnocentric in the ethnically nationalist countries of Asia) outsiders are treated well superficially, but have to stick around a while, earn some credit or marry in or something before they'll be openly welcomed.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2012 04:04 |
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zmcnulty posted:I probably have the narrowest definition of expat of anyone. Expat: If you setup your own company abroad and pull in a wage high enough to pretty much live anywhere you feel like... you're probably an expat. If you are dispatched on a timeframe by a multi-national along with all the perks mentioned above... you're definitely an expat. $67k a year in China works out to like 3.5w a month or 42w a year. That's half-pat territory here. Wherein most of those expat perks simply do not exist. Still some good cash compared to local levels, but nothing fantastic. You might be able to stretch to live in a bubble-world, but it's not to your benefit and you'll be strained to do it. All that being said, you don't have to be taking advantage of all the perks to be an expat. If you choose to forego that life even though it's still there if you want it... I'd still call that an expat. Over the years I have been courted I don't know how many times by some of the big players who want me to move to new york, chill for half a year and be sent right back to be a senior manager. Could I do it? Sure, but I don't want it. I see it also in terms of compensation. For China, I'd flat out call it 5w+ a month is prolly an expat. Under 2w is gonna be a foreign worker. Everything inbetween is half-pat territory. Here's the bubble-world for China expats: You live in a rented villa in a gated community full of foreigners that the company pays for Your kids go to a selection of international schools that the company pays for You're probably not allowed to drive by corporate policy and have a full-time driver and car. Housekeeping/shopping/etc. taken care of by the live-in maid. You're being paid extra for the "hardship" of living abroad. Healthcare is gonna be platinum-level type poo poo with zero deductible and global coverage. You have zero need to ever learn the local language and any locals interfacing with you at work will be doing it in your language or there will be a professional translator with you. Double taxation is actually a big issue to deal with and you'll be familiar with terms like "tax equalization". Number of non-business related flights home each year is a point for negotiation.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2012 08:14 |
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These kinds of expat packages, while still common, are starting to dry up in a number of industries statistically (obviously the sum total will remain non-zero, but new ones aren't being offered in many professions). There've been a number of articles on the topic, but just from people I know who work with major companies all over the world on multi-billion dollar projects I've heard the tales. More and more the engineers I know working on big civil engineering projects in Asian capitals say things like, "This is the first rail project I've worked on in forty years where I'm the only Westerner on payroll." It's affecting lots of professional services jobs too, like law and audit and so on. I've got a couple of friends on expat packages in Asia that are basically insane, but they've flat out said that they pretty much made it in under the wire and that unless you're a partner or have some seriously in-demand specialty you're not getting the massive equalization and rent subsidy and so on. It hasn't seemed to affect energy or mining (etc) hardly at all, and the same is true for NGOs from what I can see. Manufacturing never had as sweet a deal, but they seem to be about doing about like they were before. Major project consulting also doesn't seem to have dried up at the level of BAH and the biggies that work with governments. Probably a number of other sectors I don't encounter, too, like finance. Seems like if you're actually in a sometimes-hazardous business like mining, drilling or manufacturing that sends you to actual shitholes or you're working for governments who you can still bilk then there's a gravy train to be had, heh. Everyone else, well, the company has figured out that Hong Kong, Bangkok, KL and Singapore aren't exactly hardship postings these days, heh, so if you want the 200% payroll, the $20,000 USD monthly rent subsidy, the $20,000/year per child school subsidy, the tax equalization and everything else Pro PRC named then you're starting to run out of luck. ReindeerF fucked around with this message at Dec 27, 2012 around 09:30 |
| # ? Dec 27, 2012 09:26 |
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ReindeerF posted:...starting to run out of luck. How's the Middle East these days?
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| # ? Dec 27, 2012 09:33 |
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GuestBob posted:How's the Middle East these days?
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| # ? Dec 27, 2012 10:20 |
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ReindeerF posted:the tax equalization and everything else Pro PRC named then you're starting to run out of luck. Yep, that poo poo is definitely starting to run dry. As local labor trains up and is developed to appropriate levels, there's zero reason to keep an expat on staff. Or they keep an expat on staff that's at far lower levels compared to what it was before. Or the expat on staff is basically there to oversee operations and keep in contact with the head office. Wifey works for a major mulitnational and over the years it's precisely what has happened. There are some expats on staff still, but the head of the local office is now Chinese, and above him sitting in the US are now expat Chinese... who are making absolute bank, pulling in the same types of benefits that an expat over here would once have expected. poo poo's shifting.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2012 12:06 |
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Saladman posted:Your employer probably already puts money into the retirement program for you. I don't know Belgium's specific laws, but in most (all?) European countries it's done kind of like social security mixed with 401k's. You can put additional money into it if you want, up to some fairly reasonable limit per year. I'm an American about to work in Sweden and am very curious about how to get the money I pay into their social security back if I decide to leave (undecided, but it would drastically affect my planning).
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| # ? Dec 30, 2012 06:39 |
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Wow lots of bitter China expats in here. Guys, do you not realize that you're saying that if you are a non-English teacher making 35000 RMB/month you're only a half expat, and if you're making more than that you're a full expat, but you're a snob living in a bubble who will never experience the real culture, and if you're teaching English you're practically a non-person. Seriously? Seriouspost for the OP: China is not a great place if you want to be an expat and you have the whole world to choose from. Chinese people believe (wrongly) that they are the world's most welcoming people, and thus will say a lot of nice things about foreigners. They are fascinated with white people, or rather the Chinese cultural construct of the "Westerner" just as the West was once fascinated with the idea of "the Orient." Like 19th century Oriental craze in the west, society may be interested culturally but is not ready to accept foreigners or foreign cultures living among them. The reality is that China is deeply, institutionally and personally racist, suspicious of foreigners, and goes out of its way to keep them at arms' length. There is also no history of immigration in China and immigrants do not have a place in Chinese society. If you don't have a prior connection to China it's probably best to just steer clear. China doesn't want you all that much. ... oh no I'm a bitter China expat! Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2012 around 08:16 |
| # ? Dec 30, 2012 08:08 |
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3rd World Dictator posted:I'm an American about to work in Sweden and am very curious about how to get the money I pay into their social security back if I decide to leave (undecided, but it would drastically affect my planning). Actually now that I've looked into it, I'm not sure if only Switzerland gives you the money back, or if all countries give you the money back. The Swiss program ( https://www.credit-suisse.com/ch/pr...sorgesystem.jsp ) will transfer your money either to you (if you move outside Europe) or to [your EU country's equivalent of AVS]. Some countries might just keep your money when you leave, even though you'll never benefit from their retirement plans. I think you'll have to ask your HR or find some other expats who have left the country and see what they did.
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| # ? Dec 30, 2012 16:56 |
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Being happy overseas seems to be 100% about personality. I've never seen a happy expat (using it as a blanket for people working overseas because if you get to have your own personal definition than I do too) who was a big long term planner or really goal oriented. People who are planners always seem to get stressed out and don't deal well with the relative lack of control compared to living in the home country. The ones who do well always tend to be flexible people who have a strong interest in a hobby that they can pursue overseas. The people I know who are into, say, rock climbing or language or cycling or food or really anything are doing well and the people I know who are career minded or just not really into one major pastime all seem to get burned out, unhealthy and grumpy. I've also noticed that the social butterflies who are really into maintaining a huge circle of friends tend to either get jaded as hell after a year or two or adopt a lifestyle that Keith Moon would call unhealthy. Basically if I see two people about to live overseas I'll put my money on the flaky single minded aquarium enthusiast waaaaaay before I would a buttoned down business major with a social circle the size of a small university.
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| # ? Dec 31, 2012 00:24 |
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Arglebargle III posted:Wow lots of bitter China expats in here. Guys, do you not realize that you're saying that if you are a non-English teacher making 35000 RMB/month you're only a half expat, and if you're making more than that you're a full expat, but you're a snob living in a bubble who will never experience the real culture, and if you're teaching English you're practically a non-person. Seriously? It's PPL being PPL. Nobody even knows if he truly exists. But he's more of an online caricature of a nouveau rich cab driver. Other guys here are based in Japan or SEA. Yes, some of the stuff I type seems too easy to categorize people but I have seen my share of burnt out expats and ReindeerF clarified my issues. I wouldn't say English teaching is a non-person, but it really depends on what you get out of it. Lots of English teachers are unfairly dismissed and portrayed in a less than positive light. It's just that the education industry is so large and the requirements to get in varies so much compared to other professions. You have burnt out or whatever reason qualified teachers in the west going elsewhere for better pay. Highschool The education industry is a huge meat grinder for foreigners living abroad and that's why you have people looking at it in disdain. You have public schools, private tutoring centres, international schools, illegal one-on-one tutors, business English teachers, mixed employment. The type of employment and the range of the pay scale is so vast (or the payfloor can be very very low). A lot of times, teaching is unfairly painted as be white and show off to rich parents and young talent who want to excel and grow their skillsets are being exploited. A lot of times, English teachers are adding extra years of teaching to their resume but the quality of the work may not reflect that. I think this is more of a education industry issue, it's an unfortunate chicken and egg scenario: with so much money dumped into hiring foreigners overseas why is the level of English in the main population still so mediocre compared to the amount of money dumped in? But heck, I see all expat jobs as a meat grinder, with lots of people being burnt out/bored at a super high rate. English teaching is a sure fire way to get your foot in the door, but there are also other ways to get in. Which can get him more money and work related experience. The OP is about to get rare professional experience and that is why everyone is telling him to look for related work relative to his experience. Lots of companies consider English Teaching to be more of a glorified vacation. Some love to teach and want to teach in China or elsewhere (great) some just want a visa and start a new life (Ok！ but make sure you have a valid exit strategy without being a lovely teacher ). Ugh I realized I type a long winded post of what ReindeerF said in a short paragraph. ReindeerF posted:Other expats, at least here in Southeast Asia, who aren't teachers tend to kind of look down on teachers as well, though there is definitely a difference in attitude shown to someone who is a professor at a decent university or a top international school because, rightly or wrongly, it's usually assumed that the person is more serious about the career. These stereotypes are moderately useful in assessing broad behaviors, but like most stereotypes they don't necessarily apply well at the individual level. The guy is only a high school graduate but there is a lot more going on in his head compared to a lot of degree holders. Quite a few goons here were either language students or had a lot more humbler roots. And are still enjoying their lives in the Eastern Hemishpere quote:Seriouspost for the OP: China is not a great place if you want to be an expat and you have the whole world to choose from. Chinese people believe (wrongly) that they are the world's most welcoming people, and thus will say a lot of nice things about foreigners. They are fascinated with white people, or rather the Chinese cultural construct of the "Westerner" just as the West was once fascinated with the idea of "the Orient." Bitter China expat? 你沒夠班啊  What you said can apply to lots of countries in East Asia/SEA. Not debating the merits of immigration policy (yes it's atrocious), but are lots of other reasons compelling people to stay. People who lived/live overseas are always a bit quirky in someway. I guess the fascination is there because the west is technological super power and the world runs on USD? Or that any quantitative easing by the Fed or any interest rates being adjusted causes huge economic consequences? Sorry to hear that your China experience isn't as great as expected? It's a big country with lots of people and all, maybe go meet some new people? Or you can vent some more in the China thread. Better, just come to Hong Kong and join our pathfinder group. I need more goons here in the South. You will be less discriminated and get permanent residency!
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| # ? Dec 31, 2012 05:47 |
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This is what really happens with bitter expat families. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Robert_Kissel Rich Housewife gets abused by investment banker husband. Proceeds to drug him and make mincemeat out of his head. Then rolls up the dead body in a nice carpet pretending nothing happened. Best part of the story was that she hosed the tv repairman back in the US.
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| # ? Dec 31, 2012 05:52 |
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caberham posted:The guy is only a high school graduate but there is a lot more going on in his head compared to a lot of degree holders. Quite a few goons here were either language students or had a lot more humbler roots. And are still enjoying their lives in the Eastern Hemishpere The most important thing to understand about expatriating is that while you may not like all the new rules, the old rules do not apply anymore. They used to say "Go West, young man" in America, but that's dead now. If you truly want to "Go West, young man," you need to keep going past California and Hawaii and stop when you've gone so far that you're in the East. caberham posted:This is what really happens with bitter expat families. ReindeerF fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2013 around 17:30 |
| # ? Jan 1, 2013 17:26 |
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I'm a fellow Albertan interested in working overseas as well. I'd be primarily interested in Asia / SEA, I have an engineering degree and ~2 years of work experience with construction / project management. Caberham's post doesn't exactly paint a rosy picture of HK - which is on the higher end of the list for where I'd like to go (I have an intermediate level of Cantonese and I'm taking lessons for basic Mandarin). I had some conversations with a few friends late in the night discussing possible goals for 2013, and I'm just not very stimulated by my day-to-day life in Canada, despite being relatively problem free. I've done alot of reading and researching about many countries in the area (China, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand in particular), is it in any way realistic to find work that is relevant to my work or am I SOL for anything aside from English teaching jobs because of potential language barriers and/or work culture? Pieces fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2013 around 22:39 |
| # ? Jan 1, 2013 22:37 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 23:19 |
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Anywhere you go other than Canada you aren't a lawyer - our sort of qualifications don't travel well as such. Experience travels well but if you're leaving at this stage then you don't have experience. So you're a smart, well-educated person without a marketable skillset outside Canada. That means entry level jobs, outside Canada. Your gf is a forex trader. Only a few cities globally have the kind of finance sector to support that as a career, although trading skills are probably more portable than legal ones. I can only speak as to HK and China. Both places are fairly welcoming of foreigners and despite the cheerful banter here, there are jobs available, but they are hard to find and you will have to impress off the bat. Even then you may get a lot of rejections and have a long wait before finding your entry-level job. If you can handle that, cool. As far as white collar jobs go, you're probably hosed in this part of the world. However... Dropping everything and going travelling the world in search of something that works for you personally is loving ballsy. If you both do it, odds on you are quite interesting people. I'd certainly have the time of day for someone who did something that risky, if only out of a sort of horrified fascination to see what you might do next.
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| # ? Feb 21, 2013 18:17 |
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