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Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


Behold, I give you the Superman.

In 1938, Superman made his debut in Action Comics #1. Quickly becoming a hit, Superman spread to all forms of media beyond the comic book he began in. Newspaper strips, radio serials, short films, tv series, broadway plays, he was everywhere. And then, in 1978 came Superman the MOtion Picture, his feature film debut. Directed by Richard Donner and starring Christopher Reeve in the role that would define his career, STMP is the first true big budget comic book film and by many it is still considered the best. Three sequels followed, never quite matching the magic of the original and interest in Superman on film began to wane. And sadly Christopher Reeve died after a labored existance following a tragic horse riding accident.


In 2005 Bryan Singer (X-Men, X2) attempted to bring the majesty back with Superman Returns starring then unknown Brandon Routh in the title role of Superman and his alter ego Clark Kent. Though well received by many, overall SR is not considered a great film by the masses, suffering by linking itself to the Donner/Reeve films while the thriving Nolan Batman franchise was an entirely fresh start. In the end, Warner Brothers chose to not move forward with a sequel, instead moving ahead with a fresh start.


In 2013, director Zack Snyder (300, Sucker Punch), producer Christopher Nolan (Memento, The Dark Knight Trilogy) will bring is the new vision of the Last Son of Krypton.


This film has quite the cast:
Henry Cavil - Clark Kent/Superman
Amy Adams - Lois Lane
Kevin Costner - Jonathan Kent
Diane Lane - Martha Kent
Russel Crowe - Jor-El
Michael Shannon - General Zod
Lawrence Fishburne - Perry White

We first saw this still from the film


We saw a teaser a few months ago
Jonathan Kent - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpvOT6HJCmg
Jor-El - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X_1BC39eT4

Then a poster


And now we have the first true trailer from the film, showing us what the film will look and feel like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVu3gS7iJu4

This trailer gave me goosebumps, it brought a few tears to my eye. It looks wonderful, like the Superman epic I've been waiting so long to see on the big screen. As much as I enjoyed Superman Returns I still felt it was lacking and I do have issues with Bryan Singers choices when he made the film so this fresh start is quite welcome to this fan.
So what do you want out of this film? Many here have complained that SR didn't have enough action, that Superman needs to punch some bad guys. I kind of agree with that and it looks like MoS will deliver, giving us a bad guy who can stand toe to toe with Superman.
There's also the endless arguing over the lack of red trunks. Personally I'm against the change but I will reserve judgment until we see some more action sequences of the suit in full view.

Are you ready to look up in the sky?

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Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


I really liked the teaser trailers. We got the Jor-El/Russell Crowe 'version' here and I liked that one a lot more than the alternative.

The second trailer seems really intriguing. If nothing else, Snyder seems to have a really good eye for Superman's particular brand of iconography and iconic imagery. Pretty much any shot in that trailer that had the cape in it was spot-on. I'm not really seeing the 'dark and gritty' complaints that I've seen popping up constantly since Nolan and Thomas were announced as producers.

There's a definite cynicism to some of the imagery in the trailer and Jonathon Kent's 'Maybe...' seems quite bleak placed out of context like that. But a lot of that stems from what seems to be a much more reverent approach to the legacy of Superman and examining what Superman is, as opposed to Returns' reverence for the Donner films in particular.

I was pretty down on this when it was announced, but it's looking really promising to me.

Rocco
Mar 15, 2003

Hey man. You're number one. Put it. In. The Bucket.

Have we not seen this story a thousand loving times already?

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


Rocco posted:

Have we not seen this story a thousand loving times already?

In film? No, just the once. Snyder seems to be playing with the origin quite a bit though, this looks like a bit of a departure from the standard origin.

Two Kings
Oct 31, 2004

Get the scientists working on the tube technology, immediately.

The second trailer is really giving me Superman Returns vibes. That's bad. I think the sheer reverence for the character is really hurting the franchise. It's like he's the superhero Jesus or something. Has WB learned anything from the success of The Avengers? Please just make a good action movie. And we don't need another Superman origin story. Everyone knows the Superman origin. Get right to the meat of the story from the get go and focus on making a thrilling superhero movie.

Thulsa Doom
Jun 20, 2011

Ezekiel 23:20


The "Maybe..." comment and the teaser image of the handcuffs imply something interesting. I'm going out on a limb here, but this film seems to be dealing with an intriguing question that no film has asked yet. Where does the perfect man who comes from the sky to do only good belong in our society? Would we even be able to accept him?

Returns touched on the Passion/suffering and death part of the solar redeemer deity that Superman encompasses, but it was gutless and it boiled down to everyone loving and trusting him implicitly except one guy, who is obviously crazy.

I can see Nolan's influence here, but I expect it to be nothing like the Batman films.

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

Everyone talks about how awesome Achilles is, but did he ever made the god of war his bitch?


Sadly Diomedesforever6 just doesn't ring as well as Achillesforever6

Rhyno posted:

In film? No, just the once. Snyder seems to be playing with the origin quite a bit though, this looks like a bit of a departure from the standard origin.
Isn't this based off Birthright?

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


Two Kings posted:

The second trailer is really giving me Superman Returns vibes. That's bad. I think the sheer reverence for the character is really hurting the franchise. It's like he's the superhero Jesus or something. Has WB learned anything from the success of The Avengers? Please just make a good action movie.

I don't really understand how reverence for the character is at odds with making a 'good action movie'. Or why Superman's leanings as a mythic, religious or Christ figure are detrimental to that either, actually.

WB did pretty good with the Dark Knight trilogy with the same reverence and those were perfectly good action movies.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007

ella ella

Rhyno posted:

In film? No, just the once. Snyder seems to be playing with the origin quite a bit though, this looks like a bit of a departure from the standard origin.

I'd say enough of the origin business was recapped in Superman Returns to count as twice. Three times if we're counting the cartoon.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


achillesforever6 posted:

Isn't this based off Birthright?

We won't know how much of Birthright is in the film until we see it.

LtKenFrankenstein posted:

I'd say enough of the origin business was recapped in Superman Returns to count as twice. Three times if we're counting the cartoon.

We got ten loving years of origin in Smallville.

Thulsa Doom
Jun 20, 2011

Ezekiel 23:20


You can do the origin in four lines, or it can be the focus of the story. There's a lot of material to mine there. I don't think there's a definitive or even satisfactory version in visual media. The Donner version is ridiculous, as is the Returns rehash, and the animated version is by the numbers and more interested in establishing future plot hooks.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


Thulsa Doom posted:

You can do the origin in four lines, or it can be the focus of the story. There's a lot of material to mine there. I don't think there's a definitive or even satisfactory version in visual media. The Donner version is ridiculous, as is the Returns rehash, and the animated version is by the numbers and more interested in establishing future plot hooks.

You can indeed do the origin in four lines but it doesn't make for good cinema.

Thulsa Doom
Jun 20, 2011

Ezekiel 23:20


It would make for a good intro to the sequel. I don't like Raimi's Spider-Man but the way the second recapped the first in a series of stills hitting the iconic moments was pretty well done.

I think the filmmakers want to make the origin story and understand that the audience wants to see it. We haven't had a proper one yet. The first act of the Donner film has this weird dissonance where it needs to get the origin out of the way but wants to instill it with this sense of grandeur, as well. It also makes what I think is a huge mistake in hanging on the idea of Superman's moral sense being instilled in him by an outside source.

Farbtoner
May 17, 2011

by Y Kant Ozma Post


This is the first time in 35 years we've had a Superman movie that wasn't a descendant of the Donner movie and the first thing people are saying is "Oh great, another loving Superman movie"

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

Is that... alcohol?



Dan Didio posted:

I don't really understand how reverence for the character is at odds with making a 'good action movie'. Or why Superman's leanings as a mythic, religious or Christ figure are detrimental to that either, actually.

WB did pretty good with the Dark Knight trilogy with the same reverence and those were perfectly good action movies.

Did we watch the same Dark Knight? I don't know if I'd call a movie that wants to explore how Batman would be better off being replaced by people who are actually accountable "reverent."

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007

ella ella

Rhyno posted:

You can indeed do the origin in four lines but it doesn't make for good cinema.

Incredible Hulk did it really well, I think. As a reboot too, no less.

Yannick_B
Oct 11, 2007


If you're "bringing back" a character like that, its always better to start at the beginning. Most of an audience instinctively wants to be on the groundfloor with the character, why did he start being a superhero (which is always something that can take different shapes in the Superman origin) or wearing the costume and so on.

As someone else mentionned, it seems pretty interesting that Superman might keep his purity and his morals, but setting this in a more "realistic" (well, less stylized) than a Richard Donner or Sam Raimi Spider-Man world just makes everything more difficult for him.

stratdax
Sep 14, 2006


Rhyno posted:

You can indeed do the origin in four lines but it doesn't make for good cinema.



That isn't really his origin anyway, that's just the story about how a baby arrived on earth. The origin would be how that baby grew up to be Superman and why, which is a little more involved.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007

ella ella

My concern with the origin story thing is that it might leave us with another Amazing Spider Man situation, where we get a movie that probably serves as a decent introduction for people with zero exposure to the character but is boring as poo poo for the rest of us.

Then again a lot of people liked that one, I guess.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


LtKenFrankenstein posted:

My concern with the origin story thing is that it might leave us with another Amazing Spider Man situation, where we get a movie that probably serves as a decent introduction for people with zero exposure to the character but is boring as poo poo for the rest of us.

Then again a lot of people liked that one, I guess.

Snyder has said that even though Nolan left to finish Batman he still had a heavy influence. So hopefully he kept that from happening.

Yannick_B
Oct 11, 2007


LtKenFrankenstein posted:

My concern with the origin story thing is that it might leave us with another Amazing Spider Man situation, where we get a movie that probably serves as a decent introduction for people with zero exposure to the character but is boring as poo poo for the rest of us.

Then again a lot of people liked that one, I guess.

Superman's origin is way more malleable than Spider-Man's though. The Spider-Man origin is a tightly-plotted 12 pages. The Superman origin is one page where planets die and years pass between panels. Birthright is different from Byrne's Man of Steel, both are different from the origins bits in Morrison's Action Comics and etc.

The trailer already hints at showing a kid struggling with powers, whats right and wrong which is briefly covered in the Donner movie, but with a different approach, you can make way more out of it.

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


Defiance Industries posted:

Did we watch the same Dark Knight? I don't know if I'd call a movie that wants to explore how Batman would be better off being replaced by people who are actually accountable "reverent."

You can approach a character with reverence and respect for their legacy and history and treating the character seriously without agreeing with it.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


Yannick_B posted:

The trailer already hints at showing a kid struggling with powers, whats right and wrong which is briefly covered in the Donner movie, but with a different approach, you can make way more out of it.

The bit with his mother trying to teach him how to focus through the noise is lovely. And adult Clark using the ocean to muffle the sounds is pretty boss too.

Yannick_B
Oct 11, 2007


Rhyno posted:

The bit with his mother trying to teach him how to focus through the noise is lovely. And adult Clark using the ocean to muffle the sounds is pretty boss too.

Save for the leaping in Superman Returns, they've never done "Clark learns his powers" in the movies. The simple fact that you could see unfold everything thats been taken for "granted" in the Donner Superman Smallville segment already makes it a pretty different origin.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


Yannick_B posted:

Save for the leaping in Superman Returns, they've never done "Clark learns his powers" in the movies. The simple fact that you could see unfold everything thats been taken for "granted" in the Donner Superman Smallville segment already makes it a pretty different origin.

I really hope we get some decent "learns his powers" scenes.

JohnnySavs
Dec 28, 2004


Rhyno posted:

I really hope we get some decent "learns his powers" scenes.

In a way, at least from the point of view of a kid trying to fit in, most of his powers are basically liabilities. Oops, laser-ignited that bully's shirt. Can't concentrate on the test because he can hear everyone in the town talking. If it's presented more as overcoming his (super) shortcomings that'd be an interesting twist.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


JohnnySavs posted:

In a way, at least from the point of view of a kid trying to fit in, most of his powers are basically liabilities. Oops, laser-ignited that bully's shirt. Can't concentrate on the test because he can hear everyone in the town talking. If it's presented more as overcoming his (super) shortcomings that'd be an interesting twist.

The X-Ray vision around Lana will be expectedly awkward.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007

ella ella

Yannick_B posted:

Save for the leaping in Superman Returns, they've never done "Clark learns his powers" in the movies.

What? They did that in the original.

I haven't written this off completely, though. I'm in it for Michael Shannon and what looks like some cool cinematography. I'm just not expecting something that's gonna top parts 1, 2 or Returns.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


LtKenFrankenstein posted:

What? They did that in the original.

I haven't written this off completely, though. I'm in it for Michael Shannon and what looks like some cool cinematography. I'm just not expecting something that's gonna top parts 1, 2 or Returns.

All Clark did in STMP was run past the train and kick a football. We never saw him discovering anything.

Something else that really strikes me about MoS, Snyder cast Kevin Costner and Russel Crowe, two of my favorite actors, as the fathers of my favorite fictional character. That locked me in for this film right then and there.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009


I hate the first Superman movie even more than the old Batman movies, but maybe Christopher Nolan can set things right again!

Oh, it's directed by the guy who made Sucker Punch.

Slackerish
Jan 1, 2007

Hail Boognish


Mercrom posted:

]

Oh, it's directed by the guy who made Sucker Punch.

And the Watchmen debacle.

it's also being penned by David S. Goyer who wrote Ghost Rider 2. I loved the trailer and really want a great Superman movie that deals with the more existential elements of the comics but the "talent" behind it is making me nervous.

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

Revengeful corpse out to kill Smell the stench, your guts will spill
Vomit for a mind, maggots for a cock With his axe the corpse will chop


I haven't seen Sucker Punch but I did enjoy Snyders Watchmen and Dawn of the Dead remake. To this day I still don't really get why people would ever prefer crap like the Spiderman movies over something like Watchmen

Slackerish
Jan 1, 2007

Hail Boognish


Zzulu posted:

I haven't seen Sucker Punch but I did enjoy Snyders Watchmen and Dawn of the Dead remake. To this day I still don't really get why people would ever prefer crap like the Spiderman movies over something like Watchmen

For me, I'm not a huge Spider-Man fan myself but I also don't really ever read the comics. So Raimi's Spidey flicks, at least the first two, worked as good popcorn action movies for me. Also I was young enough when they came out to only enjoy them on a surface "oh cool, explosions!" level so there's that. I didn't like Amazing Spider-Man at all.

I fully understand that had I never read the comic book, I would have probably liked Watchmen a lot. But I finished the comic book the day the movie came out and went to the premiere with high hopes (the trailer was so cool!) and then it felt like he took all of the main points of the story without any of the depth. The worst part was how they tease the scene with Rorscach and the shrink. That was my favorite part in the book and they loving show you like 5 minutes if that of it and then they don't bring it back. That scene, to me, was the most crucial part of Rorscach's character development. Then he changed the loving ending, added "real world issues" to the movie, I dunno the whole thing felt like a kick in the nuts to fans of the book and for the record I am not one of those "mrehh they changed my comic books in the comic book movies!" types. It was just, in the case of Watchmen, I thought he did all the wrong things.

Now that's just my two cents. I don't want to derail this thread into a debate over whether or not Watchmen was a good movie even though it's probably heading in that direction anyway.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Distrusting me was the wisest thing you've done.

Two Kings posted:

The second trailer is really giving me Superman Returns vibes. That's bad. I think the sheer reverence for the character is really hurting the franchise. It's like he's the superhero Jesus or something. Has WB learned anything from the success of The Avengers?

The Avengers was monetarily successful, but has the least depth out of any movie I've seen (at theatres) in the entire year, and the one I never want to see again due to its pointlessness and lack of overall vision and cinematography. I don't like Superman Returns at all, mainly due to Singer's coma-inducing direction, but at the very least, it makes for some interesting conversation as it does have actual depth. I'd much, much rather get another Superman Returns (which it won't be, since Snyder has a much better visual eye than Singer, even comparing Dawn of the Dead 2004 to anything Singer has done) than another Avengers.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010


Obtuse Cunt.
Please Do Not Engage.
Will bore you and everyone else with inane questions.




Slackerish posted:

Then he changed the loving ending, added "real world issues" to the movie, I dunno the whole thing felt like a kick in the nuts to fans of the book and for the record I am not one of those "mrehh they changed my comic books in the comic book movies!" types. It was just, in the case of Watchmen, I thought he did all the wrong things.


Even in the comic the space squid was really out there and wouldn't have made any sense in the film without the exposition they left out.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Distrusting me was the wisest thing you've done.

computer parts posted:

Even in the comic the space squid was really out there and wouldn't have made any sense in the film without the exposition they left out.

And the comic had real world issues and was a commentary of current comics. The movie just updated it to current issues and made it a commentary of current comic movies. I don't see how people miss that, for instance, the comic's depictions of violence and action for their era are the same as the movie's for its era.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn 2012
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

achillesforever6 posted:

Isn't this based off Birthright?

Possibly. So far it's sure seeming to throw a lot of Birthright story points in, but, unless they're going to pull a complete 180 from what we've heard, Luthor isn't in this, and he was pretty vital to Birthright. That being said, I can see how they can change a few things here and there to make the story work with Zod instead. Different structure, same themes, that kind of thing.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Distrusting me was the wisest thing you've done.

Luthor was pretty much just thrown in there -just- because he is Superman's #1 villain, and also to acknowledge that they knew each other growing up. The base themes of the book can easily be done with a real Kryptonian threat as opposed to Luthor's special effects, science, and actors, as you said.

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE WILL NOTICE HULK

Rhyno posted:

The bit with his mother trying to teach him how to focus through the noise is lovely. And adult Clark using the ocean to muffle the sounds is pretty boss too.

It seems to me that the way the trailer is cut implies that in the movie the scenes of Clark as a kid will be flashbacks. When he's in the ocean flashes back to his mother telling him to focus, when he sees the school bus it flashes back to him saving the kids and Pa Kent reluctantly questioning whether he should have. My guess is that this will be the "Hobo" Clark part where he's trying to figure out his place in the world.

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mr. unhsib
Sep 19, 2003
I hate you all.

After Sucker Punch I'm really intrigued to see what Snyder does with this. Sucker Punch was a movie that came from a place of deep loathing of "fanboys" and their mindset and now he is literally making a movie about their jesus.

Worrying part about all this though, is that Sucker Punch wasn't particularly a good movie...

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