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Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
I really liked the teaser trailers. We got the Jor-El/Russell Crowe 'version' here and I liked that one a lot more than the alternative.

The second trailer seems really intriguing. If nothing else, Snyder seems to have a really good eye for Superman's particular brand of iconography and iconic imagery. Pretty much any shot in that trailer that had the cape in it was spot-on. I'm not really seeing the 'dark and gritty' complaints that I've seen popping up constantly since Nolan and Thomas were announced as producers.

There's a definite cynicism to some of the imagery in the trailer and Jonathon Kent's 'Maybe...' seems quite bleak placed out of context like that. But a lot of that stems from what seems to be a much more reverent approach to the legacy of Superman and examining what Superman is, as opposed to Returns' reverence for the Donner films in particular.

I was pretty down on this when it was announced, but it's looking really promising to me.

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Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Two Kings posted:

The second trailer is really giving me Superman Returns vibes. That's bad. I think the sheer reverence for the character is really hurting the franchise. It's like he's the superhero Jesus or something. Has WB learned anything from the success of The Avengers? Please just make a good action movie.

I don't really understand how reverence for the character is at odds with making a 'good action movie'. Or why Superman's leanings as a mythic, religious or Christ figure are detrimental to that either, actually.

WB did pretty good with the Dark Knight trilogy with the same reverence and those were perfectly good action movies.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Defiance Industries posted:

Did we watch the same Dark Knight? I don't know if I'd call a movie that wants to explore how Batman would be better off being replaced by people who are actually accountable "reverent."

You can approach a character with reverence and respect for their legacy and history and treating the character seriously without agreeing with it.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Baron Bifford posted:

Oh come on! Coming up with pseudo-scientific explanation for superpowers is one of the great joys of reading and writing superheroes!

God no. Categorizing and 'explaining' superheroes and their abilities in cold, patently fake, calculated 'scientific' terms is the most absurd and illegitimate train of thought to ever approach a comic through.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Baron Bifford posted:

It's what distinguishes a true comic nerd from the new legions of mainstream superhero fans who think they're one of us just because they liked The Dark Knight and The Avengers.

Comics are the loving worst.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Xenomrph posted:

It's sort of like Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen - by the end of the story he just doesn't give a gently caress about humanity because the scope of his power and knowledge is so much greater than theirs; it's like genuinely caring about the well-being about individual ants in an ant colony on anything other than an observational, scientific level.

Watchmen ends with Dr. Manhattan discovering a newfound appreciation and respect for humankind.

"I think I'll go create some."

Baron Bifford posted:

My thought is a super-villain who runs a massive child sex-trafficking ring. We can see Superman beat up somebody whom we have a proper reason to hate and rescue genuine victims of the kind we agonize over in the news all the time.

What the gently caress

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
No, it's him grooming Honor Roll children in the back of his spaceship.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Xenomrph posted:

It's been a few years since I read 'Watchmen', but I remember reading that line as him not caring about humanity at all and that he was going to go off and create some life he did care about.

No, he rediscovers his love of human life because of Laurie and the circumstances of her life and goes off to create some for himself.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Baron Bifford posted:

Delzuma was quoting a line from Civil War: Frontline #11. Some idiot was questioning his relevancy based on his knowledge of current pop culture.


I think Gyges knew that, Baron, given that he also referenced that scene.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
If only that cartoon character had been as canny as you, she'd have known about all the children Darkseid abused.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

It is a good thing Superman stayed morally pure by not killing Darkseid, self-appointed God of Evil who strives to enslave the universe and destroy free will. Though in effect Superman repeatedly fails to defeat Darkseid and perpetuates the slavery and deaths of untold billions, it is OK, because Superman is the better man. The moral crisis of this galactic genocide is nothing compared to Superman's personal morals.

Sure, comics paint a universe governed by bizarre contradictions that serve the needs of an on-going serial story with popular characters. It's just that when Superman inevitably tries to grapple with these contrivances, as does virtually every popular superhero, Superman usually manages to be among the least convincing in his conclusions.

In comparison to Superman, Batman is now typically written as a deeply flawed character who might even be insane in his own right. And even when he's dealing with his most vile enemies, at least he's not also, for all intents and purposes, posing as a deity. He can't prevent every evil and he has many practical limitations. He is constricted for the most part to earthly conflicts that fall within the realm of human society. Superman explicitly does not have limits. His enemies have deific powers and by definition are beyond the ken of human civilization to govern or contain. Superman can typically go everywhere and do everything, limited only by his mortal mind, which is paradoxically as god-like in its moral purity--supposedly--as are his other abilities in their potential.

As I think most admit, Superman as both an infallible and omnipotent being is at this point profoundly dumb. These stories just aren't that interesting anymore. In order for the story to have any weight at all, he possesses one quality or the other at best. If he has both, the entire direction easily becomes perverted and he fails at one or both metrics anyway. When Superman demonstrates moral superiority by lobotomizing his opponent with a glance and pretending to murder his friends with god-like precision, it only demonstrates how perverted Superman's morals are even then.

Killing is wrong.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Burkion posted:

I don't mind the possible Jimmy thing to happen-I just object to it resulting in a new love interest/crush.

I cannot see that being the road they take that prospective change at all. Given that there are a lot more women getting into, and doing succesfully, in Journalism now than ever, at least where I am, it's a change I welcome.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
They should just let Guy Pearce go for the hat-trick in rich, science fiction douchebags and shave his head.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Steve Yun posted:

Does the Time Machine count?

Always and forever.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
There's shots of some big tentacle thing as well as the native bird things on Krypton.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
You and me, Thwomp; we get Superman. You wanna' know why?

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
I love Hancock. I feel like a lot of people went in hoping for some kind of parody of Superheroes instead of an earnest Superhero origin that uses humor to highlight the transformation of the main character.

I'd be interested to see how people respond to it post-Avengers and Marvel's output, to be honest.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

bobkatt013 posted:

He was also sleeping with Supergirl at that time, but not the Krypton one the shapeshifting one.

Who was really an angel.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
Who cares

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Jerk McJerkface posted:

rear end is an incredible introduction to Superman. It's an amazing story, and I defy anyone to read the part where Clark's dad dies, and he gets to spend a few more minutes with his dad in disguise and not have an emotional response. It gets a little goofy in parts, but for a super hero story about a guy that is basically invincible it sure makes a compelling story.

Morrison's father died around that time and that issue was largely written as he came to terms with it, I believe.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

enraged_camel posted:

I also liked that Louis was hot and single.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnQoq07ej_M&t=65s

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

teagone posted:

There's also a bit where Superman keeps the fight above the city until Zod manages to bring the both of them back down.

I'm pretty sure Zod's actually the one who takes the fight into space and brings it back down.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
"I'm from Smallville, Kansas and I say 'kill 'em all!'" - Pete Ross, Man of Steel.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
That we know of.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
He's actually quite a nice sort once you get to know him.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
Yeah, I was under the distinct impression that Zod was the one who took the fight orbital, and then brought it back down.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
I'm pretty sure I even told someone in this thread that was what happened. Whoops.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

In a perfect world, Man Of Steel 2 will feature Batman as the villain, and end with Superman snapping his neck.

No, no, no, Batman pulls a gun on Lois and Superman snaps his neck.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
How many times has the puppy trained in 100x normal gravity?

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
I'll have to see a very impressively detailed scale Lego model of a Kryptonian dropship before I can endorse any of this

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
When a character says that something can't be done, and multiple characters of conflicting viewpoints do not disagree, and the film itself never contradicts this assertion, what this means is that the film is lying.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Baron Bifford posted:

That doesn't mean nobody died off-screen.

It's a film.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Maxwell Lord posted:

You people would LOVE Geoff Johns' work, I can tell.

Don't be stupid. There's a difference between something overstuffed with gratuitous violence for shock effect and expecting a climactic action sequence in a packet metropolis to not be completely bloodless, sanitary and effortless.

This isn't even some sort of dumb verisimilitude argument about whatever bullshit, The Avengers' climax suffers because it refuses to address that there are things at stake beside nebulous win/loss conditions. It lacks tension throughout and there's very little to be invested in beside flashy special effects and fan service.

Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 05:37 on May 6, 2014

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Maxwell Lord posted:

But it comes from the same place, the argument that "stakes" require a body count.

Stakes require a threat, the antagonists in The Avengers are completely non-threatening. It has nothing to do with some desperate outcry for extreme violence and 'this is where that line of thinking leads' is nonsense.

The Avengers succeed in The Avengers only because it's made impossible for them to fail.

Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 07:55 on May 6, 2014

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

corn in the bible posted:

The Avengers is bad because it's a comic book movie.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.
I would love to have the powers of Superman.

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Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Grendels Dad posted:

You know he just got there. Jenny only knew she was saved by someone, then saw Superman saving someone.

But of course BrianWilly is correct and Lous logically is just as likely to have saved everybody as the guy who can fly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTl81iYhIJM&t=66s

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