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  The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch is an amazing book. The setting is a medieval Venice steeped in old magics the world no longer understands. Our main character, Locke Lamora, is a thief-priest devoted to the Nameless Thirteenth god, the Crooked Warden. His crew are the Gentlemen Bastards, thieves who remind the rich and powerful that they aren't impervious. Scott Lynch, the author, has published a second book in the series, Red Seas Under Red Skies. The general agreement is that it's not as good as the first book, but it's still worth reading. Reading it will spoil a majority of the first book though, so be careful to read them in order. A third book is on the horizon, but Lynch has crushing anxiety problems that seem to control his life and are preventing that book from being released on time, late, or possibly ever. Lies is a book that reads like a classic heist movie. It begins mid heist, then takes some time out to explain some of the characters and what's going on, then returns to the action. The stakes increase as the book goes along, until eventually the "good guys" get in over their head. The story resolves fully- the book can easily be read as a stand alone and the reader will feel like they have had a complete experience. I really like a lot of things about this book. The tone is light to begin but quickly becomes darker. The way magic is handled in the world is fairly unique and results in what for me was one of the best payoffs I have ever read. The characters are interesting and varied. I could go but it is just going to me babbling about how everything is awesome. Anyway, onto the spoilers. Anything past the first 100 page in Lies should be spoilered, unless it becomes clear everyone has read both books. Who else thinks in the Third Book that they are going to find a dragon heart to cure Locke? Earlier they mention that eating it will cure any disease. I'll be pretty excited if the third book ever does come out. And I hope the wait between three and four won't be as bad as two and three. Why should I read this book in one sentence? Read this book because twin mafioso women armed with spears fight sharks in an aquatic arena while rich Dukes look on praying that one will make a mistake, and Scott Lynch writes it in a way that doesn't make it sound nerdy or stupid just awesome.
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Dec 19, 2012 06:56
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Oh man I want the third book so bad, but I totally understand Lynch taking an extended break to deal with clinical depression. Hey, at least the delay is not because of pizza and football, unlike certain authors who shall remain unnamed.
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Dec 19, 2012 07:47
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I really enjoyed the first book and it's worth reading on its own. But the second book was kind of dull and predictable in all the bad ways. I'm hoping the third book will offer something more along the lines of the first.
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Dec 19, 2012 20:00
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My advice to anyone interested in checking the series out is that the first book owns and nearly all of it stands alone. Read that, and don't read the second book until the third one is finally released, which might be sometime next year but who knows. Opinions on the second book vary drastically, but even people that like it will admit that it pales in comparison to the first (Personally, I enjoyed it though some parts really dragged). Sucks that it has been over 5 years since the last book but it's understandable, depression can do those sorts of things to you. Seconding that it's definitely a better reason for delays than being mopey about your favorite football team losing.
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Dec 19, 2012 21:48
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I mostly liked both books, I certainly don't regret buying them. However, the main thing I disliked about the books was how (spoilers for both books)the protagonists (especially Locke) were supposed to be super-brilliant geniuses who pull off amazing heists and deceptions, but they just fail miserably throughout the books. Sometimes they fail because their enemies are stronger, sometimes due to their own stupid mistakes, but they do fail quite a lot. By the end of the second book there's barely anything left to lose.
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Dec 19, 2012 22:13
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Apoffys posted:I mostly liked both books, I certainly don't regret buying them. However, the main thing I disliked about the books was how (spoilers for both books)the protagonists (especially Locke) were supposed to be super-brilliant geniuses who pull off amazing heists and deceptions, but they just fail miserably throughout the books. Sometimes they fail because their enemies are stronger, sometimes due to their own stupid mistakes, but they do fail quite a lot. By the end of the second book there's barely anything left to lose. Those reasons you point out are exactly why I found the books enthralling.
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Dec 20, 2012 01:10
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This is up there on my list of books to push on people, to whom I sell it as Oceans 11 in a fantastical Venice. My favorite part is Lynch's characterization of wizards as utter bastards, which I think is sorely missing from a lot of other fantasy. drat shame about the second book though - I couldn't even make it to the half-way point. It's also supposed to be a seven-book series, but like the OP says it's unlikely to ever get done. coffeetable fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Dec 20, 2012 |
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Dec 20, 2012 02:01
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Apoffys posted:I mostly liked both books, I certainly don't regret buying them. However, the main thing I disliked about the books was how (spoilers for both books)the protagonists (especially Locke) were supposed to be super-brilliant geniuses who pull off amazing heists and deceptions, but they just fail miserably throughout the books. Sometimes they fail because their enemies are stronger, sometimes due to their own stupid mistakes, but they do fail quite a lot. By the end of the second book there's barely anything left to lose. Your spoilers are what I like about the first book. I read it immediately after the two Patrick Rothfuss books, with the super handsome musical sex ninja magician who is the best in the world at everything he tries and never fails at anything ever, and watching Locke go through hell despite being good at what he does really washed the taste of those lovely books out of my mouth. Been meaning to read the second book, but my wife tells me it's a pretty big letdown.
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Dec 20, 2012 18:01
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I got a quarter of the way through and had to put it down. Not trying to be a negative nancy, and I thought it was good for a debut, but I couldn't do it.
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Dec 20, 2012 18:33
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Sexpansion posted:I got a quarter of the way through and had to put it down. Not trying to be a negative nancy, and I thought it was good for a debut, but I couldn't do it. What didn't you like?
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Dec 20, 2012 18:43
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Benson Cunningham posted:What didn't you like? Workmanlike prose, wavering characterizations, and a lack of affinity for the alterna-Venice Lynch created. Again, I really didn't think it was bad and I've read far, far worse, I just didn't feel like it had enough to offer for me to keep reading it. I'm pretty sure I moved onto David Mitchell's pretty excellent Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet and never looked back.
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Dec 20, 2012 19:52
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boneration posted:Your spoilers are what I like about the first book. I read it immediately after the two Patrick Rothfuss books, with the super handsome musical sex ninja magician who is the best in the world at everything he tries and never fails at anything ever, and watching Locke go through hell despite being good at what he does really washed the taste of those lovely books out of my mouth. I don't know, the second book has a pretty slow chunk in the middle, but if you liked the first book I think you would still enjoy the second one overall.
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Dec 20, 2012 23:41
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The longest con of them all is that there hasn't been a thread for this series.Mr.48 posted:I don't know, the second book has a pretty slow chunk in the middle, but if you liked the first book I think you would still enjoy the second one overall. The entire hook of the second book (adventures on the high seas! piracy! boats and ships!) is the weakest point. He could have cut 2/3 the book and framed his second novel as a series of short-ish stories.
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Dec 21, 2012 01:25
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Normal Adult Human posted:The longest con of them all is that there hasn't been a thread for this series. I think what disappoints most about the second book is that it starts off so well in the Sin Spire. And as so-so as the middle of the book is, I liked the ending of it well enough. I think what bothered me most about it was just how predictable it was.
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Dec 21, 2012 02:50
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The first book has to be one of the best books I've read in the past several years. I too compared it to Ocean's 11 in an awesome Venice-like setting. I also love Lynch's humorous way of writing. I don' think this is much of a spoiler at all, but I hope we finally learn what's up with Sabitha in the 3rd book. Lynch seems to be dangling that as some sort of hook to keep reading, and I was really surprised it wasn't revealed in the second book.
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Dec 22, 2012 03:11
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syphon posted:I don' think this is much of a spoiler at all, but I hope we finally learn what's up with Sabitha in the 3rd book. Lynch seems to be dangling that as some sort of hook to keep reading, and I was really surprised it wasn't revealed in the second book. Haven't read the second book, but this was my biggest problem with the first book. Not revealing her in the contemporary storyline was fine, but the flashbacks must have covered several years and it made her absence kind of weird.
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Dec 22, 2012 10:58
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May the benefactor bless you for making this thread. this series has some of the best dialogue I had the privilege of reading in the fantasy genre, and while "red seas" has its low points, the things that come out of Locke and Jean's mouths not only keeps me reading, but also gives the series some serious reread value. Edit: "nice bird, rear end in a top hat."
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Dec 23, 2012 20:34
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uh zip zoom posted:some of the best dialogue I had the privilege of reading in the fantasy genre True that. I just reread Lies and I still laughed at loud at some of the dialogue. I think my favorite was when Chains is telling Locke about some of his past, when he was in a bad way, and goes something like Locke: But wait...you didn't die! Chains: How clever of you to deduce that on such slim evidence, despite living with me for only three years!  Still haven't read the second book, since it sounded like something of a letdown. I guess I'll go ahead and check it out now, though. Also gotta say, that Lies book cover (on the right, like the copy I have) is incredibly bad. The towers are sorta embossed, and have a holographic shine, and it's just so terrible. What did the book do to deserve that 
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Dec 24, 2012 05:02
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uh zip zoom posted:May the benefactor bless you for making this thread. Yup, just starting to reread the two books now. I enjoyed the second, though it was certainly weaker and at least the giant goddamn poison cliffhanger aaaaah at the end won't make me nearly so cranky now that I've come to terms with the reality of the publishing situation. The dialogue is so, so, good though. I still love the bit with Jean's teacher in Lies: "Those prancing little pants-wetters come here to learn the colorful and gentlemanly art of fencing, with its many sporting limitations and its proscriptions against dishonorable engagements. You on the other hand, you are going to learn how to kill men with a sword." So good.
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Dec 24, 2012 12:07
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Xandu posted:Haven't read the second book, but this was my biggest problem with the first book. Not revealing her in the contemporary storyline was fine, but the flashbacks must have covered several years and it made her absence kind of weird. Its pretty much exactly the same in the second book. Lynch continues to completely dance around the character, never actually having her show up. The thing I didn't like about the second book (other than the cliffhanger ending) was that the scheme turns out fairly boring. It starts out intriguing but by the end when you find out what it was you're just left with that's it? One of my favorite bits from the first book was the great "what makes you think that's my real first name?" scene.
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Dec 24, 2012 18:54
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Loved the first book, hated the second book, hoping for the third to be somewhat in between or closer in theme and spirit to the first.
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Dec 24, 2012 20:56
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I can see not liking the second one as much as the first, but what made you hate it? It seemed exactly the same as the first one to me (as far as characterization and dialogue and the Ocean's 11-style Heist plot) but with a weaker setting.
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Dec 24, 2012 21:54
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Personally, I found the second book's bleakness rather over the top. Locke and Jean are pushed through a whole lot of poo poo, and there just isn't enough room for the light-hearted wordplay and fun-having that was so prevalent in the first book. The dialogue is still snappy and clever and great, but the second book carries a certain undercurrent of hopelessness through it. And that's not at all the tone I'm looking for in a fantasy crime caper novel.
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Dec 24, 2012 23:14
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Apoffys posted:I mostly liked both books, I certainly don't regret buying them. However, the main thing I disliked about the books was how (spoilers for both books)the protagonists (especially Locke) were supposed to be super-brilliant geniuses who pull off amazing heists and deceptions, but they just fail miserably throughout the books. Sometimes they fail because their enemies are stronger, sometimes due to their own stupid mistakes, but they do fail quite a lot. By the end of the second book there's barely anything left to lose. That's what we call a tragic narrative  Both books are fun romps and the second act of a trilogy is always the bleakest. Bleak stuff just doesn't go over well with the genre fiction crowd unless the series starts off gritty Might as well read both books, since we don't know when the third's going to come out.
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Dec 25, 2012 00:30
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MadRhetoric posted:That's what we call a tragic narrative It isn't a trilogy, it has like 7 planned books.
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Dec 25, 2012 02:49
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Blog Free or Die posted:Also gotta say, that Lies book cover (on the right, like the copy I have) is incredibly bad. The towers are sorta embossed, and have a holographic shine, and it's just so terrible. What did the book do to deserve that The better cover: 
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Dec 25, 2012 18:58
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It pains me that I own the right side version of the cover from the first post. I am such a vain rear end in a top hat it almost prevented me from buying the book in the first place. The US gets the worst book covers always. The European style is always more interesting to me. Especially for China Mieville. That said, Red Seas Under Red Skies doesn't have a good cover version that I know of anywhere.
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Dec 25, 2012 19:44
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According to Amazon, the current release date for book 3 is July 2013, and it does finally pull the trigger on the Sabetha plot hook, which is nice. In the meantime you can always read his free online serial fiction, or donate to the fundraiser for his equally awesome writer friends.
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Dec 30, 2012 18:04
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Even though I liked the second one less after reflection there's no way I could say it wasn't a good book or that I disliked it. The way he writes is so soothing to my brain and his ability to just say gently caress it "this major plot point is no longer what the book's about" appeals to me greatly. That's what I loved about Poe's Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket too.
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Dec 30, 2012 19:53
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syphon posted:I can see not liking the second one as much as the first, but what made you hate it? It seemed exactly the same as the first one to me (as far as characterization and dialogue and the Ocean's 11-style Heist plot) but with a weaker setting. Maybe hate is the wrong word, I struggled with it and thoroughly disliked it lets say. I wrote a few rants about it in the general Scifi/Fantasy thread already but basically it felt poorly paced and it seemed like he had no idea where he was going with it, the whole thing was a well written mess. The first book felt pretty tight and I found myself really engrossed by the setting and the framing story. In the second book I lost track of the plot within plot wrappers (which frankly weren't very compelling) and found myself wondering what the point of it all was, particularly after 250 pages of cumbersome pirate antics. I didn't care much for most of the characters introduced in the second book aside from Locke and Jean which was disappointing considering how many there were. Lies flowed really well for me, I devoured it in a weekend. Red Seas took me a long time and I had to basically force myself to finish it. Anyways I have tempered my expectations for the third book and I hope he's resolved some of the issues he was having while writing the second.
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Dec 30, 2012 22:26
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muscles like this? posted:Its pretty much exactly the same in the second book. Lynch continues to completely dance around the character, never actually having her show up. During the beginninng of the first book I just assumed she wasn't actually real and was just a lie kept up for some reason, but as it was never revealed and further I got into it the more impossible it was.
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Dec 31, 2012 14:17
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I thought she was going to be used as some kind of Deus Ex Machina to save them in the second book. Maybe that's what she'll be in the third.
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Dec 31, 2012 22:03
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One posted:I thought she was going to be used as some kind of Deus Ex Machina to save them in the second book. Maybe that's what she'll be in the third. Didn't the books drop hints that she was training to be a Mage? I just thought Lynch wasn't ready to bring out the magic system. As it is, without some retcon, I think he's going to have problems with that. Magic is just too powerful.
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Dec 31, 2012 22:14
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Maybe there's some huge downside that we haven't seen yet. Like every time you do a big spell, you have to sacrifice an orphan, or you lose a chunk of your childhood memories.
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Jan 2, 2013 07:50
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BananaNutkins posted:Didn't the books drop hints that she was training to be a Mage? I just thought Lynch wasn't ready to bring out the magic system. As it is, without some retcon, I think he's going to have problems with that. Magic is just too powerful. I love that about his world. The mages all band together and form a big gently caress you guild, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Locke is a marked man for what he did to the bonds-magi he met for the rest of his life. The part about them going thermonuclear on Karthain was awesome. I imagine 99% of the time the mages do nothing- they just chill out in their guild and collect sickening amounts of money for being alive. It's clear they consider themselves above normal human relationships and politics.
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Jan 2, 2013 08:16
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muscles like this? posted:Its pretty much exactly the same in the second book. Lynch continues to completely dance around the character, never actually having her show up. That's one of my favourite scenes too. I've read the book three times now (and recently finished book two) and I always, always get excited when I know that's coming up. Really, I think this book is almost better the second or third time around because I get ridiculously giddy about the good bits. (And I also don't cry so much at the awful gut-wrenching thing that happens near the end which I'm sure I needn't clarify for those of you that have read it). I'm really curious about who Locke really is. The way Jean reacted to his real name makes me think it must be a name he recognised in some way, which suggests Locke might be related to someone important. I also want to know the full story behind Locke becoming a priest. I think I'm more interested in those two things than I am in Sabetha.
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Jan 14, 2013 11:01
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Blog Free or Die posted:Also gotta say, that Lies book cover (on the right, like the copy I have) is incredibly bad. The towers are sorta embossed, and have a holographic shine, and it's just so terrible. What did the book do to deserve that When me and my girlfriend read the book, she got the really cool cover pixelbaron posted. I got the Gollanzc (sp?) 50th anniversary edition, which is bright yellow with no pictures and the title in hideous loving circus font. Purple circus font.
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Jan 14, 2013 12:37
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Maud Moonshine posted:
Locke-Like-My-Father Lamora.
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Jan 15, 2013 05:46
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Normal Adult Human posted:Locke-Like-My-Father Lamora. But that's not his real name. Unless you're suggesting that his real first name is 'Locke-like-my-father' and just 'Locke' doesn't count. Which would be interesting, and would suggest he didn't have a name at all before he answered the thiefmaker's question. Either way, he also said that's not his real surname though he might have been bluffing since the Falconer assumed that wasn't real. I don't remember off the top of my head who he told that story about the sign he saw too. Either either way, I'm curious about his father who might still be alive for all we know. And that was way, way too many words in response to your post.
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Jan 15, 2013 10:22
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Maud Moonshine posted:
I just finished the second book and I have no idea which scene you're talking about. When was his real name revealed?
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Jan 26, 2013 08:25
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