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Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005

It was for freedom
From myself and from the land


Welcome to the new Spider-Man thread for 2013.

Since the last one got constantly derailed with dumb poo poo i'm putting the ground rules here so nobody has any excuse for being a poo poo poster.

DON'T GIVE OUT ABOUT ONE MORE DAY.
Seriously.

DO NOT IMPORT DRAMA FROM TWITTER, HARASS CREATORS OR OTHER FANS, OR GENERALLY BE A poo poo HEAD.
This thread is for discussing the books and people seem to take creators awkwardly back peddling very seriously rather than just laughing at it. Let the dumb creators fight between themselves and Bleeding Cool.

DOC OCK MAY HOOK UP WITH MARY JANE WHILE IN PETER'S BODY. IS HE A RAPIST?
Currently Marvel refuse to act like adults in regards to this situation and discuss it while BSS/SA currently can't handle this topic maturely or without going into crazy attacks and derails. Let Marvel/Slott/Wacker/Whomever bury themselves. If it's something you aren't comfortable with don't read their books.

THE BOOKS

PREVIOUSLY: Years of getting punched in the head by Super Heroes has left Doc Ock on deaths door. In one last act of villainy he uses a robotic octopus to remotely swaps brain waves and bodies with Peter Parker. Trapped in Ock's body Peter tries to use Ock's tactics against him, creating a faux Sinister Six and releasing a number of villains from The Raft. He sets to fight Ock face to face. Time is against Peter though and Ock's body shuts down before he can return to his own body. Peter dies a villain in front of his family and friends with only Carlie questioning the situation. On Peter's death Doc Ock swears to be a better man, a better scientist, a Superior Spider-Man. Meanwhile in the distance Norman Osborn awakens from a coma, the robotic octopus goes unaccounted for.


THE ONGOING'S

SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN




Writer: Dan Slott
Artist: Ryan Stegman/Various

The Plot: With Peter's memories, body, powers and job Doc Ock plans to make up for a life of always losing. More determined and vicious than Peter Parker ever was he adjusts his costume and dons the mantle of Superior Spider-Man. Expect the book to continue down the Ock as a "hero" line until Peters eventual return.


SCARLET SPIDER



Writer: Christopher Yost
Artist: Khoi Pham/Various

The Plot: Due to the events of Grim Hunt and Spider Island Kaine is no longer disfigured or dying. He has also embraced the powers of The Other and moved to Huston to try and start a new life. The book follows his attempts to adjust to a life of being a hero, the Scarlet Spider, and make up for years of being a jerk.

VENOM



Writer: Cullen Bunn
Artist: Declan Shalvey/ Various

The Plot: Rick Remender destroyed Flash Thompsons life. Crippled from his tour in the army Flash Thompson became Venom for a new lease on life and pair of legs. It doesn't go too well though and he ends up losing everyone he cared for and becomes as much of a monster as a hero. As is the rage for current Spider-Man books Cullen Bunn has come on board and Flash will be moving city to Sunny Philidelphia in an attempt to rebuild his life.

AVENGING SPIDER-MAN



Writer: Christopher Yost
Artist: Various

The Plot: What was to originally be a Joe Mad/Zeb Wells team up book has now become the Superior Spider-Man B book. It's still a team up book but this time Christopher Yost will be teaming the Superior Spider-Man up with regular Marvel heroes to fight returning Spider-Man foes. Expect it to probably be cancelled/shaken up by 2014.

MORBIUS: THE LIVING VAMPIRE



Writer: Joe Keatinge
Artist: Richard Elson

The Plot: Due to Peter Parker's actions The Raft is down a lot of villains, Michael Morbius is one of them. He's not quite a hero, not quite a villain and not quite a vampire. A new ongoing it'll follow Morbius as he sets up shop in New York and tries to build a life for himself and figure out what exactly he is.

THE MINI's

ALPHA: BIG TIME



Writer:Joshua Hale Fialkov
Artist:Nuno Plati

The Plot: Poochie get's his own book. Alpha was introduced in Amazing Spider-Man as the most powerful and eye roll-able hero in the Marvel Universe. More a threat than a help Peter depowered him and everybody hoped he would be forgotten. Doc Ock has other plans though and ALpha returns repowered and possibly less annoying?

MARVEL TEAM UP PRESENTS AVENGING SPIDER-MAN 2: ELEKTRA BOOGALOO



Writer: Zeb Wells
Artist: Joe Mad

The Plot: It exists! Will it be a mini series? Is it a lost Avenging arc? Will it come out before 2015? Nobody knows. It's Spider-Man teaming up with Elektra. It's Zeb Wells and Joe Mad, it'll probably be great.

Waterhaul fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2013 around 14:31

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Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005

It was for freedom
From myself and from the land


On top of the thread rules please remember it's comics! Have fun, don't read or buy books you hate and don't take things personally.

Also try out Morbius because it's by Joe Keatinge who is killing it on Glory and I want to see him do more Marvel books or possibly rope Ross Campbell in to an arc.

Waterhaul fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2013 around 17:48

Cassa
Jan 29, 2009


Scarlet Spider is great and everyone should consider picking that up instead of The Superior Spocto-man.

Little Mac
Jan 3, 2006

It's a mystery.
Broken into a jigsaw puzzle.
Wrapped in a conundrum.
Hidden in a Chinese box.

A riddle.


UMMMMMM ACTUALLY Morbius is the only guy, aside from Pete, to actually escape during Peter's breakout.


But really, I hope Avenging doesn't go anywhere, and I hope Venom gets better. I'm glad Scarlet Spider is quality, though.

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

'sup?


A not for those who do not know: Both Scarlet Spider and Venom are better written and more than Slott's book. If you are upset with the turn of events in "Peter's" life and not buying one or both of these books, stop bitching about bad comics and buy these here good ones!

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

Everything's coming up Paz!

I just realized we have 3 darker, more brutal Spider-men running around while Peter's 'dead'. We just need a 616 Miles Morales and it's straight up Reign of the Spider-men in here.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Lurdiak posted:

I just realized we have 3 darker, more brutal Spider-men running around while Peter's 'dead'. We just need a 616 Miles Morales and it's straight up Reign of the Spider-men in here.

We don't even need that.

- Supervillain accepted as the "true" Spider-Man because he takes his form.
- Guy who looks exactly like Peter Parker, but is far colder with a more violent idea of what justice should be.
- Annoying teenage poo poo.
- Guy who idolizes Spider-Man and uses a costume to imitate his powers. And, you know, he's "Black Spider-Man".

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


I found Amazing #699.1 to really terrible but I'll still thumb through Morbius #1. Not expecting much out of it.

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005

It was for freedom
From myself and from the land


Rhyno posted:

I found Amazing #699.1 to really terrible but I'll still thumb through Morbius #1. Not expecting much out of it.

What was wrong with it?

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


Waterhaul posted:

What was wrong with it?

Pacing, plot, art, also having never liked Morbius as a character.

Adam Strange
Oct 11, 2012

He laughs. The line goes dead.

That Zeb Wells/Joe Mad thing is gonna be so cool if it ever comes out.

BodyMassageMachine
Nov 24, 2006

If you can't take the Slyde, stay outta the Slyde kitchen!

Despite my avatar, I haven't read a Spider-Man book in years (I think the last arc I actually read through was something during Civil War, maybe after when he donned the movie-tie-in black suit). I heard what was going on with Doc Ock taking over Peter's body and decided to pick it up. Definitely pretty interesting and cool to see the villain "win" (for now). I'll be keeping an eye on Superior (and Venom too, but that's just because I want to see how a major character in Philly plays out).

Also, maybe it's just the art style, but Alpha looks and seems like an absolutely annoying character. Having never read anything with him in it, am I accurate in thinking that of him?

notthegoatseguy
Sep 6, 2005
I'm a petty asshole

^^^ He is purposely written to be an annoying shithead.

Rhyno posted:

Pacing, plot, art, also having never liked Morbius as a character.

I've never like Morbius either as a Spider-Man character in a Spider-Man book, though much of it might be nerd-rage about how much time he took up in the Spider-Man 90s show even though, by that point in the actual comics, he'd appeared in maybe about a dozen total individual issues in Spider-Man comics.

He works great in the occult/magic/vampire realm. I've read some good stuff with him in there. But in Spider-Man's world, he just doesn't seem to fit.

notthegoatseguy fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2013 around 21:01

101
Oct 15, 2012


Vault Dweller


BodyMassageMachine posted:

Also, maybe it's just the art style, but Alpha looks and seems like an absolutely annoying character. Having never read anything with him in it, am I accurate in thinking that of him?

You are absolutely correct in thinking that.

bbf2
Nov 22, 2007

"The White Shadow"

notthegoatseguy posted:

I've never like Morbius either as a Spider-Man character in a Spider-Man book, though much of it might be nerd-rage about how much time he took up in the Spider-Man 90s show even though, by that point in the actual comics, he'd appeared in maybe about a dozen total individual issues in Spider-Man comics.

What, you didn't like the sucker hands and "MUST HAVE PLASMA!"?

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Make the posts!
Make the posts!


Gavok posted:

We don't even need that.

- Supervillain accepted as the "true" Spider-Man because he takes his form.
- Guy who looks exactly like Peter Parker, but is far colder with a more violent idea of what justice should be.
- Annoying teenage poo poo.

- Guy who idolizes Spider-Man and uses a costume to imitate his powers. And, you know, he's "Black Spider-Man".

I guess you're talking about Alpha, but he's not wearing a leather jacket with a spider symbol on it while demanding to be called Spider-Man so we're not all the way to Reign of the Spider-Men yet.

Manwithastick
Jul 26, 2010



Can somebody give me an abridged version of the "the other" thing? I remember spiderman was evolving once was it tied to that?

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.


notthegoatseguy posted:

He works great in the occult/magic/vampire realm. I've read some good stuff with him in there. But in Spider-Man's world, he just doesn't seem to fit.

That's interesting. I've always felt the opposite, because he's not a real vampire. I like Morbius in a science-oriented story.

SirDan3k
Jan 6, 2001

Trust me, you are taking this a lot more seriously then I am.


bbf2 posted:

What, you didn't like the sucker hands and "MUST HAVE PLASMA!"?

Somebody brought it up in the last thread but the sucker hands were awesome and would be awesome on Morbius because it'd set him apart from other vampires and make him more dangerous since he could drain your blood just by grabbing you.

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005

It was for freedom
From myself and from the land


Manwithastick posted:

Can somebody give me an abridged version of the "the other" thing? I remember spiderman was evolving once was it tied to that?

JMS tried to retcon it such Peter got his powers from a mystical spider which specifically chose Peter due to ~destiny~. It also tried to retcon it such that Peters villains also specifically chose him as they were inspired by animals which were enemies of spiders. This culminated in a new dude Morlun showing up (he was effectively a mystical eating vampire) and beating Peter within an inch of his life, mutilating him and trying to absorb his magical spider essence as it is Morlun's destiny to kill Peter.

Peter manages to escape from Morlun and cocoons himself in webbing. There he has a weird dream and gives in to the Spider magic side and gains new powers (advanced spider sticking, advanced spider-sense, wrist spikes) and kills Morlun.

For the most part everybody ignored this until Spider-Island which retconned it such that the spider magic stuff was true and just about Kaine and not Peter.

Dacap
Jul 8, 2008

ME BOSS
YOU NOT


Waterhaul posted:

JMS tried to retcon it such Peter got his powers from a mystical spider which specifically chose Peter due to ~destiny~. It also tried to retcon it such that Peters villains also specifically chose him as they were inspired by animals which were enemies of spiders.


That is a terrible rationalization. Other than Scorpion and maybe Lizard I can't really think of any of his other animal villains that are predators of spiders. Rhinos and Octopi don't particularly come to mind when you think of natural spider enemies.

Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006



Dacap posted:

That is a terrible rationalization. Other than Scorpion and maybe Lizard I can't really think of any of his other animal villains that are predators of spiders. Rhinos and Octopi don't particularly come to mind when you think of natural spider enemies.

No, Waterhaul got that detail wrong. JMS/the whole Morlun arc established that all of Peter's foes are animal-based, and that their hostility towards Spider-Man was a mystical subconscious jealousy of Pete actually being chosen by the spider totem god while the villains force upon themselves their totemistic roles.

notthegoatseguy
Sep 6, 2005
I'm a petty asshole

Dacap posted:

That is a terrible rationalization. Other than Scorpion and maybe Lizard I can't really think of any of his other animal villains that are predators of spiders. Rhinos and Octopi don't particularly come to mind when you think of natural spider enemies.

The way JMS' character, Ezekiel, explains it, those animals are predators and that's what counted. Not necessarily predators of Spiders.

I enjoyed JMS' run up until Sins' Past, and even that had a sub-plot going where JMS' buddy-cop character was set to learn Peter's identity. But where it really went off the rails was The Other. Up until then, the theory that Peter was tied into some mystical force was just that, a theory and an interesting one. Hell, Peter being "destined" for these powers isn't even a new concept. Or at least that he handled these powers in a much more moral and correct way than everyone else. A very early What-If gave a bunch of characters the Spider-bite instead and they almost all continue to use it for selfish purposes. I think Flash even became a flat-out supervillain.

Just like how the supersoldier serum only seems to work specifically on Steve Rogers, the Spider-bite really only works correctly on Peter Parker and Miles.

To the other poster: All you really need to know about "The Other" is that between Howard/Mackie's reboot era and the BND era, there were two stories that ultimately gave Peter enhanced powers. One, written by Paul Jenkins (who had a really good run, just with some questionable art choices), gave him organic webs and the ability to talk to spiders which was never fuckiang used. Another, written by JMS and the other two ongoing Spider-title writers at the time, gave him retractable claws that came from his wrists that he can't quite seem to summon or withdraw conciously, enhanced strength, enhanced Spider-sense and some advanced sticking to walls and whatnot.

While no writer has directly addressed the lack of use of these powers since that story, most of them only saw minimal use outside of the organic webs. Peter has addressed the fact that he's had organic webs before, and even gave Carlie Cooper some advice on "eat lots of carbs" when she had organic webbing during Spider-Island, but it's probably the biggest plothole the BND-era writers never dealt with as to why Peter went back to synthetic webs.

notthegoatseguy fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2013 around 22:51

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


notthegoatseguy posted:

A very early What-If gave a bunch of characters the Spider-bite instead and they almost all continue to use it for selfish purposes. I think Flash even became a flat-out supervillain.

Yes and no. In that early issue, they all used their powers for good, but all failed for one reason or another. Flash (whose Uncle Ben moment was accidentally killing Crusher Hogan in the ring) focused completely on strength, so when Vulture dropped him from high up, he could only fall to his death. Betty had the webs (built by Peter), but when she was out of them and the burglar passed by, she couldn't bring herself to attack him and Uncle Ben's eventual death led to her giving it up out of shame. Then John Jameson used a jetpack as part of his gimmick and ended up dying heroically. The end of the issue shows that in all three stories, Peter would study the dead spider, inject himself with the radioactive venom and turn himself into Spider-Man.

They did "Flash as Spider-Man" again in the 90's, only this time Flash was a total criminal and Peter went all gadgets-and-prep-time to stop him. Fittingly enough for the present, the issue ended with Peter fighting crime as a quasi-Doc Ock.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

notthegoatseguy posted:

The way JMS' character, Ezekiel, explains it, those animals are predators and that's what counted.
Rhinos aren't predators .

Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Look, one way or another, you're leaving this place covered in semen. Might as well have some fun.

DynamicSloth posted:

Rhinos aren't predators .

I don't remember the predator thing. I think Calaveron got it right.

Also, random question since I didn't read Spider Island - where did Kaine's current costume come from?

Chinaman7000
Nov 28, 2003



I actually liked the JMS and Other stuff. Not all of it. But a lot of it was interesting. Ezekiel as an older Spider-mentor, Peter developing new uses for his powers, and the brutal beating he took. There was a desperation in the story that worked well for me.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Watch that tongue... sticky!


I think the mystical stuff worked when it was first introduced.

In the original story the villain was like "you have mystical powers, I must feed," but the eventual end result was that Peter killed him due to his radioactivity being a factor in the entire thing. He went "Maybe it was magical, maybe it was radioactivity, does it really matter?" and left it there. That was a good way to handle it.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


ImpAtom posted:

I think the mystical stuff worked when it was first introduced.

In the original story the villain was like "you have mystical powers, I must feed," but the eventual end result was that Peter killed him due to his radioactivity being a factor in the entire thing. He went "Maybe it was magical, maybe it was radioactivity, does it really matter?" and left it there. That was a good way to handle it.

Yeah, Peter never really bought into what Ezekiel was saying in the original story and that's why it was so good. I want that JMS back.

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Nightmare fuel


Didn't the Spider-God also pick Peter because of his Super Saiyan rage potential?

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Make the posts!
Make the posts!


Boxman posted:

Also, random question since I didn't read Spider Island - where did Kaine's current costume come from?

Don't know how long you were reading ASM before Spider-Island so I'll just go cover everything. For a while before Spider-Island, Peter lost his spider-sense and Slott had him make a bunch of new suits for specialized purposes (for example, I believe the first one he made was a bulletproof one after he got shot up). One of the suits was a stealth suit that turned invisible and had another mode that shut out sound in order to combat Hobgoblin's sonic laugh. At the end of Spider-Island, when Kaine needed a suit, Peter gave him the stealth suit and Kaine took off with it.

Since Kaine took it to his own series, the costume got a (totally unexplained) redesign and a little bit of a tweak in powers (it now has a bullshit auto-repair function to explain how the costume can get torn up and repaired between issues despite Kaine not being a genius or having access to a super science lab).

TwoPair fucked around with this message at Jan 2, 2013 around 05:29

Madrox
Jan 31, 2001

Does whatever
a multiple can.


I've only flipped through 700, so I'm probably wrong, but wasn't Pete's consciousness in the gold octobot? It seemed like when it attempted to spike Peter's body in the neck (and was denied by the armor Ock had put in place), that Peter's voice-bubble was shown coming from the bot, not Ock's body. If that's the case, but the bot is unaccounted for, isn't he basically alive but in a robot body? I'm probably wrong about the voice-bubble thing, since I haven't seen anyone else mention it. Otherwise, it seemed like a pretty obvious path for Peter to come back later.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Some things you can't
put into words, man.


TwoPair posted:

Don't know how long you were reading ASM before Spider-Island so I'll just go cover everything. For a while before Spider-Island, Peter lost his spider-sense and Slott had him make a bunch of new suits for specialized purposes (for example, I believe the first one he made was a bulletproof one after he got shot up). One of the suits was a stealth suit that turned invisible and had another mode that shut out sound in order to combat Hobgoblin's sonic laugh. At the end of Spider-Island, when Kaine needed a suit, Peter gave him the stealth suit and Kaine took off with it.

Since Kaine took it to his own series, the costume got a (totally unexplained) redesign and a little bit of a tweak in powers (it now has a bullshit auto-repair function to explain how the costume can get torn up and repaired between issues despite Kaine not being a genius or having access to a super science lab).

Kaine is every bit as smart as Peter was at the moment the Jackal took the cells he used to make him. He may not have had the complete education but he's still really loving smart.

RandallODim
Dec 30, 2010

He presumably spends
his time traveling the world, annihilating any rapper foolish enough to challenge him


Rhyno posted:

Kaine is every bit as smart as Peter was at the moment the Jackal took the cells he used to make him. He may not have had the complete education but he's still really loving smart.

He is also an incredible lightweight. It's kind of adorable. If it hasn't been said enough, Scarlet Spider is really good.

ladyboy pancake
Jan 3, 2008

"Please let this be a normal field trip?"



I really like the idea of the mystical element of Spider-Man, because let's face it, intentional or not, there is significance to the fact that most of his enemies are themed around animals, and it was a sharp way for JMS to bring that to the story's attention. It also makes Spidey a three-way overlap in the Venn Diagram of common superpower sources: mutation, technology, and magic, which I like as well. Unfortunately, from what I understand, there has never been a good story told around it.

I like to think that it's there, but it doesn't really affect anything any more than it already did.

Suben
Jul 1, 2007

In 1985 Dr. Strange makes a rap album.


I'm willing to give Morbius a shot just because it's Marvel actually taking a chance on a book/character with a writer that people seem high on and not just a safe deal of some Avengers spinoff made to appeal to people who like the movies but are never going to touch a comic. Alpha getting a mini is lame but again, with Fialkov on board and the fact people everywhere (well here) sing the praises of I, Vampire which he's the writer of I'll give it a shot too.

RandallODim posted:

He is also an incredible lightweight. It's kind of adorable. If it hasn't been said enough, Scarlet Spider is really good.

It also has the best supporting character:



I mean Donald and Wally and Annabelle are all fine too but Aracely pretty much steals every single scene she's in.

Cassa
Jan 29, 2009


Aracely is the best.



Other supporting arguments that Scarlet Spider deserves your money.

LordPants
Mar 5, 2011

Four more years boys, four more years.


The first issue with Kaine going "I'm not a hero, I'm going to Mexico!" while the Spider Suit is just in the background nagging at him was really great.

Genetic Toaster
Jun 5, 2011

bound for chillax 2013


Pitching in to say that this thread and the last one made me read Scarlet Spider.

Thanks guys, Hawkeye has competition for my favourite Marvel book now.

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Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006



Lobok posted:

Didn't the Spider-God also pick Peter because of his Super Saiyan rage potential?

Sort of. Peter had been a victim all his life, and who better to be a hunter than someone who can get into the mindset of the hunted.

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