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I'm a big fan of new players starting as Germany. You set the pace of the war, you have enough resources to gently caress up a bit, and you have a good progression of wars from Poland to France to the USSR.
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# ? May 26, 2015 23:34 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 20:37 |
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Setting the pace of the war is not always the best thing for a new player though. You will end up constantly worrying if you built enough troops, if your front is looking ok, if you should declare war now or wait for the next wave of troops. USA might be a better testing ground; another two years of prep time, a Pacific front to teach you naval combat,
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# ? May 26, 2015 23:44 |
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YF-23 posted:It's not like WW2 doesn't have replayability though. Any of the majors fit into the scenario significantly differently enough that playing as a different one is not re-fighting the same war. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 23:59 on May 26, 2015 |
# ? May 26, 2015 23:56 |
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YF-23 posted:Setting the pace of the war is not always the best thing for a new player though. You will end up constantly worrying if you built enough troops, if your front is looking ok, if you should declare war now or wait for the next wave of troops. Plus in HoI3 the US doesn't have an ungodly huge military at the start that you have to reorganize like, say, Japan or the Soviet Union I know it's historically accurate but Japan's starting OoB in HoI 3 was such a mess and seemingly designed to make sure you wouldn't get any bonuses from properly utilizing the command structure unless you literally reorganized the ENTIRE Kwantung army from scratch.
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# ? May 27, 2015 00:19 |
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Here's a scenario that you can fudge your own way for a new, exciting WWII Cohesive US, but with communists being dickheads Communist Mexico after revolution (Maybe keep Veracruz occupied) Japan is a neutral dictatorship that's letting the chips fall Eastern Europe is a series of fascist-like states Western Europe is ignoring what Hitler is doing Fun times in India Soviet Union stronger for some abject reason (Trotsky?) Pro-USSR Republican Spain That way it becomes less of a generic Allies v Axis and more of a power play to see which side the communists see fit
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# ? May 27, 2015 01:41 |
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Nitrousoxide posted:Without the US there though WW1 would have ended substantially differently. Without the lend/lease support of the US the allies would not have been able to hold out as long as they did, and Russia would have collapsed at lot earlier. With Russia falling maybe a year earlier Germany probably would have crushed Italy and France before they suffered their own collapse. lmao what
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# ? May 27, 2015 02:21 |
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They sold a lot of poo poo to the Entente.
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# ? May 27, 2015 02:26 |
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That's a pretty far cry from lend-lease though.
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# ? May 27, 2015 02:26 |
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Top Hats Monthly posted:
Hahaha, but seriously folks...
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# ? May 27, 2015 02:27 |
BBJoey posted:lmao what Well, more lending really. The center of commerce in the world shifted from London to New York in WW1 and the allies racked up huge balances with private lenders in the US that they were still paying off 10 years ago. US grain was one of the big reasons why the Allies (well, except for the Russians) weren't starving like the Germans.
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# ? May 27, 2015 02:29 |
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I asked this earlier and got no response, but now that we're back to HoI/DH talk, I'll ask again: does anyone know what changes to the DH settings ini file to make to make the upgrade/reinforcement sliders better?
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# ? May 27, 2015 02:29 |
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Hahaha, but seriously folks... Nobody said realistic!!
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# ? May 27, 2015 02:32 |
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Bort Bortles posted:This is true, but between all of the HoI games/other videogames plus boardgames I have played all the scenarios in one way or another over and over and over again....I've played HoI3 as Germany many times; Italy, Japan, Russia, Brazil, Nat China, USA USA USA a couple times each (not always to completion). I've even made my own WWII era boardgame (it is a "free setup" game where you pick an archetype and build your nation from the ground up) because I love the era so much. I may be outlier but playing games about the bog standard WWII is getting old. I'm all for alt. history, though I think from Paradox Games perspective it makes the most sense to polish the core game and scenario, and leave other scenarios for expansions ala Sunset Invasion or of course mods. Also, that boardgame you mentioned making sounds really interesting! Is it something you can show off with a link to the mechanics or some such?
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# ? May 27, 2015 02:43 |
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SoggyBobcat posted:I asked this earlier and got no response, but now that we're back to HoI/DH talk, I'll ask again: does anyone know what changes to the DH settings ini file to make to make the upgrade/reinforcement sliders better? This is just me, but I like to set the reinforcement to upgrade ratio to 1.
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# ? May 27, 2015 04:57 |
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BBJoey posted:lmao what Nitrousoxide posted:Well, more lending really. The center of commerce in the world shifted from London to New York in WW1 and the allies racked up huge balances with private lenders in the US that they were still paying off 10 years ago. US grain was one of the big reasons why the Allies (well, except for the Russians) weren't starving like the Germans. The US playing this role is what basically propelled them to being the industrial leaders of the western world in the wake of WW1. Combined with the embargo, this worked brutally effectively - the Entente was so much better-supplied by the end of the war that they could have simply waited a few more years and Germany would literally have starved back to pastoralism. In the last year of the war, famine and disease alone effectively halved German combat numbers - and that was after the Turnip Winter of '16-17 wreaked havoc on Germany. By the end of the war, the German army was more than half-starved, stumbling backward, dressed in rags.
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# ? May 27, 2015 05:23 |
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Nitrousoxide posted:Without the US there though WW1 would have ended substantially differently. Without the lend/lease support of the US the allies would not have been able to hold out as long as they did, and Russia would have collapsed at lot earlier. With Russia falling maybe a year earlier Germany probably would have crushed Italy and France before they suffered their own collapse. If you're going to go back that far, World War 1 wouldn't have looked anything like it did, and indeed all of Western Europe would have been markedly different if they hadn't had the wealth of American colonial trade to bootstrap their previously backwater empires. Unless the world was in fact as small as Colombus thought it would, in which case you get even more butterflies going as Spanish explorers run straight into China and the Indies. Basically if we're going to postulate a WW2 without America it's probably best to ignore what came before unless you want to completely alt-history it up.
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# ? May 27, 2015 06:51 |
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Europe, and the world more generally, would look entirely different without the discovery of the Americas.
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# ? May 27, 2015 07:03 |
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I for one would just like a multiplayer scenario that is basically a sandbox. No alliances at game start, full IC/techteam takeover, no restrictions on DoW, go hogwild. Might have to rebalance the starting forces a little.
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# ? May 27, 2015 07:26 |
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ArchangeI posted:I for one would just like a multiplayer scenario that is basically a sandbox. No alliances at game start, full IC/techteam takeover, no restrictions on DoW, go hogwild. Might have to rebalance the starting forces a little. They did that, it was HOI2: Armageddon
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# ? May 27, 2015 07:27 |
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Phlegmish posted:Europe, and the world more generally, would look entirely different without the discovery of the Americas. No baseball. No apple pie. gently caress it, let Hitler win at that point
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# ? May 27, 2015 07:30 |
Raskolnikov38 posted:They did that, it was HOI2: Armageddon Was Armageddon ever as fun in multiplayer as it looked? Those were back in the days when Paradox's netcode was basically unplayable (I only ever got one HoI2 game to work in multiplayer over Hamachi and it died after like 20 minutes).
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# ? May 27, 2015 07:43 |
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Phlegmish posted:Europe, and the world more generally, would look entirely different without the discovery of the Americas. Without England's deep pockets from colonialisation and the resulting trade it seems very likely nobody would be strong enough to challenge France's domination of Europe.
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# ? May 27, 2015 10:47 |
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ThaumPenguin posted:Wasn't there a National Focus for Germany to go democratic? That'd change things up. No, that was in the older Goals system which was ripped out and replaced with Focuses. Technically Germany could still go Democratic, but only by appointing a Democratic reformer and waiting for support to tick up until a coup/gov change/civil war happens - it's not a defined path that the AI would pick. They do have a somewhat peaceful "Build a big navy and befriend Scandinavia/Low countries" Focus path, but they remain Fascist outside of player shenanigans.
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# ? May 27, 2015 11:11 |
Riso posted:Without England's deep pockets from colonialisation and the resulting trade it seems very likely nobody would be strong enough to challenge France's domination of Europe. But the Iberians would have become filthy rich by exploiting/trading with Asia, after discovering the sea route while on the other hand the influence of Italian city states would have diminished much faster. Depending on how much this would have strengthened Spain's position it is possible to envisage a decisive victory of the Catholic League in the 30year war, with Habsburg supremacy secured in continental Europe for quite some time. Edit: It's probably also important to look at the Ottoman Empire and how the decrease in trade profits would have diminished their strength, which would have further strengthened the Habsburgs.
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# ? May 27, 2015 12:00 |
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Guys I don't think "what would the effect be of simply wiping America off the map" needs to be examined much deeper than "it'd shake up the balance of power in a WW2 showdown to make for a more interesting scenario" I mean, that's basically what Kaiserreich already does a bunch of times over.
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# ? May 27, 2015 12:14 |
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So, here's a question - how many of you guys remember the Crete LP Wiz did back in the day? Well, seeing as the LP never got archived properly because nobody was willing to sit down and do session summaries for every single goddamn Senate session, I thought perhaps it might bring the LP slightly closer to being archived if the various people involved in the LP instead wrote a few overarching histories on the bits of Crete that they thought important and interesting, as opposed to trying for a highly detailed record of literally everything that went on. Figured that if a couple of Senate members did that and then had that stuck in the LP Archive with the updates themselves, you'd probably end up giving newcomers with something of an idea of the kind of shenanigans that went on behind the updates. And as I managed to scrape together some spare time to have a whack at things, I therefore present my own contribution to maybe someday archiving Crete properly: A Brief History of Populism. (I'd have done this in Wiz's "Islam is the Light" LP instead, but apparently that fell into the archives, so apologies to anyone here who doesn't give a drat about Crete.)
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# ? May 27, 2015 15:28 |
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Oh, yes, Crete. I always did kind of want to write my own history of how things really went down, but then after that ended I kinda felt like I had already written more than enough words about Populism. Plus that's already a pretty nice 14-page essay about Populism right there (not that I've read through it yet), so whatever I have to say might be redundant. ...But it's not out of the question. I'm pretty sure that any person involved big-time in that LP really loves to hear themselves talk about pretend greek politics. (Though I'm not sure if I would want to try to tell the Real Story, or an incredibly Pro-Populist 'Real Story') e: I really do appreciate that you took the care to properly capitalize The People Takanago fucked around with this message at 15:48 on May 27, 2015 |
# ? May 27, 2015 15:41 |
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I get so jelly when people talk about Crete, I feel like I really missed out on something amazing...
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# ? May 27, 2015 15:45 |
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Takanago posted:Oh, yes, Crete. Funny that you should be the first person to respond - I'm pretty sure you're the only senator I ever mentioned by name (mostly because I wanted to avoid singling people out for whatever reason, but you were the guy who invented the idea of The People, so...) Edit: Groogy posted:I get so jelly when people talk about Crete, I feel like I really missed out on something amazing... An amazing amount of people screaming at each other over the fate of pixelmen, some of whom weren't even properly represented in the game, yes. Tomn fucked around with this message at 15:52 on May 27, 2015 |
# ? May 27, 2015 15:49 |
I'm pretty sure there's some academic research you could do on the Crete LP and political processes and arguments, and how people approach them. The same way the Aurora LP has interesting parallels to actual bureaucracies, there's something in Crete about how political decisions, consensus ( or lack of it), and arguments happen, and how easily you get chaos and partisanship.
Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 16:04 on May 27, 2015 |
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# ? May 27, 2015 16:00 |
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Tomn posted:Funny that you should be the first person to respond - I'm pretty sure you're the only senator I ever mentioned by name (mostly because I wanted to avoid singling people out for whatever reason, but you were the guy who invented the idea of The People, so...) Why yes I guess I'll accept the honor of being History's Most Important Populist. (But really, other people did do a lot of important work for Populism and there was a lot more than me at work there. Wouldn't have worked so well without Gorgo's radicalism to point at so I could be a moderate.) Anyway, this is a pretty cool read so far. If I don't feel lazy when I'm done looking at it, I'll maybe write a follow-up or a rebuttal or something. Tomn posted:An amazing amount of people screaming at each other over the fate of pixelmen, some of whom weren't even properly represented in the game, yes. Yeah, there were times where that thread got pretty bad. Still a good time overall, though.
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# ? May 27, 2015 16:01 |
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Takanago posted:(But really, other people did do a lot of important work for Populism and there was a lot more than me at work there. Wouldn't have worked so well without Gorgo's radicalism to point at so I could be a moderate.) Yeah, that's true - there were a lot of subtle interplays like that which I skipped over, but this is supposed to be a brief history of Populism, and at 14 pages we're already pushing it a bit. Maybe someone else could do a more involved look at things, like yourself, or perhaps a brief biographical sketch of the careers of the more prominent senators in Crete. I'd read that. (Also, let me know when you get to the shameless self-promotion)
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# ? May 27, 2015 16:07 |
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CatsPajamas posted:Also, that boardgame you mentioned making sounds really interesting! Is it something you can show off with a link to the mechanics or some such?
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# ? May 27, 2015 18:09 |
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nothing to seehere posted:I'm pretty sure there's some academic research you could do on the Crete LP and political processes and arguments, and how people approach them. The same way the Aurora LP has interesting parallels to actual bureaucracies, there's something in Crete about how political decisions, consensus ( or lack of it), and arguments happen, and how easily you get chaos and partisanship. The Aurora LP is amazing for that, everyone's desperate to get the resources they need for their projects and resources, so poor Grey Hunter is mostly concerned with allocating and adjusting production percentages and riding herd on debates about whether we should devote 33% or 34% of industrial capacity to building a new shipyard or whatever.
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# ? May 27, 2015 19:00 |
Mister Adequate posted:The Aurora LP is amazing for that, everyone's desperate to get the resources they need for their projects and resources, so poor Grey Hunter is mostly concerned with allocating and adjusting production percentages and riding herd on debates about whether we should devote 33% or 34% of industrial capacity to building a new shipyard or whatever. Oh man, if Grey Hunter were the one running the Aurora LP, I'm like 95% certain that half of the colonies would have been obliterated by mass driver mineral packets because he forgot to build drivers on the receiving ends. <3 u grey
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# ? May 27, 2015 19:09 |
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Drone posted:Oh man, if Grey Hunter were the one running the Aurora LP, I'm like 95% certain that half of the colonies would have been obliterated by mass driver mineral packets because he forgot to build drivers on the receiving ends. Holy poo poo why did I think it was Grey Hunter? Sorry about that bgreman
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# ? May 27, 2015 19:33 |
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Riso posted:Without England's deep pockets from colonialisation and the resulting trade it seems very likely nobody would be strong enough to challenge France's domination of Europe. GaussianCopula posted:But the Iberians would have become filthy rich by exploiting/trading with Asia, after discovering the sea route while on the other hand the influence of Italian city states would have diminished much faster. Depending on how much this would have strengthened Spain's position it is possible to envisage a decisive victory of the Catholic League in the 30year war, with Habsburg supremacy secured in continental Europe for quite some time.
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# ? May 27, 2015 22:36 |
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Aurora is one game in definite need of a Paradox-esque UI overhaul. Its a fantastic idea and experience thats just marred by the engine it was built on and the UI of nightmares, though that was likely a necessity of the lone soul that put all the work in. It really needs a sequel, but theres already been 2000 attempts at that.
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# ? May 27, 2015 22:36 |
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Drone posted:Was Armageddon ever as fun in multiplayer as it looked? Those were back in the days when Paradox's netcode was basically unplayable (I only ever got one HoI2 game to work in multiplayer over Hamachi and it died after like 20 minutes). Kind of, it didn't have too many desyncing issue because there weren't any events, but it wasn't really balanced well and playing against one person who was really good would ruin everyones poo poo by teching aircraft carriers to hell and back. But fun, like a more detailed mid-game risk where everyone has kind of blobbed up.
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# ? May 28, 2015 15:53 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 20:37 |
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GaussianCopula posted:But the Iberians would have become filthy rich by exploiting/trading with Asia, after discovering the sea route while on the other hand the influence of Italian city states would have diminished much faster. Depending on how much this would have strengthened Spain's position it is possible to envisage a decisive victory of the Catholic League in the 30year war, with Habsburg supremacy secured in continental Europe for quite some time. While the wealth coming from India and Malacca was super sweet it was absolutely nothing compared to just how much wealth you could have by sucking America dry. It was effectively a world where you could step in and kill all the locals and replace them with slaves to extract the unimaginable riches from. How would the Habsburgs survive without all that gold? The Fuggers couldn't finance them all by themselves! Plus, what are we speaking of when we say "no American continent"? Are thinking of a earth much smaller than ours or the exact same planet but just without that massive piece of land between Asia and Europe\Africa? You know how the Portuguese discovered Brasil due to the natural way the winds blew them that way? Without Brasil there the winds would blow the Portuguese to nothing. Colombus would sail and die stuck in the middle of a gargantuan expanse of water. That area of the world would be pratically impossible to cross, how are you going to carry a Galleon full of spices when a Galleon full of water and food would still struggle to cross that expanse?
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# ? May 28, 2015 16:58 |