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I didn't even remember that Luca Blight had a sister!!!!! I remembered him very well, though!!!!!!!!!!! Hoo hoo hah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was the true face of evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sep 9, 2014 00:46
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alcharagia posted:I didn't even remember that Luca Blight had a sister!!!!! I remembered him very well, though!!!!!!!!!!! Hoo hoo hah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was the true face of evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, there is also another fan theory about that crazy psycho and a certain important character of Suikoden III....
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Sep 9, 2014 20:59
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Guy Fawkes posted:Well, there is also another fan theory about that crazy psycho and a certain important character of Suikoden III.... Now that one is a real stretch.
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Sep 9, 2014 22:27
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Fister Roboto posted:Now that one is a real stretch. Wait, does it concern the parentage of one of the characters? Cause if so then what the hell, I'll believe it. Everything and everyone is related to each other some way or another in Japanese games. Just look at the Metal Gear Solid series.
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Sep 9, 2014 23:02
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alcharagia posted:I didn't even remember that Luca Blight had a sister!!!!! I remembered him very well, though!!!!!!!!!!! Hoo hoo hah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was the true face of evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just as a reminder, all the exclamation points!!!!! were actually in the Japanese version!!!!!! of Suikoden 2!!!!! I honestly always thought they were part of the localization, but... nope! (!!!!)
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Sep 10, 2014 01:00
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Nephrite posted:Just as a reminder, all the exclamation points!!!!! were actually in the Japanese version!!!!!! of Suikoden 2!!!!! I had no idea!!!! Suikoden 2 was goofy!!!!!!!! Hoo hoo hah!!!!!!!!!!!! Die pig!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sep 10, 2014 01:10
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Identification?!!!! My face is my identification!!!! Let's use my "good trick"!!!!Strayed posted:Wait, does it concern the parentage of one of the characters? Cause if so then what the hell, I'll believe it. Everything and everyone is related to each other some way or another in Japanese games. Just look at the Metal Gear Solid series. I'm glad Suikoden actually managed to avoid that to some extent. Obviously each game has some cast connections to the previous games, but there are usually way more new characters in each batch of 108 stars than there are returning faces or ancestors and descendants. That's one reason why I have problems getting into expanded universe fiction; so many authors have the same bad habit of connecting too many dots that never needed to be connected, which always results in the universe feeling smaller rather than larger.
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Sep 10, 2014 01:13
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Well, if we're talking crazy fan theories, what about the theory that Hugo (Suikoden I) was the secret father of Hugo (Suikoden III)? I know I saw that one a few times.
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Sep 10, 2014 02:38
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Verant posted:Well, if we're talking crazy fan theories, what about the theory that Hugo (Suikoden I) was the secret father of Hugo (Suikoden III)? I know I saw that one a few times. That one IS crazy. Isn't just about the only thing we know of S3 Hugo's father is that he was brave? S1 Hugo couldn't even man up enough to go into a cave to look for a scroll. Plus he hangs out in temples and Lucia is into that nature spirit crap like the rest of the Karayans. I can't see them as romantic partners, but they might get their own odd couple sitcom.
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Sep 10, 2014 04:18
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I'm going to guess that Geddoe is Hugo's father, and that we will never learn this because Geddoe's options are, -->Have tearful reunion with your son -->Eh
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Sep 10, 2014 05:33
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Alacron posted:I'm going to guess that Geddoe is Hugo's father, and that we will never learn this because Geddoe's options are, I'm going to stand by this theory for the rest of my life.
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Sep 10, 2014 05:41
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Alacron posted:I'm going to guess that Geddoe is Hugo's father, and that we will never learn this because Geddoe's options are, you made me almost choke on my tea. Good show, sir.
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Sep 10, 2014 05:45
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Greatest possible avatar/post followups.
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Sep 10, 2014 06:19
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 -->Have tearful reunion with your son -->Eh For you, Alacron. It is avatar-sized. I didn't wanna go and change your avatar for you without permission, but please take it if you want it. It's not actually very tearful, though. Maybe later. Also, just Hugo:  e: VVV Aw, was I really gone that long? yokaiy fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 06:33
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Wait when did this start up again?
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Sep 10, 2014 06:34
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Hey Yokaiy, would you mind if I started covering the manga? Not going to go past where you are at in the story mind you Bbt just looking at differences in events, different characterisation and when the art just gets plain odd.
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Sep 10, 2014 06:42
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I didn't think anything would make me give up my CuQu avatar, yet here we are :T
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Sep 10, 2014 06:43
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Testekill posted:Hey Yokaiy, would you mind if I started covering the manga? Not going to go past where you are at in the story mind you Bbt just looking at differences in events, different characterisation and when the art just gets plain odd. Not at all; go ahead.  Just mind all the early Masked Bishop identity reveals, because you can pretty much trip over them in that manga.Alacron posted:I didn't think anything would make me give up my CuQu avatar, yet here we are :T I am so pleased by everything right now. Also, I need to read more CuQu at some point.
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Sep 10, 2014 06:50
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Alacron posted:I didn't think anything would make me give up my CuQu avatar, yet here we are :T Yes. YES. 
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Sep 10, 2014 06:51
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I knew this was my favoritest LP for a reason.
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Sep 10, 2014 06:55
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Chapter 4.4 - Schrödinger's Harmonians We arrive in Duck Village, trudging along on tired feet and with numerous injured in our ranks.  Even those who are relatively unharmed seem to bend under the weight of how thoroughly trashed we got by the Harmonians.  The Zexens are fairing poorly as well, as Chris gives orders to those well enough to run around.  And our wayward mercenaries seem to be offering what support they can, as well.  What a mess.   : "That wasn't just Harmonia's regional army. They also sent a unit from their main force. I didn't expect them to be so determined."So this is actually worse than we thought. Wonderful.   We can engage any of the injured soldiers in conversation, but most of them are just groans and grunts, understandably. There are also numerous ducks walking around with their own commentary, so let's get chatting with some of the more interesting ones.   : "We wouldn't have lost if our army had been only the Lizard Clan..." : "Terrible... Terrible... So this is the price one pays for defying Harmonia..." Hmm. Things aren't looking good. It seems that being defeated together hasn't really done much for that feeling of unity we need to blossom between our two armies.   : "Aagh! My stomach! It really hurts! May I be excused from the fighting...?" : "We don't have enough medicine or bandages. I never thought there would be so many casualties."   If we head on into the inn, there's a discussion going on between Salome and the Grasslanders.   : "We have to help them, or they'll never succeed. Understand?" : "Ahem! We lost because you were right behind us. We couldn't drop back and reconnoiter.": "Don't you trust us? We're trying to help." Salome slams his fist on the table.  Yeah, this isn't going well.  Maybe we can help...?  Okay...  : "We'll protect the Grasslands ourselves -- no matter what it takes!": "That's an insult."Dupa is just off-camera. Salome seems to have run off somewhere.  Maybe if we can find Chris, we can get things sorted out. Hugo and Chris aren't what I would call friendly, but maybe they can work together and set a good example for the others.  Ooooor maybe this is a bad time.  : "What? That can't be!" : "They must be pushing their advances forward so we don't have the chance to organize and attack. They must think we're fools!" : "No, it's a completely new battalion!"Are you kidding me. : "Then that makes three they've unleashed upon us! This is unbelievable!"  : "We have the Duck Clan, and reinforcements from the Great Hollow will be here any minute. We'll show them who's boss!" : "That would be suicide! It's mad!" : "I beg your pardon?" : "Just fall in behind."There's something almost reassuring about Dupa saying that they'd be waiting for the Zexens to join them.  But then they leave with no further discussion.  Don't worry, Chris. It could be worse. Maybe.  Oh, hey. I forgot I dragged Jimba along.   : "Another job?": "Yes, I think the Harmonian army is too big to be real. We had the first battalion, then two more advanced on both sides. And now another one! I bet they're using a magician to conjure up phantoms."Okay, I have some issue with the logic here, but sure. We can roll with this.  : "You think the advancing garrison is a bunch of ghosts?": "Maybe not all, but at least half of them are phantom images.": "So what do we do?": "To pull off such a huge deception, the magician has to focus all of his attention on his task. If we attack them suddenly, right where they least expect it--": "The entire apparition will disappear.": "I get it, but where is the magician? Do we know?" : "Sure." Caesar approaches, with Aila in tow. : "Aila, good to see you!" : "You too, Hugo. It hasn't been easy for either of us."Caesar cuts in -- this is no time to catch up with friends.  : "It took some doing to persuade them to send a messenger, but it's part of my job. So I can't complain."Keep this in mind for later. : "Where is the mage?" : "I know her face by heard and I can ask the spirits to find her and the magician.": "That's encouraging."  : "We'll show them what we're made of!" Aila butts her way into the party, so I kick Jimba for now.  And here we go again. Simple enough objective, though it's technically a lie. This is actually kind of an interesting strategy battle, as it's split up into three phases, and which phases you get to play depend on who you're playing as, with Hugo and Geddoe both doing phases 1 and 3, and Chris doing 1 and 2. You'll see how that works later.  : "We shall defend Grassland till victory!" : "If we fail now, there is no next time!" : "How kind of these weaklings to return for my enjoyment." : "Hold your cravings, Yuber. Remember our goal.": "How can I forget with you here? But all work and no play..."So we've got five units to start with: Lucia's unit, Dupa's unit, Shiba's unit, and two Duck units. On the other side, we've got 4 units of generic Harmonians, plus Sarah and Yuber both at the head of their own units. Sarah is the most dangerous one on the field.  I spread out my forces a little bit. I don't think there's actually a penalty for them getting behind you like in some other battles, but better not risk it. Now, since this is actually a timed battle, rather than a kill-everything battle, I leaned towards more defensive tactics for the most part. However, I was a little less cautious with my Ducks so I could see how they handled.  So, when a Harmonian unit came after us, I let my birds go at it for a round.  Their defense is pretty average, and will usually take about 100 damage each time they get hit.  Their offensive capabilities, however, are great. They're actually deceptively weak at first, dealing only around 70 damage on a normal shot. But they crit fairly often, and are usually pretty good about teaming up on one guy to take them out efficiently.  We lost a duck, but we dealt more than a fair share of damage to our invaders. In short, ducks are average, but they are the best drat average generic units you will see on your side of the field.  Lucia gets attacked by Yuber, but nothing much happens in the fight. Beecham, you may notice, has migrated from having his own unit into hers. Which makes her unit better than it was last time, at least.  Shiba gets attacked next. The guy is basically a wall, so unless he's up against a mage you don't have to worry too much. His generic friends there (of which he only gets two, so he doesn't get a full unit) are much less sturdy than he is, and are slow enough that there's a pretty good chance they'll go down before managing to do much of anything.  Shiba, being amazing, goes immediately after the leader. With the help of his now-dead and now-dying friends, he manages to cut their leader down without much of a fuss.  drat straight it is.  On my turn, I shuffle around a little and defend, but nothing else notable. Once it ends, though.  : "What is this?!": "Le Buque has sent forces, too!" Franz and another unit of bug-riders show up to the north.  : "We may have lost the battle at Chisha Village, but now we'll win the war!" : "Attack!"I was a little worried that Sasarai wouldn't be far behind him, given that the Mantor Riders seem to be stationed under him, but it ended up being a non-issue.  Dupa gets attacked, but I don't feel like wasting the time or effort, so I just tell him to retreat.  I forgot that the Mantors on their own are kinda laughable. I coulda just ended them.  Even the riders are pretty pitiful. The defending probably helped, though.  Yuber aims for my other Lizard, but he lets us get away without a fight. Surprising, that.  The other Duck unit gets attacked too, and suffers some unfortunate losses before getting away.  I get Dupa to heal up Shiba a bit.  And then shuffle around. Take note of the ducks on the far right, because they're going to get murdered. Pro tip: don't actually move your units up that close to Sarah.  Yuber continues to be an rear end, though it should be noted that, unlike the last battle, you can actually take him down here if you want. (Sarah is invincible instead.)  Ow, what?! Who do you think you are!  Beecham and Lucia's other mooks hold off a Harmonian unit with their faces. Sarah goes for the far-ducks.   Her unit is already absurdly strong -- much more than the other units on the map -- but on top of that, she is a big, dirty cheater.  Now, this is a fun quirk of the strategy battle system.  Units aren't really bound by runes that they may or may not have equipped. In this instance, it took her Fire Rune into account, but then had her use the strongest spell she was able to from the Fire Rune family. At least, I think that's how this worked.  That is to say, I'm pretty sure this is the level 6 fire spell, which should be unique to the True Fire Rune as it's level 4. And it hurts.  That poor duck only had 4 hp; that was entirely unnecessary. I'll show it off properly when we actually use it ourselves.  AradoBalanga posted:Let me guess, she bullshits in a high-damage spell that she should never have access to, but then she also somehow chains into a full party heal. Good call.  And one of her mooks finishes off the last one. You know what's even better, though?   Next turn, she suddenly farts 4 more units onto the field. So, Apple was right after all. : "By my ancestors! The enemy still appears!": "Spirits! How many of them are there?": "Haha! Move in for the kill!" One of the units swoops down and impales Shiba.  : "I don't believe it!" So, this duck is the best duck. I think he's ready to get a name and a face, Konami. : "Retreat! Foul weather!"That's kind of a cute retreat quote.  Lucia decides she's had enough of this mess, and scrams before Yuber can try to cut anyone else down to size.  : "We have nowhere to retreat."We could go to the Lizard lands? : "This isn't how I expected it to finish."Or we could not. That works too.  Chris pops onto the field just in time! : "A foolish Zexen to the very end. There is nowhere to go!": "I've already sent word to Brass Castle. Go there immediately!": "And face imprisonment? I'll take my chances on the battlefield!": "This is your last chance to trust us.": "Hmmm...": "There is no choice. We... will go. For now.": "You said it yourself; there is no choice." The Grasslanders get out. : "Now that we've promised to rout the enemy, you can tell me how we're going to do that...": "We don't need to attack. We just have to hold them until their magicians are vulnerable.": "Now we'll show what it means to be Zexen Knights."And with that, the battle ends. Were we Chris, we would proceed to phase 2 of the battle, but since we're not, we skip it and head to phase 3.  Taking out Sarah.  : "That's her!": "Remember, we just have to make her lose focus.": "Uh-huh."  : "Hey! Who's this?": "What is it?"  Ahh, a normal fight. I missed these.  As it turns out, I forgot to increase Hugo's fire magic in Duck Village.  So we'll go with the tried-and-true method of just throwing ourselves at them until they bleed to death. Camera aside, it tends to be a pretty good strategy.  Aila uses her Shield rune to berserk herself, Joe, and Mua. I'm greatly entertained that Hugo can attack faster than she can cast.    The battle goes about how you would expect.  It's a little late to start asking questions, Hugo. You just murdered her guards. : "I don't know what you are up to, lady!!!" Or... actually, her guards might just be undead, because they're still there. : "drat! I can't focus..." And onto battle number two!     And everyone gets levels except Hugo. These fights are great.  : "You think we're afraid of your phantoms? Hah! Where are they now? It's just you and me, lady!"And Hugo, and Joe, and Mua, and Hallec, and Fubar. And Caesar and Apple.  : "Last time, the rune saved me, but this time, I will do it on my own!" Once more.  I have Joe start by throwing a heal at these two.  Followed by another round of berserking: this time, Joe and Fubar.  Sarah follows up by wasting her turn. Not complaining.    We dish out some pain, but also take a little more than I'd like.  I have Aila get ready to do her emergency heal at the start of the turn to fix that little issue.  Sarah gets to Hugo first with a water spell.  He manages to hang on long enough, though.  Hallec and Mua cover for him for a bit.  And then Aila manages to get off the heal.  Ow.  Joe's on curing Hugo this time.   Leaving Hugo and Hallec open and ready to end the battle. You'll notice that Sarah is still standing. She's actually just a big decoy in this battle, since the fight ends once her guards go down.  Some levels.   : "Come on, just a little bit more!"As if it would be that easy.  Yuber warps in before we have a chance to charge into another battle with Sarah. : "No, I won't let you. We still need her."  At the wave of his hand, a bunch of monsters appear.  He and Sarah then teleport away.  : "That's okay. We've accomplished what we came for. Let's return to the Brass Castle." The monsters dissipate on cue -- they were only meant to distract us, I guess. Rather unlike Yuber, actually. I wonder if he was in some sort of rush.  The scene fades, and Aila leaves us.  Back at Brass Castle, things aren't looking too great.  : "Yeah, but we can't go on like this.": "Not to worry. I've got a plan. You can count on me to always have something up my sleeve. Trust me!" He heads off ahead of us.  Well, the castle itself is still fine, but there are a lot of injured milling about. Dialogue has changed to match the mood, so let's take a look at what some of the NPCs have to say. : "We won, but... I'm not sure I'll make it through this alive.": "How can we believe in victory... get stronger...? No, that's not even an issue..." : "Our enemy is vast and powerful, but... Swear on this sword to fight and die for Zexen." This lady is very important to me, actually.  And this is why.   : "Step right in! I can make you powerful weapons that can defeat Harmonians and demons!"I really like how Harmonians and demons are on equal-footing. Also, yes, we will probably need to defeat both, so this is a good thing for this man to have.  : "When I saw Harmonia's army, my legs folded under me. I couldn't move. I'm sorry! I'm afraid of dying.": "We all did our best, but the enemy was pretty tough. If we do our best again in the next battle...": "We are the strongest and fiercest of the Six Clans of Grassland, but we were really pushed to the edge in this last battle.": "Ohh... we won, but... I'm scared just thinking about fighting against Harmonia's armies again..."I don't even think that qualified as a win, either. More of a.... delay.  Yeah, let's see if anyone inside is less depressed.  The answer is no, not really.  : "All we can do is pray for a miracle..." : "Everyone's exhausted... Please just leave us alone for now..." Yeah, things are just generally not good right now.  While in the area, I decide to at least make the situation a little better by buying Hugo the Fire Magic skill and capping it out. With the ring I just got him, and the Wizards Hat I hopefully remembered to put on his head, his Fire Magic is pretty respectable.    I also spend some skill points here too, before heading upstairs.  One last  Everyone else already went ahead to the meeting room, so I guess we should join them there.  : "I didn't expect the Harmonian army to be so overwhelming."Lucia fought on their side last time, remember? : "I never thought our army could be defeated!": "If the Zexen Knights fight alongside the Grassland forces in the next battle..." : "Harmonia will occupy this land, and you'll all become third class citizens and be treated like slaves." The leaders all turn their heads to face Caesar, Apple, and Hugo. Dupa approaches Caesar, towering over him. : "What are you trying to tell me?"I think it's pretty clear, bud. : "I want to help you." : "A battle is more than a bunch of steel clashing together!" He walks past Dupa to address the others. : "Lord Salome, you take things for granted.": "What do you mean by that?"  Salome hesitates. : "Then what do you suggest we do, Lord Caesar?": "Our only chance of winning is by uniting Zexen, Grasslands, the tribes up norther and the neighboring countries into one cohesive fighting force.": "You make a good speech, but who are you, anyway? I'm tired of your bragging." : "My family served as chief strategists for the Royal Army in the Dunan Unification Wars and did the same for the liberation army in the Gate Rune Wars. Chief Lucia, you should know my grandfather, Leon Silverberg."This is supposed to be a reveal, but it's not really. : "Is this so, Lucia?": "Yes, I was with the Royal Highland Army 15 years ago, so I can vouch for him. His ideas are sound, so we should consider them." : "Who's going to lead this unified army? The Knights wouldn't want to follow our orders, nor we theirs. So, what's the answer?" Well, we don't have Iroh anymore, but...  We have Hugo? : "Hmm. But there is yet another problem."The scene fades as they relocate to the eastern side of the castle.    : "We realize we must unify to fight back, but we don't know where to begin."  Everything sucks forever, apparently.
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Sep 13, 2014 02:17
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Why did this game have to prove me, a person who has never played this game (or any Suikoden game, for that matter), absolutely dead on correct in predicting future bullshit? 
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Sep 13, 2014 02:33
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At least it took her two turns to do, unlike what the Masked Bishop can do.  To be fair, you're really not supposed to go up against her in this battle. Pretty sure she's also invincible for it.
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Sep 13, 2014 03:05
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I mean, the 'get your rear end kicked' phase is a very standard part of every single Suikoden phase right about at the midpoint when the main character actually starts properly taking charge. This game does throw the extra wrinkle in of having to manage multiple factions' annoyance with each other, though!
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Sep 13, 2014 03:07
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AradoBalanga posted:Why did this game have to prove me, a person who has never played this game (or any Suikoden game, for that matter), absolutely dead on correct in predicting future bullshit? Fuckin' wizards, man. They're the same no matter what franchise you're in.
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Sep 13, 2014 03:09
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This is just so much getting kicked in the rear end, right after we thought we got a neat advantage. But one person with a True Rune is still only one person, I suppose.
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Sep 13, 2014 03:22
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Glazius posted:This is just so much getting kicked in the rear end, right after we thought we got a neat advantage. But one person with a True Rune is still only one person, I suppose. Two people, Geddoe still has his True Lightning Rune, and even if he becomes fire champion then TL jumps to Hugo instead. As for what the hell Geddoe was doing this whole update, well... 
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Sep 13, 2014 03:56
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Alacron posted:Two people, Geddoe still has his True Lightning Rune, and even if he becomes fire champion then TL jumps to Hugo instead. As for what the hell Geddoe was doing this whole update, well... If we hadn't been watching Hugo the whole time I would think Geddoe was acting out your avatar. Seriously, that thing is great. yokaiy, you do good work.
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Sep 13, 2014 04:36
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You know...looking back on this game, I can't help but feel like Geddoe was supposed to be the "true" main character (cannon be damned). Let's look at the candidates on a story and game play basis. Story basis: Let's start with Hugo, our pick. Honestly, I hate the concept of "a child shall lead them" because a child just doesn't have the knowledge, skill, or experience that an adult would have. I'm just getting that one out of the way. The Zexens have no idea who this punk is (with the exception of Chris), they might as well have been asked to follow under Lucia (since, you know, he's her son and all that). The Lizards would look at him and go, he's just a new warrior, why the hell would we follow him. Even his own clan could take things the wrong way when asked to follow him. At best, it would seem like some sort of wonky situation where you're chief/general just asked you to follow the orders of the newbie warrior/private that would normally be under you. At worst it would seem like Nepotism. He also knows nearly nothing about war nor leadership. Chris. Generally she has the same problems as Hugo, but reversed. She would at least have the respect of her own troops though (unlike Hugo she's already a commander AND she knows a thing or two about war). Now Geddoe on the other hand, is essentially a third choice that could arbitrate between the two main groups. He has no affiliation to Zexen OR the grasslands. Furthermore, he's the only one of the three that really has a right to claim the FB mantle as he was the only one who was there in the first place. He has connections EVERYWHERE as well. He has leadership skills and has more than a century of battle experience under his belt. Being vague here due to story; he also seems to have the most in common with the main villain (who comes off as a shadow-type to Geddoe). Gamplay wise. Chris first, she's the worst. Don't give her the fire rune unless you like pain and suffering. We pretty much all know that. Hugo. He's ok. He has a decent fire score, though he's more of a melee fighter. As Geddoe would say "eh". Geddoe is a wizard character, he has the highest fire skill and magic skill to go with the rune. It's just such a drat shame that fire sucks in comparison to the lightning rune. So to sum up my thoughts: story wise Geddoe>Chris>Hugo Gameplay wise Geddoe>Hugo>Chris. Though giving up that TLR on the one guy who knows how to use the damned thing....
mauman fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Sep 13, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2014 07:36
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Agreed, I chose Geddoe for my first run of the game and it still makes the most sense to me. A shame that Suikoden, for the most part, still follows the trope of no main characters over 19 rule.
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Sep 13, 2014 07:50
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Raitzeno posted:If we can get out of the speculation for a minute, I like how Geddoe brings up his hand and goes 'Yo bitches, True Fire up in da house," with his glove on. Really, how did they not just go right back to squabbling? It's not like they could see the rune on him. I'm surprised nobody explained this, and just kind of skipped past it. They stopped squabbling because he's loving Geddoe. He doesn't show the rune because he doesn't need to. He can do things with a grunt that most men can't with a yell. Alternate Answer: --> Rally troops by taking off glove and revealing mystical rune of power. --> Eh
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Sep 13, 2014 08:23
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mauman posted:
Normally that's really fair, and there's no particular justification for it except "but if we make our hero an adult the kids won't play the game!" (*gag* Also y'know Final Fantasy VII exists and sold more than your game). But for Suikoden, and especially Suikoden III, it makes sense. The games have always been clear that, despite the gameplay implications, the Tenkai Star's role is predominantly inspirational. They're a visible symbol of the army. And yeah, all the other heroes have been young men, scarcely out of boyhood, wielding True Runes. And that's WHY they're a symbol. The history of the world in Suikoden has been shaped by this pattern, over and over. The hero Hikusaak, uniting his people behind the banner of the Circle Rune. The knight Lazlo, driving off the Kuluk invaders and leaving the Island Nation Federation in his wake. Iroh the flame champion. Tir, Riou. Hell, even Riou's foster father, Genkaku, was likely that age when he fought. How old was Barbarossa when he took the throne after the bitter succession wars in Scarlet Moon? ...wait I bet I can find that *research* Ahh, nevermind, he was about 40 then! Guess someone had to break the pattern. But yeah. The True Runes shape history, and those runes choose their bearers. And those bearers tend to be young guys still in their teens, who subsequently shape history. For people in Suikoden's world, that's fact, historically proven over and over, especially in the time frame of Suikoden III when the other four games that all follow this exact pattern have already happened. Basically people trust in the power of a demigod and charisma over the power of knowledge and experience because that's what the stories and history they know teach them in that world. Not that this means Geddoe isn't qualified to lead or anything. Just, there is a reason people don't dismiss a skinny neophyte like Hugo out of hand here.
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Sep 13, 2014 08:44
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CmdrKing posted:words I respect your opinion, even though I disagree with it. As for my rebuttal: Having played the the first two games I seem to recall that the "kid hero" in each had lots of trouble getting people to join him at times (elves spring to mind). Now when a rune chooses a person like that you have to deal with the cards you're dealt with. Here we had a choice. I personally think Hugo would be the wrong choice since he's outclassed in every way by Geddoe. Even now he's getting a "not now kiddo" vibe from his mother in a war meeting. Him being a kid is a detriment in every way right now.
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Sep 13, 2014 09:06
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CmdrKing posted:Normally that's really fair, and there's no particular justification for it except "but if we make our hero an adult the kids won't play the game!" (*gag* Also y'know Final Fantasy VII exists and sold more than your game). But for Suikoden, and especially Suikoden III, it makes sense. The games have always been clear that, despite the gameplay implications, the Tenkai Star's role is predominantly inspirational. They're a visible symbol of the army. And yeah, all the other heroes have been young men, scarcely out of boyhood, wielding True Runes. And that's WHY they're a symbol. The history of the world in Suikoden has been shaped by this pattern, over and over. The hero Hikusaak, uniting his people behind the banner of the Circle Rune. The knight Lazlo, driving off the Kuluk invaders and leaving the Island Nation Federation in his wake. Iroh the flame champion. Tir, Riou. Hell, even Riou's foster father, Genkaku, was likely that age when he fought. How old was Barbarossa when he took the throne after the bitter succession wars in Scarlet Moon? ...wait I bet I can find that *research* Ahh, nevermind, he was about 40 then! Guess someone had to break the pattern. Genkaku was probably pretty old too when he and Han Cunningham had the Bright Shield and Black Sword runes. He died of... old age or illness a scant 15 years after leaving Jowston behind. In fact, I bet Suikosource has his exact age down. *away!* Okay, so oddly enough Genkaku doesn't have a listed year of birth, but he's shown to have died in year 458, 2 years before the start of Suikoden 2. However, Han DOES have a birth year, that being 396, and "Genkaku's Great Offensive" took place in 432. Han would have been 36 years old (and 64 during Suikoden 2), and since he and Genkaku were good pals with each other, it's highly likely that they'd be close in age. Mind you, this is all speculation and the two could've been chummy enough despite a large gap in age. No listing of what he actually died of though, so I'm not sure if it was old age or illness, though I'm banking on the latter since Genkaku was by all accounts a pretty tough guy (war veteran and strict martial artist) and probably wouldn't be frail enough to die of natural causes at around 60. Maybe someone who's played Suikoden 2 more recently than I have can answer what actually killed him.
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Sep 13, 2014 09:10
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Admittedly, I like the idea of Hugo trying (and failing somewhat) to be the massive inspiration that a Tenkai Star usually is, True Rune and all, with Geddoe just milling around in the background cleaning up the kid's messes. After all, he knows what a True Rune is like, he's had one since Iroh's days. Kid'll grow into it, just give it time.
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Sep 13, 2014 09:32
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mauman posted:
Well yeah. It's his mom. Most of their scenes together to this point have been her struggling with Hugo coming into his own as a warrior and man, so of course that's going to extend to not jumping to accept him as the Flame Champion. We haven't seen how the rank and file react to him, and for a symbolic leader that's the real test, yeah?
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Sep 13, 2014 10:00
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Do keep in mind that none of these three people are actually the Tenkai Star. Hugo can try to be inspirational until he's blue in the face, but he's not getting any help with that from a higher power. Instead, it went to someone arguably -less- inspirational on his own merits before it starts kicking in.
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Sep 13, 2014 13:18
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Yeah, again, one interesting thing that Suikoden 3 does differently from the others is that whichever main character you pick from the three, NONE of them are actually the Tenkai Star! (It's Thomas, for reference.)
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Sep 13, 2014 16:05
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What the hell is Jimbo doing keeping his background hidden now? Seems more than a little selfish for the big hero to stay pseudonymous when the big issue is uniting his two cultures.
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Sep 13, 2014 17:16
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PFlats posted:What the hell is Jimbo doing keeping his background hidden now? Seems more than a little selfish for the big hero to stay pseudonymous when the big issue is uniting his two cultures. Because he had been tracked by Harmonian spies and the only thing they know is that he's in the Grasslands and had been a Zexen. In the manga, Hugo and Lulu see the Bishop and co from a distance through some fog and immediately tell Jimba that they'd seen some ghosts out there. They tell him what they overheard and he gets the gently caress out of dodge. Testekill fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 01:33
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