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This is the long introduction of my engine swap thread. I think its a fairly good story, but it's long. This portion contains no real info on the swap, but does have some AI content. I hope you enjoy. In August of 2009, I was living in Chicago and got sent to Las Vegas for a couple of weeks for work. The job was easy and only took up a couple hours a day. Naturally I spent the rest of the time drinking and gambling. I'd been to Vegas often in the past, and knew the town pretty well. Near the end of my trip, I won $1000 playing blackjack at Red Rock Casino on the outskirts of town. I'd been looking for a project car for a while, and a 3800 Fiero swap looked like a good candidate. I considered a few others like a Cummins G-Body El Camino or a Supercharged Northstar Eldorado, but the Fiero looked fairly easy and cheap. While passing time waiting to fly home from McCarran airport, I looked for Fieros on the Chicago craigslist and found a few candidates. Most of cars available in Chicago had been through hell and back. Being a cheap enough car with no backseat, Fieros are often bought for teenagers who do terrible modifications to them. There were more than a few up for grabs with a spray painted interior, or mismatched body panels. The one that caught my eye on the Chicago craigslist had higher miles (~170,000), an acceptable interior, and matching body panels. Oddly it listed it's location as San Diego. Not being a Chicago native, I figured that there might be a far out suburb called San Diego, anything is possible. I gave the guy a call and it turned out the car was in San Diego, CA. Turns out he was retired from the Navy and originally from Chicago, but settled in San Diego. The car was still plated in Illinois, so he listed it on the Chicago craigslist. We talked for a bit and he seemed really honest about the car. Listed some problems with it, discribed it's history, etc. I got to thinking about it and decided to go for it. I called back to my home office in the Chicago suburbs and told them that I wouldn't be flying back from Vegas, but I'd be driving. They were good enough to let me refund the ticket and pocket the cash, as long as I didn't try to charge them for mileage. I phoned up my then girlfriend (now wife) and told her that I planned to drive from San Diego to Chicago over the weekend. She decided that she was going to fly out to San Diego and make the drive with me, even though I warned her it wasn't going to be a sightseeing trip. I couldn't talk her out of it, and she booked a flight to sunny CA for Friday morning, September 9th, 2009. I took my rental car out to San Diego and met up with the Fiero seller in a Holiday Inn parking lot on Thursday night. I kicked the tires and checked for rust, and all in all the car was just how he described it. Aside from being 25 years old, the car had no emergency brake and an odd electrical gremlin. One of the fusible links kept blowing, which killed 90% of the electrical systems on the car. He had replaced it with a 30 amp quick change fuse and told me that it only blew out about once a month. There was one big problem though, as I warned him on the phone he would have to teach me how to drive a manual before I'd buy it. We took off for a residential neighborhood and for the next two hours he taught me how to drive. I've driven other man trans cars since, and let me tell you the Fiero is about the worst car you could choose to learn on. Featuring the 151 cu in, 97 HP IRON DUKE  engine, finding the engagement point on the clutch was key. If you didn't get it perfectly, the car would stall easily. It barely had enough torque to get out of its own way, definitely not enough to recover from a bad start.Regardless, he taught me how to handle the third pedal and I forked over $600 of my blackjack money for a new 1985 Pontiac Fiero project car. The next morning, I took my rental car to Autozone and stocked up for the trip. I bought a new accessory belt, a gallon of coolant, a can of fix-a-flat, and some duct tape. I had my normal tool bag with me for work, so I was pretty set otherwise. I dropped this stuff in the Fiero and went to the airport to pick up my girlfriend and drop off the rental car. We hopped a cab back to the Holiday Inn and I attempted to load up the car. Without being too stereotypical, my girlfriend had WAY overpacked for the trip. We'd be sitting in a car for three days, and she still brought three bags on the flight. Between the emergency supplies, my tools, my baggage from being in Vegas for three weeks, and her three bags, the car was packed to the gills. The underhood area of the Fiero is largely empty space, a radiator, and a spare tire, but for this trip it also doubled as a storage location. Finally, at high noon on Friday September 9th we took off for Chicago. Getting out of the Holiday Inn parking lot was a pain, there were quite a few hills, and I barely knew what I was doing. My first time taking the car faster than 20 mph was when I merged on to I-15. I went from first to second, and from second to fifth. Then I tried to put the tranny into "fourth" but the lockout prevented it (I would have put it into reverse at 60 mph). I quickly realized both that I'm an idiot, and it was going to be a long ride. A few hours later, we were nearly at the Nevada state line and coasting down the mountain range in neutral. A combination of low RPMs on the engine to turn the water pump and the hot Mojave desert sent the temp gauge spiking. I turned on the heater to see if I could bring it down and the car died. I coasted to the side of the road and got out. The fusible-link-fuse had blown due to using the heater. I replaced the fuse and limped to a rest area (I can't remember if it was before or after Primm). I filled up the car with water from the drinking fountain because I wanted to save my antifreeze if the desert was going to be rough on me. We let the electric fan do its work for about 15 minutes, and hopped back on the road to Vegas. The rest of the trip was uneventful, aside from trying to get down the strip and not stall the car. We wound up staying at the Hooters Casino and going out to dinner with a friend of ours who lived in Las Vegas. The next morning we hit the road at 6am, the aim was to make it from Las Vegas to Denver. A few hours later we stopped for lunch at a truck stop at the I-15, I-70 junction. I-70 from I-15 in Utah is the longest stretch of road on the Interstate System with no gas stations, and I was a little nervous trusting the gas gauge of 25 year old car but we made it. I was happy when we finished the ~125 mile stretch with no gas, and gassed up again just for safety's sake. After we passed through Grand Junction, CO we started the climb into the Rockies. I highly recommend driving I-70 through Utah and Colorado. It's the most beautiful part of the Interstate System, by far. Unfortunently the Fiero didn't agree with Colorado. I think the rule of thumb says that as you gain elevation, you lose 5 HP per 1000 ft. I-70 crosses the Rockies near Loveland Pass at about 12,000 feet. This made my 97 HP IRON DUKE give something closer to 37 HP, and it showed. I was in the truck lane with my hazard lights on, going 35 mph with the pedal to the floor as we neared the Continental Divide and the Eisenhower Tunnel. The altitude must have gotten to my girlfriend, because she said "I'm cold!", reached over, and turned on the heat. The combination of hazard lights, head lights, windshield wipers, and the heater was too much for the fusible link fuse, so it blew. On the shoulder of I-70 at at least a 15 degree incline, I had to patch that up. With no ebrake, the car kept overcoming compression and lurching backwards as I attempted to change the fuse. I finally took one of her bags and used it to wedge the tire, changed the fuse and started the car back up. Now I had to attempt to get the car moving to make it the last 1/4 mile to the tunnel and the downhill slope, and again I had been driving stick for two days at this point. Pushing in the clutch to start the car sent it rolling backwards quickly, and without an ebrake getting it rolling forwards was tricky. The third time I restarted the car it was evident that the battery wasn't going to start it again, so I decided to burn the clutch until we were rolling. Not the best idea, but it worked. We passed through the tunnel and started downhill at last. We made it to Golden, CO and slept exhausted in a Holiday Inn. Sunday, September 11th  was going to be the long day. We left Golden at 6:00am to travel to Chicago. Near 1pm that day, on I-80 near Grand Island, NE the car backfired loudly and died. At first I assumed it was the fusible link, but all of the electrical systems still worked, it just wouldn't start. I popped the trunk and got to work. The fusible link was fine, so I started the FAST No Start check (Fuel Air Spark Timing). Being a TBI system, I put a rag under the fuel injector while she cranked it, and checked for fuel (pass). Air was obviously fine with the carb hat (TBI hat?) off. I pulled a plug and set it on the valve cover while the girlfriend cranked it and didn't see a spark. I then told her that I was going to put a glove on and hold the plug to ground with a pair of pliers, and that if I yelled stop she was to stop cranking immediately. It failed that test too, so I figured it would have to be the coil, cap, or rotor. Just as I was ready to hike into town, the Nebraska Motorist Assistance pulled up and offered me a ride into town. It's a free program that helps out stranded drivers on I-80. Great guys. They gave me a ride to AutoZone where I bought the new ignition parts, and a ride back to the car. I swapped everything out and it was still dead. The Motorist Assistance guys couldn't hang out with me all day, so they gave me the number for a tow and took off. I had the car towed into Grand Island to a Holiday Inn parking lot for $40. As often as I travelled back then, I had thousands of Priority Club points, so I went into the hotel and made a reservation. I talked to the girl at the front desk and asked when was the latest in the day that I could cancel the reservation and get my points back, and she said 6pm. It was roughly 4pm by this point, so I got to work. My girlfriend and I hiked to an Advance Auto down the street and had them test my ignition module, which was dead. Luckly they had one in stock. We grabbed a late lunch and went back to the Holiday Inn. I put the new ignition module on, and retried the spark plug test. Again I told her to stop cranking when I yelled STOP. She cranked, I saw a spark and started screaming STOP. Of course she didn't hear me, so I got a hell of an HEI shock. Reinstalled the plug, turned over the car and we were good to go. It was 5:45pm at this point and I was exhausted from three days of driving, so I wanted to stay in the hotel. She convinced me otherwise, because she had a test in college on Monday. I went back to the hotel front desk and got my points back, then we got back on I-80. Eight hours later, I stopped for gas off of I-88 in Illinois. We were two hours from home. Shortly after getting back on I-88, I stopped to pay a toll and couldn't get the car moving again. The clutch was gone. The tollbooth operator gave me a number for a tow, and at 4am we got towed from I-88 to a Pontiac Dealership in Dixon, IL (HOMETOWN OF RONALD REAGAN!). I could tell we were back in Illinois because this tow cost $280. My girlfriend wanted to get a hotel room, but out of pure exhaustion I told her that I was sleeping in the car. Just after 8am, I woke up to a car salesman tapping on the window. I went inside and talked to the service guys, who told me they could get the job done in a day or two. Now I just needed to figure out how to get back to Chicago. The dealership would rent me a car, but I could only put 100 miles on it without being heavily penalized. That wouldn't work because Chicago was roughly 90 miles away and I'd have to return the car. The Enterprise in town was out of cars, and didn't know when they'd get more. At the time I was in the President's Circle with Avis, so I called Avis and asked for a car. They actually drove a Chevy Aveo to me from Rockford, IL and we were back on the road. We made it home to Chicago at about 2pm on Monday, laughing about how huge the Aveo was compared to the packed up Fiero. Later that week, on Thursday I drove the Aveo to Rockford and Avis gave me a ride to Dixon to pick up the Fiero. Changing the clutch cost me $1100, but at the time I didn't have anywhere to change the clutch so it was well worth it. Besides, my garage housed my Buick and I wasn't going to park the Buick on the street on the southside of Chicago. Between the tows and the clutch, I more than doubled the cost of the car, but at least I made it home to start the swap. Right now I'm going to take advantage of my baby being asleep and actually go work on the swap, so I will post more later. TL;DR: Bought a Fiero in San Diego, drove it to Chicago to swap a 3800 in it.
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| # ? Jan 3, 2013 20:57 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 09:36 |
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Good start to a project. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time reading this.
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| # ? Jan 3, 2013 21:33 |
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I made a similar but much shorter and less eventful journey with my then-future-wife in a '73 Opel GT from San Diego to AZ. It's something everyone should do once. And only once.
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| # ? Jan 3, 2013 21:38 |
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I want to make a Mad Max Fiero like this one, Fieros are awesome even the Fierrais like kit cars.  Nice story. Get some pics of the Fiero in here!
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| # ? Jan 3, 2013 22:23 |
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I am surprised she stuck around. Maybe this is a good test for any future wife, make her go on a trip in a questionable car through the US.
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| # ? Jan 3, 2013 22:26 |
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I haven't driven a 3800-swapped Fiero, but I've seen one haul some serious rear end around a track. This looks like it'll be a pretty cool thread. Whereabouts in Chicagoland are you?
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| # ? Jan 3, 2013 22:43 |
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I did something like that with my dad to get a $400 Toyota Pickup made of mouse nests, mold, and rust from Alaska to Washington. Nothing like buying a really cheap old car sight unseen and then having to get it back home.
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| # ? Jan 3, 2013 22:45 |
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Impulse buy of the century. No way in hell I'd buy an 80's car for under $1000 and expect to drive halfway across the country right afterwards. Should be an interesting thread though. 
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| # ? Jan 3, 2013 22:48 |
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IOwnCalculus posted:I made a similar but much shorter and less eventful journey with my then-future-wife in a '73 Opel GT from San Diego to AZ. It's something everyone should do once. My now wife and I drove from Minneapolis, MN to Austin,TX and back again in 72 hours. She had food poisoning. It was that trip that convinced me to both marry her and never do that again.
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| # ? Jan 3, 2013 23:03 |
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I've been thinking of doing the same swap for a while now, except I've been accumulating 3800 parts instead of a fiero. I didn't see it in the OP, but are you going with a series 2? Supercharged or N/A? You probably have a tuner in Chicago already but just in case you need more options there is ZZP in Grand Rapids MI, and Sinister Performance in Fort Wayne, IN.
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| # ? Jan 4, 2013 01:49 |
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KennyLoggins posted:Nice story. Get some pics of the Fiero in here! You made me realize that I don't actually have any pictures of my current Fiero. I have plenty from inside of it, and individual pieces, but nothing of the whole car. Here's a picture I took this evening. Sorry for the poor lighting, cell phone camera, and general shittyness of it.  Here's a current picture of the swap:  Here's a bonus picture of my first Fiero, a 1984 SE model with my Buick in the background. Double bonus: artistic-style:  BrokenKnucklez posted:I am surprised she stuck around. Maybe this is a good test for any future wife, make her go on a trip in a questionable car through the US. She took it all in stride, and always does. Even my bitching about no sleep due to her exam. Still packs too many bags though. Boaz MacPhereson posted:I haven't driven a 3800-swapped Fiero, but I've seen one haul some serious rear end around a track. This looks like it'll be a pretty cool thread. Whereabouts in Chicagoland are you? I left Chicago in 2010, but at the time I lived in Bridgeport. Great neighborhood. Larrymer posted:Impulse buy of the century. No way in hell I'd buy an 80's car for under $1000 and expect to drive halfway across the country right afterwards. I once bought a 89 Ford E-150 van for $200 on eBay and drove it from Montauk, NY to Saratoga Springs, NY (~300 miles). It had a giant vacuum leak thanks to a hole in the intake manifold which I fixed with a pop can and JB Weld. I have no common sense. Aceshighxxx posted:I've been thinking of doing the same swap for a while now, except I've been accumulating 3800 parts instead of a fiero. I didn't see it in the OP, but are you going with a series 2? Supercharged or N/A? I'm going Series 2, Supercharged. I'm planning on tuning it myself with HP Tuners, and there's a dyno here in Traverse City, MI. If I can't make heads or tails of it, I can always drive down to ZZP. Thanks though!
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| # ? Jan 4, 2013 02:39 |
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Once I got back to Chicago, I had to overcome a couple problems in setting up the swap. First of all, I had no garage space. The GN filled my tiny garage, and I wasn't willing to street park it to give up space for the Fiero. I talked the general manager of my company into letting me use a tiny office in our warehouse that wasn't being used. It was perfect, I could work on the swap there on weekends, and even drive the car into the warehouse when it came time to actually doing the swap. The main problem with this was that the office was about 90 minutes by train from my apartment. Also, I was travelling for work during the week so my wrenching time was limited. About a week after I'd been back from Vegas they sent me to Hawaii for two weeks (sometimes life is hard). All of the previous swaps talked about great deals on 30,000 mile cradle dropouts for $200. I looked everywhere and couldn't find a decent motor in Illinois for under $2000. I finally settled on a $400 L67 from a Buick Park Ave Ultra with 160,000 miles in Indianapolis. On Halloween which was a Saturday in 2009, the girlfriend and I took off for Indy in the morning. We loaded up the L67 in the back of her Chevy Aveo (Note: Different Aveo than the rental car, and she owned it before we started dating). It barely fit, but it managed. I kick myself for not getting a picture of this. Four hours later we were back in the western suburbs of Chicago, and the engine found a temporary home in my company's warehouse. Here's a pic after we started the teardown:  Because of the mileage, I decided to do a complete rebuild. Here's a note for people planning this swap. Don't do a rebuild, and don't buy an engine buy a complete dropout. 3800's pretty much last forever, and I probably shouldn't have done the rebuild. You live and you learn. That being said, the pistons were NASTY.  They measured in spec, but just look at them! I couldn't trust that, so I don't fully regret the rebuild. In general, the the engine reeked of being from a Buick Park Avenue. It was probably owned by some old bluehair that never revved it higher than 2000 rpms. There was carbon buildup on everything. After I had it stripped down to the short block, I sent it off to Windy City Engineering to have the block checked out. They hot tanked it, checked the bore, changed the cam bearings, and decked it for straightness. Good people that do a great job for a good price. The only problem was that I dropped it off at the shop with a rental car, and my Buick was up for the winter when they were done with it. The girlfriend was working afternoons, so I did what any Chicagoan would do and lugged my engine block home on the CTA. I made it all the way to my El stop before I flagged a cab to take it the last 2 miles. I started reassembly shortly thereafter, after I was able to get a rental car to lug the engine from my apartment to the office. I don't have any pics of the bare block, but here's a reassembly pic:  Around this time I bought L26 connecting rods from FuzzKill. Seen installed here with ARP 12 point bolts:  Combining the rods with the new pistons should increase the compression ratio to 9.4:1:  This is typically performed by throwing a set of L67 heads / intake manifold / supercharger on top of a NA engine and is called a top swap on the Grand Prix forums. You have to tune a bit more carefully, but I should get around a 10% HP increase compared to the standard L67 3800. Here's a pic after I finished the rotating assembly:  Around the same time the battery freed itself from the rusted out battery carrier and collided with the water pump pulley, drilling a hole in it. Rather than fixing the rusted carrier, I decided to move the battery to the front. I ordered a kit from a Fiero dealer, V8 Archie and cut a hole:  Then I filled the hole:  All of the red dust is from when the car overheated in the Mojave. I got some 0 gauge wire from Home Depot and ran cables underneath the car, and dropped a battery in the new spot:  Great success. The car started much easier and moving the battery freed up room to mount the PCM later on. I dropped the heads off at Windy City Engineering and had them rebuilt with new valve springs, valves, and keepers (forgive the boxes, trying to blur out some details):  This was my office around that time:  The company was incredibly cool with me doing the swap there. Mainly because the GM thought it was cool. This gets me up to about April 2010. I'll add more later, and get this thread up to date. camino fucked around with this message at Jan 4, 2013 around 03:01 |
| # ? Jan 4, 2013 02:40 |
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camino posted:I got some 0 gauge wire from Home Depot and ran cables underneath the car, and dropped a battery in the new spot: Did you fuse that positive cable at the battery? I'd hate to see this cool little dude go up in flames because of a short somewhere in that long-rear end cable. 
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| # ? Jan 4, 2013 03:17 |
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Sweet, about time we got a Fiero project. As the other dork swapping a comedy engine into a tiny mid engine roundabout I propose we can combat one another around a track of your choosing to perform the ultimate MR2 vs Fiero shootout. Rules
I see this as fair.
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| # ? Jan 4, 2013 03:24 |
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Nice story and awesome swap. gently caress, I wish I lived near ZZP.
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| # ? Jan 4, 2013 05:04 |
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stevobob posted:Did you fuse that positive cable at the battery? I'd hate to see this cool little dude go up in flames because of a short somewhere in that long-rear end cable. How exactly would you fuse the cable that feeds your starter?
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| # ? Jan 4, 2013 05:33 |
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stevobob posted:Did you fuse that positive cable at the battery? I'd hate to see this cool little dude go up in flames because of a short somewhere in that long-rear end cable. Lots of cars have long rear end loving cables. Most BMW's and Mercedes use em, Audi here and there, SAAB here and there. Even the Lincoln LS uses it.
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| # ? Jan 4, 2013 06:37 |
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Does the later suspension mount up to the early suspension hardpoints? Do you have any plans there?
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| # ? Jan 4, 2013 06:42 |
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IOwnCalculus posted:How exactly would you fuse the cable that feeds your starter?
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| # ? Jan 4, 2013 08:44 |
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stevobob posted:Did you fuse that positive cable at the battery? I'd hate to see this cool little dude go up in flames because of a short somewhere in that long-rear end cable. I don't have a fuse on it. It's on the list of things to do, but I was pretty careful when I mounted the cables. They run through insulated clamps the entire way, and the cable terminates at the starter (I ran a 4 ga wire from the starter to the distribution block). The distance from the battery to the starter is only about 10 feet, which really isn't huge compared to some new cars. That being said, a fuse is in the cards. Kotaru posted:Sweet, about time we got a Fiero project. As the other dork swapping a comedy engine into a tiny mid engine roundabout I propose we can combat one another around a track of your choosing to perform the ultimate MR2 vs Fiero shootout. Can the Fiero leak oil? For the first six months, it had a pretty big oil leak that I was lazy about fixing because "the swap would be done soon". Once I realized I was in project car hell, I fixed the leak. Otherwise, deal. The game is on. kimbo305 posted:Does the later suspension mount up to the early suspension hardpoints? Do you have any plans there? Negative. The 3800 features GM's Metric Bellhousing pattern, so it bolts right up to Fiero transmissions. I'm using the 3800 on a Fiero engine cradle which naturally bolts in to the Fiero fine. Fiero engines mount with one engine mount, two tranny mounts, and a torque strut "dog bone". Since I'm using the Fiero tranny, I only needed to get / make a 3800 engine mount and a dog bone. I haven't figured out what I'm going to do for the dog bone yet, but the mounts are done (I'll get the pics up soon).
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| # ? Jan 4, 2013 15:11 |
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Yesss. Thread is awesome.
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| # ? Jan 5, 2013 18:54 |
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Coredump posted:Yesss. Thread is awesome. Thanks buddy. With the heads done, it was time to bolt them on. My horsepower goals for this car are reasonable, but whenever possible I've gone top of the line. I like to do things right and do them once. With that in mind I went with ARP studs for the heads, with 12 point bolts:  That picture also shows the balance shaft. A lot of builders would have removed it and plugged the oil bosses, which I considered. In the end, I figured that it was better to stay with the factory design rather than introduce a new possible point of failure by plugging the holes. Additionally, most people that remove the balance shaft are running automatics. I figure that I'll run at higher RPMs longer than the standard driver due to the manual trans, so it can't hurt to have a little bit more balance in the equation. I bolted the heads on with the ARP studs:  I don't have a picture with the rockers installed, prior to the valve covers. I assure you, they are installed. I debated getting a Gen V supercharger off of a 2004+ Grand Prix, but decided against it. For one it would require a new intake manifold, but also I thought that it might give me too much power. The Fiero trans I'm using is made of glass, so I need to be careful of throwing too much power behind it. So I picked up a Gen III supercharger from a boneyard, painted it to match the valve covers and bolted it on to my ported Gen III intake manifold:  Now I had a decent foundation and bolted on the fuel rail, injectors, water pump, an idler pulley, MAP sensor, and the exhaust manifolds:  This brings us to roughly June of 2010. Things were rough at my company due to the economy. No one had been laid off, but the writing was on the wall. Combined with the fact that I really couldn't move up in the organization, I decided to quit my job and go back to school. This halted progress on the swap until after the move. In mid July, I returned to the shop to pack everything up and move it out of the office (thank God for the HF engine crane). I gave my two week notice on Monday, and left Chicago on July 31st. Being a broke college student slowed down the already slow progress on the project, and not much happened until March of 2011. Here and there I saved my pennies and bought parts. I was able to get custom engine mounts from a Fiero dealer called Purple Reign, an organic clutch and racing pressure plate from ClutchNet, an extra Fiero tranny from the boneyard, and a Fiero cradle from some guy on craigslist. Over the months. I just needed to get a flywheel. The 3800 was only offered as a man trans in the 4th gen Camaro, so I ordered a flywheel from a 98 Camaro. The Camaro 3800 was only offered naturally aspirated, which features a different balance than the L67 supercharged. I had to search for a machine shop that could take the balance from the automatic flexplate and apply it to the Camaro flywheel. That probably would have been easy in Chicago, but it was a pain in the rear end in Northern Michigan. I finally found a guy that could do it, Alpine Performance Engineering in Gaylord (  ), MI.With all of these parts combined, I could finally get the engine mounted on the Fiero cradle. Clutch installed to flywheel:  Which allowed me to connect the Fiero trans, and start to line up the mounts:  The cradle required a little grinding work to get the mounts on, but I got it. 18 months after I started the swap, I finally had the engine mounted:  While I was working on all of this, I was also attempting to get the serpantine belt situation worked out:  I nearly worked out all of the kinks, and then the wife and I decided to move again! My dad often kids me that this engine will have the 500 mile break in done before I ever start it. So we moved, and I fell even more behind schedule. I'll update more later. I'm off to the garage to build a fuel line bracket.
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| # ? Jan 5, 2013 19:51 |
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Yeah I have never seen a car with a fused starter. Even my BMW which has the battery under the back seats has a 4 gauge wire with a fusable link that runs forward and feeds all the electronics, and then a 1/0 (maybe 2 gauge? I forget) for the starter that doesn't have any type of fuse.
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| # ? Jan 5, 2013 22:15 |
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Start of this thread reminds me of when I bought a 2G Eclipse GS-T down in NoVA off of ebay and drove it back to Flint. The accessory belt let go on the Ohio Turnpike near Sandusky and I had to get it towed to some shop at 4am on a Sunday morning in the middle of a snow storm. I agree with IOC in that everyone should do something like that once, but no more.
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| # ? Jan 5, 2013 22:50 |
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camino posted:The Fiero trans I'm using is made of glass
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| # ? Jan 6, 2013 17:16 |
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Yay pictures! One day I will not be a cheapass and do things like rebuild and engine (not use junkyard parts), and plan projects in advance (not spur of the moment). Until then, I will watch others.
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| # ? Jan 6, 2013 18:00 |
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Left Ventricle posted:The Isuzu five speed, I presume? It's terrible. You should really try to get a hold of a Getrag five speed, or the Muncie four speed, if you're sticking with a manual. I drove a Cavalier with the Isuzu, and it was like stirring a box of gravel with bamboo. Awful. Yes the Isuzu. Yes I know it's going to explode. It really doesn't shift that bad when its filled with synchromesh. I would upgrade to a Getrag or 3900 6 speed, but at this point I'm finishing the swap out of spite. I refuse to fail, so I toil away and save my pennies to finish it. I'm not even planning on driving it for that long after I finish. Just a year or so to justify the work, then I'm going to sell it to finance the next project. Hopefully I'll be graduated by then, so I won't be as broke and I'll be able to finish in a reasonable time frame.
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| # ? Jan 7, 2013 02:08 |
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I actually have a Cavalier Z24 I bought as a beater that turned out to have that transmission with the rare Quaife LSD installed and the shorter ratio gears from a 2.2 OHV Cavalier. It's not so bad in a beater, definitely more than driveable with the limited slip, but I couldn't imagine using it in any kind of remotely sporty situation. It's just so sloppy. I wouldn't keep it unless you can find the now-discontinued limited slip. They go for big money and are exceedingly rare now. So much so that when I'm done with mine, I'm not even going to bother selling the car whole, the LSD is worth double what the vehicle is. You'd be better off with a transmission that has a much better aftermarket.
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| # ? Jan 7, 2013 16:18 |
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I looked into the pre/88 suspension swap just for curiosity's sake. Apparently it's not that bad for the back, but takes some fab for the front: front: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/...5-2-047764.html http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/076069.html rear: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/120349.html custom: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/117227.html So much effort for a one-year model before they killed it 
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| # ? Jan 7, 2013 16:31 |
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kimbo305 posted:So much effort for a one-year model before they killed it GM's history is littered with this type of thing. There is a prototype 1990 Fiero that shows up at the anniversary bash or whatever that has the 3.4 "Twin Dual Cam" V6 that eventually made its way across the W-body lineup. It also bears more than a passing resemblance to the 1993 Firebird, which suggests they used the styling cues from the Fiero for it. The "base" engine was supposed to be a Quad4, which would have been a huge step up from the Iron Duke. All in all, it would have been a really good sports car, but it probably would have stepped on the Corvette's toes, since the Corvette was still running a relatively anemic 350 (like 230 hp or something?), and we can't have anything competing with the Corvette, now can we?
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| # ? Jan 8, 2013 02:28 |
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I thought the front suspension was from the Chevette and the rear was from the Citation? (...not that Citation suspension is any better...)
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| # ? Jan 8, 2013 04:26 |
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^ This guy knows. Front suspension is Chevette, rear cradle/drivetrain/suspension is from the front of a Citation.
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| # ? Jan 8, 2013 10:42 |
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Noise Complaint posted:I actually have a Cavalier Z24 I bought as a beater that turned out to have that transmission with the rare Quaife LSD installed and the shorter ratio gears from a 2.2 OHV Cavalier. I've heard complaints that installing a LSD in a Fiero makes them more prone to spinning out in corners. At the end of the day, I realize that the transmission is the weak point of the build but I can't really afford to do anything about it. A beefier transmission would cost me about $500 at a minimum. Add mounts to the equation, shift cables, cable brackets, and changing the shifter and it climbs to at least $1000. If I was employed and not living off the GI Bill, it wouldn't be a question but since I'm broke I need to be realistic. Keep in mind that I'm building this swap two feet away from the bumper of a 11 second Buick GN. If I want to go out and smoke some fox bodies, I've got an option. The intent of the Fiero is for a reliable daily driver with a couple extra ponies on tap. With that in mind, I feel good about the Isuzu transmission. kimbo305 posted:I looked into the pre/88 suspension swap just for curiosity's sake. Apparently it's not that bad for the back, but takes some fab for the front: There's also a company called Held Motorsports that sells pretty much everything you need to convert to 88 suspension in kit form. As for me, I'm pleased with how it handles in stock form but then again I've only ever owned G Bodies and vans. Most any car handles better than a G Body. The largest suspension improvements I've done so far are poly cradle bushings and I've built coilovers. It should be an improvement on stock, and good enough for me.
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| # ? Jan 8, 2013 16:14 |
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After we moved the first order of business was finishing the serpantine belts. This is another area that cost me extra, due to the fact that I bought an engine from a Buick and the Grand Prix brackets are needed to fit in the Fiero. Once again, I wish I would have bought a cradle drop out but at least I got it done: The upper right supercharger bracket / coil pack mount is unique to the Grand Prix and had to be pulled from the bone yard. I also needed to pick up a few extra pullies to fix cracks. Here is a bunch of smaller work. I finally mounted the throttle body. In stock form the TB is held on with studs, and for the longest time I couldn't find any. I finally just threw caution to the wind and used some SHCS to hold it on. Also mounted the exhaust manifolds for good and removed the automatic transmission axles from my cradle (I had been keeping them on because they were useful for moving the cradle).  I was waiting on suspension parts in the mail, so I started work on the wiring harness. I wanted to make sure all of my connectors were good:  Grinded out the ball joints and replaced them. Also added poly boots for cheap insurance:  Replaced the outer and inner tie rods, again with poly boots:  Parts delivery! New struts for coilovers, new hub assemblies, and some synchromesh:  New hubs pressed into the knuckles:  Axles installed at last. The wife was pleased to see this, it allowed her to finally understand how this all works together:  That's all for now, I'll add more pictures later.
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| # ? Jan 8, 2013 16:15 |
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camino posted:I've heard complaints that installing a LSD in a Fiero makes them more prone to spinning out in corners. I can see a 2-way LSD in a short wheelbase car taking a lot more throttle control to keep from darting.
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| # ? Jan 9, 2013 10:47 |
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Especially a car like the Fiero which weighs as little as this. Whats the unmodified curb weight of one like this? A quick Wikipedia crawl has yielded no results but I'm awfully jet-lagged and am having a hard time focusing.
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| # ? Jan 9, 2013 14:46 |
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kimbo305 posted:I can see a 2-way LSD in a short wheelbase car taking a lot more throttle control to keep from darting. Sounds right. IIRC it was the Rally Nivas that had to have their wheelbase extended because they would spin out so easily with the extra power. Yes that was a thing for some reason. They normally have a 2200mm wheelbase which is relatively short. So I can see whey a Fiero would get a bit squirelly too.
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| # ? Jan 9, 2013 21:33 |
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SierraEchoBravo posted:Whats the unmodified curb weight of one like this? I cross-shopped the Fiero against the MR2 and FC in my last fit of AIADHD, and iirc, Fieros are 2600-2800lbs depending on trim. Mark Walhberg drives a cherry Formula in that new movie. I'm gonna see it solely because of the car.
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| # ? Jan 9, 2013 22:17 |
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kimbo305 posted:Mark Walhberg drives a cherry Formula in that new movie. I hear it's got some good vibrations. 
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| # ? Jan 9, 2013 22:18 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 09:36 |
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While getting the suspension together, I decided to build some coilovers. With the new poly bushings all around, the coilovers should improve the handling. First step is get a stock Fiero strut and do a little bit of hacking on it. Here you can see I've removed some of the bracket that comes attached: Next the slow and steady process of grinding out the weld:  Here is that strut painted and ready for the coilover pieces:  In the process of grinding out the weld, I accidentally cut into one of the struts I ordered which ruined it. As I'm on a strict budget, I had to wait a while to order another one. Turns out you can't get a warranty replacement when you cut into a strut with an angle grinder. Back to the wiring harness. I connected all of the terminals, and then faked out the wiring in the general direction they were going to run. This was necessary because the new harness differs wildly from the original Grand Prix harness. I removed the EGR and boost bypass, as well as moved the coil packs and didn't use the transmission. All of that had to go:  Started heat shrinking the wires:  All done on the engine side, time to get a crimper that will do Micro Pack 100W terminals so I can shorten up the harness on the PCM side:  Crimped, soldered and terminated, PCM side done and Fiero harness plugs added. This leaves only two cables to run into the interior. Otherwise the swap is plug and play:  The mystery of the fusible link from the intro story turned out to be a bad ground (it's always a bad ground). To save myself the headache, I added a big old honkin' ground strap to the cradle:  I didn't want to mount the PCM inside the car, it seemed like a headache. I started making a bracket to put it where the battery used to go:  Test fit the bracket. This was a big moment, because it was the first time any piece of the 3800 was actually attached to the Fiero:  Changed a bunch of the SC bolts to SHCS, simply because I love stainless socket head cap screws:  This gets us to about November 2012. I've got a few more pictures, but now I'm off to hopefully finish the coilovers. More later.
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| # ? Jan 13, 2013 17:15 |
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