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You really like getting mad at posts.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 15:32 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 19:27 |
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LMD posted:I really don't see what is wrong with the new Dante... I am trying, but just can't find fault. Unlike what E seems to think, you don't have to hate him to post here.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 15:37 |
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Haven't we been through this song and dance before, when we were discussing about how OP the axe was, and your argument was that "They're all imblanced, you weeaboo casuals, b-but you don't care about it in other games  "*?*I'm paraphrasing, of course. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2013 around 15:43 |
| # ? Mar 18, 2013 15:39 |
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Equilibrium posted:I don't know what you mean though that "maneuvering isn't an issue ever", anytime you fight multiple Rages, Cherubs, Harpies, Dreamrunners, or Witches you have to move quite a bit. Like there's a fight with two Dreamrunners and a Witch in Mundus' tower on DMD, good luck standing in one place. Because it isn't? Rages are trivially defeated by dragging them into the air, Cherubs with grabs, and Harpies by shooting them with the shotgun so their wings break and then effortlessly murdering them. Even on DMD they're nonentities. Dreamrunners are actually pretty easily defeated by standing still and baiting out their teleport slash, especially when there are two. Witches require you to dodge their ground attack and otherwise are pathetic. It doesn't feel anything like NG because the enemies (Dreamrunners aside) are not remotely aggressive or powerful enough to force you onto the defensive. The Dreamrunners also have the advantage of not being as vulnerable to the easy repositioning or stunlocking of other enemies although you can still keep them pretty helpless, it's just a greater effort. Dreamrunners are the best enemies in the game (and better than most of the bosses) but they're only really threatening at all when there are two of them. That said the SoS-and-higher two-Dreamrunner fight in the first floor on Mundus Tower is by far the best part of the entire game. It's a wide-open arena and two fast enemies. (IIRC there's a Witch there on DMD but you just murder her and then get back to the fight.) Even then it's not a particularly stressful fight and is utterly trivialized if you actually use Devil Trigger. I should also stress that DmC isn't a terrible game. It's by no means unplayable. Its problem is less that it is bad and more that it is bland and unexceptional. I would take a flawed-but-interesting game over a bland and unexceptional one any day of the week. I wish DmC was a terrible game because then it would be more interesting. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2013 around 16:23 |
| # ? Mar 18, 2013 15:45 |
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God drat you have a huge boner for NG, that game is dogshit.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 15:48 |
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notZaar posted:God drat you have a huge boner for NG, that game is dogshit. Now I'm as mad as that other guy, about this post.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 15:51 |
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notZaar posted:God drat you have a huge boner for NG, that game is dogshit. Let's not say things we can't take back. 
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 16:00 |
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Ninja Gaiden (we're talking about the Xbox one, right?) was weird definitely kinda weird, but dogshit is probably a bit far. I do still have fond memories of killing tanks with tungsten arrows.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 16:18 |
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Equilibrium posted:Again, the whole point of DMC is to be stylish and have fun with it, which is something DmC gives you more than enough potential to do, so maybe put forth some effort. I'm not gonna touch the rest of this post, because you're taking tangents to my argument and the you start on tangents to those tangents and it's super dumb and a waste to even try and follow you, but the video you posted is hilariously terrible. That super sweet cool opening move was "Axe Launcher, Shuriken, Enemy Step" so stylish and amazing!!!
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 16:30 |
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Why is old Dante ~*ANIME*~ and therefore really bad and only liked by weaboo scrub casuals but Ninja Gaiden is totally not anime and perfectly fine?
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 17:00 |
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Capitalism Bro! posted:Why is old Dante ~*ANIME*~ and therefore really bad and only liked by weaboo scrub casuals but Ninja Gaiden is totally not anime and perfectly fine? Yo our homeboy RYU HAYABUSA feels hella bad about stabbing all those guys in Ninja Gaiden 3, 2012 commercial success, in a riveting and mature storyline dripping with visceral action vvv: yeah, kinda mean-spirited and unfair since no-one wants to bring up DMC2 but I thought it was funny 
toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2013 around 17:17 |
| # ? Mar 18, 2013 17:08 |
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To be fair only Ninja Gaiden Black and 2 exist, the rest are urban legends.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 17:09 |
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I thought Razor's Edge for the Wii U was pretty good if you skipped all the horrifying little daughter moments and ignored the loving awful final boss. At the very least, it got assloads of free content that the original lacked.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 17:20 |
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ImpAtom posted:Dreamrunners are the best enemies in the game (and better than most of the bosses) but they're only really threatening at all when there are two of them. That said the SoS-and-higher two-Dreamrunner fight in the first floor on Mundus Tower is by far the best part of the entire game. It's a wide-open arena and two fast enemies. (IIRC there's a Witch there on DMD but you just murder her and then get back to the fight.) Even then it's not a particularly stressful fight and is utterly trivialized if you actually use Devil Trigger. I said exactly this to the combat designer. I was like - "Oh wow, that was REALLY REALLY FUN!" - I replayed the fight lots of times to get a strategy completely down (dreamrunners have lots of cool little things - like if you shoot them with e&i they spin their swords and that lets you devil grab them). Dreamrunners are also the enemy they spent the most time on, which I think is a positive thing - it means with more resources spent on enemy design the enemies would have been sweeter. However, DMC has always been a series that was very hit and miss with enemy designs. Replaying DMC3 has so many "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING" moments with enemies - like the fallen angels who clip into the floor, bloodgoyles, dullahans, the lost souls... The real problem with enemy design in new DmC is simply the coloured stuff. In fights where you don't have coloured stuff most of the enemies are ok (although not a huge fan of the buzzsaw tanks or tyrants because they are kind of limited unless you launch them).
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 17:48 |
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SurrealityCheck posted:Dreamrunners are also the enemy they spent the most time on, which I think is a positive thing - it means with more resources spent on enemy design the enemies would have been sweeter. That makes sense. I suspect part of it is that Dreamrunner and Vergil clearly have a bit of design overlap, so the Dreamrunners end up feeling more like a boss because they have a lot in common with one of the bosses, while their status as regular enemies lets them show up in situations a boss wouldn't. (i.e: With other enemies.) It is a positive thing, I think. They really feel different from the other fights in the game and mostly for the good. If more enemies in the game were like the Dreamrunners it would be overall to the game's benefit.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 18:00 |
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They were meant to be a bit like Grace and Glory. Which explains why they have things like an aerial counter!
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 18:15 |
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Equilibrium posted:MGR, which is essentially fisher price NG Opinions can't be wrong, but they can be stupid.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 18:20 |
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That loving Sned posted:Opinions can't be wrong, but they can be stupid. So far, the only thing I can actually understand from Equilibrium's massive rambling rants is that he really really really likes Ninja Gaiden and really really dislikes DMC. Hell, a lot of his "THESE CHANGES ARE BETTER" points about DmC have been followed by "...just like in NG". Then something about how NG is a hard game and no DMC game is as hard as it therefore none of them are hard, I think? I don't know, it's like reading a Kyoon post about video game design.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 18:26 |
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Capitalism Bro! posted:Why is old Dante ~*ANIME*~ and therefore really bad and only liked by weaboo scrub casuals but Ninja Gaiden is totally not anime and perfectly fine? I thought it was kinda weird that people get mad that old dante is  yet this game game has your hair turning white be the big superpower straight outta DBZ.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 18:48 |
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ImpAtom posted:Because it isn't? Rages are trivially defeated by dragging them into the air, Cherubs with grabs, and Harpies by shooting them with the shotgun so their wings break and then effortlessly murdering them. Even on DMD they're nonentities. Dreamrunners are actually pretty easily defeated by standing still and baiting out their teleport slash, especially when there are two. Witches require you to dodge their ground attack and otherwise are pathetic. It doesn't feel anything like NG because the enemies (Dreamrunners aside) are not remotely aggressive or powerful enough to force you onto the defensive. The Dreamrunners also have the advantage of not being as vulnerable to the easy repositioning or stunlocking of other enemies although you can still keep them pretty helpless, it's just a greater effort. You post about enemy designs like they exist in isolation and that's dumb and basically never true on DMD. You don't use the axe on harpies because they usually come in packs of 5 or something and committing yourself to Trinity Smash's several hundred uncancelable recovery frames is stupid - why don't you JC eryx which is faster and safer if you're going to minmax like this to begin with? People overrate the axe so much in this thread it's ridiculous. Then you mischaracterize the tower fight. Again, the point isn't that it's Hard, but that these enemies require you to move around, a thing the guy you're defending tried to argue somehow isn't necessary in this game. You make it sound like eliminating the Witch to start is trivial and you don't have to worry about the Dreamrunners and whatever you call their version of a rapid slash. You have all of 3 seconds of DT at this point so yeah you could maybe off the Witch to start, but then it's still a double Dreamrunner fight and that's fun enough, but why waste the meter. Finally, the game doesn't feel like NG of course because DMC is a game about relentless offense, I mean that the mechanics of literally moving around the game space feel remarkably similar to NG's. Contrast evade rolling with... 'Speed'. ZenMasterBullshit posted:I'm not gonna touch the rest of this post, because you're taking tangents to my argument and the you start on tangents to those tangents and it's super dumb and a waste to even try and follow you, but the video you posted is hilariously terrible. That super sweet cool opening move was "Axe Launcher, Shuriken, Enemy Step" so stylish and amazing!!! I presume you took the time to omit the link from your quote so that other people would have a harder time verifying how dumb you look. It is remarkable what cognitive dissonance will do to color a weirdly angry person's perception of reality. I mean, you are the same possible mongoloid who asked this thread the question, "is there loving any reason to use the Scythe?" so you will have to forgive me if I don't think you're any good at video games or in any position to judge what is impressive gameplay. From what I can tell your attention span lasts all of five seconds so you will probably never read this sentence, but given that you have also at one point said "I never HAD to swap up combos, so why would I?" I can't help but think you really really don't get Devil May Cry. Same goes for the guy who thinks I hate DMC3/4 (I don't!?) and anime (I shamefully don't!?) because I said a thing he doesn't agree with.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 20:38 |
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Edit: Honestly, it's not worth keeping this going.
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2013 around 21:21 |
| # ? Mar 18, 2013 20:49 |
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I actually really like the angel dodge. I think it's a cool mechanic. I don't like demon dodge though, because a damage boost is a bit vanilla. If it was part of some non-parry counter system that would be cool.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 20:51 |
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SurrealityCheck posted:I actually really like the angel dodge. I think it's a cool mechanic. I don't like demon dodge though, because a damage boost is a bit vanilla. If it was part of some non-parry counter system that would be cool. Angel dodge kinda suffers from being a good move without a real place to use it. The default dodge already is extremely good and none of the enemies really ask for more, while a massive damage boost is almost universally going to be a better choice. I mean it's not a bad move but it's just overshadowed.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 20:59 |
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The fact that this argument is still going, on both sides, is dumb. Equilibrium, you should take a break too. Almost all of your posts are just throwing insults; that's a sign that you need to chill a bit. Also, dude, not every player is terrible! I'm not really good at these games either, but I managed to beat DMD just fine. The hardest part of the game was beating Vergil on Hell or Hell. I did enjoy my Nephilim run though, I found SoS really draining, but DMD wasn't that bad either. Despite that, but I honestly do still feel it's kinda mediocre. And I do enjoy Rising more. I can probably still also guarantee you could dig up some terrible posts I've made in this thread too. Shades of gray, man. At the moment, the general consensus is more or less that the game's alright, and Vergil's Downfall is an improvement, yeah? It's not all that bad. I rented the game though, so I can't try Vergil's Downfall yet. I'm tempting picking it up now, but since I 100% the vanilla version, I'm thinking of waiting until the price falls some more. How about we quit the derail and discuss Vergil's Downfall some more, since that kind of got interrupted. I'm genuinely interested in hearing more about what different players found they could do in the game.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 21:19 |
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CrashScreen posted:I rented the game though, so I can't try Vergil's Downfall yet. I'm tempting picking it up now, but since I 100% the vanilla version, I'm thinking of waiting until the price falls some more. How about we quit the derail and discuss Vergil's Downfall some more, since that kind of got interrupted. I'm genuinely interested in hearing more about what different players found they could do in the game. If you have even a slightly average PC you should be able to get the PC version running, and it'll certainly be cheap next Steam sale.
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 21:22 |
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Once you get used to using angel dodge to move in and out it is super handy versus monsters like the buzzsaw tank, because you can literally juke in and out around his swings. Check it out!
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| # ? Mar 18, 2013 21:23 |
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Equilibrium posted:
God you are adorable. 'Mongoloid' really? Do you even know what that means? God it's like I'm reading 4chan again  .First I excluded the link because I just copy pasted what you said because I accidentally deleted your posts text and just didn't think to go back and quote the whole thing because I'm horribly lazy. Second, I love the fact that you decided to run through my whole post history to find something to argue on. Congrats, it's you. You are the gooniest goon who ever gooned. Also, the other DMC's (3/4 especially) kind of do make you/encourage you to swap up weapons/combos. That's what the whole Style meter thing is about in those games. In fact, I clarified that in the post that you're trying to hell dump from. Maybe not act like a screaming idiot before posting next time? PS. My post about the scythe was me basically saying the Scythe is complete poo poo and anything it can do is better done by the Shuriken (Quick Angel Weapon with a much better move pool and gimmick) and Demon Dodge (Parrying). It's not even the best thing to keep enemies in the air. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2013 around 22:24 |
| # ? Mar 18, 2013 21:35 |
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ImpAtom posted:Angel dodge kinda suffers from being a good move without a real place to use it. The default dodge already is extremely good and none of the enemies really ask for more, while a massive damage boost is almost universally going to be a better choice. I mean it's not a bad move but it's just overshadowed. Angel dodge isn't a trade-off or a choice. You can trigger demon dodge and switch modifiers midway through to complete the angel dodge, it's even pretty easy to do with the bullet time. It's also the fastest way to travel; the idea that people aren't angel dodging everywhere constantly is kind of hilarious to me. ZenMasterBullshit posted:PS. My post about the scythe was me basically saying the Scythe is complete poo poo and anything it can do is better done by the Shuriken (Quick Angel Weapon with a much better move pool and gimmick) and Demon Dodge (Parrying). It's not even the best thing to keep enemies in the air. Well aside from admitting to being a 4chan reader/poster at some point in your illustrious career, thanks for at least reaffirming how bad and unimaginative you are at video games I guess? Also what the hell, were you even around when Helldump was a thing. Here, I'll break this down for anyone not already ensconced in your your magical reality warping cognitive dissonance: Prop has virtually no recovery frames and MGR status active frames for parrying, a held Shredder does ridiculous damage, again with no recovery frames. The third hit of Cleaver is much safer and quicker to combo into than the third hit of Rebellion's Death Coil. The Scythe and the Aquila have almost no overlap in function. The Scythe launches things. It has an aerial launcher, a charged aerial launcher with a massive AoE, an AoE aerial launcher in-the-air that sets up things like charged Eryx showdowns and further suspending heavy enemies like Butchers in a way that the Aquila cannot. Finally, it has Rake, which if you spend more than 10 seconds watching the video I linked you will see the immediate power of - it's easily the best move the weapon has. Aquila uh, stuns things. There's no overlap between Aquila Buy In and the Scythe or any other weapon for that matter- you don't substitute Death Coil for Buy In the way you do Cleaver. It has a pretty cool stinger. Tornado is a fun skill that leaves you somewhat vulnerable and on the ground. These two weapons don't have much of anything in common beyond 'low recovery' and kind of good at doing AoE things in very different ways. And it doesn't make sense to suggest that parrying is pointless when you can Demon Dodge. You might already have the buff, or are fighting a triggered Rage/anything, a Witch, a Butcher, any boss, or just want to look cool, but the point of doing things for their own sake would seem to be completely lost on you.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 01:15 |
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SurrealityCheck posted:I actually really like the angel dodge. I think it's a cool mechanic. I don't like demon dodge though, because a damage boost is a bit vanilla. If it was part of some non-parry counter system that would be cool. If the style counter wasn't based on damage, the angel dodge might actually have a place in the game. This wouldn't keep the standard dodge from being totally worthless, though... I actually don't mind what Ninja Theory were going for with DmC's design, I kinda like its ideas of having standard/angel/demon modes - at the end of it all I thought that DmC was a pret-ty bad game, but I'd be willing to give them another shot as long as they cleaned up the combat design and controls a little. Oh and the writing too.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 01:30 |
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So I was screwing around and it turns out there are just frame versions of Raze, Drive, Roundtrip, and Richochet similar to Vergil that the tooltips never bother to mention. Eryx and Revenant don't seem to have one. Beyond the obvious 'does more damage', the only special property I've noticed is that JF Raze will launch Butchers, where it'd normally need at least one level of thirst built up to do so.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 02:21 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 19:27 |
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I've been reading this last few pages and wow, this thread needs to die. When I made the thread, I can't say I didn't expect this, but god dammit, there has to be a limit to how lovely things can get and I think we've finally reached it. The new DMC whether it's good or bad has only brought about stupid arguments that are either repeated constantly, have awful defenders or equally pedantic attackers and I'm ending it here. Good night, sweet Dante and let your pizza not get ruined by some rear end in a top hat demons. Seriously though, this has been awful.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2013 04:07 |
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